537 replies to this topic

[Izan]

what about libido? increased, decreased or neutral?

[Nate-2004]

Wow good question. I wanna say it's increased but I don't think it's significant enough to really be any different than the usual waxing and waning I experience throughout any month.

[Oakman]

Given the price point of Avmacol it's better long term to just spend all the money on sprout tools and stuff for heating and blending and all that. I totaled it all out at around $520 for everything, given a Vitamix is the blender you go with. $30 a month or more can add up fast. BroccoMax is only $13.

 

ALSO: The bottle of Avmacol doesn't even show Myrosinase on the list of ingredients, yet it mentions it on that page.

 

I've been looking at various glucoraphanin supps for a while now, trying to decide what I might want to get, and what I don't understand is the vast difference in pricing, say between BroccoMax and Avmacol, for example. Certainly, they both contain myrosinase, but neither say just how much is included.

 

From the Avmacol site ...
 

"What is Avmacol®?  Avmacol® is an innovative supplement that supports sulforaphane production by providing glucoraphanin and an active myrosinase enzyme via our Sulforaphane Production System™."

 

and BroccoMax: "utilizes ultra clean super critical CO2 extraction to ensure a standardized quantity of sulforaphane glucosinolate and myrosinase per serving."

------

BroccoliMax is 60 caps for as low as ~$15 (or ~$27 for 120 caps) serving: 30mg per cap or 1.8g total (30 caps) = $8.33g glucoraphanin

Avmocol is ~$30 for 60 caps serving: 2 caps = 25mg glucoraphanin or 12.5mg glucoraphanin per cap or .75g total = $20g glucoraphanin

 

Right off the bat we're talking almost a 2.4 to 1 ratio of glucoraphanin per capsule, and a vast difference in price/g, so how does Jarrow do that? Is Jarrow cutting corners, or ???, and what is the correct mix of glucoraphanin to myrosinase? Each says they have it, but what is "it" exactly in mg (mcg?).

 

Then there is Swanson, containing: Sulforaphane, (from BroccoPhane® 20:1 broccoli sprout concentrate standardized to 0.4% sulforaphane) or 400mcg /capsule. Sure, it's cheap @$4.49 for 60 caps, but again hard to compare to the others, except that BroccoMax says "in vitro" each cap makes 8mg of sulforaphane. Now 8mg is 8000 (!) mcgs. That's a 20:1 difference between Jarrow and Swanson. But Swanson is saying we get sulforaphane DIRECTLY, whereas the other are left up to the variables of our gut and myrosinase.

I'm probably leaning towards BroccoMax, or maybe that in combination with a simple glucoraphanin cap without myrosinase, to up the overall sulforaphane production. But I'm not sure if there would be sufficient myrosinase to do that? Very confusing.

[Valijon]

This is exactly why I ordered ground up broccoli sprouts. All these products get confusing and possibly expensive. Plus I wanted to be sure I was going to get enough of the active ingredients.

[Nat1971a]

Nate,

 

Do you have any muscle type injuries?

 

If you do keep a mental note of them and advise if they get better

 

Cheers

Nat

[Nate-2004]

I injured/tore my rotator cuff in a bike accident back in December and it's already mostly healed though I can't do more than 5 full pushups yet, I can do 20 pushups with my knees on the floor. It doesn't hurt otherwise except it's a little sore when I wake up in the morning.  This is about 10 times faster than the last time I tore it, but I have to factor in the possibility that I know what to do in terms of exercises as well as the fact that I did not treat it with ice either.

Edited by Nate-2004, 27 January 2017 - 08:44 PM.

[Nat1971a]

i didn't notice the unexpected healing for a couple of weeks. As i have mentioned my achilles never healed in over a year. Now it has. 

[motorcitykid]

what about libido? increased, decreased or neutral?

One of the studies demonstrated a significant drop in DHT levels- that's not a formula for increase libido, quite the opposite.

[mrkosh1]

A few thoughts.

 

1 - On muscle repair, if sulforaphane is significantly inhibiting myostatin in-vivo and upregulating GDF-11, muscle injuries might be healing faster. I wish a group would do a test on human muscle strength and sulforaphane.

 

2 - On essential tremor, I always have worse tremor after heavy lifting. Last year when I was running regularly, the level of tremor afterwards was only slightly worse. However, after having to lift logs and other objects over my head into the bonfire repeatedly for hours, my ET was much worse. If methods to boost NAD+ don't eventually help, I'm thinking of trying CBD oil. There are anecdotal reports of it providing relief. By the way, I read online that many people seem to find a reduction in symptoms of ET after consuming alcohol. I don't think this is a good solution, but something that deserves more research.

