12 replies to this topic

[cylon]

Recent article over on BBC

http://www.bbc.com/f...-could-kill-you

 

Very confusing. In the field of nutrition it seems that every few years what was good for you becomes just the opposite.

 

But my takeaway is

- don't take antioxidants when you excercise

and

- don't take antioxidants if you have cancer

 

I will continue to take pycnogenol a few times a week...too many other benefits in addition to its anti-oxidant properties.

 

[pamojja]

Already discussed in this thread:

 

http://www.longecity...ills-dont-work/

 

Please research the sources of such populist articles before making decisions you might regret latter.

[Junk Master]

The thing with anti-oxidants is timing.  If you take them within an hour of a workout they can blunt the effects of a workout.

 

Personally, I'd cycle them as well.

 

The concept of hormesis-- "a biological phenomenon whereby a beneficial effect (improved health, stress tolerance, growth or longevity) results from exposure to low doses of an agent that is otherwise toxic or lethal when given at higher doses" is becoming more popularized among both the performance and longevity community.

 

In a nutshell, a little stress turns on a vast array of beneficial genes, while too much stress is literally a killer.

 

Hope that helps.  And yes, so much of supplementation and nutritional advice can be confusing!  That's why forums like this serve such an important role, and why I love it when people join in to these conversations with different takes, thoughts, and corrections.

[Dorian Grey]

You can reduce oxidative stress in the body by gobbling down antioxidants, or by simply reducing pro-oxidant physiology, which reduces the need for antioxidants from nutrition or supplements.  

 

Iron is the ultimate pro-oxidant component in human physiology, and many of us live in an iron fortified world.  Iron fortification was started to alleviate anemia in menstruating females, and may work well for this, but for males, who tend to accumulate iron, this can cause problems.  Cancer, heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's, arthritis, and a host of other conditions have been associated with excess iron.  More on this here:

 

http://www.healtheir...science-library

 

and here: http://clinchem.aacc...tent/60/11/1362

 

A ferritin blood lab is a cheap and easy way to measure stored iron, and from what I've read ferritin is best kept out of triple digits for optimal health.  One can lower ferritin through donation of whole blood (the iron is in the red cells), but for those who can not or will not donate blood, there are other options.  

 

Iron chelators can help with iron homeostasis by mopping up free/labile iron, which is the most dangerous kind.  IP6 (Inositol Hexaphosphate), Curcumin and Quercetin are the best known natural iron chelators and are very benign regarding side effects.  Some call them antioxidants, as they do reduce oxidative stress, but they do it in a different way than the traditional antioxidants (Vitamin C, E, etc) by heading oxidation off before it starts.  

 

I stumbled upon iron homeostasis by accident as I've been a blood donor since the mid 80s.  I've lead an atrocious life of alcohol, tobacco and junk food, but at 60 years of age am still enjoying excellent health.  Perhaps I was simply born a genetic superman, and perhaps my luck will run out before I reach 65, but truly believe controlling iron accumulation has saved my health thus far.  

 

My co-workers often think I'm 10 years younger than I actually am, and are astonished when they hear me talking of retirement.  I'm naturally slim without exercise, still have a full head of brown hair and have never experienced any form of chronic illness.  I have no smokers hack and sprint over the 105 stairs at our convention center to get to the waterfront most every weekend without getting winded.  

 

I often think to myself how odd it is to have discovered the fountain of youth by accident, and unlike Dorian Gray, I didn't even have to sell my soul!  

[timar]

The thing with anti-oxidants is timing.

 

The thing with antioxidants is that they are not a "thing". The thing with absurdly generalizing statements such as: "antioxidants are good/bad for you" is that they simply make no sense whatsoever. It's similar to saying: "oxygen is good/bad for you", but even this makes more sense as the subject (O₂), is at least a defined chemical compound whereas "antioxidents" refers to an extremely heterogenous class of very different compounds with only one thing in common - their ability to quench radical reactions.

 

The template for a meaningful sentence would be the following:

 

Antioxidant A (defined chemical compund, or defined mix thereof) in an amount of B (milligrams) delivered over a period of C (days) in the form of D (whole food/supplement/IV/etc.) is good/bad for the health outcome E under the set of conditions F = {a, b, ...} (age, sex, existing health condidtions, etc.).

 

Thus, the correct headline for articles such as the one referenced above should read:

 

Vitamin E and C, taken long-term in supplemental megadoses, hamper some - but not all - beneficial adaptions from exercise in relatively young and healthy people.

