20 replies to this topic

[ThreeKings12341]

Male 25

 

Symptoms

 

main symptom: EMOTIONAL BLUNTING :( - ill write more to that after a few symptoms.

 

ocb: (thinking, but got better a bit, but i am  a perfectionist in some ways. in schooldays my bag had to be paralled next to my chair, but i dont have that a´nymore - )

 

body dysmophobic disorder ( developed when i was 16, comments from school mates in combination with my obsessive thinking developed bdd, since then i had nosesurgerys, crying a lot); wearing glasses in public makes my bdd completely away

 

anhedonia: the only times i feel pleasure  is reading about ios- gaming news, or pc games , or playing them but everything else in life is extremly low in feeling pleasure. - if i do - its very dulled

 

when i was 6 , parents broke up and i developed ocb, and cried a lot, with 16 i developed body dymophic disorder and cried also again a lot  - so that maybe shut down my emotions?, also i developed eppstein bar virus - pfeifisches drüsen fieber with 16.....

 

EMOTIONAIL BLUNTING:  when i cry its only from my head (tears) without emotions, only time i cried with emotios for 7 minutes was when i  realised my cat died and it had gone for a loooooong sleep (was watching how doc gave injection). i can laugh reaaaally lot but its not combined with any activity in my chest or stomach.. no emotions . agressive i can get very easy in public if somebody does me wrong.

i cannot feel love at all (had several girlfirends, and didnt feel it), family i dont feel it , 2 no one....

when reading about new cure solutions i can feel euphoria and exitement

 

since im 6 i byte off my finger skin and they bleed, but mostly dont hurt.. but not always bleed, i just eat the top skin if possible. --> Dermatophagia

 

i cant concentrate- watching movies , series, i drift oof eaaaasily, i can only listen if somethings really interesting, with people the same

 

no sexdrive , also my errections are only like 60 -80%

 

middle depression.

 

 

 

diet

glutenfree

fructosefree

no alcohol for 9 moths

no nicotine for 9 motnhs

no porn since doing it excessivly for dopamine feelings

 

 

drugs:

 

nicotine:

age 21-24

gave me dopamine boost "kinda euphoric, or happy feelings which i felt  (not dulled) when taking puffs- in the morning even better, made me less anhedonic in someways

 

nicotine + nac age:24

VERY EUPHORIC , i felt like cured, couldnt feel love or something, but reallly euphoric and antidepressant feeling, hypomania.....

 

 

alcohol

during drinking obsessive thinking, depressive, but  THE DAY AFTER BINGEDRINKING, i felt NEARLY ALL EMOTIONS, every time i binge drinked i felt emotions the day after

 

 

weed(over 150 times i smoked in life)

paranoia and obsessive thinking and  , but still kept doing it since laughing felt nice if i laughed, but emotional deatachment was evern worse when not laughing but when i could feel emtions while laghing

 

 

magic mushrooms(tdid it  wice)

WOW very positive vibes, chiildhood emotions, devitiely more emotionns

 

 

venlaflaxine

zombie like, more depressed

 

 

abilify

dont know

 

 

ciplralex

zombie like state, more depressed

 

 

gladem

zombie like sate, more depressed

 

 

deanxit

didnt notice anything

 

 

pregabalin

sleeping better, emotins still dulled

 

 

omega 3

more positive, i feel more well in my living room  but still dulled emotions

 

 

paroxat

lethargic, zombie state, compulsive thinking was even worse with this drug; depressed

 

 

tritico

lethargic

 

 

5htp

made symptoms also worse

 

 

 

coffee

more energy, and bit euphoric

 

 

black tee

same

 

 

sport

i sprint every day now for 4 months, i feel more easyness after sport but not really more emotions, just more positive..

 

 

 

sicne 9 months i stoped alchol, coffee, nictone,  eat veeeery healthy (my gut docotor helps me for that) - i know there is an gut - brain axis...

 

 

 

this week my doc want s to ´ty wellbutrin one me, and im thinking of neurofeedback? is that any good for emotional blunting?

