955 replies to this topic

[Believer]

I once bought what was billed as a highly pure specific compound from a reputable-looking Chinese supplier.

 

I had it analyzed and it was a banned anabolic steroid, not what I had asked for at all. It would have been very dangerous if used as if it were the compound they claimed it was.

 

It was fairly pure, however.

 

They were probably trying to get rid of it and didn't care who got hurt as long as they made some money.

I've likewise experienced too many dangerous scams from Chinese companies. They can and literally do put whatever they want and claim it's the product you requested.

 

What steroid was it? I tried to buy DHT but got something anabolic causing weird clumsinss.

 

[smithx]

I've likewise experienced too many dangerous scams from Chinese companies. They can and literally do put whatever they want and claim it's the product you requested.

 

What steroid was it? I tried to buy DHT but got something anabolic causing weird clumsinss.

 

The compound turned out to be 5α-androst-1-ene-3,17-dione. I was not trying to purchase any such compound.

[AlbertN]

I have a question about dosage.

 

For a 200 pound human male,  people are suggesting 5-6 mg once a week.  However in the Kaeberlein dog trials, a 60 pound dog would be given 3 mg three times a week which obviously works out to 9mg per week.  Two questions.

 

1) Why are the dog trials using 3 times per week delivery while most humans only do once per week?

 

2) Why does a 60 pound dog get 9 mg per week while a 200 pound human gets only 6 mg per week?  Are people more aggressive with dog dosages or are their metabolisms that much faster?

[Guest]

I have a question about dosage.

 

For a 200 pound human male,  people are suggesting 5-6 mg once a week.  However in the Kaeberlein dog trials, a 60 pound dog would be given 3 mg three times a week which obviously works out to 9mg per week.  Two questions.

 

1) Why are the dog trials using 3 times per week delivery while most humans only do once per week?

 

2) Why does a 60 pound dog get 9 mg per week while a 200 pound human gets only 6 mg per week?  Are people more aggressive with dog dosages or are their metabolisms that much faster?

 

Well - differences in scaling are generally done so as to consider differences in metabolism. Therefore it's not a 1:1 by weight.

 

However, the dogs are still getting a much larger effective dose than humans are taking for life-extension (that would be 20 mg to 30 mg per week for humans).

 

 

That's crazy! Why aren't they using a dose equivalent to the life-extension protocol established by Peter Attia and Alan Green? The 3 to maximum 10 mg per week?

 

Unbelievable, how much more the animals are getting in all those studies than any human is taking for life extension!

[PAMPAGUY]

I have a question about dosage.

 

For a 200 pound human male,  people are suggesting 5-6 mg once a week.  However in the Kaeberlein dog trials, a 60 pound dog would be given 3 mg three times a week which obviously works out to 9mg per week.  Two questions.

 

1) Why are the dog trials using 3 times per week delivery while most humans only do once per week?

 

2) Why does a 60 pound dog get 9 mg per week while a 200 pound human gets only 6 mg per week?  Are people more aggressive with dog dosages or are their metabolisms that much faster?

Human dosing of rapa is determined on everything, but weight.  Ever person is different.  That is why you follow the correct protocol to determine dosing.  Example:  Start at 5 mg. week, increase 1 mg every week until you get a side effect.  Usually mouth or tongue sores.  Back off 1 mg. and that is your ideal dose.  Max longevity without side effects.  Do not try and compare human and animals.  Never works.  https://www.ncbi.nlm...es/PMC6814615/       page 4

[Guest]

I agree with that.

 

 

Humans are not animals - we are different than flies, mice, dogs or the marmoset monkeys they are currently studying. So you should not look at the much higher doses they are getting.

 

 

5 mg to 10 mg max. per week is more than enough to replicate the effects seen in animals.

[AlbertN]

Human dosing of rapa is determined on everything, but weight.  Ever person is different.  That is why you follow the correct protocol to determine dosing.  Example:  Start at 5 mg. week, increase 1 mg every week until you get a side effect.  Usually mouth or tongue sores.  Back off 1 mg. and that is your ideal dose.  Max longevity without side effects.  Do not try and compare human and animals.  Never works.  https://www.ncbi.nlm...es/PMC6814615/       page 4

 

 

Thanks very much for the link.  Do you have any idea why humans dose only once a week and in the dog studies they dose 3 times a week?

