537 replies to this topic

[Nate-2004]

Now you guys are getting mental benefits from these?

 

Perceived yes, still ongoing, fingers crossed on it lasting. No way to know without a controlled study if there is any true testable cognitive benefit but it certainly is a lot easier to recall things from memory lately and I feel as if I'm quicker witted socially. All anecdotal so try it yourself. S + NR may not be the only thing, because I am taking MK-677 and GH and IGF-1 are known cognitive enhancers.

[Harkijn]

In an earlier post I drew attention to sulforaphane's protection of the pericytes, small compounds that keep our arteries and veins happy. That was about aging in general en specifically diabetic retinpathy. However elsewhere on this website Reason today refers to this recent study that hypothesizes that Alzheimer and dementia may be caused by failing pericytes in the brain vascular system.

http://news.usc.edu/...ates-the-brain/

For these researchers the question is now: what kills our pericytes? I hope they will find an answer soon. In the meantime let's enjoy lots of watercress, radish, daikon and sprouts 

[Nat1971a]

Harkijn

Awesome find. Thanks for sharing. This is really big discovery.

[mrkosh1]

Hello Everyone,

 

I bought some brocolli sprouts from the grocery store the other day and tried them for the first time. I didn't really like the taste, and I didn't finish the container. Interestingly, I noticed that the longer I chewed the sprouts the worse the taste became. At first the sprouts were only moderately spicy tasting, but then the taste became stronger and stronger. I don't really know how to explain the taste after chewing each bite for an extended time.

 

On another note, I'm getting closer to making a decision about what to order: either a broccoli sprout supplement or seeds/equipment. I haven't made up my mind yet. If they were available in the USA, I'd probably choose prostaphane.

 

Finally, I'm getting very interested in olive oil and hydroxytyrosol. It is supposed to be highly absorbable like sulforaphane. However, I've been doing research on the tremendously varying qualities of olive oil, and I don't find any that seem suitable at the grocery stores nearby.

 

Can anyone here recommend an olive oil supplement that is higher in hydroxytyrosol and tyrosol than ordinary olive oil? I think if I'm going to be using it every day, gel-caps or capsules would be easier than just guzzling straight olive oil from a bottle.

Edited by mrkosh1, 03 February 2017 - 12:01 AM.

[Adaptogen]

Can anyone here recommend an olive oil supplement that is higher in hydroxytyrosol and tyrosol than ordinary olive oil? I think if I'm going to be using it every day, gel-caps or capsules would be easier than just guzzling straight olive oil from a bottle.

 

this product looks pretty good http://www.oleaplus....oleahealth.html, at 3000 mg/kg polyphenols, but website is in greek so not sure how accessible international ordering would be

[mrkosh1]

Here is another olive oil supplement, but I don't think I can order it on Amazon.

 

http://www.olivie.ma...livie-plus.html

 

I really wonder what a combination of sulforaphane, olive oil, and NR would do for rat lifespan.

[Nate-2004]

Hello Everyone,

 

I bought some brocolli sprouts from the grocery store the other day and tried them for the first time. I didn't really like the taste, and I didn't finish the container. Interestingly, I noticed that the longer I chewed the sprouts the worse the taste became. At first the sprouts were only moderately spicy tasting, but then the taste became stronger and stronger. I don't really know how to explain the taste after chewing each bite for an extended time.

 

On another note, I'm getting closer to making a decision about what to order: either a broccoli sprout supplement or seeds/equipment. I haven't made up my mind yet. If they were available in the USA, I'd probably choose prostaphane.

 

Finally, I'm getting very interested in olive oil and hydroxytyrosol. It is supposed to be highly absorbable like sulforaphane. However, I've been doing research on the tremendously varying qualities of olive oil, and I don't find any that seem suitable at the grocery stores nearby.

 

Can anyone here recommend an olive oil supplement that is higher in hydroxytyrosol and tyrosol than ordinary olive oil? I think if I'm going to be using it every day, gel-caps or capsules would be easier than just guzzling straight olive oil from a bottle.

