537 replies to this topic

[FunkOdyssey]

I'll just quickly add that I've been experimenting with Jarrow BroccoMax for a few days and this stuff is powerfully active, at least in the high doses I'm using. Although Dr. Fahey didn't specifically recommend it, it uses a patented process to guarantee active myrosinase and Jarrow is a very reputable brand. I'm going to wait longer to provide a detailed review but early results are surprisingly good.

[mrak1979]

Hi Funk,

 

How much are you taking daily?

[Richard McGee]

I've been supplementing BroccoMax by Jarrow Formulas after a combination of listening to Dr Rhonda Patrick's podcasts, and moving to a city with pollution levels higher than I would like. I'd love to know what the best supplement is currently (easily) available on the market right now. I do plan to get into the broccoli seeds/sprouts route at some point but too busy right now. 

 

After some reflection, I've decided to avoid broccoli sprouts, due to the real risk of pathogen ingestion. 

 

I like the BroccoMax formulation, as it contains both the SGS [aka Glucoraphanin], as well as Myrosinase Enzyme from broccoli seed powder.

[FunkOdyssey]

Hi Funk,

How much are you taking daily?

 

4 capsules 3x daily. A couple of clinical trials I saw with positive results used ~60 mg sulforaphane daily so I wanted to at least match that.  I may not continue using such a high dose because it feels like it might be too strong, in a mentally energizing / stimulant sense.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 20 January 2017 - 05:48 PM.

[mrkosh1]

 

I've been supplementing BroccoMax by Jarrow Formulas after a combination of listening to Dr Rhonda Patrick's podcasts, and moving to a city with pollution levels higher than I would like. I'd love to know what the best supplement is currently (easily) available on the market right now. I do plan to get into the broccoli seeds/sprouts route at some point but too busy right now. 

 

After some reflection, I've decided to avoid broccoli sprouts, due to the real risk of pathogen ingestion. 

 

I like the BroccoMax formulation, as it contains both the SGS [aka Glucoraphanin], as well as Myrosinase Enzyme from broccoli seed powder.

 

 

What I've read on sprouting websites is that if you buy organic seeds that are for sprouting, keep the seeds clean, and clean your sprouting jars well there is little chance of getting sick. However, some sprouting websites say that if you are worried that you should dip your seeds in 3% hydrogen peroxide (food grade) for five minutes at 60C and then rinse them.

 

www.foodsafetysite.com/resources/word/factsheets/FSAlfalfaSprouts.pdf

[Harkijn]

This review of supplements  dates from 2014 but still might be of use to Americans who consider supplementinng:

http://nutritionfact...vs-supplements/

[Nate-2004]

This review of supplements dates from 2014 but still might be of use to Americans who consider supplementinng:
http://nutritionfact...vs-supplements/

Well, since I can't stand broccoli or sprouts much less grow my own in this apartment, that bioavailability problem is going to have to be fixed.

[sthira]

This review of supplements dates from 2014 but still might be of use to Americans who consider supplementinng:
http://nutritionfact...vs-supplements/

Well, since I can't stand broccoli or sprouts much less grow my own in this apartment, that bioavailability problem is going to have to be fixed.

I've read previously in your writing that you've a genetic predisposition for disliking fruits and vegetables.

Point taken and respected. But remember that spices are strong and can be used to disguise flavors and textures we may dislike. Some kitchen creativity really pays off.

Also fasting may reset your taste buds and microbiome, and you may just find that completely clearing out your system might tilt you in a plant based direction. What you formerly hated (greens, crucifers) you may just develop a taste to enjoy.

Broccoli sprouts are healthy, obviously, but so are many other sprouts and vegetables, fruits, legumes, nuts, and EVOO. I think we tend to focus on the latest brightly colored object of research, and then exaggerate the claims. I do this, anyway. Broccoli sprouts are just another puzzle piece amongst many puzzle pieces.

