71 replies to this topic

[Heisok]

My wife and I tried PEA. This is from my comment a long time ago, so I am simply pasting it here. Further information is not memorable, as we did not continue taking it. " We are on day 2, and we both separately reported spaciness.  Strange feeling."

"

If the quote below is accurate, then it might explain some of the mental effects one might have.

 

"Endocannabinoids have analgesic/anti-inflammatory properties. The biology of endocannabinoids, their receptors, signalling mechanisms and role in the regulation of physiological processes have been extensively reviewed. This review focuses on the role of palmitoylethanolamide (PEA), an endogenous fatty acid amide analogue of the endocannabinoid anandamide, in tissue protective mechanisms. PEA was first identified almost five decades ago in lipid extracts of various natural products, and its anti-inflammatory and antinociceptive effects were established later. Evidence exists that PEA is synthesised during inflammation and tissue damage and a number of beneficial effects, including the relief of inflammation and pruritus, have been shown to be useful in the control of neurogenic and neuropathic pain. The postulated hypotheses as to the mode of action of PEA include a possible local autacoid-like mediator activity regulating mast-cell activity and putative activation of cannabinoids and vanilloid TRPV1 receptors via "entourage" effects. The large number of scientific investigations into the effects of PEA and PEA-related compounds has given rise to new therapeutic opportunities. In spite of the multitude of therapies currently employed to control inflammation, pain, pruritus and tissue damage, the possibility of using a natural compound, such as PEA to manipulate endogenous protective mechanisms may be considered a beneficial novel therapeutic strategy in veterinary medicine."

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16324856

[matteroftime]

@Heisok

I'm not sure why you think being an analogue of the endocannabinoid anandamide would cause such effects that MankindRIsing mentioned. Maybe the 'bliss' molecule point? It positively affects motivation and pleasure (the great feeling after a workout is due to anandamide in part), but that is not what MankindRising described, provided I understood correctly. It seemed quite the opposite to me.

 

If anything, the corresponding effects of PEA and AEA through entourage effect are a good thing. And the fact that there are more of them means that they stay in the body for longer since the same enzyme is responsible for breaking them down.

 

PS Also not saying you meant that, but just in case you did - if you are referring to the effects of exogenous cannabinoids like THC and connecting that to the altered feeling, neither PEA nor AEA have been found to affect the endocannabinoid system in such a way. ECS exists in the body regardless of those substances and their effects. Just like drinking alcohol in large amounts causes havoc in coordination that functions normally otherwise, when you eat chocolate, for example. In the analogy ECS would be the coordination, THC would be the alcohol and PEA would be the chocolate. Affecting the ECS as such does not mean it produces those unwanted effects.

 

I'm sorry if you did not mean this and it sounds like I am patronizing. This is really not my intention. For all I know, you know more about ECS than I do. I just wanted to clear that out in case you meant that.
 

Edited by matteroftime, 29 November 2018 - 09:16 AM.

[Heisok]

Hi matteroftime, you are not being condescending at all. Thanks for taking the time.

 

I was trying to report an apparent mental effect anecdotally associated with us starting to take PEA. Different than MankindRising, but  I was indirectly encouraging them that they were not the only one who felt some effect. It was not meant to discourage them from going further with their using it.

[MankindRising]

I find the effect rather sedating and dulling, I definetely felt some kind of memory impairment. Also I didnt feel the urge to talk at all, people were talking to me irl and I just stood listened and didnt respond? very very weird experience. I wouldnt say it felt like a bad trip or anything, but I surely found it to be more potent than I expected.

Just to make it clear: it definetely had a bad effect on my reward system so to speak, watching tv felt 'empty'.

[Daniel Cooper]

I have taken large doses of PEA (1800mg/day) and found no psychogenic/mood altering effects and from my understanding of the MOA do not believe there should be any of significance.

 

 

 

[Heisok]

You might be right taken in isolation.

 

Thing is, we do not know how it interacts with other substances, and the brain. There was recently a study where they added PEA to Risperidone for ASD children. "combination of PEA and risperidone had superior efficacy in ameliorating the ABC-irritability and hyperactivity/noncompliance symptoms" So , less irritability and hyperactivity/noncompliance. Could that indicate that the added PEA changed, potentiated or added to the mental/physical effects of Risperidone. Is that a psychogenic/mood altering change beyond Risperidone alone? I only know what effect it appeared to have on me, and what effect mankindRising is reporting. I am not piling on PEA due to mankindRising's experience. I reported the effect on two of us back in 2017.  I still had 2 unopened bottles. I took some yesterday under the tongue. I will repeat that several times over the next month or so. I will say what appeared to happen. It will not prove anything either way.

