537 replies to this topic

[Nate-2004]

http://onlinelibrary...8791.x/abstract

 

Grinding up the seeds may provide sulforaphane, but you are also risking consuming too much erucic acid. I've mentioned this before in this thread. As of right now, with no pure sulforaphane supplement and sprout growing being labor intensive, there doesn't seem like an easy solution.

 

Fahey never mentioned the erucic acid. I just asked Rhonda Patrick on patreon a bunch of questions about it. Like, how much glucoraphanin is in how many seeds? What if I grind them up with brown mustard seeds and throw them in a small glass of hot water? etc. Hopefully I get an answer.

[mrkosh1]

The number one most important question is to ask for a source of seeds that are of a cultivar high in glucoraphanin. This could make a huge difference in the quantity of sulforaphane obtained. Secondly, some research would need to be performed on how to remove the erucic acid or do something to negate the ill effects. For example, I've wondered if adding high quality extra virgin olive oil to properly processed ground broccoli seeds would compensate for the negative effects of Erucic acid. If the erucic acid is not a big deal and/or it can be compensated for, then I think dropping the ground broccoli seed powder in a tiny bit of 60C hot water, adding a little cold water to cool it down, and then adding ground mustard seeds (if there is nothing negative in ground mustard seeds) would be a plausible route.

 

In reality, we just need a supplement company to sell sulforaphane in the United States. I'm curious if it could be stabilized in high quality EVOO.

[mrkosh1]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28142224

 

Effects of Sulforaphane on Neural Stem Cell Proliferation and Differentiation.

Han Z¹, Xu Q², Li C³, Zhao H⁴.

Author information

Abstract

Sulforaphane (SFN) is a natural organosulfur compound with ant-oxidant and anti-inflammation properties. The objective of this study is to investigate the effect of SFN on the proliferation and differentiation of neural stem cells (NSC). NSCs were exposed to SFN at the concentrations ranging from 0.25 to 10 µM. Cell viability was evaluated with MTT assay and lactate dehydogenase (LDH) release assay. The proliferation of NSCs was evaluated with neurosphere formation assay and Ki-67 staining. The level of Tuj-1 was evaluated with immunostaining and western blot to assess NSC neuronal differentiation. The expression of key proteins in the Wnt signaling pathway, including β-catenin and cyclin D1, in response to SFN treatment or the Wnt inhibitor, DKK-1, was determined by western blotting. No significant cytotoxicity was seen for SFN on NSCs with SFN at concentrations of less than 10 µM. On the contrary, SFN of low concentrations stimulated cell proliferation and prominently increased neurosphere formation and NSC differentiation to neurons. SFN treatment upregulated Wnt signaling in the NSCs, whereas DKK-1 attenuated the effects of SFN. SFN is a drug to promote NSC proliferation and neuronal differentiation when used at low concentrations. These protective effects are mediated by Wnt signaling pathway. This article is protected by copyright. All rights reserved.

 

---

 

 

[mikela]

If you are sprouting you want to make sure and heat the sprouts enough to eliminate the Epithiospecifier (ESP) protein.  Otherwise it will leach much of the glucoraphanin in the formation of sulforathane nitrile.  I personally would rather heat a bit over and add some ground mustard seed (which is what I have started doing) than under heat and risk much of the good stuff being converted into nitrile.

[Nate-2004]

The number one most important question is to ask for a source of seeds that are of a cultivar high in glucoraphanin. This could make a huge difference in the quantity of sulforaphane obtained. Secondly, some research would need to be performed on how to remove the erucic acid or do something to negate the ill effects. For example, I've wondered if adding high quality extra virgin olive oil to properly processed ground broccoli seeds would compensate for the negative effects of Erucic acid. If the erucic acid is not a big deal and/or it can be compensated for, then I think dropping the ground broccoli seed powder in a tiny bit of 60C hot water, adding a little cold water to cool it down, and then adding ground mustard seeds (if there is nothing negative in ground mustard seeds) would be a plausible route.

 

In reality, we just need a supplement company to sell sulforaphane in the United States. I'm curious if it could be stabilized in high quality EVOO.

 

Maybe I'm better off just finding a good glucoraphanin extract powder and mixing it with the ground brown mustard seeds in warm water then. That's probably the best route there is. Since a lot of the glucoraphanin that includes myrosinase ends up being full of dead myrosinase, and they don't keep it in the fridge.

 

If anybody has a great source for it let me know.

Edited by Nate-2004, 10 February 2017 - 10:10 PM.

[Journey2016]

My current stack to battle addiction

Niagen 500mg
Brocomax
Grapeseed extrac denvo

Edited by Journey2016, 11 February 2017 - 07:15 PM.

[nickdino]

I dont know if you people have seen rhonda's video about how to sprout brocolli but she uses a few small jason jars with screwed on lids that have tiny holes. Couldn't we just put that in one big mason jar or other glass container instead? And what i would like to know is how much volume is needed per.. 100 grams of brocolli seeds say.

