71 replies to this topic

[Heisok]

matteroftime,

 

I am sorry for the many individual questions, but I am trying to fill in my knowledge about the individual vendors. This is not a minor thing when I am recommending a product to somebody with severe issues. I am taking it as a sort of control about possible side effects. Due to the comment about PPAR-alpha efect possibly effecting weight control, I figured that I would at least be able to see if it works in that respect for me.

 

Vitalitus lists the complete ingredients on their website, including that the capsule is vegetarian. I have listed them , and verified from the label of the product which I received. Vitalitus claims 3.17 μm average with a standard deviation of .64 μm on their website.

 

I have not been able to find the P.E.A. Cure information on their website. Would you list the label information from the bottle? Also, since you have a good communication with them, will they tell you the percentages of each micronization level which you described above?

 

Thanks.

 

Vitalitus:

 

Palmitoylethanolamide 350 mg

 

Other Ingredients: Rice Concentrate, Sunflower Lecithin, Vegetarian Capsule (Hypromellose)

[Heisok]

Due to possible questions regarding Rice Concentrate, to be on the safe side I would not take the product "sublingually" . I tried it once, before further research. It did quickly absorb without leaving grit or residue of some sort. I do not know what rice concentrate is used.

 

The only Rice Concentrate which I could find is Nu-Flow by Ribus. It has 15 to 21 % makeup of silica which occurs naturally within the rice husk fiber. I do not know if breathing it would be an issue. It is way beyond me.

 

  http://ribus.com/nu-flow/

 

"The Synthetics Replacer,” Nu-FLOW^® offers producers an option to replace synthetics or other anti-caking agents including SiO₂  tri-calcium phosphate (or talc) with a natural or certified organic ingredient.
Using ‘rice concentrate’ on your label statement gives you a clean, consumer-friendly label while also solving anti-caking, flow and other manufacturing and/or production challenges. Nu-FLOW is made from rice hulls that are sterilized and ground to a fine powder. The unique functionality comes from the fact that ‘Mother Nature’ causes the rice plant to take up silica from the soil and concentrate it in the hulls of the rice, thereby producing a natural alternative to silicon dioxide"

 

"Product Analysis Natural Nu-FLOW®:
Protein: 1 – 3%*
Fat:0 – 2%
Moisture: <4%
Carbohydrates: 60 – 76%
Total Dietary Fiber: 60 – 76%
Ash: 16 – 22%

Product Analysis Organic Nu-FLOW®:
Protein: 1 – 3%*
Fat: 0 – 2%
Moisture: <4%
Carbohydrates: 60 – 76%
Total Dietary Fiber: 60 – 76%
Ash: 16 – 22%

*Product is natural and variations will occur.

Description: Concentrate of silica from rice, light tan in color, used to replace Silicon Dioxide (a synthetic) as an anti-caking agent.

 

 

Edited by Heisok, 25 January 2017 - 09:59 PM.

[matteroftime]

No problem whatsoever, Heisok. Keep them coming. If PEA is as effective as it seems, it's well worth the effort. Plus, it is interesting, for me at least. I was never much into chemistry, but I guess the affinity comes with age

 

I'll try to respond in the order you wrote the previous two posts.

 

Speaking or receptors, if you run into anything new regarding PEA and CBs, please do share.

 

As for the vendors, I talked about why Vitalitus was not an option for me (if they do that, I'm not sure how much I can trust them. I get it, marketing battle and all, but I don't have to condone that). PeaPure was great, but they did tell me that they might have a problem with shipping to the US (FDA holding shipments sometimes, or sth like that). I really appreciate their honesty, but PEA Cure had no such issues and they were also very honest and responsive, so that was it for me. Mind you, despite the FDA issues for PeaPure I didn't worry about purity. FDA would ban them if they were bad, plus they do sell in the EU and their regulations are far stricter than ours.