 

I'd suggest ultimately growing your own so you can control the number of days and quality. Supposedly 2 days sulforaphane peaks. If you heat it to 60 or 70c in water and add ground mustard seeds it should boost the sulforaphane considerably. Then in addition to that take BroccoMax. That would probably be a considerable amount.

 

You can also just take that, and combine it with the smoothie Rhonda Patrick goes over in detail in one of her videos and have it for breakfast. It has apple, banana and blueberry in it so it should hide the taste.

 

It'll cost me about $550 to get all that stuff but in the meantime I'm just going to ground mustard seed and mix it with BroccoMax in warm water and drink that, or just take the pills if I'm not at home.

 

I'm still feeling the effects and the energy is really good, so far it's been over a week since I've been experiencing this and I'll know it's solid after about 2 weeks if it continues. Most placebo effects only last about a week or two... assuming those ephemeral effects are placebo.

Edited by Nate-2004, 03 February 2017 - 03:59 AM.

[mrkosh1]

What does the powder inside the Broccomax capsules look like? I think opening them up and mixing them with some mustard powder and water is a very good idea. My budget is very limited, so I'll have to take all of this one step at a time. At some point, growing the sprouts would be the best option. In the long term it would be much cheaper. Basically, the four supplements I'm most interested in now is olive oil, sulforaphane, alpha lipoic acid, and nicotinamide riboside. If nothing else, I'm probably going to buy a bottle of the NR and some broccomax. This combined with going back on a low calorie Atkins like diet and getting back into running again should improve my health.

[mikela]

I bought some brocolli sprouts from the grocery store the other day and tried them for the first time. I didn't really like the taste, and I didn't finish the container. Interestingly, I noticed that the longer I chewed the sprouts the worse the taste became. At first the sprouts were only moderately spicy tasting, but then the taste became stronger and stronger. I don't really know how to explain the taste after chewing each bite for an extended time.

 

That sounds like my first experience when I tried to blend them into a smoothie.  The taste was pretty bad.  However, after heating the sprouts at 70 deg C for 10 minutes I no longer have an issue with taste.  I also remove most of the hulls by removing the sprouts from the water with a fork.  I pack them into a Ninja blender with water to the top of the sprouts, throw in several ice cubes and blend.  I put in into a glass and let it sit for 40 minutes.  It's pretty easy to drink.  I suspect the nitrile compound that is formed when you don't heat the sprouts may account for the bad taste.

[Nate-2004]

What does the powder inside the Broccomax capsules look like? I think opening them up and mixing them with some mustard powder and water is a very good idea. My budget is very limited, so I'll have to take all of this one step at a time. At some point, growing the sprouts would be the best option. In the long term it would be much cheaper. Basically, the four supplements I'm most interested in now is olive oil, sulforaphane, alpha lipoic acid, and nicotinamide riboside. If nothing else, I'm probably going to buy a bottle of the NR and some broccomax. This combined with going back on a low calorie Atkins like diet and getting back into running again should improve my health.

 

I'm back and forth about ALA since it's endogenous like CoQ10 and the evidence for any benefit to taking exogenously is limited, inconsistent and unimpressive. Not sure about olive oil either. As a fatty oil I'm sure it improves bioavailability for anything lipid soluble but outside of that, it's prone to problems of rancidity. MCT oil is probably a better choice on that level. While sulforaphane might be an anti-oxidant, I don't think that's the primary reason for its beneficial effects. It's anti-inflammatory and an activator of the NRF2 pathway as well as an NQ01 activator, it also deactivates phase 1 biotransformation enzymes. Since ROS has such an important role in mitochondrial turnover and biogenesis I'm not so sure how good antioxidants really are for us as far as fighting aging. While ALA has some benefits when taken, especially with creatine uptake, I tend to leave it off the table most of the time and cycle it in rarely.  There's supposedly some evidence that ALA may boost NAD+, but I think NR does a fairly good job of that, plus apigenin might help improve that as well. I'm more focused on anti-inflammatory stuff like curcumin, ginger, magnesium, exercise. Sirtuins are seen as good because of its observed effects in CR mice, but that's just one small part of the key I think. There's still senescent cells,, AGE's, beta amyloids, lipofuscin and other damaging extracellular junk to deal with. Speaking of senescent cells, everyone should donate to the matched cell age funds using the link at the bottom of the page.

