20 replies to this topic

[foff1335]

Hey People.... I would like to say something about my condition.
I first taked piracetam original Nootropil prescription version, 2x1200mg for 9 month.
Its have been an incredible aid for memory&verbal fluency changed my life both positive&negative.
After 2 months it loose it effects but the verbal fluency stayed with me and before piracetam i was always stuttering, so now I did stutter always too..speech problems... I was motivated by limitless movie i know theres no drug to imitate that...I was gone manic, doing other nootropics but mainly piracetam. First, it was like a miracle for me. I have severe endocrine problems and 3 months after piracetam use dysregulated my HPA axis, now I leaved piracetam because i have chronic fatigue. I have hypothyroid, hypopituitary problems, growth hormone deficiency-testosterone deficiency since my birth. Then 3-4 months use of piracetam endocrine blood test showed low cortisol i need to take hydrocortisone to it but it didn't fix anything. People with endocrine disorders please don't take that drug or any racetam.
Currently i take moclobemide a RIMA (Reversible MAOI-A) and tianeptine I am trying to fix HPA axis dysregulation but it needs 2-3 months.I had chronic fatigue before but now caffeine and nothing works nothing stimulates me. I think cortisol is not my full problem I take 10mg hydrocortisone by morning and it does nothing with my fatigue. Potassium levels was also low.

Now I don't take piracetam and my IQ is decreased like 20-30 points I do stuttering and oftenly swap the worlds, incorrect writing, incoherent speech. Once I was combining 4-5 nootropics and did extreme improvement not only in cognitive enhancement but in . I did take nicergoline, memantine, donepezil(acutely) for 2-3 months maybe but the cortisol problem was before. Now I have severe chronic fatigue my lumosity scores are far from when I did take the nootropics but my physical performance was good my work performance increased with 100-50%. I needed to stop memantine because memory blackouts and the problem didn't go away fully I taked Iron pills in form Ferrous-III-hydroxide-polimaltose complex/0.35mg folic acid and the memory blackouts(i head a head injury in the past 3-4 month) and the other iron deficiency signs like hairbreadth loss are gone. I recomend everyone who have chronic fatigue and/or endocrine problems please don't try piracetam or only for 1-2 months. I had the chronic fatigue before, piracetam was acting like an energy drink for me, caused hypomania, and i did seen the perception improvement, now I don't get anything from piracetam.

Insted of it i recommend moclobemide+tianeptine combo, it is safe to combine because tia is an SSRE not SSRI.
For one week i was so tired like a dead body and couldn't go out from bed only tianeptine helped with my chronic fatigue.

Links for studies.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/7845541 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11297592

moclobemide learning+memory
 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14735229
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10817527
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9689417
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2677245

ADHD: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1546129
 

You see in studies piracetam affects mineralocorticoid receptors aldosterone...moclo fixes aldosterone receptors upregulates it in 2 weeks with 300mg dose and reducing adrenal weight. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2149831

So people, don't do stupid things don't take piracetam with endocrine problems and chronic fatigue.

[jack black]

RE: You see in studies piracetam affects mineralocorticoid receptors aldosterone...

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2149831

 

My read of that study it's actually the other way around.

[foff1335]

I tried to take Piracetam again! I did, and i was feeled myself super-weak...3-4X times cycled it on and off i believe racetams have some impact on the adrenals...
I tried it off and on again, something was cured my memory blackouts but i don't know what. I did tried alpha gpc too when i did take it with piracetam maybe thats cured my memory problems. You don't gonna believe me but i had the same problems before i started it i forgotted everything. I taked too much stuff in my stack so i don't know what is curing my memory loss...

 

Somebody pls help. Now I take selegiline along with vinpocetine and I did tried selegiline before but it made me terribly sleepy and tired, in the combination of vinpocetine cancels it out? i don't know so i dropped the vinpocetine to see selegiline will have the same effect I take 5mg orally because my terrible memory. I take iron pills plus multivitamin and vit C with piperine(black pepper to increase absorption) I feel myself soo better since i dropped the piracetam but my memory is bad

[jack black]

here is my theory: piracetam depleted your ACh and put you in mania/hypomania. maybe you have bipolar susceptibility. at the same time you didn't take enough neuroprotectans, antioxidants, and antiglutamatenergic substances (and maybe took some neurotoxins too) and you burned out quite a few neurons by excessive stress hormones, oxidative injury (piracetam can do it in high doses), and excitotoxicity. 

 

now, you just need get rest, sleep, meditation, adaptogens, no neurotoxins, no stress, heal your adrenals, and your brain should fix itself. obsessing about it won't help. I don't know if NSI-189 could help you, read those threads on NSI-189.

