537 replies to this topic

[mikela]

What got me interested in sprouting were the PSA results in Rhonda Patrick's video starting at 6:08.  Since then I have been consuming about half a jar (approximately 60 grams) of sprouts every other day or two.  I have had a PSA level that has been steadfastly rising for a number of years.   The doctors were starting to lean toward a biopsy.  This past years physical was the first time my score actually declined although it was only by a small amount (.2).  I obviously can't say the sulforaphane caused this but I am encouraged.

[Nate-2004]

I've never found store bought broccoli sprouts anywhere, but I live in the middle of Philly and for some reason grocery stores are limited, even Amazon Fresh is limited for some reason. Though that's changing quite a bit.

[albedo]

What got me interested in sprouting were the PSA results in Rhonda Patrick's video starting at 6:08.  Since then I have been consuming about half a jar (approximately 60 grams) of sprouts every other day or two.  I have had a PSA level that has been steadfastly rising for a number of years.   The doctors were starting to lean toward a biopsy.  This past years physical was the first time my score actually declined although it was only by a small amount (.2).  I obviously can't say the sulforaphane caused this but I am encouraged.

Of course, be encouraged and keep monitoring. Congratulations. I am for regular PSA testing and had prostate condition which comes with age (mild BPH or Benign Postate Hyperplasia, diagnosed mainly by a high post void residual). What took me on sulforaphane is also Rhonda Patrick's video where she interviewed Dr. Fahey (see min 27:00 on) and where I learned of a specific supplement available only in France (Prostaphane). I am using it since about a year.
 

[Nat1971a]

ok guys I have an interesting story for you involving niagen and broccoli sprouts.

 

About 5-6 weeks ago I was swimming at a pool with my 2 boys who are 6 and 8.  Anyway my 6 year old jumped on my back while I was swimming and tried to ride me like a surfboard.  Anyway I told him off as you would.   At this time I was taking one hpn niagen pill per day and randomly taking broccoli sprouts (maybe once a week). Either that afternoon or the next morning I started taking two hpn niagen pills per day. Anyway I didn't notice anything wrong with my back for 2 weeks after that.  I was normal. Around this time I foolishly stopped taking niagen to have a break from it.   3 days later my back flared up. Soon I was in massive discomfort, pain and could barely walk.  Couldn't sleep at night from back pain / discomfort...I then started taking my highest dose ever of 3 hpn niagen pills per day and broccoli sprouts (half a teaspoon with water), 1 magnesium tablet and iron supplement.  2 weeks later I am now back to 85 to 90% normal......anyway thought I would share an interesting story.

 

Nat1971a

[j87]

 

Food To Live is now selling sprout powder on amazon, this is the only powder I've found that is made in US. By my calculations 1tbsp should yield 60mg sulforaphane but I am not 100% sure on this. I don't know how much myrosinase is active in the powder, might want to take it along with mustard seed or daikon. 

 

Went to the Food to Live website and was trying to find anything to indicate that this contains sulforaphane or myrosinase...  and found nothing, the words are not even mentioned. It's not organic either, whatever that's worth.

 

Taking another example on Amazon I've tried myself, Sprout Living FD Sprout Mix (Broccoli & Kale) is also made in the USA and is stated to be Freeze Dried (not dried in a rotating drum as they say on Amazon the Food to Live product is) USDA Organic, RAW, Non-GMO, vegan, gluten free, etc.  Sprout Living also mentions isothiocyanates, glucosinolates, and sulforaphane in their product and that it is enzymatically active (maybe and hopefully meaning myrosinase?). Typical conversion % of these products is 0.4% to 0.6% glucosinolates to sulforaphane, so going by other products I've read about. So "if " a product contains myrosinase, which would yield for a typical 3.5 g teaspoon,  ~ 14-21 mg sulforaphane, not 60 mg.

 

Not saying you're wrong, but there do seem to be superior products to potentially provide sulforaphane (from sprouts) out there to be had. And I have nothing to do with any ot these products.

 

 

I've been taking the Food to Live sprout powder along with mustard powder, I can definitely feel it. It feels similar to the broccomax and fresh sprouts. This still seems to be the cheapest powder out there, although I'm always interested to find new alternatives. 

 

As for my calculations, 1tbsp should yield 60mg sulforaphane:

 

According to Rhonda's video, 1 gram of fresh broccoli sprouts = 2.4 umol sulforaphane (0.425 mg)

According to Super Sprouts 1TBSP broccoli sprout powder (5 grams) = 125 grams fresh broccoli sprouts http://usa.superspro...coli-equals.jpg

60mg sulforaphane = 140g fresh sprouts

5.64 grams powder = 60mg sulforaphane

Although Super Sprouts wouldn't reply to my emails asking how much glucoraphanin is contained in a serving, and they don't show the research paper conducted on their powder (they only talk about it).

