549 replies to this topic

[EfeitoPlacebo]

He took vorinostat saturday (06/01/17) and yesterday (10/01/17). 

I don´t think it is a problem.

 

 

Received my order Saturday. Took it and didn't feel anything that much, so placed it as placebo. Took a bit more yesterday and find it's very overwhelming. I feel to think a lot more on it, as my brain feels pressurized as to say. I am going to continue to see what results I get. Find I think or my brain feels very active. Does anyone else get this? And what am I suppose to notice when I'm on it, do the effects take time to notice long-term as in do they change?

 

Thanks,

Kieran 

 

Read tolerant's post above. For the love of christ DO NOT continue to use vorinostat daily, you're going to make yourself sick. Frankly, if you can't follow basic safety protocols for this substance you shouldn't be using it.

 

 

Edited by EfeitoPlacebo, 11 January 2017 - 08:23 PM.

[KieranA001]

 

Received my order Saturday. Took it and didn't feel anything that much, so placed it as placebo. Took a bit more yesterday and find it's very overwhelming. I feel to think a lot more on it, as my brain feels pressurized as to say. I am going to continue to see what results I get. Find I think or my brain feels very active. Does anyone else get this? And what am I suppose to notice when I'm on it, do the effects take time to notice long-term as in do they change?

 

Thanks,

Kieran 

 

Read tolerant's post above. For the love of christ DO NOT continue to use vorinostat daily, you're going to make yourself sick. Frankly, if you can't follow basic safety protocols for this substance you shouldn't be using it.

 

 

I took vorinostat 3 days apart which is fine seen as I took 15mg first time... Read my post properly next time.
 

[Donald Trumpet]

Received my vorinostat, thanks!

[Muad'Dib]

What are the possible side effects of vorinostat if used daily?

[monowav]

Received my vorinostat, thanks!

Was yours labeled as piracetam?

[LiveWell]

Was yours labeled as piracetam?

It was. It should have come with a secondary label under the packet so you can relabel it yourself. It's a precaution for getting it through customs as, at least here in the U.S., you need a script to get it.

[Donald Trumpet]

 

Received my vorinostat, thanks!

Was yours labeled as piracetam?

 

Yes. 

[swolo]

I've taken it a few times and thus far, experiences have been positive. Nothing blinded, so everything could be placebo of course. All doses held under my tongue for 15-25 minutes, swishing it around.

 

Dose 1 of ~30 mg:

 

Mildly stimulating feeling. I was much more talkative, felt sort of like I was a kid again. I was at the taco place and started talking about the weather to the cashier, which I never do. I felt myself cracking smiles out of nowhere.

 

Dose 2 of 45 mg, 6 days after dose 1:

Very faint effects, could barely notice anything, seemed greatly attenuated from dose 1. Does tolerance build this quickly? Also I’ve been taking tianeptine off and on, wonder if that could be co-tolerant.

 

Dose 3 of 88 mg, 2 days after dose 2:

 

Closer feeling to dose 1. Mildly uplifting feeling. Was overall much more talkative. I had a job interview and would elaborate on my answers more than I normally do, and got the interviewer to laugh a few times. My previous job interview a week earlier I barely spoke to complete the answers, this time I just felt at ease. Had to work up the guts to text some colleagues about being references. The enormous feeling of dread I used to have was greatly diminished, though I suspect this to be mostly placebo. I was smiling just randomly, such that an old lady at the grocery randomly said hello to me (this has never happened before).

 

Dose 3 was yesterday, and I feel a slight afterglow. Mellower than my normal state of absolute misery from the past ten years.

 

 

So, pretty happy with the effects. Concerned about tolerance and might only take it after 3 days to return to zero.

Edited by swolo, 12 January 2017 - 06:31 PM.

[fntms]

Received mine in a small envelope, in a plastic pouch with 'vorinostat' on it.

[Tom Lodge]

Took my first dose today at 20mg under the tounge in the morning before work/breakfast. Effects i noticed: Body temperature increase, certainly not uncomfortable however unlike Fasoracetam, jeez that was just intense burning. Brain Fog was an issue. Putting the wrong boxes on pallet after scanning/forget to fill paperwork at times. Laughing more but in a manaic way, bit more aggression as well. Think the jury is out on this one. Hopefully the effects progress more once the body adjusts to it.