 

Side effects should be non-existent if you opt for a product with no fillers, additives or sorbitol. There are those with these thing, but why would you go for the lesser product in the first place. I thought all three mentioned were pure, but you said Vitalitus had some additions (first time ever I heard about that rice thing). I know that PEA Cure is extracted from palm oil and nothing else is added, aside from the capsule itself which is vegetarian.

 

As for the micornization, I found the thing I posted on a blog (there's a link to that article up there as well). This is the only thing I found with such info, so I thought I should share. However, this happened after I'd started using PEA and it worked for me within a few days, so why mess with the thing that works

 

Unfortunately, the label is less than informative. Here it is in the image below

http://imgur.com/a/G4nw6

This is the bigger container. It's a bit cheaper per capsule, so I opt for that one.

However, just like with PeaPure, if they sell in the US and especially in the EU (I read what the difference is between the regulations and EU is far stricter), it should be fine. Plus, I have personal experience with it.

 

Please, do send any info you might get about PEA, or vendors.

 

A friend's husband has a PhD in biochemistry or something and I took the liberty of sending him a pretty large email with some questions regarding receptors. Will post when/if he answers

[Heisok]

Thank you. That label is exactly what I needed. I am not worried about the rice concentrate, as there is no issue except for the possibility of somebody inadvertently inhaling it by dumping the capsule in their mouth as some in their testimonials recommend for acute issues. My wife is now up to 3 capsules a day, but I anticipate at least 3 weeks minimum to have any effect. Will test for at least 6 weeks if she is willing.

 

I will share anything I come up with if only to share with others who have not researched as deeply as you. I appreciate the effort.

 

Thanks again.

[matteroftime]

Thanks, man. Please, keep us informed.

[Kinesis]

 

Thanks for the information. I am weighing PEA for possible addition for my wife's pain. Vitalitus claims 3.17 μm average with a standard deviation of .64 μm. I guess that would be close to 100% within the ultra-fine. Their capsules are 350 mgs.

 

Thoughts?

 

matteroftime, the passage you quoted above in post #10 from the website has numbers implying references, but I can not find the references. Can you?

 

"Fine particles (around 25 micron) have been found to prevent inflammation (for example prophylaxis of flu) [4],

Very fine particles (between 15-10 microns) are effective against for joint pains [5], fibromyalgia [6] and peripheral nerve pain, such as hernia [7], and

Ultra-fine particles have a significant influence on glia tissue, of great importance in chronic pain [8][9].

 

 

Thanks for the heads up, Heisok.  As noted in the Lostfalco thread, I started using palmitoylethanolamide around the first of last May (http://www.longecity...109#entry775889).  For context, I am a 58 year old male.  I used two 350 mg Vitalitus caps daily, at first several hours apart then later together with a meal.  The executive summary is that it did not enable me to leap tall buildings in a single bound, but neither did it cause any untoward effects.

 

At the time I began taking it, I was taking 75 mg amitriptyline daily for chronic neck and shoulder pain.  Over the course of a few weeks, I was able to reduce the amitriptyline to 25 mg without any increase in pain.  Evidently the combination of the 25 mg amitriptyline and 700 mg palmitoylethanolamide provided the same degree of benefit as the 75 mg amitriptyline.  This was very significant for me because amitriptyline is anticholinergic and at the 75 mg dosage was compromising my mental clarity.  In contrast, at the 25 mg dosage I notice virtually no side effects at all.  Meanwhile the palmitoylethanolamide did not cause any of its own.  So the net result was improved mental clarity.

 

This benefit did not diminish over months of use, nor did any negative effects appear.  At no time did I notice any effect on my mental state, which is important to me as I tend to be sensitive to things that affect mental state, for example, on occasion even one glass of wine has been known to trigger a panic attack.  So in my opinion, at least at this dosage level this is a very clean compound and consistent with the studies I've read can be taken with most other supplements and medications without adverse effect.

 

It is possible that the palmitoylethanolamide may have contributed on its own to improved mental clarity, but due to the change in the dosage of another compound I couldn't say whether or not that was the case for me.