 

If I am wrong please correct me.
 

[mrkosh1]

I looked for the reference specifically using the term giant mitochondria, but I'm unable to find it. However, I did find a few papers on PubMed indicating that sulforaphane produces mitochondrial fusion. A search for mitochondria, sulforaphane, and fusion will bring thing up. 

 

On another note, 60mg of sulforaphane is a huge dose. We need to remember that this compound, unlike many others, is VERY ABSORBABLE. Mainly due to the HDAC modulating properties, sulforaphane is a hormetic substance. A low dose will enhance the function of normal cells. However, a very high dose will kill them. The good news is that cancer cells are significantly more sensitive to sulforaphane than normal cells. If I had cancer, I might consider working my way up towards such a high dose (or taking a lower dose with many other polyphenols known to have anti-cancer effects) but there's no way I'd consume such a quantity unless something else was killing me. 

 

What bothers me is that there are hardly no papers on the synergy of sulforaphane and other substances on NRF2 activation, SIRT activation, or NQO1 levels, etc. I'd really love to know if there is a synergy similar to that of lipoic acid and acetyl l carnitine. 

 

I think there is a market for five milligram doses of frozen pure sulforaphane in the oil form. Even if they had a price premium and they had to be shipped frozen in dry ice, I think there would be buyers -- especially cancer patients.  

[Harkijn]

In the BioscienceNews subforum Reason recently posted about the epigenetic regulation of aging by TET2 . We readers of this forum have come across TET2 before and realize that taking SFN enhances at least one function of TET2. This is for instance described here:

http://www.jbc.org/c...91/13/6754.full

[Nate-2004]

Since this is the dominant sulforaphane thread I thought I'd post this here. I made the $4 mistake of buying frozen broccoli, not knowing that processors blanch the broccoli in hot water before freezing, for taste reasons. Well, that kills the myrosinase. It's unlikely that they've ever changed this process in response to the 2013 study. Don't buy frozen broccoli. In fact, I can't even be sure that raw "fresh" broccoli wasn't blanched or frozen at some point before putting it out in the produce section. Another reason to just spend money on BroccoMax I guess?

[mikela]

Since this is the dominant sulforaphane thread I thought I'd post this here. I made the $4 mistake of buying frozen broccoli, not knowing that processors blanch the broccoli in hot water before freezing, for taste reasons. Well, that kills the myrosinase. It's unlikely that they've ever changed this process in response to the 2013 study. Don't buy frozen broccoli. In fact, I can't even be sure that raw "fresh" broccoli wasn't blanched or frozen at some point before putting it out in the produce section. Another reason to just spend money on BroccoMax I guess?

 

You could try sprinkling some ground mustard seed on it which contains myrosinase.

[Nate-2004]

 

Since this is the dominant sulforaphane thread I thought I'd post this here. I made the $4 mistake of buying frozen broccoli, not knowing that processors blanch the broccoli in hot water before freezing, for taste reasons. Well, that kills the myrosinase. It's unlikely that they've ever changed this process in response to the 2013 study. Don't buy frozen broccoli. In fact, I can't even be sure that raw "fresh" broccoli wasn't blanched or frozen at some point before putting it out in the produce section. Another reason to just spend money on BroccoMax I guess?

 

You could try sprinkling some ground mustard seed on it which contains myrosinase.

 

 

True but for one thing that's disgusting, for another I heard mustard seeds as well as broccoli seeds contain erucic acid, which may do more harm than good. I don't know. I'm reading about it now actually and it turns out that it's just an omega 9 monounsaturated fatty acid. However, it's pretty prevalent in a lot of seeds.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by Nate-2004, 18 March 2018 - 06:49 PM.

[mikela]

According to the accounts I have read, it doesn't take much...that's a good thing because I agree about the taste.

[Harkijn]

Perhaps not every reader of this thread follows the various NAD+threads, so I would like to draw their attention to this one:

http://www.longecity...-in-aging-mice/

As we have seen in the SFN thread taking SFN boosts the body's H2S production. This new study sees an overlap in function for NMN and H2S.

[TMNMK]

I have never tried growing sprouts or taking a broccoli sprout supplement, but I think I'm going to give the growing concept a shot soon. I'm not sure if this video has been posted in this thread before, but I thought it was very nice and straightforward: https://www.youtube....h?v=Z7buU-PK7_I

 

Now, if someone would use some crispr/cas9 to enhance these little guys (knock out the gene responsible for the epithiospecifier protein - I think, if I understood correctly what is taking place), that would be even better.

Edited by TMNMK, 23 March 2018 - 01:04 PM.