Nate, we may be young enough to have a chance of accessing future regenerative advances; but in the meantime we've got nothing better to slow aging except the boring ole basics. And the therapies that come out of labs are going to be wildly expensive at first. To test this idea, I recently inquired into (experimental, unproven, uninsured) stem cell therapies in Panama, Central America. I have a torn knee meniscus that's bothering me, and I've been waiting for years for the damned sheep trials to progress... Anyway, I'm impatient, and here's what I received from a clinic in Panama offering to inject stem cells into my knee:

"...Physicians’ Treatment Protocol Recommendation (Medial Meniscus Tear)

(1) 5 intravenous (IV) injections of expanded allogeneic mesenchymal stem cells;

(2) 1 intra-articular (IA) injections of expanded allogeneic mesenchymal stem cells in knee;

(3) Stem-Kine supplement for the first month (2 jars);

(4) Treatment length 4 days

Pricing

$23,900 US Dollars

Pricing valid 90 days from receipt of this email

Includes:
o Treatment-related medical services and facilities
o Treatment-related laboratory services
o Complimentary 5 night stay at Hilton Panama (standard room) with daily breakfast and Wi-Fi (for 2 adults)
o Complimentary VIP airport gate arrival service (for 2 adults)
o Complimentary Airport and treatment-related transportation service (for 2 adults)"

Why am I writing all this in a broccoli sprouts thread? Forgive me if I'm off-topic (I'm a true believer in sprouts' benefits): broccoli sprouts are a healthier, safer, cheaper alternative to ANY current marketed biotech I've found (at least in relation to knee cartilage regeneration). But broccoli sprouts and broccoli pills are still just one piece of healthy diet and lifestyle while we await tech improvements that offer reasonable accessibility to average citizens.

[Nate-2004]

I have a genetic predisposition for disliking green vegetables like broccoli and spinach, I do enjoy fruits and other roots and stuff. The gene for that is specifically TAS2R38. 

 

I eat plenty of fruits. As far as trying to like green veggies, cooking destroys the benefits and spices don't change the taste enough to matter. Covering it in cheese also seems to negate benefits given casein protein bonds if you buy into the anti-oxidant part. I dunno how burying it in other things like meats and cheeses and breads may affect the benefits or production of sulforaphane.

 

Also I tried fasting again the other day, I even tried several days of working my way up to a full day and couldn't even get to 1pm without realizing I was just too miserable and incapable of thought and it was disrupting all my work because I need to be able to think to function to think I need to eat. Fasting is incredibly miserable for me. I've never been able to push myself longer than a full morning.

 

I'd rather they just figure out why the supplements are less bioavailable and fix that than have to find some way to get 2 day old sprouts and gag a ridiculous amount down my throat several times a day.

Edited by Nate-2004, 21 January 2017 - 04:26 PM.

[Nate-2004]

Glucoraphanin supplements match broccoli sprouts for sulforaphane bioavailability: Study

[Harkijn]

Glucoraphanin supplements match broccoli sprouts for sulforaphane bioavailability: Study

Interesting find, Nate. I hope LCers will read the article, because it is about one specific brand.

 

BTW: You can stomach roots.  In that case I hope daikon is available where you live. It is a root and the variant I eat is encouragingly pale, not at all resembling broccoli or lettuce. Since MrKosh started this thread I eat a few slices of it at every non-crucifer meal and store the rest in my fridge. I eat the slices raw and sometimes tears almost come to my eyes because of the strong taste. Sometimes it is called rettich.

[sthira]

I have a genetic predisposition for disliking green vegetables like broccoli and spinach, I do enjoy fruits and other roots and stuff. The gene for that is specifically TAS2R38.

That's interesting, I checked my 23&Me and for TAS2R38 -- rs10246939 -- I'm C/C. I love bitter tasting foods -- so maybe this partly explains my affinity for foods like mustard and broccoli sprouts.

