26 replies to this topic

[Diocletian]

Which anti-aging supplements should someone who is 29 years old and healthy take to slow down aging?

 

I read all topics about Senolytics, Nicotinamide Riboside, Mitochondrially targeted antioxidants, AGE inhibitors and I am still not sure which of these supplements are good for relatively young and healthy people.

 

What are you young (25-35 years old) healthy poeple taking?

Edited by Diocletian, 21 September 2016 - 07:52 PM.

[Darryl]

You may feel healthy, but the same processes that lead to "genomic instability, telomere attrition, epigenetic alterations, loss of proteostasis, deregulated nutrient sensing, mitochondrial dysfunction, cellular senescence, stem cell exhaustion, and altered intercellular communication" are taking place, and in many cases have been since shortly after your conception.

 

There's little evidence in the animal intervention literature that supplements effect aging differently between subjects just past maturity and subjects in advanced senescence. The few dietary and compound interventions that appear to extend life in mammals have greater effects when started sooner.

 

Don't expect someone else here to personalize a supplement regimen. We mostly just look at the the evidence and do our own cost-benefit-risk analysis. For me, that includes a whole plant based diet high in prebiotic fermentable fiber and hormetic polyphenols while low in methionine, moderate exercise, and supplementation with glycine, magnesium salicylate, nicotinic acid, K2mk7, Andrographis, and vegan nutritional insurance (B12, algal EPA/DHA, taurine, creatine, β-alanine, carnitine, zinc, kelp iodine). Your concerns and engagement with the literature will differ.

Edited by Darryl, 21 September 2016 - 11:04 PM.

[aribadabar]

supplementation with glycine, magnesium salicylate, nicotinic acid, K2mk7, Andrographis, and vegan nutritional insurance (B12, algal EPA/DHA, taurine, creatine, β-alanine, carnitine, zinc, kelp iodine). 

 

You dropped metformin as well? Would you share your reasons why?

Yes, it is not exactly a supplement but neither is Mg Salicylate even though it is sold as an OTC back pain drug.

 

Thanks!

Edited by aribadabar, 22 September 2016 - 06:59 PM.

[Darryl]

I haven't started taking metformin, but I did and still do think its promising, particularly due to a study that found diabetics prescribed metformin had lower mortality than aged matched non-diabetics.

 

Bannister et al, 2014. Can people with type 2 diabetes live longer than those without? A comparison of mortality in people initiated with metformin or sulphonylurea monotherapy and matched, non‐diabetic controls. Diabetes, Obesity and Metabolism, 16(11), pp.1165-1173.

 

My fasting blood glucose runs 68-70 mg/dL, so I'm clearly not a candidate for diabetes drugs. Metformin extends lifespan in obese but not normal weight rodents, rather little circulates systemically beyond the liver, and it seems likely that its effects owe a great deal to modulating the gut microbiota. Whereas metformin increases Akkermansia in mice by 12%, oligofructose (onions, leeks, garlic etc) increases Akkermansia 100-fold and beans 20-fold. I prefer to keep it simple, focus on diet/lifestyle vs supplements, and I'm not convinced metformin would offer much in the context of my current diet.

 

My biggest actual supplement changes over the past two years have been adding 5-10 g glycine to my evening water or hibiscus tea (as a methionine restriction mimetic and collagen/glutathione precursor), and dropping berberine. I'm very picky about potential genotoxins. 

 

 

[TheFountain]

I would recommend a good Resveratrol extract, take 500mgs a day in the morning. 

 

Astragalus root, about a gram a day at night. 

 

Nitric oxide stimulators like Arginine and Beet extract.

 

In the looks department, wear a good full spectrum sunscreen.

 

Have sex and masturbate a lot. 

 

[aconita]

The only evidence on HUMANS relates to statistical analysis of centenarian populations, basically from Sardinia (Italy) and Okinawa (Japan), all the rest is just rats, mice and fruit flies.

 

No supplement has been proven yet to make a dent in aging, we can only guess and hope.

 

If someone thinks rats and mice are reliable models in order to predict human outcomes just check what has been shown amazingly efficient in raising rodents testosterone and which of those substances actually makes any difference in human testosterone levels.

 

Therefore if you aim for something reliably related to humans check out the lifestyles of those centenarians mentioned above and leave alone supplements or sunscreens, if it makes you feel better the hope that taking some substance might give you an advantage the list is endless...

[Darryl]

I'd like to correct my post above (#4), I wrote:

 

Metformin extends lifespan in obese but not normal weight rodents

 

I was probably confusing metformin studies with some rapamycin studies. What I should have written is:

 

Metformin, if started early in life, extends lifespan in mice, but not if started late in life or in rats.

