31 replies to this topic

[hnk6]

We are already a group of 9 people, who all want to buy 6-Hydroxynorketamine. It is not yet available "off the shelf", but we found a chemical company, which could synthesize it for us.

We have an offer for 10 grams, but need at least 2 more buyers to meet the price.

 

If you are interested, drop an e-mail at hnk6 (at) tutanota (dot) com with:

1. Your full name (ours will also be disclosed to you)

2. Your country

3. Your disease (depression?)

4. Optional: your profession

 

Why do we want to try 6-HNK?

 

1. Ketamine has been reported to quickly relieve depression in appr 75% or TRD (treatment resistant depression) either at a dosage of 0.5 mg / kg i. v. or sublingual (30% bioavailibility). Literature: There is a great book on Amazon "Ketamine for depression".

2. It has been shown that Ketamine is especially effective in "anxious depression" rather than in the depression without anxiety. This was to the astonishment of the researchers as anxious depression has been shown to react worse to regular SSRI/SNRI and to CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) than depression without anxiety. However, for all anxious depressed, this is good news. Lit: Ionescu et al., "Effect of baseline anxious depression on initial and sustained antidepressant response to ketamine".

3. Recently, the same group from the NIH (!) published an important study in Nature (!!!). In rats, they showed that neither does ketamine lift depression via the NMDA-receptor nor does it lift depression at all. Rather, it is its metabolite (2R, 6R)-hydroxynorketamine, which lifts the depression! Good news: it does that via the AMPA-receptor and does NOT induce dissociation or addiction (at least as the rats are concerned).

Interestingly, there are more data that support that ketamine/NMDAR fails to work against depression: a) esketamine works less than the R-ketamine (because the metabolite 2S,6S-hydroxynoketamine is not as potent as 2R,6R), b) a couple of studies of NMDAR-antagonists have already failed from some pharma companies.

4. Approximately 15% of Ketamine is metabolized into (2R,6R)-Hydroxynorketamine (more in female rats than in males). The oral bioavailibility of HNK is supposedly 50% according to the literature. Thus, I calculate: 0.5 mg/kg of ketamine i.v. equals approximately 80 kg * 0.5 mg/kg = 40 mg of ketamine or 15% of that: 6 mg of HNK. Given orally, 12 mg should be used and if the product contains (2S, 6S) and (2R, 6R), then appr. 24 mg should be taken orally (I guess).

 

Of course, this could be all bogus, but I have the feeling that this may actually work. After many different antidepressants, the only drug to temporarily lift my anxious depression is lorazepam (a benzo), which of course leads to addiction and doesnt work in the long run anyway, but it also works on that GABA/AMPA-receptors.

 

 

HNK6

[Mind_Paralysis]

Have any of you actually tried NSI-189 or Dihexa though? They were both created to, at least partially, rival Ketamine's effect on PTSD-induced depression.

 

I'm not sure how Ketamine stacks up - maybe it's more powerful, but if the theory of neurogenesis holds true, then NSI-189 should theoretically be BETTER (long-term) - depends on the mechanism of your depression, I guess.

 

Though, I suppose Ketamine is actually a safer card - it's got a more known and studied MOA, and the side-effects and long-term effects are far more studied - you would know more what to expect.

 

And finally - have you considered, that perhaps the reason why Ketamine is effective on ANXIOUS depression, is because NMDA-receptors in the hippocampus have been implicated in some forms of Anxiety? (serotonin-hyperactivity is the other)

 

 

Read more about NMDA and anxiety here:
 

Hippocampal NMDA receptors and anxiety: At the interface between cognition and emotion

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2824088/

 

Hippocampal synaptic plasticity, spatial memory and anxiety

http://www.nature.co...bs/nrn3677.html

 

 

HydroxyNorKetamine is a much weaker NMDA-antagonist than regular ketamine - hardly any activity. It does have one OTHER potential reason why Ketamine might be effective on anxious depression: Nicotinic Alpha-7-antagonism.

 

The Alpha-7-receptors in the AMYGDALA is responsible for controlling the strength of many other impulses in and out of the amygdala - malfunctioning circuitry in this part of the brain is suspected to be a part of the pathology of BORDERLINE personality disorder - which is a disorder characterized by uncontrollable emotional response - most Borderliners have a lot more anxiety than regular people.

 

If the Alpha-7-antagonistic effect is what you guys TRULY need - then it's not even HNK you want - it's *DNK* - DE-HydroNorKetamine - a compound which is mostly a highly potent Alpha-7-antagonist - quite possibly the ULTIMATE ANTI-BORDERLINE(! finally!) DRUG!

