135 replies to this topic

[Mind_Paralysis]

What is the rationale behind that? please explain.

 

I need some more expect input here, going to keep trying to find a specialist but its so hard to. Also, nobody has heard of this magnesium l-threonate.

 

There is some evidence, in rodents, that it takes at least a month to have an effect. That kind of makes sense actually - i didn;t notice much at first.

 

The evidences suggests that it up regulates NR2B-containing NMDA receptors. I don't know what the implications of that are, nor how to reverse that if it is indeed a problem, and what effect that has on glutamatergic transmission. That will dictate whether something like lamotrigine is good or bad. 

 

I believe the net-effect has to eventually be LOWERED glutamatergic neurotransmission - remember, MagLT was created for the treatment of Alzheimers - just like Memantine - so most likely they were targetting glutamatergic neurotoxicity, in order to protect neurons from the continous daily glutamate-storm which Alzheimers causes.

 

 

[Quaker32]

Just to clarify, you are saying that the net effect of MgT would be that it lowers glutamatergic transmission?

 

So, I would need to boost glutamateric transmission as a way out of this bullshit?

 

Lamotrigine and I believe NAC, also lower presynaptic glutamate release. So it might be the wrong thing. I don't want to get ahead though without working this out. 

[Mind_Paralysis]

Just to clarify, you are saying that the net effect of MgT would be that it lowers glutamatergic transmission?

 

So, I would need to boost glutamateric transmission as a way out of this bullshit?

 

Lamotrigine and I believe NAC, also lower presynaptic glutamate release. So it might be the wrong thing. I don't want to get ahead though without working this out. 

 

 

Well, perhaps - but that response may not be the same in all brains, when I think about it - seeing as you DON'T have Alzheimers, your response may not be the same.

 

Many people have reported depersonalisation as a result of high doses of NMDA-antagonists, but none of them had Alzheimers, to my recollection.

 

It could be that yes, MagLT lowered NMDA-activity to the point that you were struck by a glutamate-storm from other glutamatergic systems - the irony is that PERHAPS, if you had continued to take MagLT, then it would eventually have treated the disease instead!

 

Crazy, but all theoretical - a bit like how SSRI's treat anxiety - by overloading serotonergic systems to the breaking-point, wherein they have NO CHOICE but to turn off and lower serotonergic activity.

 

 

Anyways, stick to the Lamotrigine - it's the only substance which has been shown to improve these symptoms - regardless of how it works, it's the only thing which has any scientific studies backing it.

[Quaker32]

But I was told in an email from somebody who worked with MgT, that it seems to up regulate NMDA receptors containing the NR2B subunit, not lowering nada-activity like you said above.

 

But I dunno man. I emailed the dude again but he said he isn't medically trained and probably reluctant to give advice. 

Shall I take 100mg lamotrigine and see how I feel? 

[Mind_Paralysis]

But I was told in an email from somebody who worked with MgT, that it seems to up regulate NMDA receptors containing the NR2B subunit, not lowering nada-activity like you said above.

 

But I dunno man. I emailed the dude again but he said he isn't medically trained and probably reluctant to give advice. 

Shall I take 100mg lamotrigine and see how I feel? 

 

I would try to go somewhere in-between, personally - so, perhaps 75 mg's of Lamotrigine? Give or take - it's tricky to get the dosage right.

 

Also, talk to your Dr. about increasing dosage, even if you do it yourself before she gives the A-OK.

 

 

EDIT:

Interesting that you mention that it doesn't seem to lower NMDA-activity at all - I wonder if that makes it a complete f***ing bust when it comes to treating Alzheimers then? Another complete failure.

 

I suppose it WOULDN'T help with other NMDA-overactive diseases either then, like ADHD! Theoretically, it would have made ALL of my ADHD-symptoms far, far worse in the long-term, then.

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 20 December 2016 - 01:11 PM.

[Quaker32]

I wouldn't touch it mate, until it's been fully approved or you have discussed it with a psychiatrist. Finding one is bloody hard enough, I know.

 

Anyway, one of the researchers who has conducted research on Magnesium L-Threonate just sent me this reply. I quite directly from my email inbox.

 

"Mg normally blocks the NMDA receptor (antagonist action), but when exposed to the chemical over a long period of time the idea is that the brain adapts and changes (compensates) in a way that is more consistent with facilitating the action of glutamate. But this has not been fully explored as far as I know.

