75 replies to this topic

[iseethelight]

For the past year or so, after eating lunch or dinner, I get hit with immediate depression. My mood drops considerably post meal, within minutes and sometimes before I even finish my meal. 

 

I thought it might be hypoglycemia but my blood sugar is not out of the ordinary during for post meal the episode.. what could be the cause?

[PeaceAndProsperity]

does it matter whether it's fat, sugar or protein/amino?

[iseethelight]

does it matter whether it's fat, sugar or protein/amino?

 

Well most of my meals are a combo of carb and protein at 60/40 ratio... I'm starting to think I have a carb intolerance...Not much fat, except for when i consume  raw eggs.

[pamojja]

Maybe you'll find somethings that help in this comprehensive write-up:

 

https://selfhacked.c...o-cure-fatigue/

[monowav]

That sounds like inflammation to me

[jack black]

Sugars will do it alright.

[truboy]

Some people react like this to foods, most common trouble groups are:

1. grains

2. dairy

 

Google search - 'wheat makes me' (gluten intolerance), 'dairy makes me', etc

 

Do the food journal and track the foods you react badly too.

I would recommend to focus diet on meat/fish and vegetables. Check primal and paleo diet for further reading.

[iseethelight]

ok so today, I had just meat and coleslaw for lunch and same thing happened. So I think it's high protein/choline, i'm intolerant to.. damn it, this shit is so confusing.

 

 

[monowav]

check your serum ammonia after you eat meat

[hdl_1]

This may have to do with a drop in serotonin after eating. Try tryptophan and see if that helps. You can look up on the net for articles describing the relationship between serotonin and food.

hdl_1

[gamesguru]

depending on the food and amino acid profile, this could be the answer.

Many of the neurotransmitters in the brain are made from amino acids. The neurotransmitter dopamine is made from the amino acid tyrosine and the neurotransmitter serotonin is made from the tryptophan.[5] If there is a lack of any of these two amino acids, there will not be enough synthesis of the respective neurotransmitters, which is associated with low mood and aggression in the patients. The excessive buildup of amino acids may also lead to brain damage and mental retardation. For example, excessive buildup of phenylalanine in the individuals with disease called phenylketonuria can cause brain damage and mental retardation.

[monowav]

 

depending on the food and amino acid profile, this could be the answer.

Many of the neurotransmitters in the brain are made from amino acids. The neurotransmitter dopamine is made from the amino acid tyrosine and the neurotransmitter serotonin is made from the tryptophan.[5] If there is a lack of any of these two amino acids, there will not be enough synthesis of the respective neurotransmitters, which is associated with low mood and aggression in the patients. The excessive buildup of amino acids may also lead to brain damage and mental retardation. For example, excessive buildup of phenylalanine in the individuals with disease called phenylketonuria can cause brain damage and mental retardation.

 

 

That is an extreme example. And more specifically he would need genetic testing to figure out something like a bh4 deficiency. 

[gamesguru]

certainly, but i was referring to the first half of the quotation.  the second half is not relevant to the discussion, and included only for informational purposes.

 

In the interests of relevancy, i'm sure you will agree one does not need genetic testing to ascertain a dietary amino acid deficiency.  One needs nutrient tracking software.  And since he hasn't told us his typical protein sources, it is difficult to rule out low intake of tryptophan or tyrosine

Edited by gamesguru, 28 December 2016 - 04:57 PM.

[iseethelight]

Guys, 

I think my issue may be the meat in my meals . Meat is high in choline and methionine. Two things I can't tolerate high amount of. Choline due to high ach and methionine due to sulfur intolerance...

 

But it takes time for the meat to be digested so I can't explain the quick rise in symptoms. 

Edited by iseethelight, 28 December 2016 - 10:43 PM.

[hdl_1]

Could be. Note that there's an inverse relationship between acetylcholine and serotonin. The high choline intake may increase acetylcholine and therefore there's a drop in serotonin. In both cases tryptophan may help.
http://mindrenewal.us/page13.html

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[Dichotohmy]

I have a similar problem being most pronounced for the first and second meals of the day. The middle hours of the day are by far my worst, being after the second meal. The first 2 hours of the day are the best, and an obvious plunge in mood and energy follows from breakfast. interestingly, the last 2-3 hours of my day are relatively good even though I eat the third meal about 6 hours before bedtime. With that perspective, I might have some insightful questions to help explore some possible causes.

1. Do you have any other symptoms besides mood lowering? Can you be specific of what sort of post-prandial depression symptoms you have? Are threr any adrenaline/anxiety symptoms at all after eating? There is a thing called idiopathic post-prandial syndrome that mimics the effect of post-prandial hypoglycemia, but without an observable hypoglycemic state (hence idiopathic). This is thought to be an adrenal responce to blood sugar dropping after the post-prandial peak, even though blood sugar isn't dropping too low at all.