 

In light of some of this discussion as to form and availability, let me note that I virtually always took palmitoylethanolamide with a fat-containing meal.  This is an amphipathic molecule, like common fatty acids.  It is a lipid.  It's worth noting that water solubility is not a prerequisite for absorbability and availability.  After all we're able to absorb and utilize dietary fat just fine even though it is not water soluble.  It is commonly recommended that supplements of fat-soluble vitamins like D and E be taken with a fat containing meal, so absent clear evidence to the contrary absorption and utilization of palmitoylethanolamide should not be an issue if it is taken the same way.

 

Of course neither my experience nor the systematic studies that have been done guarantee that supplementing with palmitoylethanolamide will have any desirable effect on any one other individual, but they do suggest a lack of downside in trying it.

Edited by Kinesis, 29 January 2017 - 04:27 PM.

[matteroftime]

Thanks, Kinesis, a really good insight

[fntms]

I have been taking the PEAcure pills 3xday for a week, switching from the powder from Nootropics Depot. The pills do feel 'stronger' (ie at times there is a subjective 'feel good' feeling which might be placebo or something else of course), but overall it doesn't seem to make a huge difference yet. Both offer some pain reduction and I will go on experimenting with PEA. Some renewed gastric issues with the higher dose (I used to take about 500-750mg, now 1.2g) which need monitoring though.
The powder inside the caps is indeed much finer than the bulk powder form nootropics depot.
Teamtlr sells bulk micronized PEA but it is more expensive than the Peacure caps...

[matteroftime]

A really recent study!

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4676767/

[matteroftime]

Hey, guys. All our questions can be answered today . This is what I just got from PeaCure, they are having a live webinar and it's here
https://www.facebook...13284502175078/

You're Invited! Facebook Live Webinar Starts Today 12:30PM EST

Dear CENSORED,

We are proud to announce that Dr Frank (Health Specialist) will host a live webinar directly on February 23, 2017 at 12:30PM EST.

This is your chance to directly ask Dr Frank anything you want about pain and P.E.A. Cure.

We would like to personaly invite you to attend and also share this wonderful opportunity with your friends and family who you feel would benefit from learning more about P.E.A. Cure and pain management

Click Here To Join The Facebook Live Webinar


Dr Harrison 'Gabe' Frank
Dr Frank, a native of Northbrook, IL, began his education at the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point, graduating with a degree in Biology. After a 3 year hiatus playing professional basketball at home and overseas, Dr Frank continued his education at the prestigious Jefferson Medical College in Philadelphia.

His training continued at Wake Forest Baptist Health, where he completed a fellowship in NeuroRehabiliation.
Dr Frank has spent the last several years treating several different types of chronic medical conditions. It was during that time that he began his interest in regenerative and anti-aging medicine, and has gone through extensive additional training with the American Academy for Anti-Aging Medicine.

Dr Frank looks to treat the cause of the disease, not just cover it up with medications. As a Rehabilitation physician, Dr Frank focuses on restoring the body to its highest functioning capacity.
By opening the Frank Institute for Health and Wellness, Dr Frank has created a unique, one of a kind practice that focuses on the person as a whole.

As a former professional athlete, I understand the issues with living with daily pain. Prior to my daily use of P.E.A. Cure, I would suffer from almost constant pain. Whether it was my back, knee, ankle, or the pain running down my leg, it was constant.

After about 2 weeks of using P.E.A. Cure, the joint and back pain was 90% better, and the pain in my leg was virtually gone. That is why I am so passionate about P.E.A. Cure, I have seen, not only in myself the relief, but in my patients as well.

As Americans, we are constantly assaulted with unhealthy options, and "quick fixes" for our busy lives. Chronic inflammation is the root cause of most chronic disease processes.

The use of a healthy diet with fresh fruits and vegetables, lean meats, and removal of processed foods are all important in healthy lifestyle.

However, for many that is not enough to relieve pain. It wasn't for me. The addition of P.E.A. Cure into my daily routine has given me back a quality of life I did not think was possible anymore!"