 

I know of no way to rapidly reverse this kind of chronic effect of Mg. But because the brain adjusted or accommodated the initial taking of the chemical, the presumption is that, when the extra Mg is removed, the system will eventually adjust back to some baseline. Of course, taking other drugs that work on these same receptors will likely influence and further modulate the system and complicate the prediction of the timing of the recovery.

 

I’m afraid that’s about all the information I can offer you Quaker32.

 

Best wishes for a full recovery.

[Quaker32]

I'm thinking of ditching the lamotrigine and seeing if glycine or sarcosine will help.

[Quaker32]

https://area1255.blo...levels-in.html 

 

 

fuck, fuck i don't know anymore. 

[Heisok]

Hi, perhaps you need to give your Doctor a chance to treat you as long as you have been 100% up front with them about all your symptoms, behaviors and treatments tried. Starting a medication such as Lamictal is a process. It takes time, and titration up as needed to see effectiveness. Weeks or months, not days. Of course, if they say stop now, then I would go with it.

 

Sorry that I do not have a solution for you, but you have tried this your way. If you trust the Doctor's expertise, try it their way. I believe that Stinkorninjor has great points.

[Quaker32]

I didn;t get a chance to tell the doctor about this stuff, but I will absolutely emphasise it on my next visit. 

[Quaker32]

I am extremely distressed by the mind/blank symptoms and the inability to store memories. If I shut my eyes, there is nothing: no internal diagloue or any pictures. It's a strain to think.

 

I wonder if I have killed my neutrons through excitotoxicity. 

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

My mind is also blank. Little magnesium overdosage has worsen the symptoms. 

[Quaker32]

Michael, what do you mean by blank mind? Is it similar to what I have described to you? In terms of my symptoms....   It would be helpful to know. 

 

Why did you take magnesium? What was that for?

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

It's exactly the same. Almost no inner monologue (it's very very weak). No imagination, can't recall almost anything from the past. I can't even recall what I was doing 1 week ago. The other symptoms are huge apathy. anhedonia and emotional numbness. I took magnesium bcuz I have https://en.wikipedia...lation_syndrome but it didn't worked. 

[Quaker32]

Worst comes to worst, there is now rTMS for DPD in the US and in the UK. But that is my last resort. Interestingly, they also do rTMS for addiction.

 

I've still got very strong suicidal tendencies but that's because of what I am going through. I just want to write something and I have been reluctant to write it so far, because where I am from, people would shun me and stop giving me advice or talk to me, or even give me false advice to harm me.

 

I have spoken at length about my addiction in another thread I made. In september 2015, basically the descent of my life started. I had just found out over the summer as well, that I required hernia surgery at Xmas and had chronic muscle pain as well. I stayed away from most things in my addiction for about 2.5 months, and had just started a new job.

 

Out of the blue, one day I literally woke up and experienced huge huge cravings, or more like waves of compulsivity, to engage in sex with transgender escorts. I had watched that kind of porn before but had not watched it for about 8 months when this happened, and I was not thinking about getting into trans women or anything like that.

 

This whole experience really fucked me up. Huge confusion and identity loss, I think it set the origin of my descent into DPD psychologically.

 

This whole year, I had non-stop cravings for this sex again, and then more crazy things. It was escalating again.

 

Psychologically, I've been torn to shreds. I'm amazed that I didn't go more, such were the cravings strength.

 

I've looked at those escorts again in the last few days, but I hope that I am out of this turmoil now and if the ibogaine or MgT can offer me anything positive, which they bloody owe me, then I will be relieved. 

 

EDIT: Bit off topic from the biological treatments we are discussing but I just need to get this off my chest. 

 

Edited by Quaker32, 21 December 2016 - 11:43 AM.

[Quaker32]

Michael, have you been diagnosed with BFS or just experiencing very bad twitches and cramps? I had the latter this year and I know how to stop it (well, in my case anyway).

 

What form of magnesium did you take? Was it Magnesiun Threonate or something else?

 

And did your blank mind come after the magnesium or before? You say the magnesium made it worse though. 

 

Have you spoken to a professional and did they offer you anything/give you any meds?

 

thanks pal.

[Catwoman]

I'm still on the MgLT, I take 4 capsules a day. The heart palpitations I mentioned earlier are probably from underlying stress. I went for a run this morning and I didn't have a faster or more noticeable heart beat at all.
I think it's OK, but it doesn't have any effect on my over-active thinking or obsessive thoughts. The unwanted thought came back with a vengeance last week (it wasn't gone either) but I seemed to do well on 2000 mg of NAC. It made my head clearer and the unwanted thought I have wasn't intruding as much.