[Skyguy2005]

I'm 28 and my "stack" consists pretty much mostly herbs:

(1) Ginkgo Biloba

(2) Valerian Root

(3) Willow Bark

(4) Red Reishi (recently replaced with Celery Seed because it's cheaper)

(5) Glucosamine

 

I also drink lots of ginkgo, green, and turmeric teas. (NB: Ginkgo tea has to be gently boiled for about 5 minutes in a pan to get a good "brew"). I walk 10000+ steps a day. Exercise enhances every supplement/herb because it gets the juices flowing. The only vitamins are B complex + magnesium.

 

I basically worship herbs, whilst having relative contempt for things like nicotinamide riboside, taurine, glycine etc. I must admit an absence of real evidence for such a philosophy: It's based mainly on personal experience/preference - I just don't seem to notice anything with any of those things, despite the impressive studies on them. Also, if lifespan may not be infinite, money *definitely* isn't - I'd be more likely to slum it with niacin than splash out on NR.

Edited by Skyguy2005, 16 October 2016 - 05:40 PM.

[Diocletian]

After research I decided to do the following:

1) Exercise

2) Healthy food (rich in proteins, vitamins and minerals)

3) Sunscreen and Vitamin C - to slow down skin aging

4) Omega-3 supplement

 

In 5 to 10 years many promising things are comming:

1) George Church - gene editing

2) Bioviva - telomeres

3) Senescent cell clearance

4) C60oo - high quality and tested

[Diocletian]

I'm 28 and my "stack" consists pretty much mostly herbs:

(1) Ginkgo Biloba

(2) Valerian Root

(3) Willow Bark

(4) Red Reishi (recently replaced with Celery Seed because it's cheaper)

(5) Glucosamine

 

I also drink lots of ginkgo, green, and turmeric teas. (NB: Ginkgo tea has to be gently boiled for about 5 minutes in a pan to get a good "brew"). I walk 10000+ steps a day. Exercise enhances every supplement/herb because it gets the juices flowing. The only vitamins are B complex + magnesium.

 

I basically worship herbs, whilst having relative contempt for things like nicotinamide riboside, taurine, glycine etc. I must admit an absence of real evidence for such a philosophy: It's based mainly on personal experience/preference - I just don't seem to notice anything with any of those things, despite the impressive studies on them. Also, if lifespan may not be infinite, money *definitely* isn't - I'd be more likely to slum it with niacin than splash out on NR.

 

Yes I agree exercise is very important, I realised that after reading posts from Mind, he is main guy here so he must know this stuff.

[Synaptik]

Huge believer is Ginkgo Biloba in anti-aging therapy. I started taking anti-oxs in my early 20s as a preventative measure, and I credit Gingko the most for keeping my youthful look at 40 (especially through some hard partying years and semi-regular cigarette smoking). Religiously would take Ginkgo, a secondary revolving anti-ox and drink strong green tea every day. One of the best commitments I've ever made.

 

This continues today, with Ginkgo tincture a staple along with 1-2 Tbl Turmeric/olive oil/pepperine, 1000+mg niacin/b vitamin and 500 mg vitamin C, green/hawthorne/red clover/ yerbe mate tea (take your pick) and semi-regular anti ox like graviola or gotu kola. Keep up a regimen like this and it'll do wonders.

 

 

 

If these findings can be replicated in something other than yeast, it's a major discovery, outperforming the anti-ageing effects of both rapamycin and metformin. And in addition to slowing ageing, the compounds may also have beneficial effects on cellular processes when it comes to preventing related diseases, such as cancer, the researchers say. The other extracts come fromCimicifuga racemosa, Valeriana officinalis L., Passiflora incarnata L., Ginkgo biloba,and Apium graveolens L..

 

http://www.scienceal...low-down-ageing

 

 

Gotta start eating more celery!

Edited by Synaptik, 22 October 2016 - 02:49 AM.

[treonsverdery]

Deprenyl is published as causing greater longevity at three mammalian species rats, mice, dogs.  https://www.google.c...=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[normalizing]

darryl where did you get this info "oligofructose (onions, leeks, garlic etc) increases Akkermansia 100-fold" ?

 

there have been huge rumors going around garlic is actually good for the microbiota, NOT TRUE AT ALL. garlic is ANTIBIOTIC. ive taken it with probiotics before and i mixed it with probiotics under microscope to see results, it kills them instantly! stop spreading this rumors please it has been going on forever now garlic IS NOT PREBIOTIC!

[Darryl]

darryl where did you get this info "oligofructose (onions, leeks, garlic etc) increases Akkermansia 100-fold" ?