 

Doesn't make a catchy headline, doesn't it? "Antioxidants are bad for you" will surely attract more clicks...

 

 

Edited by timar, 19 December 2016 - 04:20 PM.

[Junk Master]

AMEN!

[Synaptik]

I'm not buying it. I'm 40 years old now and don't have one grey hair or wrinkle on my body. This year was the first I have not been carded going out somewhere (and I don't go out often anymore). Former (light) smoker, partier and binge drinker...

 

The one thing I did during those days (and still do every day) to attenuate the ageing process is take a concoction of anti-ox substances and green/herbal teas. Perhaps this is all coincidence, and I'm blessed with strong genetics, but I'm convinced my anti-ox regimen from my young 20's on is paying off dividends. Now, perhaps it's actually hormesis which is responsible for this - not sure. And yes, this is all just anecdotal stuff. But in my mind, taking multi- spectrum anti-ox substances has been the best investment I ever made.

 

I subscribe to the 80/20 theory: genetics play an 80% role in your health/ageing spectrum and 20% is the lifestyle and foods you consume. i think the key is taking a broad range of supplements and not too much of any one thing. 

[Synaptik]

The best part, is it's relatively inexpensive. Turmeric powder/olive oil/pepper; ginkgo tincture; niacin; vit C; green tea. Use that cheapish list everyday (or near everyday) and you'll reduce oxidative damage and/or produce a positive hormesis effects which is sure to have a beneficial impact on ageing. 

 

There are also some exciting compounds that are just being discovered and are close to trials which are sure to add more potent anti-aging punch in the future.

Edited by Synaptik, 22 December 2016 - 05:03 PM.

[jack black]

I often think to myself how odd it is to have discovered the fountain of youth by accident, and unlike Dorian Gray, I didn't even have to sell my soul!

Is it only bloodletting or something else? How often?

[Oakman]

I'm not buying it. I'm 40 years old now and don't have one grey hair or wrinkle on my body. This year was the first I have not been carded going out somewhere (and I don't go out often anymore). Former (light) smoker, partier and binge drinker...

 

The one thing I did during those days (and still do every day) to attenuate the ageing process is take a concoction of anti-ox substances and green/herbal teas. Perhaps this is all coincidence, and I'm blessed with strong genetics, but I'm convinced my anti-ox regimen from my young 20's on is paying off dividends. Now, perhaps it's actually hormesis which is responsible for this - not sure. And yes, this is all just anecdotal stuff. But in my mind, taking multi- spectrum anti-ox substances has been the best investment I ever made.

 

I subscribe to the 80/20 theory: genetics play an 80% role in your health/ageing spectrum and 20% is the lifestyle and foods you consume. i think the key is taking a broad range of supplements and not too much of any one thing. 

 

 

The best part, is it's relatively inexpensive. Turmeric powder/olive oil/pepper; ginkgo tincture; niacin; vit C; green tea. Use that cheapish list everyday (or near everyday) and you'll reduce oxidative damage and/or produce a positive hormesis effects which is sure to have a beneficial impact on ageing. 

 

There are also some exciting compounds that are just being discovered and are close to trials which are sure to add more potent anti-aging punch in the future.

 

I believe you (and I) are and have practiced (something like) the correct "formula for longevity", and even before 'longevity' was a 'thing'. For myself, I've taken some supplements and Vitamin C (!) virtually every.single.day.of.my.life. from my 20s on.  Perhaps, “The best option is to get antioxidants from food because it contains a mixture of antioxidants that work together”, but frankly, I'd say no one ever is able to accomplish that long term, because life doesn't work that way. Wide spectrum supplements fill in the gaps, keep the bodily processes working well, regardless. IOW, when in doubt, supplement with minimal and reasonable amounts, and never, ever stop.

 

Pop culture authors can write scary articles, dissing Vit C, supplements in general, or whatever makes a headline, but I'd do what I'm doing (and have done) all over again, in a heartbeat. At 67, I see unfortunates all around me in society that are younger, older, but failing to thrive, sadly on a glide path of physical immobility, disease, and suffering. Many think it inevitable, or fate, or maybe they don't notice, but the end result in their cases is the same, they are failing to thrive.