[monowav]

Took my first dose today at 20mg under the tounge in the morning before work/breakfast. Effects i noticed: Body temperature increase, certainly not uncomfortable however unlike Fasoracetam, jeez that was just intense burning. Brain Fog was an issue. Putting the wrong boxes on pallet after scanning/forget to fill paperwork at times. Laughing more but in a manaic way, bit more aggression as well. Think the jury is out on this one. Hopefully the effects progress more once the body adjusts to it.

maybe sublingual isn't right. So far haven't heard of any reports of anyone trying that method. That could be the problem.

[InternetRobert]

Sublingual is how I used it and that worked, saw comments about it some other place on this forum about that and that is why I tried it that way. You aren't going to notice a difference most likely unless you do, or try to think about things that normally cause a fear response.

[Tom Lodge]

If took orally what method? Just wash down with water i guess?

[musicman4534]

Heeeeeyyyy everybody! Yeah that's not piracetam it's vorinostat... I took this idea from strangelove to try to disguise it a bit incase customs went snooping or something. Anyway, I've been moving the past ten days and have been quite busy. I haven't had much time to experiment with vorinostat the past ten days, but I was a bit before I in December.

 

The only negative side-effect I've gotten normal side-effects-wise is a headache if I take a high dose. This would probably get worse if you take too high a dose or take it too many days in a row. It's good to see people already trying it and seeing how it affects them. In summary, I've found vorinostat to be quite powerful in that it allows me to change my behavior at the drop of a hat, like it has gotten rid of all habits, and allows me to act however I'd like. This is then strongly recorded so that the new habits remain after the vorinostat session. This is just like in the studies. The important thing here is that vorinostat gets rid of old habits, so work must be done, one must be conscious to create good habits to replace them. Like neuralis was saying in the CL-994 thread, vorinostat makes the room and gives you the power to do work on yourself. So, the way I see us using vorinostat the best is to do it in situations where you can work on yourself a bit. If you have social anxiety, just take it before you go to the grocery store one day. You will see, at least in my experience, that the vorinostat allows you the room to let go of your old anxiety feelings and that all of a sudden you have the room to act however you want. This, for me, has even been daunting in some situations because I identified with the anxiety as who I was, so when it was gone and I had complete choice I didn't know at first was to replace it with. This is where multiple vorinostat sessions comes into play. Doing two vorinostat sessions per week, for example, would let you really work at yourself and see what kind of person you'd like to be. Take notes on what fears you felt have disappeared during a sessions, write about who you want to be, what you want to do, what you want to bring about instead of the fear/anxiety. I wouldn't take it in a situation right away where you'll know you'll feel overwhelmed... start easy, work on yourself, and work up to more significant situations. A session could also be spent meditating in the safety of your own home on more complex issues/fears where you picture your optimal self navigating these situations. The vorinostat will help this stick for when you are out in the world, versus it just disappearing when you come out of the meditation.

 

That was of course geared toward using vorinostat for social anxiety/fear issues. I am about to start a couple classes this week, and I'm hoping to test vorinostat's use for learning and memory! I am very optimistic, for the studies have shown vorinostat could be a powerful tool in this realm.

 

Anywho, You guys seem to have it right, not taking it every day and starting low around 15 or 25 milligrams. I like 50mg personally.

 

-Evan

[musicman4534]

From a private message:

I bought some Vorinostat from you in the group buy and I have a few questions about how best to use it.
 
What is the route of administration? Do you put it into capsules, or take it sublingually, or something else?
 
If I'm planning to use it mainly for memory enhancement as opposed to fear extinction, does what you wrote in the thread still apply? Take it about 30 minutes before work and work for up to 4 hours?

Sublingual should increase absorption. Strangelove has mentioned stronger effects from sublingual. Personally, I don't like to keep the higher concentration of vorinostat in my mouth for too long, maybe a minute at most, so I just put the powder in my mouth, swish it about for a little while then swallow it with some water.

 

Yeah I'm planning on using it for memory soon, and I'm thinking taking it a half hour before studying/learning would work best. I feel it lasts a few hours.

 

Evan

[warmerdam]

Evan, thanks again for organizing this group buy.

 

Would you, or anybody else reading this, expect any unusual/undesired interaction of vorinostat with other substances?

Specifically, would it be safe in your opinion to take vorinostat along with any of these:
Piracetam
Choline
Carnosine
NGF
Alcohol
THC
LSD microdose

Thank you in advance to anyone who can share some information or provide any pointer.
 