[smithx]

Thanks very much for the link.  Do you have any idea why humans dose only once a week and in the dog studies they dose 3 times a week?

 

This is why, at least in my case:

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/26463117/

[PAMPAGUY]

This is why, at least in my case:

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/26463117/

In the Mannick trial, they dosed elderly people at .5 mg per day without meaningful side effects.  So you could do it that way, even increasing the dose until side effects appear.  It's always about clearing the rapa from system before next dose to keep Tor 2 under control.  Also convenience, once a week is very manageable for most people.  The dogs metabolism is much faster than humans.  Same with murine, and primate models.  If you did a blood test on them to measure the inhibition, there would be very low if any rapa left in system at 1 week intervals.  In Mannick, they measured the amount of inhibition in certain dosing schedules in the subjects.  Probably expensive, but can be done with correct lab equipment and reagents. 

[Ihlberg]

Doing some research on Rapamycin on behalf of my elderly father.

Anyone from EU that know of cases where a doctor has prescribed this drug for longevity and disease prevention purposes.

I doubt that I will find a doctor in Sweden that would do that, but since we are members of EU maybe I can find one within the union.

 

[AlbertN]

Thanks very much for the link.  Do you have any idea why humans dose only once a week and in the dog studies they dose 3 times a week?

 

I think I have at least a partial answer to my question that I'm posting for the benefit of others.  

 

If you watch the video below starting at about 8:30,  you find that Matt Kaeberlein, who does the dog trials, is unsure of whether the effect on mTOR2 is necessarily a negative consequence for metabolic regulation, and cites a study where it actually helped mitochondrial disfunction in mice.

 

 

Since the once a week dosing is primarily so that you don't inhibit mTOR2 too much (while keeping the effects on mTOR1),  this is probably why they do 3 times a week dosing.  Further,  from various dosing conversion charts on the web I have found that 6mg for a 100kg person is about the same as 3mg for a 70kg dog.   To convert  Human dose (mg/kg) to dog dose (mg/kg) - multiply by 1.8.    So the dose size is in line with what people are suggesting here.  It's just that Kaeberlein likes to give it more frequently. 

[PAMPAGUY]

BIRTHPLACE OF RAPAMYCIN

Attached Files

•  Milky Way over Moai Head, Easter Island,.jpg   120.67KB   1 downloads

[Chris Pollyanna]

For those of you interested in Rapamycin - a human clinical trial crowdfunding campaign has just launched. This is great news, as it may finally answer a lot of the questions we have about it: what are the longevity biomarker effects in humans? Do the human results reflect the results in animals? What is the best dosing strategy? (they are trying four different regimens)

 

I've donated $100 - if you have any money you can possibly spare then please donate! A $25 donation gives you access to the trial data as it comes in, so you don't need to wait for the eventual publication.

 

PEARL: PARTICIPATORY EVALUATION OF AGING WITH RAPAMYCIN FOR LONGEVITY

 

https://www.lifespan...-for-longevity/

[smithx]

I know that mouth sores are often reported with rapamycin but has anyone here taking rapamycin experienced tongue soreness / swelling? The last two cycles (I have been taking 8mg every 10 days) I've had quite painful tongue soreness and swelling, and am not sure if it's associated with the rapamycin or not.

 

One way to find out is to discontinue it for a few weeks, but curious if anyone else has experienced this or if it's been reported elsewhere.

[judge]

No, I just get a little brain fog and a bit lethargic for about 12 hours, then I am fine.  But it is not bad, I function just fine.  I do get super sensitive to carbohydrates, my blood sugar shoots up fast.  I control it with cinnamon and berberine and curcumin.  And of course limiting carbs works good too   lol  :D           I just take 5mg every 7-10 days

[PAMPAGUY]

I know that mouth sores are often reported with rapamycin but has anyone here taking rapamycin experienced tongue soreness / swelling? The last two cycles (I have been taking 8mg every 10 days) I've had quite painful tongue soreness and swelling, and am not sure if it's associated with the rapamycin or not.

 

One way to find out is to discontinue it for a few weeks, but curious if anyone else has experienced this or if it's been reported elsewhere.