 

PLS PEOPLE, i neeeeeed your help, i need 2 see the day when i can spread out lvoe too the whorld like i just 2, and want to feel deep emotions hug my family, and be very glad that i have them, and friends

 

 

pls :(

 

[gamesguru]

The emotional blunting and dullness is generally paired with a flattened affect (I'm assuming you also have that), and all related to dopamine and glutamate problems.  Red ginseng attaches the D2 presynpatic receptor, and turmeric inhibits prefrontal glutamate release.  Taken together, these two humble roots can go a long way in restoring a sense of normalcy to your disturbed life.

[Junk Master]

All this talk of various medications.

 

What is your normal day like?

 

What passions have you ever had?

 

Dreams?

 

What is the fantasy life you envision for yourself?

 

 

[Dichotohmy]

All this talk of various medications.

What is your normal day like?

What passions have you ever had?

Dreams?

What is the fantasy life you envision for yourself?

These things are important questions, but they are little more than subtle factors and not solutions when one has significant neurophysical abnormalities or brain disorder as it sounds like the OP does.

[Blackkzeus]

All this talk of various medications.

What is your normal day like?

What passions have you ever had?

Dreams?

What is the fantasy life you envision for yourself?

These things are important questions, but they are little more than subtle factors and not solutions when one has significant neurophysical abnormalities or brain disorder as it sounds like the OP does.

How might the OP have neurophysical abnormalities? I didn't think apathy, anhedonia / depression was caused by an actual physical defect in the brain besides a smaller hippocampus. I thought it was mostly a down-regulation issue of certain receptors and an over expression of cortisol, sertonin and other stress hormones.

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

Well, I suffer from apathy, anhedonia and general emotional numbnes and latest MRI showed neurophysical abnormalities. Enlarged ventricles, enlarged prefrontal cortex fluid space (not sure if I name it correctly) and deficits in cerebellum. Currently waiting for hospitilization in february. The MRI scan was done in may. CT from January 2015 showed nothing abnormal.

[Blackkzeus]

Well, I suffer from apathy, anhedonia and general emotional numbnes and latest MRI showed neurophysical abnormalities. Enlarged ventricles, enlarged prefrontal cortex fluid space (not sure if I name it correctly) and deficits in cerebellum. Currently waiting for hospitilization in february. The MRI scan was done in may. CT from January 2015 showed nothing abnormal.

 

 

How did your anhedonia and apathy come about? 

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

When I was 15 I've been in very emotional moment of my life. Everything was almost perfect. But I felt that something is happening to me and I had no clue what. My energy levels dropped a little, I started to develop apathy. Then, 1 year from beginning of first symptoms I smoked weed. That was 3rd time I smoked it I think. I developed derealization/depersonalization from it, almost 2 weeks of constant anxiety which ended with panic attack. I went to the ER, they gave me relanium which as far as I can remember didn't worked. I stayed under observation. After the first night I woke up completely numb and it didn't ended to this day (I'm almost 21).

[Oskar Q-NRG]

Stuff that have been working for my mood and energy:

1) NAD+ boost using sauna, could temperature (being outside in the winter or alternating cold and hot water in the shower), light organic coffee+ fructose from honey (liberal quantities spread on rice caces) or taking nicotineamide riboside (works for a week or few, then probably some cofactor for NAD synthesis runs out in cells)

2) Endorphines - kundalini yoga, sauna, hot and cold alternating showers work well but effect dosen't last too long obviously. Trying to get some naltrexon soon to make LDN for prolonged effect.

3) Reducing prolactine. As you mentioned dopamine has worked well for you and so I suspect that ther might be high levels of prolactine involved which activates kappa opioid receptors which in turne causes dysphoria and inability to feel positive emotions. Dopamine inhibits production of prolactine and that in turn reduces kappa opioid raeceptor activation and better mood should follow.

4) Tianeptine - gives slight dopamine boost and binds to mu and delta opioid receptors and there are some other mechanisms as well that should help you with feeling ok again. I'd try this for start and to if you need to have higher dopa levels than tianeptine itself provides then maybe some 200-300mcg of rasagiline would stack well with it (at least thats what I occasionally do).