2. Have you ever tried skipping meals and seeing if your mood/depression comes on anyway (to any extent) at the time(s) you would ordinarily eat? Diurnal variations in mood are common in depression, but are thought to be linked to the circadian rhythm (and more specifically its influence on hormones) so the act of eating could be a red herring. I bet you would have mentioned this if so, but its worth asking.

3. Do you have any accompanying gut symptoms to suggest an immune/inflammatory responce? You mention perhaps its choline and methionine intolerance, but this is hard to test without a strict elimination diet and such a diet is completely unsustainable when every alternative protein source, like legumes, contain methionine.

Good luck finding the solution, I'll be watching this.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

It just came to my mind, several people including myself have noted that we have more energy and better mood (but it's relative to situations) when we have not eaten, and eating food has a strong negative effect. This could be because of noradrenaline being lowered when eating and increased when fasting. 

[iseethelight]

I have a similar problem being most pronounced for the first and second meals of the day. The middle hours of the day are by far my worst, being after the second meal. The first 2 hours of the day are the best, and an obvious plunge in mood and energy follows from breakfast. interestingly, the last 2-3 hours of my day are relatively good even though I eat the third meal about 6 hours before bedtime. With that perspective, I might have some insightful questions to help explore some possible causes.

1. Do you have any other symptoms besides mood lowering? Can you be specific of what sort of post-prandial depression symptoms you have? Are threr any adrenaline/anxiety symptoms at all after eating? There is a thing called idiopathic post-prandial syndrome that mimics the effect of post-prandial hypoglycemia, but without an observable hypoglycemic state (hence idiopathic). This is thought to be an adrenal responce to blood sugar dropping after the post-prandial peak, even though blood sugar isn't dropping too low at all.

2. Have you ever tried skipping meals and seeing if your mood/depression comes on anyway (to any extent) at the time(s) you would ordinarily eat? Diurnal variations in mood are common in depression, but are thought to be linked to the circadian rhythm (and more specifically its influence on hormones) so the act of eating could be a red herring. I bet you would have mentioned this if so, but its worth asking.

3. Do you have any accompanying gut symptoms to suggest an immune/inflammatory responce? You mention perhaps its choline and methionine intolerance, but this is hard to test without a strict elimination diet and such a diet is completely unsustainable when every alternative protein source, like legumes, contain methionine.

Good luck finding the solution, I'll be watching this.

 

1)I usually get all the typical depression symptoms post meal, with them increasing and  peaking at about 4-5 hours post meal where I'm at my lowest state. So that would include anhedonia, negative outlook, fatigue, anxiety, low self esteem, add, inability to focus, lack of interest in anything.

 

2) Yes when I fast, I feel great but as you know this is not a feasible cure lol.

 

3) I used to have gut issues but haven't had any for a while now. One of the 100s of supplements I took trying to fix my depression inadvertently cured my esophagus / gut ache issue. 

 

I've tried many elimination diets besides cutting out meat because I loved it so much. This is my next one..

[gamesguru]

It just came to my mind, several people including myself have noted that we have more energy and better mood (but it's relative to situations) when we have not eaten, and eating food has a strong negative effect. This could be because of noradrenaline being lowered when eating and increased when fasting. 

 

or the sheer abundance of crud and toxin in your food.  seriously, eating food.. strong negative effect? dafuq are yall on. i feel divinely medicated cloud9 after a homecooked and optimized meal.

 

this reminds me of post coital blues and exercise-induce food allergy (a lot rarer than EI asthma), but this is it's own thing. post meal depression. one thing i observed about it... there seems to be a strong correlation between eating disorders and depression, so maybe this, combined with low tyrosine/tryptophan could really explain it all?

[Madman]

Maybe you still have gut/intestinal issues, possibly leaky gut, L-glutamine, Collagen and pro/pre biotics may fix this.

[iseethelight]

I'm getting closer guys. I've tried both a high protein and a high carb meal yesterday and today with the same poor results. I believe it's a lack of fat in my meals causing this issue. This could be a breakthrough for many of us. I will start taking healthy fats with every meal and report back...

[iseethelight]

Well, Spoke too soon. I just had 3 tbsp of extra virgin olive oil and 2 tbsp of butter mixed in pure dark chocolate with my lunch and I feel worse than ever. I actually got cold chills on top of my usual post meal symptoms.