[Harkijn]

Yes, getting sprouts really right is not as easy as it may look. As for the the epithiospecifier protein, fortunately there is one vegetable, daikon, which contains less isothyanates than sprouts but no epithiospecifier proteins. We learned this earlier in this thread. You can eat them raw, so you only have to cut thin slices, let them sit on the counter for a while and enjoy.

[tintinet]

I have never tried growing sprouts or taking a broccoli sprout supplement, but I think I'm going to give the growing concept a shot soon. I'm not sure if this video has been posted in this thread before, but I thought it was very nice and straightforward: https://www.youtube....h?v=Z7buU-PK7_I

 

Now, if someone would use some crispr/cas9 to enhance these little guys (knock out the gene responsible for the epithiospecifier protein - I think, if I understood correctly what is taking place), that would be even better.

 

 

I've been growing sprouts and using the techniques illustrated in the video for a long time now.  Not difficult, IMO.  

[mikela]

Same here.  I've been using that process for some time...very easy.

[TMNMK]

Does anyone know of data that might help guide the determination of which type of broccoli seed to purchase (or have recommendations on broccoli seed suppliers)? For example:

https://www.victorys...m/broccoli.html has quite a few varieties.

 

I'm wondering if one type of broccoli sprout may be better than another (such as ease/speed of growth or capacity for sulforaphane).

Edited by TMNMK, 25 March 2018 - 04:14 PM.

[TMNMK]

If anyone is using mustard seed powder to increase sulforaphane, apparently brown mustard seed powder is the way to go: https://www.research...w_mustard_seeds

[Nate-2004]

If anyone is using mustard seed powder to increase sulforaphane, apparently brown mustard seed powder is the way to go: https://www.research...w_mustard_seeds

 

Would be good to know how much myrosinase is in brown mustard seed, I'm not sure I can translate un/ml into anything useful. I'm sure I can create brown mustard seed powder with a coffee grinder. If it's significant enough to fit in a 00 size capsule with glucoraphanin then it's worth it just making one's own BroccoMax this way.

[bariotako]

Don't waste your time and money, broccomax is perfect 

[TMNMK]

Don't waste your time and money, broccomax is perfect 

 

Provided your gut microbiome has enough endogenous myrosinase to convert glucoraphanin which has been shown to be variable person-to-person. If you suspect that you do not, then add some myrosinase via (preferably) brown or black mustard seed powder.

 

Broccomax contains sulforaphane glucosinolate which is the precursor, glucoraphanin, not sulforaphane itself.

 

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0140963

 

Check out E and F in figure 1. That is what you get with broccomax I believe (if you don't add myrosinase), but correct me if I am wrong here as I'm just starting to research this topic.

Edited by TMNMK, 26 March 2018 - 03:07 PM.

[TMNMK]

 

If anyone is using mustard seed powder to increase sulforaphane, apparently brown mustard seed powder is the way to go: https://www.research...w_mustard_seeds

 

Would be good to know how much myrosinase is in brown mustard seed, I'm not sure I can translate un/ml into anything useful. I'm sure I can create brown mustard seed powder with a coffee grinder. If it's significant enough to fit in a 00 size capsule with glucoraphanin then it's worth it just making one's own BroccoMax this way.

 

 

I don't know how much, but I have heard that the difference between adding 1 tsp vs 0.5 tsp is negligible (in the interview with Dr. Fahey, previously posted, but posting here just for reference again)

 

So it is catalytic - which is to be expected, it is an enzyme after all. Meaning to say that if there is a small amount of room in that broccomax tablet, one could conceivably go through the trouble of adding some mustard seed powder to each one right before popping it. Or perhaps just wash a small amount of powder down with some water and the pills at the same time. I don't know if that would do it, that is would it cause enough of the enzyme to come into contact with the glucoraphanin in the pills at such volumes in the gut? It is speculative.

 

Edited by TMNMK, 26 March 2018 - 03:21 PM.

[bariotako]

 

Don't waste your time and money, broccomax is perfect 

 

Provided your gut microbiome has enough endogenous myrosinase to convert glucoraphanin which has been shown to be variable person-to-person. If you suspect that you do not, then add some myrosinase via (preferably) brown or black mustard seed powder.

 

Broccomax contains sulforaphane glucosinolate which is the precursor, glucoraphanin, not sulforaphane itself.

 

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0140963

 

Check out E and F in figure 1. That is what you get with broccomax I believe, but correct me if I am wrong here as I'm just starting to research this topic.

 

 

At the end, you get 6-8 mg sulforaphane from 1 tablet of brrocomax , its enough 

[TMNMK]

 

 

Don't waste your time and money, broccomax is perfect 

 

Provided your gut microbiome has enough endogenous myrosinase to convert glucoraphanin which has been shown to be variable person-to-person. If you suspect that you do not, then add some myrosinase via (preferably) brown or black mustard seed powder.