 

3 - One way of maximizing the benefits of Broccomax would be to grind up the tablet/capsule with a small amount of water, add a small dash of ground mustard seeds, and let it sit for fifteen to thirty minutes. Consuming the sulforaphane rather than the precursor and myrosinase would double the amount absorbed in your body.

[tintinet]

Given the price point of Avmacol it's better long term to just spend all the money on sprout tools and stuff for heating and blending and all that. I totaled it all out at around $520 for everything, given a Vitamix is the blender you go with. $30 a month or more can add up fast. BroccoMax is only $13.

ALSO: The bottle of Avmacol doesn't even show Myrosinase on the list of ingredients, yet it mentions it on that page.

I own a vitamix. Overpriced- you can get equally effective and powerful blenders for far less $.

http://www.bestbuy.c...p?skuId=9296233

[Nate-2004]

 

what about libido? increased, decreased or neutral?

One of the studies demonstrated a significant drop in DHT levels- that's not a formula for increase libido, quite the opposite.

 

 

I'm taking ~25mg DHEA a day though. Not sure if that's relevant but I haven't lost any libido I don't think. I also take zinc at night before bed, mostly because I take carnosine which chelates it all day so I figure I've lost some? That's my thinking on that.

Edited by Nate-2004, 28 January 2017 - 02:51 PM.

[Nate-2004]

A few thoughts.

 

1 - On muscle repair, if sulforaphane is significantly inhibiting myostatin in-vivo and upregulating GDF-11, muscle injuries might be healing faster. I wish a group would do a test on human muscle strength and sulforaphane.

 

2 - On essential tremor, I always have worse tremor after heavy lifting. Last year when I was running regularly, the level of tremor afterwards was only slightly worse. However, after having to lift logs and other objects over my head into the bonfire repeatedly for hours, my ET was much worse. If methods to boost NAD+ don't eventually help, I'm thinking of trying CBD oil. There are anecdotal reports of it providing relief. By the way, I read online that many people seem to find a reduction in symptoms of ET after consuming alcohol. I don't think this is a good solution, but something that deserves more research.

 

3 - One way of maximizing the benefits of Broccomax would be to grind up the tablet/capsule with a small amount of water, add a small dash of ground mustard seeds, and let it sit for fifteen to thirty minutes. Consuming the sulforaphane rather than the precursor and myrosinase would double the amount absorbed in your body.

 

1. That would be nice if true.

 

2. My tremor keeps getting worse. I don't find much of a reduction with alcohol. There was a report a while back on how ET brains have more harmala in them concluding that there might be some kind of metabolism problem. I never heard anything else after that study, it's like they never pursued it further and have no plans to. Makes no sense to me. I e-mailed the lead on that study asking what's going on with that avenue of research and got no answer. If it's true that harmala is involved then surely that should be a target. Something that breaks it down. Here's everything I've tried so far.

 

3. Mustard seeds have myrosinase?

[Oakman]

I've done a bit more discovery and found some research > IMPROVING THE HEALTH BENEFITS OF BROCCOLI THROUGH MYROSINASE MAINTENANCE

 

It gives a lot of information on cooking, maintaining, and measuring both glucoraphanin and myrosinase in broccoli, mostly things that have been mentioned before in this thread, but in great detail.

 

What was even more interesting to me was the discussion of how to increase myrosinase activity in broccoli by adding supplemental myrosinase. 

 

"In that study, steaming for 3 min proved to be the most beneficial and leave the most myrosinase active. Since myrosinase is found in all members of the brassica genus looking at the possibility of a more thermally stable form from another plant is reasonable. Both daikon radish and mustard seed myrosinase have been shown to possess greater thermal stability than myrosinase found in broccoli (127, 128); the mustard seed up to 70 °C for 10 min (128) and the daikon radish of up to 125 °C for 10 min. This variation again supports the idea that myrosinase vary in their thermal stability and that more work needs to be done to look at the differences in myrosinase content and stability from other sources."

 

So, using one or both of those alternative myrosinases, mustard seed or ideally, daikon radish, would allow cooking, steaming, or perhaps even microwaving of broccoli, or any other vegetable containing glucoraphanin, and maintaining myrosinase activity where it would normally be rendered inactive due to heat. Additionally, if you don't want to use fresh broccoli, it would seem that you could take any of the cheap broccoli extracts, or frozen broccoli, regardless of myrosinase content.