[Nate-2004]

 

Nate, we may be young enough to have a chance of accessing future regenerative advances; but in the meantime we've got nothing better to slow aging except the boring ole basics. And the therapies that come out of labs are going to be wildly expensive at first. To test this idea, I recently inquired into (experimental, unproven, uninsured) stem cell therapies in Panama, Central America. I have a torn knee meniscus that's bothering me, and I've been waiting for years for the damned sheep trials to progress... Anyway, I'm impatient, and here's what I received from a clinic in Panama offering to inject stem cells into my knee:

"...Physicians’ Treatment Protocol Recommendation (Medial Meniscus Tear)

(1) 5 intravenous (IV) injections of expanded allogeneic mesenchymal stem cells;

(2) 1 intra-articular (IA) injections of expanded allogeneic mesenchymal stem cells in knee;

(3) Stem-Kine supplement for the first month (2 jars);

(4) Treatment length 4 days

Pricing

$23,900 US Dollars

Pricing valid 90 days from receipt of this email

Includes:
o Treatment-related medical services and facilities
o Treatment-related laboratory services
o Complimentary 5 night stay at Hilton Panama (standard room) with daily breakfast and Wi-Fi (for 2 adults)
o Complimentary VIP airport gate arrival service (for 2 adults)
o Complimentary Airport and treatment-related transportation service (for 2 adults)"

Why am I writing all this in a broccoli sprouts thread? Forgive me if I'm off-topic (I'm a true believer in sprouts' benefits): broccoli sprouts are a healthier, safer, cheaper alternative to ANY current marketed biotech I've found (at least in relation to knee cartilage regeneration). But broccoli sprouts and broccoli pills are still just one piece of healthy diet and lifestyle while we await tech improvements that offer reasonable accessibility to average citizens.

 

 

Doesn't sound legit to me. I looked into something similar for essential tremor, there's a big chance they're scamming people. I'm not sure if what they're describing is how stem cell therapy would work for knees.

 

The over hesitation with regards to human experimentation is obnoxiously absurd, especially in the U.S.  "I wouldn’t want to rush into human trials yet" .... well why the fuck not? There are people willing to consent, then do it. You're otherwise wasting time with your false ethics and meanwhile people are suffering and dying, how ethical is that?

 

I have a genetic predisposition for disliking green vegetables like broccoli and spinach, I do enjoy fruits and other roots and stuff. The gene for that is specifically TAS2R38.

That's interesting, I checked my 23&Me and for TAS2R38 -- rs10246939 -- I'm C/C. I love bitter tasting foods -- so maybe this partly explains my affinity for foods like mustard and broccoli sprouts.

 

 

What is C/C?

 

I wonder if CRISPR can turn that on/off or whatever it should be for that.

[sthira]

I have a genetic predisposition for disliking green vegetables like broccoli and spinach, I do enjoy fruits and other roots and stuff. The gene for that is specifically TAS2R38.

That's interesting, I checked my 23&Me and for TAS2R38 -- rs10246939 -- I'm C/C. I love bitter tasting foods -- so maybe this partly explains my affinity for foods like mustard and broccoli sprouts.

What is C/C?

It means I can taste bitterness. Apparently some people cannot. Who knew?

https://www.snpedia.....php/Rs10246939

Somehow I don't think ability to taste bitterness is so simple. There are probably a variety of reasons why green vegetables disgust you.

Edited by sthira, 21 January 2017 - 05:58 PM.

[mrkosh1]

Nate,

 

Here is an idea I have came up with.

 

1) Process the sprouts via heat at 60C for ten minutes.

 

2) Grind them in  mortar and pestle to mix the precursor and enzyme.

 

3) Allow to sit for a period of time for sulforaphane to be formed.

 

4) Find an ice tray that has tiny itty bitty compartments.

 

5) Mix the the broccoli sprout slurry with a tiny bit of water.

 

6) Fill each small compartment.

 

7) Allow to freeze. The freezing process should not degrade the sulforaphane over short periods of days to weeks.

 

8) Swallow frozen cubes with water.

 

Doing this, I'm guessing the taste would be minimal. The only issue I can think of is freezing your esophogus.

[FunkOdyssey]

Glucoraphanin supplements match broccoli sprouts for sulforaphane bioavailability: Study

 

Important to note: the supplement used in that study did not provide myrosinase, and the resulting bioavailability is a product of endogenous microbiome myrosinase activity, which varies greatly from person to person (bioavailability ranges from 1% to 40% according to Dr. Fahey).  For actual use, you would instead prefer a supplement providing active myrosinase, which increases bioavailability of sulforaphane from glucoraphanin from 10% to around 50% IIRC (these study results are discussed in Rhonda's interview with Fahey), compared to 70-80% for sulforaphane itself.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 21 January 2017 - 05:59 PM.