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

Stuff that have been working for my mood and energy:

1) NAD+ boost using sauna, could temperature (being outside in the winter or alternating cold and hot water in the shower), light organic coffee+ fructose from honey (liberal quantities spread on rice caces) or taking nicotineamide riboside (works for a week or few, then probably some cofactor for NAD synthesis runs out in cells)

2) Endorphines - kundalini yoga, sauna, hot and cold alternating showers work well but effect dosen't last too long obviously. Trying to get some naltrexon soon to make LDN for prolonged effect.

3) Reducing prolactine. As you mentioned dopamine has worked well for you and so I suspect that ther might be high levels of prolactine involved which activates kappa opioid receptors which in turne causes dysphoria and inability to feel positive emotions. Dopamine inhibits production of prolactine and that in turn reduces kappa opioid raeceptor activation and better mood should follow.

4) Tianeptine - gives slight dopamine boost and binds to mu and delta opioid receptors and there are some other mechanisms as well that should help you with feeling ok again. I'd try this for start and to if you need to have higher dopa levels than tianeptine itself provides then maybe some 200-300mcg of rasagiline would stack well with it (at least thats what I occasionally do).

 

Huh. Mine prolactine level is very high. And I react to dopamine. MPH and EPH, besides the comedown, was really helpful for apathy/anhedonia. 

Edited by MichaelTheAnhedonic, 24 November 2016 - 08:54 AM.

[Junk Master]

I agree 100% with Dichotomy.  I had no idea Michael had neurophysical abnormalities and is awaiting hospitalization!

 

I don't have any experience with high prolactin, but I do know that bodybuilders taking certain steroids (deca/tren) that raise prolactin often take Dostinex   (cabergoline) to lower it.

 

Therefore, it's available a hundreds of peptide sites that sell grey market "ancillaries" to bodybuilders.  The trick is to find a legitimate source, as it's often faked.  I don't feel comfortable recommending one as I've never purchased it, however, if you ask a few questions on bodybuilding sites and start to get the same sites named, that's usually a decent sign.  

 

Of course, the problem is, many of these sites start out selling legit products then start scamming.

 

In your case, you should be able to talk to a doctor and get a prescription for Dostinex, I would imagine.

 

 

[psychejunkie]

too much Dopamine would make Blunt Emotions and Mental-OCD too

[ThreeKings12341]

All this talk of various medications.

 

What is your normal day like?

 

What passions have you ever had?

 

Dreams?

 

What is the fantasy life you envision for yourself?

 

i wake up, training, university, eating food in between,  studying, meet family, friends

music, computer games

not lucid any more so i dont know

feeling emotions again and spreading out to family frreinds and girlfriend

 

too much Dopamine would make Blunt Emotions and Mental-OCD too

 

so what would help for that if i had 2 much dopamine?, cant dopamine deficiecy also produce emotional blunting?

[elfanjo]

We are all different, especially when it comes to emotions, don't try to compare yourself to others too much.
That being said, to feel emotional blunting means you were feeling emotions in the first place. Something changed.
I think what you called mild depression in your first post could actually be severe depression. This needs to be taken care of.
Do you have sleep disorders?

[umop 3pisdn]

The only direct solution might be to investigate your temperament. An affective condition like that could be caused by a lot of things, and unless you identify the psychological cause, you might just wind up treating the symptoms, which is always an unsatisfying strategy because the corrections you apply never take for very long. Like you wind up feeling better inside your hole for a while, instead of actually climbing your way out of it.

 

For me, I tend to become emotionally blunt or dull when I'm narcotizing my emotions. Everyone ignores their feelings to some extent, but there can be a runaway effect where the more challenging a feeling is, the more you try to clamp down on it (because that's the strategy you've always used), and then before long you're not even feeling positive emotions either, because dulling or numbing one emotion leads you to dull or numb all of the others.