 

Amazon provides a suitable myrosinase active product > Sprout Living Freeze-Dried Red Clover and Daikon Radish Herbal Sprout Mix

 

"Red Clover & Daikon Radish is derived through a unique process that starts by sprouting the finest, certified organic, non-GMO seeds in mineral-rich water and then freeze-drying them in order to lock in their essential nutrients and enzymes and extend shelf-life. Exotic Red Clover Sprouts, which offer powerful isoflavones, a plethora of vitamins and minerals as well as countless other nutrients, are paired with Daikon Radish Sprouts, which contain potent digestive enzymes, vitamin C, potassium and phosphorous. The result is a supremely nutrient-dense, enzymatically active and bioavailable pure sprout powder that can be conveniently consumed in a variety of ways."

[albedo]

... the mustard seed up to 70 °C for 10 min (128) ...

... So, using one or both of those alternative myrosinases, mustard seed or ideally, daikon radish, would allow cooking, steaming, or perhaps even microwaving of broccoli, or any other vegetable containing glucoraphanin, and maintaining myrosinase activity where it would normally be rendered inactive due to heat...

Thank you. Just to be sure I understand: is the point on mustard seed you make here the same that Dr. Michael Greger is making in his video reported before in this thread?
 

[motorcitykid]

 

 

what about libido? increased, decreased or neutral?

One of the studies demonstrated a significant drop in DHT levels- that's not a formula for increase libido, quite the opposite.

 

 

I'm taking ~25mg DHEA a day though. Not sure if that's relevant but I haven't lost any libido I don't think. I also take zinc at night before bed, mostly because I take carnosine which chelates it all day so I figure I've lost some? That's my thinking on that.

 

 

I'm not sure I understand your train of thought here Nate - I think you might be confusing DHEA with DHT?

 

The study demonstrated that sulforofane lowers DHT(dihydrotestosterone) which is different than DHEA(Dehydroepiandrosterone).

 

DHT is an andgrogenic sex hormone. Some people who want or need to have their DHT levels come down take meds (such as Proscar) to lower it and sometimes experience decreased libido as a side affect.

 

If you're taking DHEA I would consider having blood levels tested. You might not even need DHEA, or might be taking too much or maybe not enough. Blood work's the way to go brother. It will ground you and help take the stress out of what could turn into a crazy guessing game. With blood work, you'll feel confident making decisions regarding supplementation because you'll have the indisputable facts and numbers right in front of you. 

 

 

[motorcitykid]

 

 

what about libido? increased, decreased or neutral?

One of the studies demonstrated a significant drop in DHT levels- that's not a formula for increase libido, quite the opposite.

 

 

I'm taking ~25mg DHEA a day though. Not sure if that's relevant but I haven't lost any libido I don't think. I also take zinc at night before bed, mostly because I take carnosine which chelates it all day so I figure I've lost some? That's my thinking on that.

 

 

Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly here Nate, but I think you might be confusing DHEA with DHT(correct me if I'm wrong)?

 

The study demonstrated that sulforofane lowers DHT(dihydrotestosterone) which is different than DHEA(Dehydroepiandrosterone).

 

DHT is an andgrogenic sex hormone. Some people who want or need to have their DHT levels come down take meds (such as Proscar) to lower it and sometimes experience decreased libido as a side affect.

 

If you're taking DHEA I would consider having blood levels tested. You might not even need DHEA, or might be taking too much or maybe not enough. Blood work's the way to go brother. It will ground you and help take the stress out of what could turn into a crazy guessing game. With blood work, you'll feel confident making decisions regarding supplementation because you'll have the indisputable facts and numbers right in front of you.

 

 

[ironfistx]

So can broccomax provide a nice benefit?

The swanson one has sulphoraphane but wasn't there something that said you can't use that directly?

Edited by ironfistx, 28 January 2017 - 08:16 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

I should mention that sulforaphane at high doses did a number on my libido.  In addition to the DHT inhibition it also decreases androgen receptor levels.  This has been demonstrated in prostate cells but I imagine it could occur elsewhere (in the brain this would certainly have anti-sexual effects).

[motorcitykid]

I should mention that sulforaphane at high doses did a number on my libido.  In addition to the DHT inhibition it also decreases androgen receptor levels.  This has been demonstrated in prostate cells but I imagine it could occur elsewhere (in the brain this would certainly have anti-sexual effects).

 

Which brand of sulforaphane did you use?
 

[Oakman]

 

... the mustard seed up to 70 °C for 10 min (128) ...

... So, using one or both of those alternative myrosinases, mustard seed or ideally, daikon radish, would allow cooking, steaming, or perhaps even microwaving of broccoli, or any other vegetable containing glucoraphanin, and maintaining myrosinase activity where it would normally be rendered inactive due to heat...

Thank you. Just to be sure I understand: is the point on mustard seed you make here the same that Dr. Michael Greger is making in his video reported before in this thread?
 