[Nate-2004]

BroccoMax does have the enzyme from what I see on Amazon. I got Source Naturals but not sure that was a good choice.

As for the ice cube method above that sounds like so much work especially considering all the work I put into hydrogen water, which is the only thing besides propranolol that significantly helps with tremor.

[Nat1971a]

Is anyone else taking brocolli sprouts and niagen together?

 

Is anyone else experiencing the super charging effect?

 

Is anyone else healing injuries that won't heal like i have?

[joelcairo]

I believe BroccoMax didn't originally contain myrosinase. I've taken it for a couple of years, and originally there was no mention of it anywhere in the labeling.

[FunkOdyssey]

I believe BroccoMax didn't originally contain myrosinase. I've taken it for a couple of years, and originally there was no mention of it anywhere in the labeling.

 

That's correct.  It was re-formulated sometime in 2015 to include myrosinase (at the same time, the label changed from the old green background to the new white).

[Nate-2004]

 

I believe BroccoMax didn't originally contain myrosinase. I've taken it for a couple of years, and originally there was no mention of it anywhere in the labeling.

 

That's correct.  It was re-formulated sometime in 2015 to include myrosinase (at the same time, the label changed from the old green background to the new white).

 

 

Good to know, probably in response to that study showing issues with bioavailability. I'll get BroccoMax from now on.

Is anyone else taking brocolli sprouts and niagen together?

 

Is anyone else experiencing the super charging effect?

 

Is anyone else healing injuries that won't heal like i have?

 

I'm pretty sure this is placebo you're experiencing but no, nothing out of the ordinary here so far but then again I think I got the wrong brand.

[mrkosh1]

Is anyone else taking brocolli sprouts and niagen together?

 

Is anyone else experiencing the super charging effect?

 

Is anyone else healing injuries that won't heal like i have?

 

I have not taken broccoli sprouts or Niagen (nicotinamide riboside) together yet, but it is my intention to do so. When I take 240mg of LEF Brand R-ALA I get an energy spike that lasts a couple days. My guess is the energy spike comes from R-ALA activating NRF2, PGC1a, and therefore NQO1 which recycles NADH (spent NAD+) back into NAD+. This increases the NAD+/NADH ratio. Interesting, there are papers on PubMed (if you require them I can look them up again) that show sulforaphane boosts NQO1 at a much lower concentration than R-ALA. If I'm remembering correctly, it was an order of magnitude less. Since R-ALA is far less absorbable by the body than sulforaphane, this is important.

 

I would really like for someone to perform a self-test in which they heat/blend broccoli sprouts, consume them, and then write down how they feel at different points throughout the day afterwards, hour by hour. Then, after a washout period of a few days (the NRF2 activation by sulforaphane is claimed not to totally fade away for a couple days) try the same with a decent dose of nicotinamide riboside. Finally, after a few more days of washout, they could take both at the same time.

 

My guess is that the sulforaphane and NR combined would boost the NAD+/NADH ratio higher than either one of them individually. I think this should result in a boost of energy.

 

Since we don't have a professional lab doing such tests (measuring levels of these compounds) we need to do this ourselves. 

[mrkosh1]

It could be placebo or it might not. For example, this is what the author of Self Hacked had to say about what he experienced after consuming four ounces of sprouts blended together. Please note that if he had pre-heated the sprouts to 60C for several minutes, the total amount of sulforaphane could have doubled.

 

https://selfhacked.c...s-sulforaphane/

 

 

I started consuming Broccoli Sprouts about 5 years ago, but stopped about 9 months ago after I didn’t notice any significant effects.

I used to cut the top or green part off and put them on a salad.

I decided to revisit broccoli sprouts as a result of me being afraid of cancer and an improved understanding of gut health.

In particular, indoles in cruciferous veggies are very important for gut health. Indoles shift the metabolism of trypotophan to serotonin, instead of kynurenine. (R)

I’ve also been afraid of getting/having a possible bacterial infection, which often produce products that block the Vitamin D Receptor and cause autoimmune disease.   Broccoli sprouts are strong anti-microbials.