Edited by warmerdam, 17 January 2017 - 04:23 PM.

[LiveWell]

@Warmerdam, I take 250 mg of Citicoline every day. And I've taken Vorinostat once so far. Going to take it again this afternoon also. So far, I haven't had a negative reaction from it.
 
And @neuralis had this (http://www.longecity...problems/page-8) to say about using it with THC. I also plan to do this later.
 

I would like to share another experience with you which had profound repercussions for me. It happened after I smoked weed for the first time after taking a break for 6 months. It put me into a state of pure anxiety. It's not possible for me to put it into words how awful I felt. Just terrible anxiety. I had to take a trip outside in order to take care of something. Just seeing another person at a distance was enough to make me panic. When I had to pass someone, it got so bad, I just dissociated. My body became like a robot I was controlling using a remote control. Really nasty place to be. I was aware how this was all something from the past rushing to the surface and the next day I started thinking whether this kind of anxiety wouldn't be something vorinostat could take care of. Everything I had read about it and my own experiences pointed to to yes. Yet it didn't seem possible, this anxiety was too powerful. I was really afraid to test it out, I wasn't sure I could cope with the disappointment. One week later I decided to give it a go. I dosed 50mg sublingually and snorted another 50 mg. Half an hour later I smoked some weed. I just couldn't believe when there was no anxiety. Just me, being a little stoned, without a trace of anxiety. I had no idea that it was even possible to feel this kind of freedom within myself. This time I had to also take the same kind of trip outside I had done the week before. I saw people and I couldn't care less that they were there. They we're just going on about their own business, there was no reason why that should in any way effect me. I was awestruck by that difference to the point I couldn't help but shed a few tears, right there on the street, for all the times I used to feel so bad. I didn't think this kind of change was ever possible.
 
This experience changed something at a deep level in me. I could notice it in my internal dialogue as well as my interactions with others. Yet I wasn't quite able to put my finger on it. Only  few weeks later when I happened to do something humiliating I realised what had happened. My normal reaction at this situation would've been to relentlessly shame myself, but I was surprised to see I had automatically jumped on being compassionate to myself instead. Then it dawned on me. I used to be extremely ashamed of being me, of having all these problems. And all that shame was gone. A part of me had been healed.
 
After this I've had other similar profoundly healing experiences. In a very short time I've gone from experiencing myself as something coarse and harsh to something as soft as cotton wool. It is possible I would've gotten here on my own, but with the help of Vorinostat I've healed at a rate beyond any of my dreams.

[nicklesprout]

am i the only one that is concerned with long term unwanted genetic changes that could result from this?  i'd like to continue trialling it, but still a little too nervous about what could happen as a result of enhanced dna transcription...

 

here's just an example of something i came across;

 

"Changes in cardiac Nav1.5 expression, function, and acetylation by pan-histone deacetylase inhibitors."  https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/27638876

 

Abstract

Histone deacetylase (HDAC) inhibitors are small molecule anticancer therapeutics that exhibit limiting cardiotoxicities including QT interval prolongation and life-threatening cardiac arrhythmias. Because the molecular mechanisms for HDAC inhibitor-induced cardiotoxicity are poorly understood, we performed whole cell patch voltage-clamp experiments to measure cardiac sodium currents (INa) from wild-type neonatal mouse ventricular or human-induced pluripotent stem cell-derived cardiomyocytes treated with trichostatin A (TSA), vorinostat (VOR), or romidepsin (FK228). All three pan-HDAC inhibitors dose dependently decreased peak INa density and shifted the voltage activation curve 3- to 8-mV positive. Increases in late INa were not observed despite a moderate slowing of the inactivation rate at low activating potentials (<-40 mV). Scn5a mRNA levels were not significantly altered but NaV1.5 protein levels were significantly reduced. Immunoprecipitation with anti-NaV1.5 and Western blotting with anti-acetyl-lysine antibodies indicated that NaV1.5 acetylation is increased in vivo after HDAC inhibition. FK228 inhibited total cardiac HDAC activity with two apparent IC50s of 5 nM and 1.75 μM, consistent with previous findings with TSA and VOR. FK228 also decreased ventricular gap junction conductance (gj), again consistent with previous findings. We conclude that pan-HDAC inhibition reduces cardiac INa density and NaV1.5 protein levels without affecting late INa amplitude and, thus, probably does not contribute to the reported QT interval prolongation and arrhythmias associated with pan-HDAC inhibitor therapies. Conversely, reductions in gj may enhance the occurrence of triggered activity by limiting electrotonic inhibition and, combined with reduced INa, slow myocardial conduction and increase vulnerability to reentrant arrhythmias.