Live Facebook Webinar With Dr Frank
February 23st, 2017 @ 12:30PM EST
Click Here To Join The Facebook Live Webinar

[normalizing]

matteroftime, im interested in PEA the powders they sell online but i read its not as asborbable without MAIO, is this true? like, if you just swallow the powder, will it even do anything? im mostly interested in it for depression if it works for that in any way. im just not sure how ill react and if its possible to benefit from just swallowing the powder alone

[matteroftime]

To be honest, I don't know for sure. It definitely IS absorbable. It will definitely have some benefits. However, if you want to take powder, many people just put it under their tongues, which greatly improves apsorbability. The taste is not perfect (provided there are no taste modulators - I would not recommend taking PEA with any additions), but you don't do it for the taste anyway.

 

When buying a powder, make sure you buy a good product. I can't claim anything as I've only tried PEA Cure capsules, but fntms says he switched from nootrpoics depot powder to capsules and feel the difference, the capsules being noticeably better. You can see his post on this page, a few answers above.

 

The way you take it is sure to make a difference, but I think that quality should be the first criterion. Taking a bad product in the best way is definitely worse than taking a good one in the worst way (save for some incredibly creative ways ).

 

 

[SearchHorizon]

Just wanted to report my experience with PEA. I took two versions (1) Vitalitus and (2) Nootropic Depot.  I had the same/identical effects from both brands.

 

I took them not for pain management/neuropathy, but to help me with my diet and weight training.

 

After few days of taking it 600 mg (every morning), I experienced significant loss in power/strength. On the other hand, I could manage more reps on each lift. On treadmill, I had difficulty running at higher speeds. No change in my appetite and no change in mood. One significant effect is decreased libido/sexual function, unfortunately. I repeated the test with PEA 3 times, and the effects were the same each time.

 

I had given my mother the same stuff. She also experienced diminished running ability at higher speeds.

 

---------------------

 

Conclusion - It appears that PEA's role as PPAR-alpha activator is consistent with what I observed. Basically, it seems to shift my body into a mode where it enhances fat metabolism (not necessarily lipolysis, however), to cope with what I'd guess is lack of food. Decreased sexual function is consistent with what I have experienced during times of my dieting (with significant caloric deficit). Most likely, PEA is part of a larger, physical response by our body to cope with stresses that are associated with hunger/energy deprivation.

 

 

 

[j87]

Has anyone tried the non-micronized stuff sublingually? 

[matteroftime]

I haven't, honestly. This one worked for me and I have no need to experiment. Please do let us know of your experience.

[SearchHorizon]

matteroftime - I have started giving PEA to my mother for managing postherpetic shingles pain.

 

You mentioned that there is an upper limit as to how much one can absorb at once. Do you have any idea as to how much that might be? I'd appreciate any information you can provide.

 

[matteroftime]

From what I have gathered in the meantime, it is highly individual. The issue is that FAAH and NAAA enzymes dissolve it rather quickly, so whatever you don't take in, you simply waste. 

 

Now, that being individual, there are some general guidelines. Speaking in DAILY terms, anyone should be able to absorb 1200 mg. Double as much (2400 mg a day) is manageable for most people (this is what they recommend for people who require fast buildup) and up to 3600 mg is as high as anyone should go and only if they really need fast buildup and they are willing to do a leap of faith based on their own assumed extraordinary absorption capacities. More than that is usually considered definitely wasted.

 

I have found rumors of liposomal PEA in the books, which should improve absorption. If you need info on liposomes, let me know, but I guess there are topics regarding that here.

[SearchHorizon]

I will try 2400 mg ed. I appreciate the info. 

[matteroftime]

My pleasure. Please share your experience. 

[j87]

Been taking 1 - 2 per day for almost a month, so far nothing. I wonder if this is ineffective for autoimmune disorders (ankylosing sponylitis)? Joint paint is much worse since my curcumin ran out. Might have made my eczema a tiny bit better, hard to tell.

[Rusty Shackelford]

I use this one.

 

https://www.amazon.c...oylethanolamide

 

Maybe you should increase the dose to 1200 mg a day

 

 

 

[matteroftime]

Yeah, I think the low dosage could be the problem. Try upping it to at least 1200-2400 mg a  day. 