 

BTW, it's hard to read your posts, so maybe i missed some important details.

Edited by jack black, 24 September 2016 - 06:55 PM.

[MartinSz]

What is the legal status of Moclobemide in the USA? Can I buy this online without worrying about anything?

[Saffron]

Oh hi Original Poster, if i may please add something to this aging thread ---

 

What you said is something i have pointed out many many years ago on another forum. that nootropic for some people is actually to inhibit AMPA & AcetylCholine a little bit and to secondly go the Antidepressant route because their cognitive problems dont stem from what Racetams work with. Your post is VERY understandable and you are quite correct when you say Moclob & Tian are far more nootropic than any nootropic is.

 

Also, im going to sneak this point in because its related in quite an analogous way !! , Im One of the top 5 people in the world with the deepest understanding and support of David Pearce Work and Abolitionist Bioethics, and i fail to understand how everyone can advocate Higher IQ and HIgh lifespan over and over without talking about higher well-being setpoint state -- its bizarre to me. It looks like its very awkward and uncomfortable to everyone; or lack of interest, or both.

 

I just dont get it. But you see how i had a lead into this related-on-topic-tangent? cuz you went away from nootropics and took wellbeing increasers, and im referring to how everyone is crazy aqbout IQ higher but not wellbeing increase -- neat Microcosm to Macrocosm match up huh?

 

Everyone is so weriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiid .. they wont have a stuborn disposition about the increase of wellbeing -- i mean its like a hundred to one ratio or something, Lifespan+ IQ to WellBeing Level, 100:1 or whatever it is and im throwing out a random number to make an expressive point

 

But woooww Everyone must have like Hypomania combined with Hypoeuphoria or something. Or be less sentient than me. I dont know -- the lack of motive toward David Pearce style stuff is just bizarre., a huge WTF .. ppl advocating to live for ever but then not being Hedonistic Imperative Abolitionist Supports as a primary thing... what!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

Anyway -- OP, you can try Agmatine and see if that gets ur Tian dose down by 20% or so. and You are awesome for posting this !!!!!!!!!!!!! Racetams and Cholinergics are garbage, Tian and Moclob is liek the most nootropic combo ever. 

Edited by Saffron, 10 November 2016 - 04:20 AM.

[Saffron]

Hey OP -- its true that only Tian helps with fatigue and dysphoria with some people

 

The Government and The Medical Policy Setting people are ignorant, and dark & evil sociopaths, cuz they discount entire brain pathways from being treated for dysfunction, and ban ENTIRE BRAIN PATHWAYS by banning all the meds that work on those particular pathways;  Theres no deterrant from them doing this because there seems to be no such thing as fast karma, let alone karma in general

 

if there was fast karma, they would suffer torture and suffering, then sociopathic dark & evil people would come say to them "You cannot have the medicine that helps you, take this unrelated medicine instead"  and make that the way things are

 

U see the problem with Authoritarianism destroying Health Freedom is that the Authoritarians are too ignorant and all options must always be left open , because Authoritarian evil ends up creating situations where everything that helps a person with a torture is something that is banned by dark & evil Authoritarian Collectivists. No one else will say things like this due to being weak-minded on particular issues like this, and everyone has been programmed to use Ultra-Weak Wording to Understate things -- they talk about things like this as if it is a chronic traffic jam problem, or their meal in the oven got ruined -- its ultra-bizarre understating of things using very weak wording that sounds like they had a laundry problem or traffic jam rather than the destruction of peoples lives by inhibiting treatment. Very bizarre programming. Theres no reason why I should be the single most powerful forum poster in the world. This is ridiculous.

[Saffron]

WHich one leads to more dysfunction and pain and suffering as an adult?

 

Being abused repeatedly as a child -- or having a genetic neurological disorder where all treatments for it are banned, so that the person is in bed while former child abuse victims are laughing with friends and walkijng around with a PTSD emotional issue thats 1000 times less suffering?

 

So in a sense this makes those who use Authoritarianism to Destroy Health Freedom Options worse than child abusers, in that one regard and sense, this is an objective fact not an opinion.

 

Thjey arent even aware of the darkness & evil they engage in, I guess. They are sociopaths, yet partially not aware, both are true.

 

I wish that it wasnt so that all 196 nations are Authoritarian and 0 out of 196 are Non-Authoritarian ... and all governing bodies seem to do this Ultra-Extremist-Bizarre Authoritarian stuff that makes no sense. I mean, banning meds that work for people an dthen backing it by deadly force via sociopathic men that use chemical projectile weapons that rip holes through bodies and organs to gush blood and drop dead or go to prison? What the hell kind of sick mental illness do these people have?