 

In that case, a solution might be to cultivate dispassion, which is different from apathy. Dispassion is something set into a more healthy relation with difficult emotions, instead of ignoring them we develop a non-reactivity or sense of non-desperation in response to them (not clinging to them, or rejecting them). It might seem paradoxical, but I think dispassion is at the root of all positive emotions, because without it it's like we're lost at sea. Like we can have a lot of energy, but without dispassion we just experience it as anxiety or fear. Dispassion puts us at ease with the state of things.

 

If you think it might be resulting from a kind of apathy and resentment, cultivate goodwill towards yourself and others. Goodwill takes a tremendous amount of effort to produce, but it teaches you how to produce positive or prosocial emotions, and to cut through indolence or laziness.

 

Or if it's depression or worry, you can try cultivating joy.

 

Or agitation, then try developing calm, etc, etc.

 

Basically, different emotional disturbances have different 'antidotes'. On some level they all have a kind of interdependent causality (dispassion leads to goodwill leads to joy, etc), but finding the root of discontent in your temperament can stop the whole chain right where it begins. Unless your problem is actually a thoroughly physiological one (like chronic fatigue, if that's a good example of a more biological problem), I'd likely assume that it's psychological or temperamental in origin. Drugs can certainly help with that, but they're more likely to just treat the symptoms, and they function as more of a supplement than a main course of treatment imo.

Edited by umop 3pisdn, 27 November 2016 - 09:20 PM.

[ThreeKings12341]

We are all different, especially when it comes to emotions, don't try to compare yourself to others too much.
That being said, to feel emotional blunting means you were feeling emotions in the first place. Something changed.
I think what you called mild depression in your first post could actually be severe depression. This needs to be taken care of.
Do you have sleep disorders?

 

hmm but i really dont feel depressed, just cant feel real emotions, extremely blunted, just feel well, but cant produce emotions... i sleep like a baby , amazing to be honest, used to have obsessive thoughts before sleeping, but now there arent any...

 

The only direct solution might be to investigate your temperament. An affective condition like that could be caused by a lot of things, and unless you identify the psychological cause, you might just wind up treating the symptoms, which is always an unsatisfying strategy because the corrections you apply never take for very long. Like you wind up feeling better inside your hole for a while, instead of actually climbing your way out of it.

 

For me, I tend to become emotionally blunt or dull when I'm narcotizing my emotions. Everyone ignores their feelings to some extent, but there can be a runaway effect where the more challenging a feeling is, the more you try to clamp down on it (because that's the strategy you've always used), and then before long you're not even feeling positive emotions either, because dulling or numbing one emotion leads you to dull or numb all of the others.

 

In that case, a solution might be to cultivate dispassion, which is different from apathy. Dispassion is something set into a more healthy relation with difficult emotions, instead of ignoring them we develop a non-reactivity or sense of non-desperation in response to them (not clinging to them, or rejecting them). It might seem paradoxical, but I think dispassion is at the root of all positive emotions, because without it it's like we're lost at sea. Like we can have a lot of energy, but without dispassion we just experience it as anxiety or fear. Dispassion puts us at ease with the state of things.

 

If you think it might be resulting from a kind of apathy and resentment, cultivate goodwill towards yourself and others. Goodwill takes a tremendous amount of effort to produce, but it teaches you how to produce positive or prosocial emotions, and to cut through indolence or laziness.

 

Or if it's depression or worry, you can try cultivating joy.

 

Or agitation, then try developing calm, etc, etc.

 

Basically, different emotional disturbances have different 'antidotes'. On some level they all have a kind of interdependent causality (dispassion leads to goodwill leads to joy, etc), but finding the root of discontent in your temperament can stop the whole chain right where it begins. Unless your problem is actually a thoroughly physiological one (like chronic fatigue, if that's a good example of a more biological problem), I'd likely assume that it's psychological or temperamental in origin. Drugs can certainly help with that, but they're more likely to just treat the symptoms, and they function as more of a supplement than a main course of treatment imo.