All these are classic rapa side effects.  Been taking for 4 years, sores on tongue, inner cheek, and lips.  Goes away fairly quickly.  Tells you that you're invading Tor 2 territory.  Skip 10 days, then take 1 mg. less and see what happens.  Has always worked for me.  You want to be right on edge in order to get max longevity benefit.

[stockcarman]

Is it safe to take rapamycin on a continuous bases ( once a week ) with out a time off period ? If not how long would the time off period between doses be ?

Edited by stockcarman, 29 June 2021 - 04:10 PM.

[whileitravel]

Are people dying from rapamycin? I say this in jest of course, but I just haven't seen much activity here in quite a while. What gives?

[tintinet]

Are people dying from rapamycin? I say this in jest of course, but I just haven't seen much activity here in quite a while. What gives?

 

It's just become routine, I expect.

[PAMPAGUY]

I follow Doctor Blagosklonny on Twitter.  He is always on the best and greatest discoveries.  Same protocol for me.

[whileitravel]

I follow Doctor Blagosklonny on Twitter.  He is always on the best and greatest discoveries.  Same protocol for me.

 

I do too, but I still think it's nice to hear other people's experience.

[AlbertN]

For those who have gotten side effects from Rapamycin (I'm principally thinking about diarrhea and mouth sores) how long after you take it do you experience the side effects?

I'm principally asking because I also give rapamycin to my elderly dogs.  I was giving it to them once a week, but I increased the frequency to once every 5 days.

I gave it to them on Monday and one of them got horrible diarrhea Thursday night through Saturday.  Could Rapamycin have been the cause?

[stockcarman]

Would a couple drops DMSO added to ethenol help rapamycin get in to the blood stream ?

[judge]

Would a couple drops DMSO added to ethenol help rapamycin get in to the blood stream ?

 

That is a bit drastic, you have any bio chemistry experience?

[stockcarman]

No just thought a couple drops would help to get it absorbed in to the blood stream .

[FrankT.Hippo]

Are people dying from rapamycin? I say this in jest of course, but I just haven't seen much activity here in quite a while. What gives?

 

You never know, so it is good to ask.

 

I have been following this thread for several years and have been taking rapamycin too.

 

I have a clinically diagnosed mitochondrial defect -- seemingly due to a PINK1 and OPA1 mutation -- which is disabling.

 

Sirolimus was a miracle drug for about 3 years -- i was super productive with my behavioral genetics research -- but the efficacy dissipated.

 

It is really hard to modify these conditions; nothing has panned out and my Harvard trained biomedical geneticist was somewhat black-pilled last I talked to her. So, I have realistic expectations. And in light of those, rapamycin was a stellar success.

 

I tried Everolimus but as predicted by those on this forum that did nothing.

 

I still take Sirolimus on and off but is has less potency -- maybe the condition has just advanced  --- so I have moved on to trying other drugs including Semax, dihexa, and similar peptides to upregulate BDNF.

 

I am now procuring an order of SKQ1 a newly developed mitochondrial targeted anti-oxidant -- since I had good experiences with MitoQ and CoQ10. And I am also experimenting with intravenous glutathione. 

 

Anyways, I have a bunch of colleagues who take it, though for longevity purposes. 

 

These are accomplished people.

 

Unfortunately, I have not found someone in my same boat with whom I could compare notes. They usually just try to cope with their condition, use conventional medicine, and fade away. 

 

But, I agree, that it would be nice to get periodic updates from others. 

Edited by FrankT.Hippo, 14 December 2021 - 04:13 AM.

[FrankT.Hippo]

You never know, so it is good to ask.

 

I have been following this thread for several years and have been taking rapamycin too.

 

I have a clinically diagnosed mitochondrial defect -- seemingly due to a PINK1 and OPA1 mutation -- which is disabling.

 

Sirolimus was a miracle drug for about 3 years -- i was super productive with my behavioral genetics research -- but the efficacy dissipated.

 

It is really hard to modify these conditions; nothing has panned out and my Harvard trained biomedical geneticist was somewhat black-pilled last I talked to her. So, I have realistic expectations. And in light of those, rapamycin was a stellar success.

 

I tried Everolimus but as predicted by those on this forum that did nothing.