 

thoughts anyone?

 

[Isak2044]

Got the Vorinostat, thanks musicman! Haven't tried it out yet, because I'm kinda worried about if you need to be in a perfectly good state of mind when you take it. For example, not sleep deprived, not high on caffeine,etc. Would be nice if you could bring some light to possible interactions between Vorinostat and other drugs/supplements.

[Junk Master]

Fascinating stuff!  Imagine taking it before working with a technique coach in any sport.  Imagine taking it and being able to work through past issues in your golf swing, or your piano playing, guitar?

 

Personally, I could envision taking a dose before a perfect evening of fly fishing, when I knew all the conditions were right, and I was spot on with my casting and hook set.

 

Or right before dropping into a perfect tube on the North Shore.

 

My only concern in researching with my package is making sure I'm not sleep deprived, or unusually anxious.

 

Like Evan, I would like to work on my social anxiety; but, what if you've just taken a dose and find out you've walked into a surprise birthday party, filled with a bunch of people you really wish hadn't come?!  

[LiveWell]

Or right before dropping into a perfect tube on the North Shore.

Yes. 100 x Yes!

[EfeitoPlacebo]

How much is a high dose? How much did you take when you got a headache?

The only negative side-effect I've gotten normal side-effects-wise is a headache if I take a high dose. This would probably get worse if you take too high a dose or take it too many days in a row.

Anywho, You guys seem to have it right, not taking it every day and starting low around 15 or 25 milligrams. I like 50mg personally.

-Evan

[monowav]

 

am i the only one that is concerned with long term unwanted genetic changes that could result from this?  i'd like to continue trialling it, but still a little too nervous about what could happen as a result of enhanced dna transcription...

 

here's just an example of something i came across;

 

"Changes in cardiac Nav1.5 expression, function, and acetylation by pan-histone deacetylase inhibitors."  https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/27638876

 

Abstract

Histone deacetylase (HDAC) inhibitors are small molecule anticancer therapeutics that exhibit limiting cardiotoxicities including QT interval prolongation and life-threatening cardiac arrhythmias. Because the molecular mechanisms for HDAC inhibitor-induced cardiotoxicity are poorly understood, we performed whole cell patch voltage-clamp experiments to measure cardiac sodium currents (INa) from wild-type neonatal mouse ventricular or human-induced pluripotent stem cell-derived cardiomyocytes treated with trichostatin A (TSA), vorinostat (VOR), or romidepsin (FK228). All three pan-HDAC inhibitors dose dependently decreased peak INa density and shifted the voltage activation curve 3- to 8-mV positive. Increases in late INa were not observed despite a moderate slowing of the inactivation rate at low activating potentials (<-40 mV). Scn5a mRNA levels were not significantly altered but NaV1.5 protein levels were significantly reduced. Immunoprecipitation with anti-NaV1.5 and Western blotting with anti-acetyl-lysine antibodies indicated that NaV1.5 acetylation is increased in vivo after HDAC inhibition. FK228 inhibited total cardiac HDAC activity with two apparent IC50s of 5 nM and 1.75 μM, consistent with previous findings with TSA and VOR. FK228 also decreased ventricular gap junction conductance (gj), again consistent with previous findings. We conclude that pan-HDAC inhibition reduces cardiac INa density and NaV1.5 protein levels without affecting late INa amplitude and, thus, probably does not contribute to the reported QT interval prolongation and arrhythmias associated with pan-HDAC inhibitor therapies. Conversely, reductions in gj may enhance the occurrence of triggered activity by limiting electrotonic inhibition and, combined with reduced INa, slow myocardial conduction and increase vulnerability to reentrant arrhythmias.

 

thoughts anyone?

 

 

yeah this doesn't sound too fun. I guess don't do this if you have afib or long qt syndrome.

[Water Buffalo]

Fascinating stuff!  Imagine taking it before working with a technique coach in any sport.  Imagine taking it and being able to work through past issues in your golf swing, or your piano playing, guitar?