 

hmm i read this 3 times,  and thanks both for the reply,  .. but how can i cultivate joy if a have depression for example.. , i can enjoy myself, butz like i said in a blunted state... so how can i cultivate joy then if i only feel blunted and feel emotions when something comes unexpected..

 

my gf wanted a break , so i suddenly cried for 6 seconds with deep emotions, then gone ... i have these kinda situations like 6 times a year.... this sucks :/ i want to feeeeeel again

 

 

also wanted 2 add, i dont feel depressed, i feel continously positive in my body but with no emotions.. like just positive and i rarely feel sad or anything else... well pissed off often if someone does me wrong

Edited by ThreeKings12341, 27 November 2016 - 09:59 PM.

[umop 3pisdn]

 

hmm i read this 3 times,  and thanks both for the reply,  .. but how can i cultivate joy if a have depression for example.. , i can enjoy myself, butz like i said in a blunted state... so how can i cultivate joy then if i only feel blunted and feel emotions when something comes unexpected..

 

my gf wanted a break , so i suddenly cried for 6 seconds with deep emotions, then gone ... i have these kinda situations like 6 times a year.... this sucks :/ i want to feeeeeel again

 

 

also wanted 2 add, i dont feel depressed, i feel continously positive in my body but with no emotions.. like just positive and i rarely feel sad or anything else... well pissed off often if someone does me wrong

 

 

That is a good question. I find that joy follows naturally from goodwill (or 'metta', in Buddhist phenomenology). Metta is also the antidote for anger, and it produces very wholesome or heartfelt emotions,  so that might be a good way to go.

 

Goodwill can be developed in a lot of ways, but I think this is my favourite way that I've seen it described:

https://mettarefuge....oving-kindness/

 

Joy can be developed in a more direct way, too. In Buddhist phenomenology it's called 'piti', and it's something that just happens during meditation as a result of you internalizing your awareness. Piti can be experienced in a lot of different ways. I usually experience it as an energetic feeling in my body, some people experience it at first as a tingling in their hands, etc. And once you've noticed it a few times in meditation, you can produce a bit of it at will whenever you want. Maybe not as much as you want (but if you keep at it, it will grow), but it's a step in the right direction and something that you can use to halt what might otherwise be a vicious cycle.

 

The idea is really just one of repetition, you slowly replace less wholesome habits with more wholesome ones, and gradually your temperament changes. In some ways it's easier than it seems, because it's just a matter of conditioning, and that kind of learning is not fully conscious and is something that happens behind the scenes. In most cases, our temperament or habits are the things that makes us unhappy, and here you're just using the principles of selective thinking (replacing less helpful thoughts with more helpful ones) to untie the knots and habits we've accumulated that have made us unhappy.

Edited by umop 3pisdn, 27 November 2016 - 11:31 PM.

[bbminded]

When you speak specifically about not feeling depressed but rather "blunted" I immediately think about all the different SSRI's doctors prescribed me growing up... I can remember feeling like a "shell"..no happiness nor depressed. And even worse, when I stopped taking the SSRI'S I went through extremely severe withdrawals that lasted for months (interesting how doctors never mention this side effect.

But when it comes to opioids they continue to keep regulating them making it harder for legitimate chronic pain suffers to get them (no wonder so many H. overdoses as doctors just drop patients who have been on pain meds for a while and not helping them when they all of a sudden start going through withdrawals).

Another thing, and someone else above mentioned it, regarding your sleep, you say it's great? Interested in knowing if you notice any trend when you are in a non active situation like watching TV or sitting in a classroom? Do you find that you become tired in such situations, to the point of falling asleep? I had a very similar upbringing as you, along with most of the "disconnect" feeling you talk about. It was finally diagnosed that I had sleep apnea my whole life that went undetected because I wasnt overweight, but actually the extreme opposite. It took me having to do the research to come to the conclusion that I needed a sleep study. And to my surprise, I was met with a constant "No, that would be a waste of time and there's no way you have sleep apnea as you don't fit the profile" according to several doctors. Long story short I continued pressing for a sleep study and what do you know.... mild sleep apnea that required I use a cpap machine, no drugs.