 

Broccomax contains sulforaphane glucosinolate which is the precursor, glucoraphanin, not sulforaphane itself.

 

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0140963

 

Check out E and F in figure 1. That is what you get with broccomax I believe, but correct me if I am wrong here as I'm just starting to research this topic.

 

 

At the end, you get 6-8 mg sulforaphane from 1 tablet of brrocomax , its enough 

 

 

maybe, although at time 40:30 Dr. Patrick seems to suggest more if one intends to mimic results of some studies. Perhaps 6-8mg is enough though, as a preventative measure as sulforaphane accumulation has been noted in more distant tissues (such as breast tissue):

 

Edited by TMNMK, 26 March 2018 - 03:26 PM.

[TMNMK]

By the way, would someone please edit the title of this thread to correct the misspelling of sirtuin?

 

@mrkosh1 - since you are the thread starter, do you have that privilege?

Edited by TMNMK, 26 March 2018 - 04:51 PM.

[Nate-2004]

I wouldn't add it to a BroccoMax tablet as those already have myrosinase in there. I'm talking about adding it to caps full of glucoraphanin or doing a geometric mixing of the two and then capping them. I save a lot of money on supps by getting bulk powder and capping it myself, especially stuff like Curcumin, L-Theanine, Berberine, etc.

 

I usually take about 6 tabs of BroccoMax when I do take the stuff, I don't take it every single day though. 60mg was optimal according to a lot of the cited studies in the video posted above.

 

Also if you're growing sprouts you pretty much have to eat them all within a day or so, you can't freeze them, I discovered this just makes the stomach problems way worse than it has to be. I really wish I knew why these caused so many cramps and stomach problems.

Edited by Nate-2004, 26 March 2018 - 05:39 PM.

[TMNMK]

Oh I didn't realize that BroccoMax had myrosinase on its own (that hadn't been deactivated by heat, say during extraction with hot solvent, or something like that), gtk! I see, so just keep in mind that sulforaphane is not terribly stable, so you'd want to do this mixing ad-hoc as you take it I would assume. By not terribly stable I mean it is a very reactive molecule, but I don't know what timeline we are talking about, but this is what I recall from what I've read/watched. Interesting about the cramps and stomach issues because I was thinking about freezing in order to break the contents of cells (and vacuoles) by that action while also preventing the enzyme from interacting with the precursor until thawed. So just to clarify, you can't freeze them because of stomach issues you (and potentially others?) have had or you can't freeze them because that is known to disrupt this process in some fashion?

Edited by TMNMK, 26 March 2018 - 05:53 PM.

[Nate-2004]

Oh I didn't realize that BroccoMax had myrosinase on its own (that hadn't been deactivated by heat, say during extraction with hot solvent, or something like that), gtk! I see, so just keep in mind that sulforaphane is not terribly stable, so you'd want to do this mixing ad-hoc as you take it I would assume. By not terribly stable I mean it is a very reactive molecule, but I don't know what timeline we are talking about, but this is what I recall from what I've read/watched. Interesting about the cramps and stomach issues because I was thinking about freezing in order to break the contents of cells (and vacuoles) by that action while also preventing the enzyme from interacting with the precursor until thawed. So just to clarify, you can't freeze them because of stomach issues you (and potentially others?) have had or you can't freeze them because that is known to disrupt this process in some fashion?

 

Yes Jarrow has included active myrosinase for about 3 years now. I honestly don't know if it survives the stomach or what, enzymes taken orally tend to be problematic but also, I mean, if it works by chewing or crushing or blending broccoli sprouts or florets then it probably works regardless of how its taken.

 

Freezing veggies without blanching (blanching destroys enzymes) makes veggies taste awful and can cause upset stomach. I'm saying it does this to me, even without freezing the sprouts they still cause me a lot of upset stomach problems but less so. I really wish I knew why because it'd be nice if I could just keep growing and mixing these into my smoothies.

[goboating]

Here is an intersting talk about about sulforaphane by Brian Cornblatt who worked in Jed Fahey's lab at Johns Hopkins. He, unsurprisingly, recommends Avmacol.  Why do we talk so much about Broccomax and not so much about Avmacol? The specs: 350mg brocolli seed extract to produce >25mg glucoraphinin which produces an average of 44 micromoles of sulforaphane in urine.

[Nate-2004]

As far as I know, it's not only more expensive but it is also not made in the US making it even more expensive for US customers.

 

At the time that it came out it was the only one that actually produced sulforaphane, because of its formulation, the other competitors were just glucoraphanin. Things have changed.

 

So the question is now, what's the difference between the current Jarrow formulation and Avmacol?