But anyway, did you speak to a professional?

I think rTMS is interesting. I would rather spend €2000 on that than go on the psych med caroussel..

[Mind_Paralysis]

It should be noted that MichaelTheAnhedonic also has full-blown schizophrenia, and hence, he is unusually sensitive to any and all NMDA-antagonism - he also has other issues, which complicate things further.

 

Just putting it out there, to you Quaker32, so that you have more information when taking his case into consideration.

 

 

I think it's clear that you do seem to be afflicted by very clear addiction-issues - I think it's a good thing you told the story you did, because it's good to get things off your chest sometimes. How is your counselling going? Have you continued treatment? Sometimes talking to an understanding human being can do amazing things for you.

(btw, I just want you to know, that I would never judge you harshly for your issues - no man is perfect, or an island, and I have issues of my own, which although not the same, the distressing effects certainly mirror yours)

 

 

I'm still on the MgLT, I take 4 capsules a day. The heart palpitations I mentioned earlier are probably from underlying stress. I went for a run this morning and I didn't have a faster or more noticeable heart beat at all.
I think it's OK, but it doesn't have any effect on my over-active thinking or obsessive thoughts. The unwanted thought came back with a vengeance last week (it wasn't gone either) but I seemed to do well on 2000 mg of NAC. It made my head clearer and the unwanted thought I have wasn't intruding as much.

But anyway, did you speak to a professional?

I think rTMS is interesting. I would rather spend €2000 on that than go on the psych med caroussel..

 

I agree - rTMS is a highly fascinating and exciting technology! = )

 

The fact that it's becoming more and more available, is quite good and exciting! However, the evidence for efficacy is not yet as great as with ECT or Medications, so I wouldn't put too much faith in it just yet, other than for a few specific applications.

 

I do believe the technology has GREAT potential though!
 

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 21 December 2016 - 09:50 PM.

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

Dafuq mate? I don't have schizophrenia o_O I've never had any psychotic attack in my life ;_;

Edited by MichaelTheAnhedonic, 22 December 2016 - 06:08 AM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

Dafuq mate? I don't have schizophrenia o_O I've never had any psychotic attack in my life ;_;

 

My apologies! I got you mixed up with YoungSchizo, the fellow who tried out Fasoracetam, at high doses, without noticing any effect whatsoever. (which is highly unusual, and may be as a result of him being schizophrenic)
 

[Quaker32]

Just had an email reply from the man who made MagT. Find below:

 

 

 

"Dear X,

 

Thank you for your email on this matter. I received email from Quaker32 several days ago and had asked my colleague to respond to his questions.

 

Safety of MgT have been evaluated by multiple human clinical trials. So far, there are no significant side-effects at daily dosage at 2g/day for 3-month treatment.

 

Dosage Quaker32 take is 1/10 th of dosage we used in our human clinical trials. At this dosage, we don’t expect any positive effect, and obviously, chance of having any side-effects are further reduced.

 

Since cognitive impairment Quaker32 experienced occurred after taking the mixture of 200mg MgT, 1500mg inositol, and 0.5g ibogaine, one might consider the interactions among three components. However, MgT will be cleared from blood within 10 hr after oral intake. MgT cannot be accumulated in the body.

 

Since we don’t know potential negative interaction between MgT with other compounds, or drug, product we sell only contains MgT + vitamin.

 

Finally, Sabre Sciences has no authorization from us to sell MgT containing products.

 

I hope this information is helpful.

 

Best,

G

Edited by Quaker32, 22 December 2016 - 06:58 PM.

[pamojja]

It truly is amazing to me how the initial attitude determines the outcomes with such depersonalization experiences. Found on an other forum a psychologist running into such troubles after doing an intensive meditation retreat:

 

http://www.dharmaove...message/5936367

 

Note, how most respondents learned to handle it without medication, and go on with their life.

 

But even with more physiological chronic conditions, like in my case a severe PAD, where one get prescribed polypharmacy for live. Still without any hope for improvement but a big maybe in slowing it down. Found it is possible to beat all odds. Given the right attitudes.