 

 

I believe so, although I don't have time right now to go thru those vids. The daikon is the one you really want, at least if you are heating anything. It wouldn't be affected by up to and including boiling, while still providing the coveted myrosinase you want.

[tintinet]

I should mention that sulforaphane at high doses did a number on my libido. In addition to the DHT inhibition it also decreases androgen receptor levels. This has been demonstrated in prostate cells but I imagine it could occur elsewhere (in the brain this would certainly have anti-sexual effects).

What was your high dose? Source?

[FunkOdyssey]

Jarrow Broccomax at 4 capsules 3x daily (12 total).

[Nate-2004]

 

 

 

what about libido? increased, decreased or neutral?

One of the studies demonstrated a significant drop in DHT levels- that's not a formula for increase libido, quite the opposite.

 

 

I'm taking ~25mg DHEA a day though. Not sure if that's relevant but I haven't lost any libido I don't think. I also take zinc at night before bed, mostly because I take carnosine which chelates it all day so I figure I've lost some? That's my thinking on that.

 

 

Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly here Nate, but I think you might be confusing DHEA with DHT(correct me if I'm wrong)?

 

The study demonstrated that sulforofane lowers DHT(dihydrotestosterone) which is different than DHEA(Dehydroepiandrosterone).

 

DHT is an andgrogenic sex hormone. Some people who want or need to have their DHT levels come down take meds (such as Proscar) to lower it and sometimes experience decreased libido as a side affect.

 

If you're taking DHEA I would consider having blood levels tested. You might not even need DHEA, or might be taking too much or maybe not enough. Blood work's the way to go brother. It will ground you and help take the stress out of what could turn into a crazy guessing game. With blood work, you'll feel confident making decisions regarding supplementation because you'll have the indisputable facts and numbers right in front of you.

 

 

 

 

I'm taking DHEA because I'm also taking MK-677 which raises IGF-1 and GH and apparently that can cause problems with insulin sensitivity if DHEA levels aren't up. I agree though, I should get a bunch of blood work and a 23 and me test.

 

So which study demonstrated that Sulforaphane lowered DHT?

 

Here's one about hair recovery: https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26923074

Edited by Nate-2004, 29 January 2017 - 03:29 AM.

[Nate-2004]

Is there any way to counteract this effect? I mean, as much as I'd love a thick head of hair it's kind of useless without a sex drive lol.

[Harkijn]

 

 

... the mustard seed up to 70 °C for 10 min (128) ...

... So, using one or both of those alternative myrosinases, mustard seed or ideally, daikon radish, would allow cooking, steaming, or perhaps even microwaving of broccoli, or any other vegetable containing glucoraphanin, and maintaining myrosinase activity where it would normally be rendered inactive due to heat...

Thank you. Just to be sure I understand: is the point on mustard seed you make here the same that Dr. Michael Greger is making in his video reported before in this thread?
 

 

 

I believe so, although I don't have time right now to go thru those vids. The daikon is the one you really want, at least if you are heating anything. It wouldn't be affected by up to and including boiling, while still providing the coveted myrosinase you want.

 

The easy thing about daikon IMO is that it is best enjoyed raw, just like radishes. I cut some slices wait a while and add some mustard powder because it tastes good. Sometimes I add daikon as a sidedish to steamed broccoli in order to get some extra sulforaphane. This produces moderate amounts of sulforaphane but , as MrKosh noted, more is not by definition better. (Things might be different if you want to use sulforaphane to fight a medical condition.)

Interesting reading: the SelfHacked website has a new article on H.Pylori . Eating brassica veggies is one of his proposed actions to keep this dangerous virus from thriving.

[Oakman]

Processing Crucifers to Retain Optimal Bioactivity, Elizabeth Jeffery, University of Illinois at Urbana, USDA/ IFAFS, NRI and NCI funding

 

I love presenters that take wordy complexity and make understandable pretty pictures and graphs with it 

[Valijon]

This feels like a clear cut winner. I've been taking 250mg a day of NR for a week. The first day I was very energetic for 5-6 hours. After that I've had a noticable increase in energy but, nothing like day 1. Today I tried some broccoli sprout extract in a 20:1 formulation. 30 minutes after ingestion I have a big surge in energy. Its clean energy like I'd have had say in my early to mid 20s.

Until I can afford say B lapachone, this will be a daily combination.

[Nat1971a]

wow exciting news Valijon!!

[Valijon]

Yes and I hope it continues. I've tried many supplements for energy and was disappointed with most of them. I've never liked the kind of dirty energy imparted by stimulants. I'm yet to try mustard seed extract with this.

[ironfistx]

Now you guys are getting mental benefits from these?