 

Rhonda Patrick cites all these details in this video:

 

Edited by Nate-2004, 03 February 2017 - 06:07 AM.

[tintinet]

Donated to cellage match fund. Used to eat a couple of pounds of raw broccoli a day (years). Still eat a couple of pounds a week. Starting second crop of broccoli sprouts. Don't mind the taste (so far unheated) in salads or alone, but I'm not so fond of them in my smoothies. Been taking BroccoMax for a couple of weeks. Feel good but usually do anyway. Too early to tell if it's making a perceptible difference for me. Starting rapamycin tomorrow likely. Already been taking Metformin, NR, other "panaceas" for a long while. Usually can't tell if I'm taking them or not, except that my wallet shrinks perceptibly while I am. ;(

[Heisok]

I do not know if this makes a difference, but is Yellow the best mustard seed? The complete study was not at the link.

 

"Thermal and pressure stability of myrosinase enzymes from black mustard (Brassica nigra L. W.D.J. Koch. var. nigra), brown mustard (Brassica juncea L. Czern. var. juncea) and yellow mustard (Sinapsis alba L. subsp. maire) seeds."

 

"This study investigates the effects of temperature and pressure on inactivation of myrosinase extracted from black, brown and yellow mustard seeds. Brown mustard had higher myrosinase activity (2.75 un/mL) than black (1.50 un/mL) and yellow mustard (0.63 un/mL). The extent of enzyme inactivation increased with pressure (600-800 MPa) and temperature (30-70° C) for all the mustard seeds. However, at combinations of lower pressures (200-400 MPa) and high temperatures (60-80 °C), there was less inactivation. For example, application of 300 MPa and 70 °C for 10 min retained 20%, 80% and 65% activity in yellow, black and brown mustard, respectively, whereas the corresponding activity retentions when applying only heat (70° C, 10 min) were 0%, 59% and 35%. Thus, application of moderate pressures (200-400 MPa) can potentially be used to retain myrosinase activity needed for subsequent glucosinolate hydrolysis."

 

Olukayode Adediran Okunade, Sameer Khalil Ghawi, Lisa Methven, Keshavan Niranjan
Department of Food and Nutritional Sciences, University of Reading, Whiteknights,
P.O Box 226, Reading, RG6 6AP, UK

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25977054

 

A pdf file was on a site. Here is a part:

 

"4 Conclusion
Myrosinase from different mustard species varied in terms of specific enzyme activity as
well as temperature and pressure stability. Brown mustard myrosinase had the highest
overall myrosinase activity and specific activity. Brown and black mustard myrosinase were
more resistant to pressure and thermal treatment than myrosinase from yellow mustard.
Combined high pressure-thermal treatment (up to 70 °C and 800 MPa) completely
inactivated myrosinase from the mustards studied. However, at low pressure (200-400
MPa), inactivation temperature increased in the mustard samples studied with lower rate of
loss in myrosinase activity compared to any of thermal, pressure and combined high
pressure-thermal treatment. This difference in myrosinase stability could be utilized to
control the hydrolysis level of glucosinolates when mustard seeds are used as a condiment
along with cooked Brassica vegetables. This could have important health implications
through increasing the delivery of bioactive isothiocyanates from the Brassica. In addition,
controlling enzyme activity can also be used to regulate sensory attributes of Brassica
vegetables."

 

Edited by Heisok, 04 February 2017 - 03:21 AM.

[tintinet]

Broccoli sprout taste is very neutral after short steaming, btw.

[mikela]

How To Increase Sulforaphane in Broccoli Sprouts by ~3.5-fold

[scooterboy]

How do you go a bout heating mustard seeds to 70 c ?

Do you heat them before grinding ?

[Heisok]

My analysis is suspect at best, but with the mustard seeds, no heating might be preferable. At any of the heat/pressure levels there seemed to be loss. Just less loss depending on method, and variety of mustard. . I plan to try unheated brown mixed with Broccomax, unless somebody here indicates a problem with that strategy.

Edited by Heisok, 04 February 2017 - 09:06 PM.