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...ydronorketamine

 

 

Of course, HNK has this effect, and antidepressant properties too, but I honestly still think DNK is more potent as an anti-anxiety med' than HNK. Just something for you guys to consider.

[Plasticperson]

Interesting i'd love to donate to this but want to check out the legitimacy. Where do I sign up?

[hnk6]

We want to close a deal now, so if you want to participate, please e-mail me to hnk6 (at) tutanota (dot) com

[hnk6]

Again: we now have 17 people on board for a group buy of this drug. If you are interested, please e-mail to hnk6 (at) tutanota (dot) com

[hnk6]

We need  2 more people for this group buy! Pls e-mail to hnk6 (at) tutanota.com

[hnk6]

we are ordering now. anyone more to participate?

[dalack]

Im interested

[Lia-chan]

I'm also interested :3

[Mind_Paralysis]

I'm also interested :3

 

It's been two months, so you probably better try e-mailing them at their adress:

 

hnk6 (at) tutanota.com
 

[DaneV]

Yes it`s best if you drop an email to that address. Although we had some difficulties finding a good supplier, we have now ordered 6HNK at a reliable lab which is about to start synthesis. The downpayment is already paid for, but we are still open for participants to reach the total order amount. The price will be around € 600,- for 500mg.  Definately not cheap, but if this stuff really hold up to it`s promises it should be worth it for many.

 

I hope to receive the compound in the upcoming months and will definitely report my experiences when I will.

[Zibibbo]

News?

[DareDevil]

I may be interested in joining if there is a residual amount that has not yet been purchased. Thanks for letting me know.

 

Should I email this address for info or wait here for a reply?

 

hnk6 (at) tutanota.com

 

Thanks in advance

 

DareDevil

[Mind_Paralysis]

I may be interested in joining if there is a residual amount that has not yet been purchased. Thanks for letting me know.

 

Should I email this address for info or wait here for a reply?

 

hnk6 (at) tutanota.com

 

Thanks in advance

 

DareDevil

 

You should e-mail them immediately - they don't check these threads very often, and since it's been quite some time since the actual group buy, I can see how they might not check them at all, even.
 

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 24 March 2017 - 12:18 PM.

[Zibibbo]

You can mail them.
They will answer not immediately (1-2 weeks)

I'm in contact with them, now

[DareDevil]

OK, I will get in touch with them soon.

 

Has anyone received delivery and tried 6HNK?

 

Cheers,

 

DareDevil

[hnk6]

OK guys, sorry for being slow to answer: We are a group of appr 10 buyers now spread across the U.S. an Europe. All of us suffer from recurring depression and many of us if not all have some academic background searching for help in news and scientific literature. We found a lab and it will take some months to synthesize. Unfortunately, HNK is tricky to make (someone with a solid chemistry background would be great to join...).
We ordered more than we currently need (also because expensive) and we would be happy about more buyers. email me at hnk6@tutanota.com

i am not checking that mail frequently, so just be a little patient. thanks

[long3vity]

I'm really interested in this and i've read about some of it's MoA and benefits for mood-disorders/borderline. I would be grateful if I could participate in this group buy or if someone that already is in the group buy maybe bought too much and has some to spare. I'm in a really bad place right now and maybe this could help me to turn things around in my life

[Mind_Paralysis]

I'm really interested in this and i've read about some of it's MoA and benefits for mood-disorders/borderline. I would be grateful if I could participate in this group buy or if someone that already is in the group buy maybe bought too much and has some to spare. I'm in a really bad place right now and maybe this could help me to turn things around in my life

 

Well, I guess the e-mail the group buy organizer mentions, is your best bet to get a hold of someone whom might have 6-HNK?

 

hnk6@tutanota.com

 

Send them a mail, why dontcha', and ask them if they have any to spare. = )

 

 

Otherwise, I do think it's time that someone tried and make a NEW group buy, and a whole new batch of 6-HNK! And if I wasn't still a wreck, I think I know just the peeps to try and get interested in doing it...

[Zibibbo]

Mail hnk6@tutanota.com.

 

They have already done the purchase but join them. The more you are the lower the price for further shipments.

I encourage someone to start a group on Telegram. 

 

[long3vity]

So has there been any success with this group buy? 

[hnk6]

Yes, it was. However, as far as I know, noone of us tried it yet as after all these months, most of us are in remission...

[long3vity]

Yes, it was. However, as far as I know, noone of us tried it yet as after all these months, most of us are in remission...