However, I realized there was a gap between my experience and the research.  Whenever this happens I step back and ask why.  In this case, I figured I just wasn’t getting enough.

So then I thought it will be too annoying to buy more broccoli sprouts and cut the top off.  I then wondered what would happen if I just put the whole container in the blender – with the bottom.

I didn’t do that before because I wasn’t sure if the bottom part was edible.  Well, I still don’t know, but years of experimentation have made me somewhat fearless (perhaps a little too much for my own good).

My Result? The effects are  day and night from consuming the green part to putting the whole thing in a blender.

It’s extremely powerful.  The effects are similar to high dose R-lipoic acid (700mg), but it’s better.  Both are HDAC inhibitors.  The broccoli sprouts are also antimicrobial, which lipoic acid doesn’t have.

It’s relaxing, an anti-depressant and potent anti-inflammatory and antioxidant.  It felt like it would steamroll any negative gut pathogens in its way.

Overall, it’s very powerful and I now know I’m getting the full effects when I do this.  I wouldn’t want any more of an effect, anyway.

It’s critical that you put the whole container in the blender.  I bought a 4 oz container.

On the downside, it temporarily decreases cognitive function, as does all  powerful anti-oxidants.  The brain needs some ROS to function properly.   It’s honestly too strong to take daily.  But if I had cancer I would take it daily.

When I take it at night it keeps me up, so I don’t recommend taking it at night.

[tintinet]

Just ordered seeds and sprouting containers.

[Nate-2004]

 

It could be placebo or it might not. For example, this is what the author of Self Hacked had to say about what he experienced after consuming four ounces of sprouts blended together. Please note that if he had pre-heated the sprouts to 60C for several minutes, the total amount of sulforaphane could have doubled.

 

https://selfhacked.c...s-sulforaphane/

 

 

I started consuming Broccoli Sprouts about 5 years ago, but stopped about 9 months ago after I didn’t notice any significant effects.

I used to cut the top or green part off and put them on a salad.

I decided to revisit broccoli sprouts as a result of me being afraid of cancer and an improved understanding of gut health.

In particular, indoles in cruciferous veggies are very important for gut health. Indoles shift the metabolism of trypotophan to serotonin, instead of kynurenine. (R)

I’ve also been afraid of getting/having a possible bacterial infection, which often produce products that block the Vitamin D Receptor and cause autoimmune disease.   Broccoli sprouts are strong anti-microbials.

However, I realized there was a gap between my experience and the research.  Whenever this happens I step back and ask why.  In this case, I figured I just wasn’t getting enough.

So then I thought it will be too annoying to buy more broccoli sprouts and cut the top off.  I then wondered what would happen if I just put the whole container in the blender – with the bottom.

I didn’t do that before because I wasn’t sure if the bottom part was edible.  Well, I still don’t know, but years of experimentation have made me somewhat fearless (perhaps a little too much for my own good).

My Result? The effects are  day and night from consuming the green part to putting the whole thing in a blender.

It’s extremely powerful.  The effects are similar to high dose R-lipoic acid (700mg), but it’s better.  Both are HDAC inhibitors.  The broccoli sprouts are also antimicrobial, which lipoic acid doesn’t have.

It’s relaxing, an anti-depressant and potent anti-inflammatory and antioxidant.  It felt like it would steamroll any negative gut pathogens in its way.

Overall, it’s very powerful and I now know I’m getting the full effects when I do this.  I wouldn’t want any more of an effect, anyway.

It’s critical that you put the whole container in the blender.  I bought a 4 oz container.

On the downside, it temporarily decreases cognitive function, as does all  powerful anti-oxidants.  The brain needs some ROS to function properly.   It’s honestly too strong to take daily.  But if I had cancer I would take it daily.

When I take it at night it keeps me up, so I don’t recommend taking it at night.

 

 

Interesting.

 

From the link earlier in the thread to this review in 2014 it was saying sulforaphane peaks at 2 days. I'm not sure how one would go about eating 2 day old sprouts vs the 9 day old sprouts most grow videos suggest.  It's possible I could grind these up and hide them in a banana smoothie or something. Without any research you never know if changing the way it's eaten or what you eat it with does anything different to it. What does heating it to 60c do?