[Nate-2004]

The number one most important question is to ask for a source of seeds that are of a cultivar high in glucoraphanin. This could make a huge difference in the quantity of sulforaphane obtained. Secondly, some research would need to be performed on how to remove the erucic acid or do something to negate the ill effects. For example, I've wondered if adding high quality extra virgin olive oil to properly processed ground broccoli seeds would compensate for the negative effects of Erucic acid. If the erucic acid is not a big deal and/or it can be compensated for, then I think dropping the ground broccoli seed powder in a tiny bit of 60C hot water, adding a little cold water to cool it down, and then adding ground mustard seeds (if there is nothing negative in ground mustard seeds) would be a plausible route.

 

In reality, we just need a supplement company to sell sulforaphane in the United States. I'm curious if it could be stabilized in high quality EVOO.

 

You're the only one so far who's mentioned Erucic acid. Fahey never mentioned it and neither has Rhonda. Where did you learn about this?

[Nate-2004]

I went searching for glucoraphanin in bulk and found that Powder City was experiencing poor sales of the product and is liquidating their supply at a low price. My only concern is the shelf-life.

[Oakman]

I went searching for glucoraphanin in bulk and found that Powder City was experiencing poor sales of the product and is liquidating their supply at a low price. My only concern is the shelf-life.

 

I purchased this > Broccoli Extract Powder from Bulk Supplements 500g @ $25.96 a while ago. Nothing about Sulforaphane or glucoraphanin or extract ratio. But the serving size is 500mg and the pkg continues with "Any increased dosage should first be discussed with a physician". No mention of glucoraphanin.

 

Now Powder City has something on sale... Broccoli Sprout Extract Powder 20:1 62.5g @ $2.51 and says it contains glucoraphanin, but not exactly how much. It uses a 250mg serving size, with no warning about larger doses.

 

Neither say precisely how they were produced, which makes a difference in what active components remain after processing. I find that discouraging and all the more frustrating when trying to figure out what and how much to take to get an 'effective' dose, whatever that is! The B.S. powder is normal tasting, and easy to take, but I wonder where they get their recommended serving sizes from? It would be easy to take a LOT more!

 

So I also ordered Sprout Living, FD Sprout Mix, Broccoli & Kale Fresh Freeze Dried, Enzymatically Active, 100% pure Sprout Powders. It says it contains "Countless Beneficial plant compounds including isothiocyanates, glucosinolates, and sulforaphane". It also doesn't say how much of each, but as it is 'raw' it may be closer to what is needed for a good dose. This one has a 3.5g serving size, and also tastes normal, not bad. I intend to mix the Bulk Supplements and the Sprout Living to be sure of getting 'something' useful. But again, the varying serving sizes make it hard to compare, and I wonder why they are so different, or does it even matter?

 

It's still a crap shoot.

[Nate-2004]

I sent an e-mail to both Bulk Supplements and Powder City to ask more about their product. I'm concerned about the shelf-life with powder city considering that they are liquidating, and I'm asking BS all the other questions you bring up.

[Harkijn]

 

The number one most important question is to ask for a source of seeds that are of a cultivar high in glucoraphanin. This could make a huge difference in the quantity of sulforaphane obtained. Secondly, some research would need to be performed on how to remove the erucic acid or do something to negate the ill effects. For example, I've wondered if adding high quality extra virgin olive oil to properly processed ground broccoli seeds would compensate for the negative effects of Erucic acid. If the erucic acid is not a big deal and/or it can be compensated for, then I think dropping the ground broccoli seed powder in a tiny bit of 60C hot water, adding a little cold water to cool it down, and then adding ground mustard seeds (if there is nothing negative in ground mustard seeds) would be a plausible route.

 

In reality, we just need a supplement company to sell sulforaphane in the United States. I'm curious if it could be stabilized in high quality EVOO.

 

You're the only one so far who's mentioned Erucic acid. Fahey never mentioned it and neither has Rhonda. Where did you learn about this?

 

According to the pdf there is reason for concern for daily users of Broccoli Seed Oil who also eat a lot of Brassicas. Which I hope most of us do.

However, if you can't eat it, you can still rub it in your hair! 

http://www.organicau...-your-hair-face

 

 west2002.pdf   388.28KB   7 downloads

[mikela]

I dont know if you people have seen rhonda's video about how to sprout brocolli but she uses a few small jason jars with screwed on lids that have tiny holes. Couldn't we just put that in one big mason jar or other glass container instead? And what i would like to know is how much volume is needed per.. 100 grams of brocolli seeds say.

 

Here is what I use:

 

Wide mouth Mason jars (easier to get the sprouts out than small mouth)

 

Screen lids.