 

Radical Remission, by Kelly A. Turner, PhD

 

During the course of the study, Kelly identified more than seventy-five factors that cancer survivors said they used as a part of their healing journey. Nine of these factors were used by almost every one of them. They are as follows:

 

1. Radically change the diet
Let your food be your medicine, and medicine your food (Hippocrates)
- avoid sugar, meat, dairy products and processed foods
- eat lots of fruits and vegetables
- limit to organic food
- drink only filtered water
 
2. Take control of health
Action is the basic key to success (Pablo Picasso)
- actively participate
- be prepared for change
- resolve resistance
 
3. Follow your own intuition
In vital matters, the decision should come from the unconscious, somewhere from within (Sigmund Freud)
- listen to body signals
- activate the intuition
- find the right change
 
4. Take herbs and food supplements
The art of healing comes from nature and not from the physician (Paracelsus)
- help digestion: digestive enzymes, prebiotics and probiotics
- boost the immune system: e.g. Vitamin C, other vitamins (B12, D3, K2), fish oil, trace elements, certain edible fungi, aloe vera; and hormones (melatonin)
- detoxify the body:
   - antimycotics (eg olive leaf extract, celery, nettle)
   - antiparasitic substances (eg wormwood, yellow root, black nut husks)
   - antibacterial and antiviral (eg garlic, oregano oil, Pau d'Arco)
   - liver detoxification (eg milk spotted dwarf, dandelion root, sweet tooth root)
- supplements alone is not enough
 
5. Release oppressed emotions
Anger is an acid which can cause much greater damage to the vessel in which it is stored than to what it pours (Mark Twain)
- disease is blockade
- what are suppressed emotions?
- stress and cancer
- anxiety and cancer
- the waterfall solution
 
6. Enhance positive emotions
The meaning of life is to be happy (Dalai Lama)
- what are positive emotions?
- what are the positive emotions in the body?
- happiness must be practiced daily
- but one does not have to be permanently happy
 
7. Allow social support
In poverty and misery, friends are the only refuge (Aristotle)
- experience love
- do not feel alone
- physical contact
 
8. Deepen the spiritual connection
This is the greatest mistake in the treatment of diseases: that there are doctors for the body and physicians for the soul, where both can not be separated (Plato)
- experience spirituality
- a third kind of love
- the relationship between the physical and the spiritual
- it is important to exercise regularly
- it is important to calm the mind
 
9. Have strong reasons for life
People say that it is the meaning of life that we all seek. I do not believe that this is what we are really looking for. I believe what we are looking for is an experience of being alive ... (Joseph Campbell)
- place deep trust in one's inner being
- the mind directs the body
- finding one's calling
 
http://www.radicalremission.com/

 

the best

Edited by pamojja, 24 December 2016 - 01:16 PM.

[Quaker32]

Thanks. I do some of those already. Need to do more. 

 

I am not taking the lamotrigine anymore but am going to wait until I see my new doctor and see what he says. I have not had continuity with a dr and that's been part of the problem.

 

I am still taking 200mg sertraline and I think it is too high and actually making things worse. I wonder what a dose half of that would do. I am noting these self-observations and will ask the dr. By that, I mean its making my head "stuffy" and I feel more stupid.

 

Noribogaine is apparently a potent SSRI (how potent compared to pharmaceuticals I do not know). Perhaps that alone can contribute to DP/DR and even higher levels are not good.

 

I think the best course of acton right now is to sit tightly and wait for that appointment and hopefully whatever metabolites are left over form the ibogaine will have cleared by then. 

[Quaker32]

I feel extremely suicidal today and I don't know whether its because of the sertraline or because the sertraline has kicked in and I am feeling emotions...I feel extremely hopeless and guilty about the way I have fucked my life up, like a complete failure. I am probably extremely depressed as well. 

 

The type of feeling I have got is like a new more awful feeling of depression than I have ever had before. Goodness is it bad.

[dreamedm]

I feel extremely suicidal today and I don't know whether its because of the sertraline or because the sertraline has kicked in and I am feeling emotions...I feel extremely hopeless and guilty about the way I have fucked my life up, like a complete failure. I am probably extremely depressed as well. 

 

The type of feeling I have got is like a new more awful feeling of depression than I have ever had before. Goodness is it bad.

 

Hang in there dude, I'm in the same boat. I also feel like I fucked up really bad, but hey - nobody's perfect and virtually nobody's a saint. We're still alive, therefore it's possible that we can recover and become a better version of ourselves. As long as we're alive, we shouldn't give up. 

[Catwoman]

I feel extremely suicidal today and I don't know whether its because of the sertraline or because the sertraline has kicked in and I am feeling emotions...I feel extremely hopeless and guilty about the way I have fucked my life up, like a complete failure. I am probably extremely depressed as well. 