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[gamesguru]

bee pollen, tea, and most proteins contribute to glutamate function, and the full range of emotions.  gradually, piece by piece, you can build up a more effective stack, much of which is simply adjusting diet.  i am increasingly elevating onions to superstar status, with broad properties beyond the narrow confines of this post, their praise hardly needs singing.  among common vegetables they rank fifth in total flavonoid content and eighth in antioxidant capacity.  their abundance in French cooking is thought (by those who have not taken to the wine) to explain the long life expectancy of a nation which otherwise indulges in fatty and unhealthy foods.  onions also act as mineral uptake enhancers (at least for magnesium, with a medium slice increasing uptake of co-administered bean&rice endo-Mg by up to 150%).  the manganese in onions also promotes the turnover of excess glutamate in several brain regions.

[ThreeKings12341]

When you speak specifically about not feeling depressed but rather "blunted" I immediately think about all the different SSRI's doctors prescribed me growing up... I can remember feeling like a "shell"..no happiness nor depressed. And even worse, when I stopped taking the SSRI'S I went through extremely severe withdrawals that lasted for months (interesting how doctors never mention this side effect.

But when it comes to opioids they continue to keep regulating them making it harder for legitimate chronic pain suffers to get them (no wonder so many H. overdoses as doctors just drop patients who have been on pain meds for a while and not helping them when they all of a sudden start going through withdrawals).

Another thing, and someone else above mentioned it, regarding your sleep, you say it's great? Interested in knowing if you notice any trend when you are in a non active situation like watching TV or sitting in a classroom? Do you find that you become tired in such situations, to the point of falling asleep? I had a very similar upbringing as you, along with most of the "disconnect" feeling you talk about. It was finally diagnosed that I had sleep apnea my whole life that went undetected because I wasnt overweight, but actually the extreme opposite. It took me having to do the research to come to the conclusion that I needed a sleep study. And to my surprise, I was met with a constant "No, that would be a waste of time and there's no way you have sleep apnea as you don't fit the profile" according to several doctors. Long story short I continued pressing for a sleep study and what do you know.... mild sleep apnea that required I use a cpap machine, no drugs.


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very interesting !!

 

well with srris i even felt more blunted, the kinda zombie state you know but without ssris also veeeery blunted

 

, hmmm well i used to sleep reaaaallly bad but since heating healthy and wearing glasses so i dont have obsessive thoughts about my appereance( my body dysmphobia reduced soo much in a good way this year), i sleep deep and easily fall asleep, but my gf says i snoar irregular, hmm

 

and nope i never fall asleep in the class ( never did) i cant actually outside somewhere, but tiredness i can only feel after 5 o clock , before i have energy to go running every day nearly.. well pregabalin kinda makes me more chilled (only take em in the evening and only 75 mg), i reather get eaaasily bored with the most topics that come across me, i really have bad concentration...  never listened in school because had obsessive thoughts about random stuff for over 10  years, so maybe my bad concentration comes from that?

 

sooo u had your feelings back from that then when your sleep apnea got treated ??????

 

i really should look into this and it was on my bucket list ^^

 

 

bee pollen, tea, and most proteins contribute to glutamate function, and the full range of emotions.  gradually, piece by piece, you can build up a more effective stack, much of which is simply adjusting diet.  i am increasingly elevating onions to superstar status, with broad properties beyond the narrow confines of this post, their praise hardly needs singing.  among common vegetables they rank fifth in total flavonoid content and eighth in antioxidant capacity.  their abundance in French cooking is thought (by those who have not taken to the wine) to explain the long life expectancy of a nation which otherwise indulges in fatty and unhealthy foods.  onions also act as mineral uptake enhancers (at least for magnesium, with a medium slice increasing uptake of co-administered bean&rice endo-Mg by up to 150%).  the manganese in onions also promotes the turnover of excess glutamate in several brain regions.

my doc says im not allowed to eat onions because of "Fructo-oglio-Sacharide" u call it in german, ( i have fructose intolerance) but thanks for the info... !!

[ThreeKings12341]

no respond :/?