[Nate-2004]

So supposedly brown mustard seeds have the highest level of myrosinase. I figure if I can find a bulk supply of glucoraphanin powder I can just make my own sulforaphane shots.

 

I read that putting the ground mustard seeds in water heated to 70c along with glucoraphanin (or broccoli sprouts) yielded the most, but not sure what ratios work best.

[scooterboy]

So supposedly brown mustard seeds have the highest level of myrosinase. I figure if I can find a bulk supply of glucoraphanin powder I can just make my own sulforaphane shots.

 

I read that putting the ground mustard seeds in water heated to 70c along with glucoraphanin (or broccoli sprouts) yielded the most, but not sure what ratios work best.

 

How would you heat ground mustard seeds in water ?
 

[Nate-2004]

 

So supposedly brown mustard seeds have the highest level of myrosinase. I figure if I can find a bulk supply of glucoraphanin powder I can just make my own sulforaphane shots.

 

I read that putting the ground mustard seeds in water heated to 70c along with glucoraphanin (or broccoli sprouts) yielded the most, but not sure what ratios work best.

 

How would you heat ground mustard seeds in water ?
 

 

 

1. Bring water to boil.

2. Pour in glass.

3. Wait to cool a little.

4. Pour ground seeds in (try an electric coffee grinder).

5. Mix in glucoraphanin powder.

6. Wait (how long? I have no idea).

[sthira]

Or you could include ground mustard seed as a delicious spice to enhance whatever meal you're cooking. If you add a pinch of ground mustard seed into, say, steamed broccoli, you may find that consuming the delicious spice is more sustainable, and you may do it again. I'm no one to judge eccentric behavior in others -- god knows -- but making nasty drinks to choke down perceived health benefits seems strange: must "let food be thy medicine" mean thy medicine must be disgusting? Why not work with the flavors and textures of food rather than...

[mikela]

I tried ground mustard seed on broccoli and did not care for it at all.  I found that if I followed Rhonda's procedure for heating the sprouts that the smoothie is not disgusting at all but rather bland...of course everyone is different.

[Harkijn]

 I've been told that in this hasty day&age people get easily discouraged by sustained detailed information and give up. So I imagine a very short recap of the basics might be useful for some:

 

In post # 190 the video (40 minutes in) shows that 40  to 60mg of sulforaphane daily may already have some spectacular health benefits and that you only need to eat 120grams of broccoli sprouts to get that minimum intake. Cut or blend your veggies, wait at least 20 minutes for the enzyme to do its work.

A few minutes later dr. Patrick shows a list of crucifers and how much glucosinates they contain. This list may be confusing because it is not per standard weight.

An example from this list: my  tomato/cucumber/watercress/mustard powder salad this morning contained about 120 grams of watercress which is enough to bring me in the range dr. Patrick mentioned.

 

 

[nickdino]

I have been studying this topic further this evening.

First of all, I'd like to say that Rhonda Patrick is AWESOME and her video is AWESOME. I am going to be watching more of her videos. In particular, she has a short video where she discusses how very brief heating with hot water (NOT BOILING) of around 60 degrees C for a few minutes can deactivate an alternate enzyme that can convert the precursor into an INACTIVE form of sulforaphane. So, basically, this alternate enzyme is destroyed at a temperature LOWER than the enzyme that converts the precursor into sulforaphane. This can optimize the production of the ACTIVE form of sulfraphane by THREE FOLD. She uses a thermometer to measure the temperature of water in her kettle and then pours it over her broccoli sprouts.

Secondly, I've learned that pre-blending or mashing of the sprouts are a good idea. This gives the pre-cursor and the GOOD enzyme with want the chance to mix together. One doctor on Youtube suggests after you perform this you should allow them to sit for forty minutes before consumption.

Thirdly, mustard seed has the same enzyme that can transform the precursor into sulforaphane. By mixing ground mustard seed into blended sprouts, you can make sure there is plenty of pre-cursor available.

So far I've learned of THREE stages to maximize sulforaphane.

1) Pre-heat to 60C for a few minutes.
2) Add ground mustard seed.
3) Blend together and allow to rest for 40 minutes.

https://m.youtube.co...Ejy36uevsq722c=

https://m.youtube.co...PiL6fDJioafzwE=

Now, here are some further questions that I have not yet resolved.