 

The type of feeling I have got is like a new more awful feeling of depression than I have ever had before. Goodness is it bad.

Sertraline should help with the depression...but if you're not at the 4 weeks mark then it probably makes you feel worse before it will make you feel better, Suicidal thoughts is a known side effect. I remember that my first week on escitalopram wasn't that bad, but the second week I began to feel more anxious, with more intrusive thoughts. In the third week (quite soon) I felt it kicking in...
Hang in there!

 

[Quaker32]

yo.

 

I think I am somewhere in week 6-8. :S

 

It only just felt like it kicked in but I am feeling awful or was yesterday. I remember you are the lady with OCD from the other thread. Right.

 

You might be able to help me with a few questions, please. If I come off sertraline and go back on it a second time, does it work as well?

 

I don't know if you read all of this particular thread, but part of my issue is from the sex addiction where I started having types of sex that really confused me. Because I get cravings and intrusive thoughts, the battle is always raging, and that I believe is partly driving my very intense dissociation.

 

As A type of defence mechanism....if the mind is too dangerous to be in then dislocation is a way to be out of the body. IN my case, it's gone to the fuckign EXTREME where I am detached from "me" and the surrounding feel "unreal".

 

I took a promethazine tablet last night and for like 1 minute, that raging battle just calmed down in my head. I didn't feel like my old self by a long stretch, but it was pretty lovely. Like having an ice cold glass of water after exercise on a hot summer's day.

 

Have you ever tried Seroquel or a low-dose antipsychotic to lower your anxiety level and for intrusive thoughts? A therapist who started her career in psychiatry actually recommended I go on that, when all this started as opposed to Sertraline but she was not looking after my medication and had no say without overstepping her mark.

 

thx.

[Catwoman]

I remember you are the lady with OCD from the other thread. Right.

 

You might be able to help me with a few questions, please. If I come off sertraline and go back on it a second time, does it work as well?

 

(..)

 

 

Have you ever tried Seroquel or a low-dose antipsychotic to lower your anxiety level and for intrusive thoughts? A therapist who started her career in psychiatry actually recommended I go on that, when all this started as opposed to Sertraline but she was not looking after my medication and had no say without overstepping her mark.

 

thx.

Yes, I am still the lady with the OCD (not your typical OCD though). I talked to a psychiatrist today who wasn't really into the diagnostic codes...and didn't really confirm that I have OCD. Anxiety and obsessing is more likely my problem.

He did advise me to start with sertraline, since I'm still too much in my head overthinking stuff. 
We also talked about quetiapine (Seroquel) as an augment treatment. He said this med can help with stuck thoughts, to loosen things up a little so you can move past these.
I don't know if sertraline and quetiapine are typical combination as sertraline (sometimes) considered a serotonin-dopamine reuptake inhibitor.
And at low doses, quetiapine can be sedating and it's known for weight gain, so I wouldn't look forward to go on it. The pharmacological actions do make sense (it's a dopamine, serotonin, and adrenergic antagonist) to help calm down racing thoughts. It could be something....

As for going on the same SSRI a second time...for me it never worked.
I quit fluvoxamine after 1,5 years (seemed to be in remission) and relapsed a few months after. I tried it again but it didn't affect the unwanted thoughts at all. After 9 weeks switched to escitalopram. It worked wonderfully, but after 6 years my dose was probably too low and I relapsed. Increasing dose wasn't effective, so I've been med-free for about 4,5 months now.

Some people can go on and off the same SSRI for years though and some report that with every time they go on them it's less effective than the first time.
But you'll only find out if you try ;-)

Edited by Catwoman, 02 January 2017 - 04:09 PM.

[Quaker32]

I have heard about quetiapine being used to OCD and intrusive thoughts. That might be a better thing for you, than sertraline by the sounds of it. Have you tired it before?

 

I fear that I am going to be on the med rollercoaster for a while. I hope not. I want to find something and move on with my life. 

 

I feel cognitively dull and just "dead" in my head. I want my Self and Life back.

 

 

[Catwoman]

I guess Seroquel alone could do the trick but sertraline's side effect profile sounds much better to me. And as an augment he saif I could take a low dose only as needed. Never heard that is possible though.

You'll find something that works. I would also recommend to go outdoors from fresh air and excercise if you can. Did you look into any diet and/or lifestyle changes?

Edited by Catwoman, 02 January 2017 - 05:26 PM.