[mrkosh1]

Actually, neither the seeds or sprouts have sulforaphane. They have the precursor glucoraphenin and the enzyme that converts the precursor into sulforaphane which is called myrosinase. There are a number of different papers that describe the levels of these substances from the seed to the sprouts over several days. Not all of them agree with each other. However, the general tendency is for the levels of glucoraphenin (which is already present in the seed) to gradually decrease over time. This is happening because the glucoraphenin that is in the seed is being distributed into the spout. As the sprout gains weight the quantity of glucaraphenin per gram drops. I did see a couple papers in which the levels of glucoraphenin per gram increased, but in most of them the level of glucoraphenin only decreases.

 

If you only consume glucoraphenin with no myrosinase (for example if you steam, cook, or boil the sprouts) the bacteria in your intestines will convert (usually inefficiently) some of the glucoraphenin into sulforaphane. This is because some bacteria produce myrosinase. The level of sulforaphane created this way is variable from person to person, but on average only about ten percent of the glucoraphenin will be converted to sulforaphane.

 

If you chew sprouts with myrosinase, the conversion process will begin in your mouth. The precursor and myrosinase are kept apart naturally (glucoraphenin in the leaves and myrosinase in the root). Blending them together will optimize the process of converting the precursor into sulforaphane. Interestingly, it is reported that allowing the blended mix to sit for thirty minutes will change the taste significantly because the conversion process will have happened nearly completely.

 

We can optimize this further. There is another enzyme (that we don't want) in the sprouts. It competes with myrosinase and will convert about half or more (this varies depending on the strain of broccoli) of the precursor into a sulforaphane "nitril." The nitril is inert and is not active in the body. But the enzyme that produces the nitril is more temperature sensitive than myrosinase. By heating the sprouts up to 60C (you can push this a little higher maybe to 70C but this is a risk) for several minutes you can destroy the enzyme that creates the nitril. It would have required temperatures of 70C or higher to destroy the myrosinase. The result is that when you blend the sprouts all of the precursor is converted into the active form of sulforaphane.

 

I'm hoping by doing all this that I can produce the same quantity of sulforaphane from one or two ounces of sprouts as I normally would from four.

 

If this increases the levels of NQO1 then it should be synergistic with nicotinamide riboside.

 

BTW, I'm interested in hydrogen water for a number of reasons but also because I have (undiagnosed) essential tremor. I've had it since childhood. It doesn't seem to be getting much worse over time, but I have seen it get substantially worse in my mother.

[Nate-2004]

This all makes good sense now. I'll just do the BroccoMax and I might consider growing some sprouts but the whole set up of jars and seeds and special lids (and the addition of myrosinase if I add that to the mix) costs about 60 bucks or more so I'm going to wait on trying to make smoothies for now. I think at least some supplement companies have caught on to what's needed like they did with curcumin.

 

As for hydrogen water, I've only noticed its effects are around 50% or so give or take 20% at times. It's got its own issues like intestinal problems caused by the process of making it with magnesium. You can find more details in a search for the MK-677 thread on Hydrogen Water.  I've only recently come to the conclusion about its effectiveness because I stopped for a while and the shaking got sooo much worse. I'm not sure if that was a rebound effect or whether it made things worse by making me dependent on it or what. However, I could not deny its initial effects. This is off topic though so I'll refer you to that thread.

[Journey2016]

Ive been reading this post for a few weeks now, is there a recomended product to order that maybe correctly made and will give me the benafits?

I looked at broccmax reviews on amazone and was bot sure it was the real deal.. so i ordered "source naturals" as it had better reviews.

[Harkijn]

This thread is getting long so just in case some people forgot: in post #18 MrKosh pointed out the benefits of eating radish sprouts along with the broccoli sprouts. They are delicious!

[Harkijn]

Though broccoli sprouts are certainly the top provider of glucosinolates, other vegetables have interesting amounts as well. But how to prepare cabbage while retaining it's good properties? This link provides  very practical information about how to microwave red cabbage. http://www.wur.nl/en...ay-333333393533