 

"Inflammation as well as glutamate excitotoxicity have been proposed to participate in the propagation of autism. Palmitoylethanolamide (PEA) is an endocannabinoid proven to prevent glutamatergic toxicity and inhibit inflammatory responses simultaneously. The present randomized, parallel group, double-blind placebo-controlled trial is the first study depicted to probe the efficacy of co-treatment with risperidone and PEA over 10 weeks in children with autism. Seventy children (aged 4–12 years) with autism and moderate to severe symptoms of irritability were randomly assigned to two treatment regimens. The study outcomes were measured using the Aberrant Behavior Checklist-Community Edition (ABC-C). At trial endpoint (week 10),  (Cohen's d, 95% confidence interval (CI) = 0.94, 0.41 to 1.46, p = 0.001) compared with a risperidone plus placebo regimen. Interestingly, effect of combination treatment on hyperactivity symptoms was also observed at trial midpoint (week 5) but with a smaller effect size (d = 0.53, p = 0.04) than that at the endpoint (d = 0.94, p = 0.001). Meanwhile, there was a trend toward significance for superior effect of risperidone plus PEA over risperidone plus placebo on inappropriate speech at trial endpoint (d = 0.51, p = 0.051). No significant differences existed between the two treatment groups for the other two ABC-C subscales (lethargy/social withdrawal and stereotypic behavior). The findings suggest that PEA may augment therapeutic effects of risperidone on autism-related irritability and hyperactivity. Future studies are warranted to investigate whether PEA can serve as a stand-alone treatment for autism."

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29807317

 

I have taken large doses of PEA (1800mg/day) and found no psychogenic/mood altering effects and from my understanding of the MOA do not believe there should be any of significance.

 

Edited by Heisok, 30 November 2018 - 07:41 PM.

[MankindRising]

You might be right taken in isolation.

 

Thing is, we do not know how it interacts with other substances, and the brain. There was recently a study where they added PEA to Risperidone for ASD children. "combination of PEA and risperidone had superior efficacy in ameliorating the ABC-irritability and hyperactivity/noncompliance symptoms" So , less irritability and hyperactivity/noncompliance. Could that indicate that the added PEA changed, potentiated or added to the mental/physical effects of Risperidone. Is that a psychogenic/mood altering change beyond Risperidone alone? I only know what effect it appeared to have on me, and what effect mankindRising is reporting. I am not piling on PEA due to mankindRising's experience. I reported the effect on two of us back in 2017.  I still had 2 unopened bottles. I took some yesterday under the tongue. I will repeat that several times over the next month or so. I will say what appeared to happen. It will not prove anything either way.

 

"Inflammation as well as glutamate excitotoxicity have been proposed to participate in the propagation of autism. Palmitoylethanolamide (PEA) is an endocannabinoid proven to prevent glutamatergic toxicity and inhibit inflammatory responses simultaneously. The present randomized, parallel group, double-blind placebo-controlled trial is the first study depicted to probe the efficacy of co-treatment with risperidone and PEA over 10 weeks in children with autism. Seventy children (aged 4–12 years) with autism and moderate to severe symptoms of irritability were randomly assigned to two treatment regimens. The study outcomes were measured using the Aberrant Behavior Checklist-Community Edition (ABC-C). At trial endpoint (week 10),  (Cohen's d, 95% confidence interval (CI) = 0.94, 0.41 to 1.46, p = 0.001) compared with a risperidone plus placebo regimen. Interestingly, effect of combination treatment on hyperactivity symptoms was also observed at trial midpoint (week 5) but with a smaller effect size (d = 0.53, p = 0.04) than that at the endpoint (d = 0.94, p = 0.001). Meanwhile, there was a trend toward significance for superior effect of risperidone plus PEA over risperidone plus placebo on inappropriate speech at trial endpoint (d = 0.51, p = 0.051). No significant differences existed between the two treatment groups for the other two ABC-C subscales (lethargy/social withdrawal and stereotypic behavior). The findings suggest that PEA may augment therapeutic effects of risperidone on autism-related irritability and hyperactivity. Future studies are warranted to investigate whether PEA can serve as a stand-alone treatment for autism."

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29807317

Let me tell you first hand that the term 'autism' is extremely broad. I have a tremendous amount of knowledge on the asd/autism subject and especially I have seen dramatic and often even OPPOSING responses to certain meds supplements, where 1 autistic kid is cure can literally be toxic to someone with asd.

This is also why Ive been pushing so hard for genetic testing, it can unveil what speculation cannot. Lots of kids with classical autism have seizures, hyperdopaminergic state, while high functioning autism/asd is often characterized by social deficits due to excessive serotonin/low dopamine/oxytocin mutations and have no seizures.