 

I still take Sirolimus on and off but is has less potency -- maybe the condition has just advanced  --- so I have moved on to trying other drugs including Semax, dihexa, and similar peptides to upregulate BDNF.

 

I am now procuring an order of SKQ1 a newly developed mitochondrial targeted anti-oxidant -- since I had good experiences with MitoQ and CoQ10. And I am also experimenting with intravenous glutathione. 

 

Anyways, I have a bunch of colleagues who take it, though for longevity purposes. 

 

These are accomplished people.

 

Unfortunately, I have not found someone in my same boat with whom I could compare notes. They usually just try to cope with their condition, use conventional medicine, and fade away. 

 

But, I agree, that it would be nice to get periodic updates from others. 

 

So, yes, the reason I don't comment more is that I have incorporated rapa into my stack and have moved to new experimental drugs.

 

[judge]

You never know, so it is good to ask.

 

I have been following this thread for several years and have been taking rapamycin too.

 

I have a clinically diagnosed mitochondrial defect -- seemingly due to a PINK1 and OPA1 mutation -- which is disabling.

 

Sirolimus was a miracle drug for about 3 years -- i was super productive with my behavioral genetics research -- but the efficacy dissipated.

 

It is really hard to modify these conditions; nothing has panned out and my Harvard trained biomedical geneticist was somewhat black-pilled last I talked to her. So, I have realistic expectations. And in light of those, rapamycin was a stellar success.

 

I tried Everolimus but as predicted by those on this forum that did nothing.

 

I still take Sirolimus on and off but is has less potency -- maybe the condition has just advanced  --- so I have moved on to trying other drugs including Semax, dihexa, and similar peptides to upregulate BDNF.

 

I am now procuring an order of SKQ1 a newly developed mitochondrial targeted anti-oxidant -- since I had good experiences with MitoQ and CoQ10. And I am also experimenting with intravenous glutathione. 

 

Anyways, I have a bunch of colleagues who take it, though for longevity purposes. 

 

These are accomplished people.

 

Unfortunately, I have not found someone in my same boat with whom I could compare notes. They usually just try to cope with their condition, use conventional medicine, and fade away. 

 

But, I agree, that it would be nice to get periodic updates from others. 

have you tried methylene blue?  i doubt it cures you but it should give you a boost, pretty darn safe too    i love the stuff!   G/L !

[FrankT.Hippo]

have you tried methylene blue?  i doubt it cures you but it should give you a boost, pretty darn safe too    i love the stuff!   G/L !

 

No, never heard of it.  Could you provide a few more details? e.g.,

 

1. A good informational site.

2. Place to order

3. Best way to take.

4. Dosing details for max anti-oxidant effect.

 

Thanks upfront.

 

Yes, I am not looking for a cure. Just a boost here and there.

[FrankT.Hippo]

So, yes, the reason I don't comment more is that I have incorporated rapa into my stack and have moved to new experimental drugs.

 

 

I don't know that this will help you all -- who seem pretty healthy -- but I have been shilling rapa to my mito experts for years & and some case studies are finally being done. It seems to work as predicted (e.g., clearing out defective mitochondria).  I take rapa and then a week later take a PGC-1α and SIRT1 activator to upregulate mito biogenesis on the remaining healthier organelles.
 

"Maintaining mitochondrial function and dynamics is crucial for cellular health. In muscle, defects in mitochondria result in severe myopathies where accumulation of damaged mitochondria causes deterioration and dysfunction. Importantly, understanding the role of mitochondria in disease is a necessity to determine future therapeutics. One of the most common myopathies is mitochondrial encephalopathy lactic acidosis stroke-like episodes (MELAS), which has no current treatment. Recently, patients with MELAS treated with rapamycin exhibited improved clinical outcomes... Treatment of MELAS fibroblasts with rapamycin for 24 h resulted in increased mitochondrial respiration compared with control cells, a higher lysosome content, and a greater localization of mitochondria to lysosomes. Our studies suggest that rapamycin has the potential to improve cellular health even in the presence of mtDNA defects, primarily via an increase in lysosomal content."

https://journals.phy...cell.00471.2020

Edited by FrankT.Hippo, 14 December 2021 - 02:58 PM.