 

Personally, I could envision taking a dose before a perfect evening of fly fishing, when I knew all the conditions were right, and I was spot on with my casting and hook set.

 

Or right before dropping into a perfect tube on the North Shore.

 

My only concern in researching with my package is making sure I'm not sleep deprived, or unusually anxious.

 

Like Evan, I would like to work on my social anxiety; but, what if you've just taken a dose and find out you've walked into a surprise birthday party, filled with a bunch of people you really wish hadn't come?!  

You could always take some propranolol beforehand to prevent the adrenal/fear response like StevesPetRat did with his poker troubles.

http://www.longecity...problems/page-7

 

It has even been used with some success as a solo aid to fear extinction.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4820039/

 

Some phenibut might also help the situation.

Edited by Water Buffalo, 23 January 2017 - 07:26 AM.

[Major Legend]

This seems like it could have safety concerns? - Has anyone done research into potential causes for concern? I think its interesting if it worked.

 

Edit: I just read through the thread and it seems some of the concerns are addressed. I think people should report any sign of worrying side effects immediately, these drugs could affect a whole lot more than just memories.

Edited by Major Legend, 23 January 2017 - 09:12 AM.

[Major Legend]

Just curious has anyone tried this for the fear of successful/high value/beautiful people - some of us had experiences (yeah me) getting bullied by the cool people in school for years and it never really goes away.

 

I wonder what situations would you put yourself after taking Vorinostat as a grocery store is not something I am afraid of, but a big party with lots of people I envy is something I am afraid of, but it's also something that can go either good or bad.

 

If you take it do you just try to remember the situations you are afraid of, or do you dive in head first into the trigger...I'm not sure I get it at this point - short of trying it myself, also how do you change a habit, if you can only do this once or twice a week, when habits tend to be daily? 

Like I read about meditation on Vorinostat, it sounds to me that what you really want is to have a really good experience after taking it in the few hour window that overwrites your previous bad experience...that can be a little hard to hit since "good experience" socially can be a hit or miss, sometimes completely due to factors out of control (e.g. just happen to talk to a douchebag ).

^ So to me if you want to have a good experience, that is pretty much to take Oxytocin Nasal Spray and some anxiolytics like Propranolol WITH Vorinostat, BUT I also read that Vorinostat interacts with other drugs??

 

Need to know more!!

 

Also there may be a difference between being neutral about something versus being fearless. With fearless being the opposite of fear, and taking action such as being gregarious, or actively taking more risks than usual. (which is desirable in most cases).

 

 

 

Edited by Major Legend, 23 January 2017 - 10:04 AM.

[Junk Master]

So, a few things about the afib concerns:

 

 I know Caucasians have a higher risk than other ethnic groups and the risk increases over the age of 40.  I believe the rate of incidence increases exponentially with age and more in men than women.

 

Endurance athletes are between 2 and 10 times more likely to have afib.  https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2638655/

 

Since I am a Caucasian about to turn 50 and run a marathon, plus have a history of borderline hypertension despite a lifetime of exercise, I'm wondering how concerned I should be about vorinostat.

 

Thus was thinking about a 23andMe genetic test before embarking on any extended research.

 

Found this study about variations in predicted risk among commercial tests--

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3883880/

 

Conclusion is 23andMe did have limited predictive values for Afib.  Since I have been wanting 23andMe test for a while, I think this might be the justification I was looking for.  

Before this I was concerned I would obsess about both the 23andMe findings and their true predictive value...lol.

 

 

[Murali Rao]

Hi,  I would like to get 2g of Vorinostat. Pls PM me with details. Thanks !

[Tom Lodge]

I've taken up to 50mg and it just doesn't do anything bar give me a flushed feeling and bloodshot eyes. Also it doesn't take away fear/ still have the same worries and thought processes. Sadly i fear it doesn't work for my Genetics. Will be hit and miss for some.

[monowav]

I've taken up to 50mg and it just doesn't do anything bar give me a flushed feeling and bloodshot eyes. Also it doesn't take away fear/ still have the same worries and thought processes. Sadly i fear it doesn't work for my Genetics. Will be hit and miss for some.

Did you buy from this group buy or strangelove? This group buy wasn't tested so it may not be vorinostat and you could be taking something toxic. Just be weary of that and take precaution. Stay safe!