 

So for example, im not a kratom user, but I want to say congratulations to those wanting to ban Kratom as Schedule I controlled Substance, you are worse than child rapists. And how do people react to child abuserS?  now how do people react to kratom banners? Like they got in 2 traffic jams. or like they got a $50 ticket. or like their meal was ruined in the oven -- understating things bizarrely like they are very minor. strange.

 

Anyway I hardly ever post on forums, because as you can clearly see and quicly deduce, im the single most powerful forum poster in the world and it makes me feel awkward and and nervous, i have to go. maybe back in months to make one or two posts. Cant do much, no one is on this level and their vibes are low & dark all the time.

Edited by Saffron, 10 November 2016 - 04:40 AM.

[jack black]

Your post is VERY understandable and you are quite correct when you say Moclob & Tian are far more nootropic than any nootropic is.

Also, im going to sneak this point in because its related in quite an analogous way !! , Im One of the top 5 people in the world

Thanks for the info on that combo. I need to read more on moclobemide. I didn't know it was available in US.

But say, is it causing maniac episodes in your experience?

[normalizing]

moclobemide is like selegiline, why not use selegiline instead heh

[psychejunkie]

There are many cases of Piracetam induced Brain Fog, Verbal Difficulties, Headaches and Hyperkinesia; 

but most of them are relieved from above side-effects as soon as discontinuation or by adding Choline to the soup.

few individuals, though, experience continued difficulties even after taking Choline or discontinuation without any improvement, and this is due to past problems. that's why some believe that people with endocrine problems shouldn't try Piracetam or Racetams in general. although risks are low, but those who continue to have problems usually had endocrine or metabolism difficulties in the first place.

 

 

[gamesguru]

risperidone ruined my life.  CX-546 is the answer.  wuuuut?  why don't i see this ending well?

 

i think you have untreated adhd combined with dietary and physical neglect, which manifests itself as deficits in cognitive flexibility; chronic brain fog.  to fix it, youre seeking selegiline (related to adderall).  there are herbal options, ginseng, ginkgo, mucuna, mu gua, Uncaria Rhynchophylla, Polygala, Psoralea corylifolia and Chaenomeles speciosa.  or even just something like alcar, uridine, and nac

[jack black]

moclobemide is like selegiline, why not use selegiline instead heh

 

it's my understanding that seleginine gives you false positive amphetamine results on urine drug tests. i found an overseas pharmacy that can ship moclobemide, but it's not exactly cheap.

 

BTW, I'm wondering if that Saffron person will come back to respond to my question, LOL.
 

Edited by jack black, 12 November 2016 - 05:40 PM.

[RonBurgandy]

Stop supplementing, let your body get back to baseline and heal. Adding more to try and fix your " problems" is going to lead you nowhere at this point. Judging from your post, I highly doubt piracetam is directly to blame here.

 

Give your body a break and stick to the basics for a few months (healthy eating, exercise, sleep) before assessing what may/may not being beneficial.

 

 

 

[Coffeee]

Piracetam messed up my htpa axis also, After 5 year my sexual function has not been fully restored.....

 

im still trying to figure out how to fix this, i will look into 

moclobemide

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

What does everyone think of p-tam lowering glutamate levels?

https://www.purenoot...ats-difference/

 

"

How Do They Work?

Understanding the mechanism of action for any racetam is a difficult task and scientists have many explanations. According to some, piracetam offers a restoration of membrane fluidity of degraded neuronal cells. Piracetam can also reduce brain glutamate content and the glutamate / GABA ratio.

According to other hypotheses, piracetam modulates steroid sensitive protein synthesis, which is a major part of memory storage and consolidation. Another promising theory cites higher production of acetylcholine, which is a neurotransmitter in the brain that can bind effectively and make faster neurological connections.

Less is known about the mode of action of aniracetam, but similar cholinergic enhancements are expected. This is one of the reasons why many people that supplement with aniracetam and piracetam choose to take choline (a precursor for acetylcholine) as well."

[Saffron]

Moclobemide feels weird and drowsy and induces transient dysphoria. It seems to have the hippocampus neurogenesis feeling for me but other than that, is bad. It doesnt help depression. Im Tired of how anything that is available is bad anything that works is banned or super expensive. everything is rigged to keep suffering going. 