 

As an isolated supplement, given to genetically obese mice consuming high fat lab diets. I don't believe it would have anywhere near this effect taken as a supplement in ordinary human diets. However mice on HFD is such a common protocol to induce chronic Western diseases, and the diets are so well defined, that its probably a relevant model to humans eating highly refined Western diets. 

 

Everard et al, 2013. Cross-talk between Akkermansia muciniphila and intestinal epithelium controls diet-induced obesity. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 110(22), pp.9066-9071.

 

I'm not persuaded there's anything special about oligofructose, as it appears any microbiota-available carbohydrate that increases intestinal short chain fatty acids (oligofructose, bean α-galactosides, arabinoxylan, resistant starch) will increase mucin and thence feed Akkermansia. The studies on cranberry polyphenols and metformin suggests that compounds with mostly antimicrobial action also have limited positive impact, perhaps by impairing competing species.

 

As for the effects of onions and garlic on the human gut microbiota, there just been one non-compliance compromised pilot study that demonstrated significant effects on Bifido, Lactobacillus, C. diff and Bacteroides, but didn't identify whether the high onion diet raised or lowered amounts compared to the low onion diet. 

 

Just because something has antimicrobial properties doesn't mean its an antiseptic. In many cases it just selects for resistant species. Hominins have probably been eating bulb vegetables for several million years. Plenty of time for the normal microbiota to adapt, though perhaps not enough for opportunistic intestinal pathogens to do so.

 

More on SFCAs and mucin production:

Willemsen et al, 2003. Short chain fatty acids stimulate epithelial mucin 2 expression through differential effects on prostaglandin E1 and E2 production by intestinal myofibroblasts. Gut, 52(10), pp.1442-1447.

Burger-van Paassen et al, 2009. The regulation of intestinal mucin MUC2 expression by short-chain fatty acids: implications for epithelial protection. Biochemical Journal, 420(2), pp.211-219.

 

Edited by Darryl, 29 October 2016 - 10:17 AM.

[normalizing]

darryl, how does one get Akkermansia in the first place considering maybe perhaps the person doesnt even have this bacteria in them or it has died from antibiotic use??

[vapaatyyli]

What about carnosine, it is safe to use long term and have interesting anti-aging abilities, my mum uses it and she says there is strong anti-aging effect. Not sure if it helps young people that much though.
https://jonbarron.or...lement-research

I guess drinking some sort of green tea, roobois combo long term would be pretty smart thing to do.
http://www.mynewsroo...eing-potential/

Also blueberries and gojiberries might be useful, it seems like those are great combo with carnosine.
Carnosine and blueberry extract together synergistically improved proliferation of human stem cells in vitro by 83%.
https://en.m.wikiped.../wiki/Carnosine

Edited by vapaatyyli, 31 October 2016 - 07:05 PM.

[normalizing]

so how does your mom claim carnosine has strong anti-aging effect on her, did she start feeling "frisky" again or what?

Edited by normalizing, 31 October 2016 - 09:21 PM.

[aconita]

Beta alanine might be a better choice than carnosine since it is "the rate-limiting precursor of carnosine, which is to say carnosine levels are limited by the amount of available β-alanine".

 

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Beta-Alanine

[normalizing]

ive taken both beta alanine and carnosine, i felt something on carnosine and on beta alanine absolutely nothing. so therefore, i think carnosine probably works and does something compared with beta alanine

Edited by normalizing, 01 November 2016 - 02:48 AM.

[Darryl]

> how does one get Akkermansia in the first place

 

Around 92% already have it, but unfortunately, its not available in any prebiotic, yet.

 

Derrien et al, 2008. The mucin degrader Akkermansia muciniphila is an abundant resident of the human intestinal tract. Applied and environmental microbiology, 74(5), pp.1646-1648.

 

Gómez-Gallego et al, 2016. Akkermansia muciniphila: a novel functional microbe with probiotic properties. Beneficial microbes, 7(4), pp.571-584.

The species is not included in the European Union qualified presumption of safety (QPS) list and has not yet been assessed. Moreover, products containing A. muciniphila are not on the market and are thus controlled by the Novel Foods Regulation, which requires extensive safety assessment

[RWhigham]

 

As an isolated supplement, given to genetically obese mice consuming high fat lab diets. I don't believe it would have anywhere near this effect taken as a supplement in ordinary human diets. However mice on HFD is such a common protocol to induce chronic Western diseases, and the diets are so well defined, that its probably a relevant model to humans eating highly refined Western diets. - Darryl

 

The phrase "high fat diet" means nothing without details.

 

Murine studies in the US use the "Murine Standard High Fat Lab Diet" loaded with trans-fats which proves that its unhealthy to live on margarine. Its so great, researchers get publishable results ie "fat is bad", which the establishment loves - without ever saying whats actually in the "Standard High Fat Diet" and lumping all varieties of fat together.