- Are there certain subspecies of broccoli that have higher levels of sulforaphane than others? (Or I should say higher levels of the pre-cursor and enzyme.)
- Is there a way to extract the sulforaphane from the broccoli slurry after blending? For example, straining the liquid from the pulp?
- What does mustard seed taste like? Is it nasty?
- Are there any nutrients that I can give the sprouts while they are growing that will optimize levels of the precursor?

I'm really excited about the combination of nictonimide riboside and Sulforaphane. We have two VERY potent supplements that may synergize together in a very powerful way.

Excellent reaction, exactly the question anyone should want to know. How do i yield the best benefits?

But, how about freezing them because you dont want to sprout continually. How would that fit into this protocol? Freezing the sprouts breaks the membranes slowly and up to doubles the sulforaphane content.
So, sprout them> heat them> freeze them> combine and chew or blend them with mustard seed, daikon or other myrosinase containing foods. Would that work well?

[mrkosh1]

Remember in the interview with Dr. Fayhe that Rhonda said after she let her smoothie sit for several minutes, I think she may have said thirty, that it tasted far worse. They concluded the bad taste was the sulforaphane being created. If there is relatively very little taste, I think that means the temperature used in heating the sprouts was too high and both the nitril promotors and the myrosinase was destroyed.

 

I personally wouldn't heat my sprouts up to 70C. To be on the safe side, I'd stick with a lower temperature for not quite as long.

 

 

[mikela]

Remember in the interview with Dr. Fayhe that Rhonda said after she let her smoothie sit for several minutes, I think she may have said thirty, that it tasted far worse. They concluded the bad taste was the sulforaphane being created. If there is relatively very little taste, I think that means the temperature used in heating the sprouts was too high and both the nitril promotors and the myrosinase was destroyed.

 

I personally wouldn't heat my sprouts up to 70C. To be on the safe side, I'd stick with a lower temperature for not quite as long.

 

 

Actually, her exact words are that it taste different.  She heats her sprouts at 70C for 10 minutes in her video.  Also the graph in her video shows that 70C has plenty of margin for sprouts.  If you are concerned just sprinkle in a little mustard seed.

Edited by mikela, 07 February 2017 - 07:32 AM.

[nickdino]

She did not keep those sprouts at 70 degrees for 10 minutes, maybe 30? seconds at 70 and down from there.

But what about my suggestion of heating them to 70 or 60 for some minutes, let them cool down and then freeze them in a vacuum. Would that give 3.5+2 = 5.5 times the sulforaphane over unprocessed? And if that would work, how to proceed from there to optimize, add myrosinase, blend, let it sit up to 40 minutes?

Edited by nickdino, 07 February 2017 - 08:14 AM.

[Harkijn]

Perhaps most of you have looked up sulforaphane here already:

https://examine.com/...s/sulforaphane/

I hadn't yet and I find it a very motivating read.

 

I had not yet heard about the synergy between SFN, curcumin and ECGC.

 

Examine.com sees some more ifs and buts with mustard powder use than dr. Patrick does, or dr. Greger.

Edited by Harkijn, 07 February 2017 - 09:49 AM.

[mikela]

She did not keep those sprouts at 70 degrees for 10 minutes, maybe 30? seconds at 70 and down from there.

 

You are technically right of course even though she advocates 70C at 10 minutes.  If you look at the graph in the video I posted above at the 1:23 mark you will see that it makes little difference in reality.

Edited by mikela, 08 February 2017 - 07:07 AM.

[Nate-2004]

I finally got around to watching or rather listening to half the video so far and from what I understand we can just blend and drink the broccoli seeds with brown mustard seeds. 

 

Also if it were me I would suggest just using hot water from the tap to play it safe as far as temp.

[mrkosh1]

http://onlinelibrary...8791.x/abstract

 

Grinding up the seeds may provide sulforaphane, but you are also risking consuming too much erucic acid. I've mentioned this before in this thread. As of right now, with no pure sulforaphane supplement and sprout growing being labor intensive, there doesn't seem like an easy solution.