[John250]

Hey People.... I would like to say something about my condition.
I first taked piracetam original Nootropil prescription version, 2x1200mg for 9 month.
Its have been an incredible aid for memory&verbal fluency changed my life both positive&negative.
After 2 months it loose it effects but the verbal fluency stayed with me and before piracetam i was always stuttering, so now I did stutter always too..speech problems... I was motivated by limitless movie i know theres no drug to imitate that...I was gone manic, doing other nootropics but mainly piracetam. First, it was like a miracle for me. I have severe endocrine problems and 3 months after piracetam use dysregulated my HPA axis, now I leaved piracetam because i have chronic fatigue. I have hypothyroid, hypopituitary problems, growth hormone deficiency-testosterone deficiency since my birth. Then 3-4 months use of piracetam endocrine blood test showed low cortisol i need to take hydrocortisone to it but it didn't fix anything. People with endocrine disorders please don't take that drug or any racetam.
Currently i take moclobemide a RIMA (Reversible MAOI-A) and tianeptine I am trying to fix HPA axis dysregulation but it needs 2-3 months.I had chronic fatigue before but now caffeine and nothing works nothing stimulates me. I think cortisol is not my full problem I take 10mg hydrocortisone by morning and it does nothing with my fatigue. Potassium levels was also low.

Now I don't take piracetam and my IQ is decreased like 20-30 points I do stuttering and oftenly swap the worlds, incorrect writing, incoherent speech. Once I was combining 4-5 nootropics and did extreme improvement not only in cognitive enhancement but in . I did take nicergoline, memantine, donepezil(acutely) for 2-3 months maybe but the cortisol problem was before. Now I have severe chronic fatigue my lumosity scores are far from when I did take the nootropics but my physical performance was good my work performance increased with 100-50%. I needed to stop memantine because memory blackouts and the problem didn't go away fully I taked Iron pills in form Ferrous-III-hydroxide-polimaltose complex/0.35mg folic acid and the memory blackouts(i head a head injury in the past 3-4 month) and the other iron deficiency signs like hairbreadth loss are gone. I recomend everyone who have chronic fatigue and/or endocrine problems please don't try piracetam or only for 1-2 months. I had the chronic fatigue before, piracetam was acting like an energy drink for me, caused hypomania, and i did seen the perception improvement, now I don't get anything from piracetam.

Insted of it i recommend moclobemide+tianeptine combo, it is safe to combine because tia is an SSRE not SSRI.
For one week i was so tired like a dead body and couldn't go out from bed only tianeptine helped with my chronic fatigue.

Links for studies.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/7845541

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11297592
moclobemide learning+memory

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14735229
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10817527
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9689417
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2677245

ADHD: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1546129

You see in studies piracetam affects mineralocorticoid receptors aldosterone...moclo fixes aldosterone receptors upregulates it in 2 weeks with 300mg dose and reducing adrenal weight.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2149831

So people, don't do stupid things don't take piracetam with endocrine problems and chronic fatigue.

Are you on testosterone, HGH and Thyroid replacement therapy? It would be miserable to go through life with those levels being off. The correct replacement therapy can not only enhance physical effects but will have a great impact on mental stability.

[foff1335]

Hey there dear members,

Sorry, moclobemide wasn't the answer for me, i had cortisol deficiency since age 2 not piracetam caused it. Doctor didnt wanted to treat cortisol deficiency, no matter it was zero. I take cortisol, adult growth hormone replacement, testosterone, thyroxine and im still so fatigued..I tried several things to affect my fatigue nothing worked doctor added t3 to t4.... Tianeptine was awesome for me but that fatigue diminishing effect is gone, since I take Antipsychotic, Abilify, for auditory hallucinations..I hear voices. I was on several nootropics, racetams and memantine. theres my theory: Mem is d2 agonist so i withdrawed the agonist because of terrible side effects and receptors upregulated crazily....Because of verbal fluency i want to restart piracetam...now i lost all my motivation,energy because of dopamine antagonism... What do you recommend for me? I wouldnt categorize myself as a schizophrenic, because schizophrenics doesnt have feelings, and they feel desire to complete the things the voices are want to do with them and they think people can see inside its head. IF I START TO TAKE TIANEPTINE AGAIN, MY HALLUCINATIONS ARE SOO SO MUCH WORSE... WHY? BECAUSE OF D2 AGONISM, OR GLUTAMATERGIC MODULATION? ABILIFY DIDNT WORK FOR ME, MY HALLUCINATIONS ARE STILL THERE MEANING ITS FROM GLUTAMATE OR TOO MUCH D2 RECEPTORS....I want to take piracetam again because if its not causing my hallucinations IM 2+ YEARS OFF NOOTROPICS AND STILL HAVE HALLUCINATIONS....

THANKS FOR READING MY POST, JOZSEF.

[Intropersona]

there is also a cheaper and more tolerable version of moclobemide called harmine that is found in syrian rue seeds. It is also a reversable MAOI. It allows for better sleep function so i have heard.

[normalizing]

i was eating those syrian rue seeds to get the harmine but it wasnt anything special. the taste was horrible and people suggest you grind and drink them with something sweet. for what  is worth, its not worth it