What do you mean no one has tried it yet? If most have been in remission still means there's at least one that hasn't and if everyone is in remission and no one really has tried it, may I ask what helped them go into remission? Since these people were willing to pay a pretty large sum for this metabolite which seems very hard to acquire, I'd figure we are talking major depression / treatment resistant depression. So i'm very curious how suddenly everyone is in remission  

[normalizing]

is this still going or its done for??

[samson75]

Would be great to know the experience of those who tried the product.

[Mentha]

Please, if you could tell us a bit more...
Is remission induced by HNK?
I am depressed myself and reading the word "remission" without any explanation generates a lot of hope and expectation.
Thanks.

[Brazzo]

I attended in this gb but can only speak from my experience and in my case it didn't help at all.

I'm not sure about the others

[Mind_Paralysis]

I attended in this gb but can only speak from my experience and in my case it didn't help at all.

I'm not sure about the others

 

Any effects whatsoever? Side-effects?

 

In theory, it should be a powerful ANXIOLYTIC as well, since the nicotinic alpha-7-antagonism would lower signalling from out of the amygdala quite powerfully.

 

Are you CERTAIN that you got the synthesis right?? Did you do third-party testing with NMR? This is a tricky drug to produce so it's even more necessary to be 100% certain of the end results.

[Brazzo]

 

I attended in this gb but can only speak from my experience and in my case it didn't help at all.

I'm not sure about the others

 

Any effects whatsoever? Side-effects?

 

In theory, it should be a powerful ANXIOLYTIC as well, since the nicotinic alpha-7-antagonism would lower signalling from out of the amygdala quite powerfully.

 

Are you CERTAIN that you got the synthesis right?? Did you do third-party testing with NMR? This is a tricky drug to produce so it's even more necessary to be 100% certain of the end results.

 

 

You are right, it is very hard to produce. We had it tested against a hnk sample by tocris (97% purity) and our hnk turned out to have ~ 83% purity.

I did feel some slight anxiety increase for a couple of hours every time I tested it, that was the only effect unfortunately.
 

Edited by Brazzo, 21 September 2017 - 10:37 AM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

 

I attended in this gb but can only speak from my experience and in my case it didn't help at all.

I'm not sure about the others

 

Any effects whatsoever? Side-effects?

 

In theory, it should be a powerful ANXIOLYTIC as well, since the nicotinic alpha-7-antagonism would lower signalling from out of the amygdala quite powerfully.

 

Are you CERTAIN that you got the synthesis right?? Did you do third-party testing with NMR? This is a tricky drug to produce so it's even more necessary to be 100% certain of the end results.

 

 

You are right, it is very hard to produce. We had it tested against a hnk sample by tocris (97% purity) and our hnk turned out to have ~ 83% purity.

I did feel some slight anxiety increase for a couple of hours every time I tested it, that was the only effect unfortunately.
 

 

 

That's... pretty bad purity, mate. You should have demanded at least a 90% purity. Did you find out what the impurities were, btw? Those compounds could actually effect the efficacy of the drug, depending on what they are.

 

Still, with a bit of luck you should have felt SOME of the antidepressant effects, at least...
 

It would be interesting to see your reaction to regular ketamine... or to one of its enantiomers, to be accurate! I believe one of the enantiomers (arketamine? not sure...) is the one which turns into HydroxyNorKetamine. If regular Ketamine doesn't affect you either, there's something fishy with that there brain of yours... then your depression is obviously not related to low BDNF and loss of white-matter.

 

It should be noted... apparently TYPICAL depression, the classic one, is the one which is related to neuroplasticity and loss of brain-cells, while ATypical depression is related to inflammatory states, and other neurotransmitters (dopamine seems more involved) - it's also related to weight-gain, so if you have that, then that might be an indicator that you're an Atypical depressed patient, and not a typical one. Atypically depressed patients also don't have the same kind of cognitive issues which regular depressed patients have - this is logical, if typical depression is connected to a mild type of brain-damage and loss of neurons, and Atypical is NOT.

 

Ketamine is UNlikely to have any effect on Atypical Depression, it should be noted. AMPA-agonism leading to BDNF cannot effect something which is controlled by other processes.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Btw, small note... most neurogenic compounds, which 6-HNK should be, since it should be a powerful BDNF-promoter, actually cause anxiety - slight or intense. (in me, it's pretty intense - I can't tolerate the normal dosages of NSI-189 for instance)

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 21 September 2017 - 03:55 PM.