 

In the US, the Murine Standard High Fat Lab Diet has been around since they were pushing margarine as a healthy substitute for butter. I assume they did not know in the beginning that it was deadly. But it became a standard, and now it's de rigueur.

 

If you want to look for useful murine studies, the Koreans feed them acceptable diets (if I recall correctly).

I would doubt the validity of any murine HFD study in the US. Also, its idiotic to lump all fats together.

Edited by RWhigham, 02 November 2016 - 01:22 AM.

[treonsverdery]

Noting that, as far ask I know, metformin as well as other metformin like molecules cause greater longevity at lab mammals what are supplements that measurably reduce blood sugar?  Cinnamon is mentioned.  I interpret as reducing blood sugar 8 out of 100. Gymnema sylvestre is also mentioned at pubmed.  It is published as reducing glucose about 1/3 at both rodents and humans. https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26665406

 

does anyone here know if there are supplements that are metformin like in effect?

 

I saw this link, which lists a few things.

http://www.healthlin...abetesOverview1

 

Cinnamon is mentioned at this pubmed thing https://www.ncbi.nlm...koyama Cinnamon

"Cinnamon intake, either as whole cinnamon or as cinnamon extract, results in a statistically significant lowering in FBG (-0.49±0.2 mmol/L; n=8, P=.025) and intake of cinnamon extract only also lowered FBG (-0.48 mmol/L±0.17; n=5, P=.008). Thus cinnamon extract and/or cinnamon improves FBG in people with type 2 diabetes or prediabetes."

 

translating those numbers, I interpret -.48 as about -8 on the the diabetes thing where 100 is (was) normal:

mmol/L mg/dl   0.06 1   0.28 5   0.55 10

 

 

So theoretically, if you used cinnamon, you would likely go from 100 to 92.

 

Edited by treonsverdery, 31 December 2016 - 11:38 PM.

[tintinet]

IIRC, many herbal supplements can lower blood glucose- berberine and alma come to mind immediately.

[niner]

Murine studies in the US use the "Murine Standard High Fat Lab Diet" loaded with trans-fats which proves that its unhealthy to live on margarine. Its so great, researchers get publishable results ie "fat is bad", which the establishment loves - without ever saying whats actually in the "Standard High Fat Diet" and lumping all varieties of fat together.

I found a paper on the SHFD; it give details of the content.  The fat portion isn't terrible-- It's mostly lard, fave of paleo fans, with a small amount of soybean oil.  It's not hydrogenated, so the only trans fatty acids should be the naturally occurring ones in the lard.

[pamojja]

I found a paper on the SHFD; it give details of the content.  The fat portion isn't terrible-- It's mostly lard, fave of paleo fans, with a small amount of soybean oil.  It's not hydrogenated, so the only trans fatty acids should be the naturally occurring ones in the lard.

 

Such an artificial diet day in day out of those poor creatures live is pure animal cruelty:

 

 fat_diet.png   66.88KB   2 downloads

 

Still a world different even from every SAD.

 

Funnily, I've almost got a identical macro-nutrient ratio (prot. 19%, carb. 13%, fat 68%) started almost 8 years ago due to a 60% disability from PAD and becoming pre-diabetic. Government just canceled my disability, and didn't gain a gram in weight. 

 

The sadder, since such 'science' serves no real world human purpose. Other than to show mice don't do well on a diet not natural to them.

Edited by pamojja, 02 January 2017 - 09:50 PM.

[RWhigham]

I found a paper on the SHFD; it give details of the content.  The fat portion isn't terrible-- It's mostly lard, fave of paleo fans, with a small amount of soybean oil.  It's not hydrogenated, so the only trans fatty acids should be the naturally occurring ones in the lard.

How is it the lard doesn't leak out of the kibble? and get everything greasy.  I suspect the solidification of the lard in the kibble has been considered a proprietary detail not worth mentioning.

Edited by RWhigham, 03 January 2017 - 04:54 PM.

[RWhigham]

Which anti-aging supplements should someone who is 29 years old and healthy take to slow down aging?

You should start with tau aggregation inhibitors now - things like cinnamon, green tea, garlic, and many others. See post #2 in bioscience news section http://www.longecity...et-tau-protein/  Thesis: Tau pathology is a prion like molecle that spreads throughout the brain over a lifetime. It's usually in Stage I by age 50, and once it reaches Stage II, the progression is inexorable. Stage IV = Alzheimer's Disease.  The paper listed is very thorough and convincing. 

Edited by RWhigham, 03 January 2017 - 06:07 PM.