Sulforapane for example works in ASD models by weakening te gaba-ergic tone and allowing glutamatergic processes to become somewhat normal again (due to hyperammonia state being lifted).

 

The whole glutamate thing people also have to realise is not like an off switch, there are multiple receptors, multiple brain areas, kainate receptors etc etc etc. In fact multiple studies also have shown that lots of forms of autism are mixed hypo/hyper glutamatergic states depending on the brain region.

 

L-Theanine was another example that felt like stupidity in a pill, felt absolutely horrible, I barely could even speak and im not joking.

I seem to respond to piracetam and other pro-glutamatergic substances and I have aspergers/asd.

 

Sometimes I get so pissed when people think classical autism = asd. it is NOT.

 

Either way I can see why its a relieve to people who suffer from chronic pain, the analgesia was definetely there.

This is by no means an attack on PEA, I believe its very usefull for tons of people it just happens so to not be my thing.

Edited by MankindRising, 01 December 2018 - 10:35 AM.

[MankindRising]

I have taken large doses of PEA (1800mg/day) and found no psychogenic/mood altering effects and from my understanding of the MOA do not believe there should be any of significance.

It felt like a mild version of what l-theanine did to me, mentally sedating and felt like just got an IQ drop of 40 points. I suspect it lowers glutamate too much in me. Generally speaking just a very weird state of mind, literally watching tv I can see whats happening but it feels as if it doesnt get processed in my brain, if someone was to ask me what Ive just seen on tv 10secs earlier or what was discussed I wouldnt be able to answer.

[Moyshekapoyre]

Wow, I was not expecting to find anything bad about PEA to be honest. I love this stuff. I fry it up in red palm oil with black pepper. Maxes absorption plus the luteolin in red palm oil is synergistic (hence the brand name formulation Mirica). 

 

It doesn't get me "high" but... balanced!

 

Wife wants a divorce? Ok! No problem. That's just life! What's the best approach? Let's see!

 

Ok that's a ton of exclamation marks there for not being high! I promise, that's the last one. I'm really not high.

 

I feel relaxed and alert at the same time. Much less spacey than most other things that boost mood, and more chillax.

 

Food tastes better, but I have no desire to eat -- I can take anything or leave anything. Makes no difference. Yet despite having almost no preferences, I end up doing stuff rather than being lazy. I don't even understand why.

 

Sense pleasure is heightened. I like to just feel stuff.

 

Much more empathy. 

 

It reminds me of full spectrum CBD a bit, maybe at a dose of like 50mg or 100mg... 

 

But I'm glad that I found out this is not the perfect thing for everyone. Bubble busted.

 

Btw it blocks the effects of cocaine, nicotine, THC, vaporized DMT, and it puts other drug effects in the "background"... I took some ayahuasca for example, and it's like I can ignore the ayahuasca effects (also no nausea), or I can tune into them, at will! Same with caffeine--the caffeine jitters are there, but in the background, almost not affecting me. Insane!

 

I could go to sleep right now or run a marathon!

 

Ok now you are about to say I'm insane, but I believe that Palmitoylethanolamide helped Buddha to become enlightened!

 

The story goes that he was barely eating anything for 6 years of austerities, getting nowhere fast in his meditations.

 

Then one day a young woman brought him some rice pudding (with milk of course, which is high in PEA). He consumed that and found the "middle way" thru his deep power of meditation. Imagine having no PEA in your system at all due to starving yourself for years, then you get a boost: BAM! If there's one phrase to describe PEA I would say it is exactly that: The Middle Way. Perfect balance, and perfect for meditation!

[kurdishfella]

just take faah inhibitors a better way those elevate Palmitoylethanolamide, Anandamidem Oleamide and probably some more things. Because I think Palmitoylethanolamide has a short half life.

[Moyshekapoyre]

just take faah inhibitors a better way those elevate Palmitoylethanolamide, Anandamidem Oleamide and probably some more things. Because I think Palmitoylethanolamide has a short half life.

 

Wow interesting. Actually PEA when dissolved in palm oil doesn't have a short half life... seems to last almost 2 days with a regular dose... and we'll see if taking more makes it last longer...

 

But what FAAH inhibitor would you suggest? Kaempferol seems to be one of the most powerful easy to obtain ones, but I'm not sure what dosage would be needed. Would this work? https://www.amazon.c...uct_top?ie=UTF8

[matteroftime]

Yeah, palmitoylethanolamide has a short half-life, but that is mostly due to FAAH and NAAA enzymes. Taking it in the form of liposomal liquid protects it from those enzymes and greatly increases the effects.