 

As for ankylosing spondylitis, it should be beneficial, since it is good against inflammation. It should also help with pain. I hope this helps you. I have a friend with AS and I know it can be hell. Young guy too

[MankindRising]

Any way of maximizing the absorption?

I bought the PeaPURE from a website here in Holland, label suggest to take either with or after a meal. Ive done my own little bit of research and it shows it has very poor water solubility, but cant find much on fat solubility so some help be welcome.

[matteroftime]

I'd go with liposomal palmitoylethanolamide for maximal absorption. Honestly, I haven't seen a better way. The taste is not the best, but I take it with mango juice and all cool

[MankindRising]

I'd go with liposomal palmitoylethanolamide for maximal absorption. Honestly, I haven't seen a better way. The taste is not the best, but I take it with mango juice and all cool

Like I said I allready bought PeaPURE and looking to maximizing absorption, if I like the supplement after finishing it I will decide to switch to another form or not, but Im using a fair bit of other stuff and cost benefit ratio is also at stake.

 

So.

 

How to maximize the effects of PeaPURE?

[MankindRising]

Feel that its allready working, feels a bit like stupidity and sedation in a pill, not sure if I want to stick with this. I cant even seem to properly form sentences? weird af.

[matteroftime]

Wow, that's strange. I've never heard of anything like that. I've read tons of studies and there have been no psychoactive side effects, or pretty much any side effects with PEA. Could it be anything else?

 

With capsules, the only thing I can suggest to improve absorption is to open the capsule and put the powder under your tongue. It is absorbed really quickly.

[MankindRising]

Wow, that's strange. I've never heard of anything like that. I've read tons of studies and there have been no psychoactive side effects, or pretty much any side effects with PEA. Could it be anything else?

 

With capsules, the only thing I can suggest to improve absorption is to open the capsule and put the powder under your tongue. It is absorbed really quickly.

Funny thing is that I normally have excessive thoughts/repetitive behavior/overthinking lol, but this seems to be the complete opposite! Maybe I should try 50 or 100mg, the capsules are 400mg, I got a milligram scale so will try again tomorrow or another day.

I do have ASD btw, which is the reason why I tried it. Seen some promising studies claiming it made kids more social, however I find it rather dulling and dont think I could participate in any form of social activities like this. The feeling reminds me a bit of baclofen, but baclofen made me tearfull this dont. Either way I hated baclofen, absolutely kills any form of reward.

[matteroftime]

Sorry to hear that. I'm not sure 50 or 100 would do much. PEA is quickly degraded by two very powerful enzymes, so smaller quantities would just get degraded more quickly. Hence the whole talk about improving absorption with fatty foods, sublingual use or liposomes. 

I mean, don't get me wrong, try it, maybe it will work. You have nothing to lose. I'm just sharing what I think based on the experience and information from studies. 

Do the studies you read say anything about the amounts taken per day?

Oh, just got another idea. Does the label of PeaPure say anything about any added substances? Maybe the strange effects are due to them?

[MankindRising]

Sorry to hear that. I'm not sure 50 or 100 would do much. PEA is quickly degraded by two very powerful enzymes, so smaller quantities would just get degraded more quickly. Hence the whole talk about improving absorption with fatty foods, sublingual use or liposomes. 

I mean, don't get me wrong, try it, maybe it will work. You have nothing to lose. I'm just sharing what I think based on the experience and information from studies. 

Do the studies you read say anything about the amounts taken per day?

Oh, just got another idea. Does the label of PeaPure say anything about any added substances? Maybe the strange effects are due to them?

I wont give up on it yet, Ill try another day taking half the capsule. By looking at other posts in this thread I seen 1 person complain about it lowering their libido, I can understand how PEA can do this with long term administration in people.

 

And yeah I know, PEA has lots of studies behind it hence me trying it.

 

PeaPURE is legit btw, lots of people use it. Has zero fillers, uses veggie caps.