[gamesguru]

I just had 3 tbsp of extra virgin olive oil and 2 tbsp of butter mixed in pure dark chocolate

 

at no point in the primal period of our evolution did mother nature equip us to deal with that sort of concoction, man

 

try a mixed rice (add the 2tbsp butter) and pinto bean base, topped with onions/peppers/mushies/broc (use the 3 tbsp of oil to fry), grassfed cheese and fried salmon or beef, homemade salsa and guac.  my boss always ask if i wanna go out to lunch with him, i be like naw

 

this is very similar to what caveman would have enjoyed, at least during the productive seasons spring summer and fall, where great loots of meat were celebrated in feasts, typically mixed with fruit sauces, tubers, starchy vegetables and greens, rolled into a patty, wrapped in a leaf over hot embers for a taste between steamed and grilled.  this practice began as early as 1.9 million years ago

[Madman]

sounds very much like a digestion problem, with your previous issues, and now this, because your IBS pain is gone does not necessarily mean the issue is resolved, get some investigation going with gut issues.

 

 

[totflare]

I have had the same problem for years. I've actually experienced different forms of this. One is where you can easily go without eating for a long time and actually feel good and productive and the other one is where you feel like you need to eat regularly to have energy and if you don't you will feel bad. For me another thing was if I missed the right window of eating and started eating afterwards it would make me feel like crap. It's as if the food wasn't getting where it's supposed to, as if I got nothing out of it and still would feel like I didn't properly eat.

 

It's probably a nervous system issue, specifically the limbic system. I've had depression, anxiety and OCD for years. I've become more aware of the different states of my mind. Been reading about neurochemistry and some psychological theories too. The eating and feeling tired thing seems to involve some kind of ego preservation thing where everytime you eat you will disrupt it hence depression or the other one where food is what keeps your ego going. If you don't like my Freudian terms just call it the disruption of a fragile homeostasis.

 

It's quite similar to what happens in anorexia where eating feels bad and restriction is rewarding (kappa opioids). Because they can't get pleasure (mu opioids) out of food they start restricting it (dynorphins, kappa opioids) instead to still feel functional. One of the most consistent findings is that anorexic people tend to have too much serotonin and the restricting helps to keep it away from the receptors. Mu opioids and kappa opioids both reduce serotonin. I think the real issue is an inflamed limbic system which needs nourishing and healing.

Edited by synchronizing89, 30 December 2016 - 12:35 PM.

[iseethelight]

Guys, I'm frustrated. Having another horrible day, ate no protein for breakfast, felt decent but still crappy. Had salmon and rice for lunch, right after felt like total crap and still feeling like total shit now. WTF. I may have to become a vegetarian.

Edited by iseethelight, 31 December 2016 - 01:03 AM.

[Meggo]

I have the same problem and i am a vegan

[gamesguru]

y'all nigguhs got either a dietary or genetic problem

after due consideration I propose 'reactive hypoglycemia' as the main candidate. I usedta have issues with that back in the day (after meals.. depression, fatigue and lightheadedness upon standing), before I took to the principles of strict eating. it was frustrating because I thought more calories would help stabilize my blood sugar, but anything I threw at my body would make the situation worse, fat and protein too. I'm attributing the remission to a higher intake of dietary polyphenols and related compounds which favourably modulate glucose and insulin dependent pathways (as compared to my crummy high school diet)

Edited by gamesguru, 31 December 2016 - 09:40 PM.

[truboy]

Guys, I'm frustrated. Having another horrible day, ate no protein for breakfast, felt decent but still crappy. Had salmon and rice for lunch, right after felt like total crap and still feeling like total shit now. WTF. I may have to become a vegetarian.

 

How it eat today, will effect how will feel tomorrow.

Same meals that usually make me feel great can make me feel shitty if i ate problem foods day before.

 

Don't become frustrated/emotional - stay calm and work/analize your diet step by step and you will find patters that will work for you.

 

Amount of daily exersize also makes big difference - for example carbs without exersize can make me feel tired. With exersize can make me feel great.

 

Also when you eat is big. If i eat perfect food late at night i will feel shittier next day. For me i feel best if i don't eat after 5pm, and have most of my calories for breakfast and lunch. Also i feel best if most of my protein/fat/greens is for breakfast/lunch and most of carbs are for dinner.

 

Carbs are not created equal. 100 grams of potatoes/100 grams of rice/100 grams of wheat are not the same for me. First makes me feel great, 2nd constipated/tired, 3rd depressed.

 

Hope that helps. Different things may work for you - i just want to show that it's not that simple as 'good food' or 'bad food' - try to look at bigger picture. 

Edited by truboy, 01 January 2017 - 12:42 AM.

[iseethelight]

Guys.. I have some vitamin, amino acids, mineral deficiencies due some gene mutations. It all ties into that. The issue is nobody really knows how to truly treat and work around these mutations.  All the experts don't really know yet since these snps , mutation disorders are a new thing in the medical world. I have cbs, comt, and mao, vdr mutations. I gave up on trying to fix them a couple months back but I'm going right back to that again. They're the only sure thing I have to work with. I haven't done any other tests..