 

Myself, I'm healthy and physically stronger than ever (perhaps in my life), and I have intentions to stay that way. So whether from genetics or my own perseverance, when it comes to supplements, exercise, and NOT being like those I see all around me, I have boundless energy and a positive attitude.

Edited by Oakman, 23 December 2016 - 03:48 PM.

[Wilberforce]

I agree with Synesthesia. Similarly I've taken antioxes since my 20's and have no wrinkles at 50. Granted, I've graduated on from C/E to MitoQ and the like


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[Synaptik]

 

I'm not buying it. I'm 40 years old now and don't have one grey hair or wrinkle on my body. This year was the first I have not been carded going out somewhere (and I don't go out often anymore). Former (light) smoker, partier and binge drinker...

 

The one thing I did during those days (and still do every day) to attenuate the ageing process is take a concoction of anti-ox substances and green/herbal teas. Perhaps this is all coincidence, and I'm blessed with strong genetics, but I'm convinced my anti-ox regimen from my young 20's on is paying off dividends. Now, perhaps it's actually hormesis which is responsible for this - not sure. And yes, this is all just anecdotal stuff. But in my mind, taking multi- spectrum anti-ox substances has been the best investment I ever made.

 

I subscribe to the 80/20 theory: genetics play an 80% role in your health/ageing spectrum and 20% is the lifestyle and foods you consume. i think the key is taking a broad range of supplements and not too much of any one thing. 

 

 

The best part, is it's relatively inexpensive. Turmeric powder/olive oil/pepper; ginkgo tincture; niacin; vit C; green tea. Use that cheapish list everyday (or near everyday) and you'll reduce oxidative damage and/or produce a positive hormesis effects which is sure to have a beneficial impact on ageing. 

 

There are also some exciting compounds that are just being discovered and are close to trials which are sure to add more potent anti-aging punch in the future.

 

I believe you (and I) are and have practiced (something like) the correct "formula for longevity", and even before 'longevity' was a 'thing'. For myself, I've taken some supplements and Vitamin C (!) virtually every.single.day.of.my.life. from my 20s on.  Perhaps, “The best option is to get antioxidants from food because it contains a mixture of antioxidants that work together”, but frankly, I'd say no one ever is able to accomplish that long term, because life doesn't work that way. Wide spectrum supplements fill in the gaps, keep the bodily processes working well, regardless. IOW, when in doubt, supplement with minimal and reasonable amounts, and never, ever stop.

 

Pop culture authors can write scary articles, dissing Vit C, supplements in general, or whatever makes a headline, but I'd do what I'm doing (and have done) all over again, in a heartbeat. At 67, I see unfortunates all around me in society that are younger, older, but failing to thrive, sadly on a glide path of physical immobility, disease, and suffering. Many think it inevitable, or fate, or maybe they don't notice, but the end result in their cases is the same, they are failing to thrive.

 

Myself, I'm healthy and physically stronger than ever (perhaps in my life), and I have intentions to stay that way. So whether from genetics or my own perseverance, when it comes to supplements, exercise, and NOT being like those I see all around me, I have boundless energy and a positive attitude.

 

 

Have an up vote Sir - well said. Nothing really more to add except to emphasize I would do it all over again in a heartbeat as well. It's not like it even takes any effort; just like brushing your teeth at night once you get acclimated to taking a supplement daily it becomes odd when you skip a day. Just filling in the gaps with supplements which may be even better than what's commonly found in the grocery store.

[Dorian Grey]

 

I often think to myself how odd it is to have discovered the fountain of youth by accident, and unlike Dorian Gray, I didn't even have to sell my soul!

Is it only bloodletting or something else? How often?

 

   

I've been a fairly regular donor since around age 30.  I work in healthcare and they have blood drives all the time.  Donated over 5 gallons between ages 30 & 60, usually 2-3 times a year.  I've also taken supplements all my life.  Mostly the basics ( B-Complex, C & E).  I added Lecithin at around age 40 as I'm rather fond of beer and lecithin is supposed to support the liver.  

 

Added Curcumin & IP6 when I got on my iron reduction kick after reading Bill Sardi's "Unifying Theory of Aging"

 

http://www.longevine...of-aging-part1/

 

I really don't know what else it could be besides the iron homeostasis that has kept me healthy.  I never exercise, have smoked all my life (switched to a pipe at age 40), and have lived a bachelor / bohemian life of fast food & beer since I was 19.  

Edited by synesthesia, 23 December 2016 - 11:30 PM.