 

Organic broccoli seeds

 

I Put 2 tablespoons of broccoli seeds in a jar with about an inch of water and let sit over night.  Rinse in the morning and put the jar screen side down at a 45 degree angle into a bowl for drainage.   Rinse with cool water at beginning and end of each day.  After 5 to 6 days sprouts almost completely fill jar and are ready.  I then have enough to fill two 2 ounce containers which I place in the fridge.  I use the original plastic broccoli sprout containers from Sprouts (the store) when I was initially trying them out before I started sprouting.  It doesn't take much time at all and couldn't be easier.

[Nate-2004]

How bad is Erucic acid? Why is it bad?

 

I read that it was also in Mustard oil but I see no mention of it being in mustard seeds which is where the myrosinase is.

[mikela]

How bad is Erucic acid? Why is it bad?

 

I read that it was also in Mustard oil but I see no mention of it being in mustard seeds which is where the myrosinase is.

 

See the West2002 PDF that Harkijn attached.  Broccoli and broccoli sprouts have safe levels if not consumed in excess.  Broccoli seeds have much larger amounts.  Not sure about mustard seeds.

Edited by mikela, 13 February 2017 - 10:17 PM.

[tintinet]

http://www.sciencedi...308814613019419

Rather ominous for mustard seed, ISTM.

[Nate-2004]

So I guess the next question is how does one extract just the myrosinase from mustard seeds while keeping them alive?

[nickdino]

Why do you want to keep the seeds alive?

But, how about the erucic acid levels in mustard powder which is what fahey and patrick recommend.

We can still use radish, daikon. How about watercress, does it have sulforaphane producing ability? And, if eaten together with broccolli sprouts does it have a surplus of myrosinase that will react with that other compound, glucoraphanin?, of the brocolli sprouts and thus raise sulforaphane content above the total amount for each one consumed alone.

Edited by nickdino, 14 February 2017 - 09:28 AM.

[Harkijn]

Why do you want to keep the seeds alive?

But, how about the erucic acid levels in mustard powder which is what fahey and patrick recommend.

We can still use radish, daikon. How about watercress, does it have sulforaphane producing ability? And, if eaten together with broccolli sprouts does it have a surplus of myrosinase that will react with that other compound, glucoraphanin?, of the brocolli sprouts and thus raise sulforaphane content above the total amount for each one consumed alone.

 

The amount of mustard powder which we need to add to, say, boiled broccoli is extremely small, so probably no reason for concern.

 

Yes, dr. Patrick suggests that raw crucifers produce enough myrosinase to help  boiled broccoli produce sulforaphane. Watercress is a very good choice. It's not that high on dr.Patrick's list but still can make a good contribution.

Then there is mustard leaves: they are high on the list and can be eaten raw in a salad. They are a very good choice for much more reasons than sulforaphane alone:

http://www.nutrition...ard-greens.html

 

I am glad you mention daikon: it is tasty when eaten raw and it is the vegetable about which dr. Fahey mentions that it does not contain the ESP enzyme that sidetracks sulforaphane into a nitrile!

[nickdino]

Guys, about the germination process. Is it right that you only soak the seeds once for about 12 hours, and thereafter rinse and drain every 12 hours untill leaves have forned?
Makes me wonder how they grow so much being merged in water for only 12 hours.

[Cube]

Wouldn't buying broccoli sprout extract and mixing some mustard seed powder with it be the simplest way of getting both chemical constituents.

[Nate-2004]

Wouldn't buying broccoli sprout extract and mixing some mustard seed powder with it be the simplest way of getting both chemical constituents.

 

Mustard seed apparently also has Erucic acid in it. Can't win, ever.

[mrkosh1]

Someone in the supplement industry needs to see this opening for a new product and take advantage of it. What's required is an extract of broccoli sprouts that has had the nitril forming compounds removed, myrosinase added or somehow left in during the extraction process, pre-mixed with water to allow the formation of sulforaphane, each batch tested for sulforaphane content, frozen and shipped cold. Every bottle should have a near-term expiration date.

[Ukko]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...cles/PMC3592015/

 

"Sulforaphane, a sulfur-containing compound with properties against prostate cancer, can release a large amount of H2S." 

 

"H2S activates SIRT1 to resist aging.

 

The silent information regulator 2 gene (SIR2) family, which is conserved from prokaryotes to eukaryotes (Staphylococcus aureus, fission yeast, Arabidopsis, Caenorhabditis elegans, mouse, rat, human), has functions in silencing, cell cycle progression, and chromosome stability (47). SIR2 is a determinant of life span in yeast mother cells. It can promote longevity in Saccharomyces cerevisiae by suppressing the generation and accumulation of extrachromosomal ribosomal DNA (rDNA) circles, which are considered a cause of aging in yeast (48). Similarly, it has been demonstrated that SIR2, which encodes a histone deacetylase, extends the life span of Caenorhabditis elegans through signaling pathways involving DAF-2/insulin receptor and DAF-16/FOXO (49, 50). Mammals have seven Sir2 homologues (SIRT1 to -7), of which SIRT1 is most closely related to Sir2. These proteins have a highly conserved NAD-dependent sirtuin core domain, first identified in the yeast Sir2 protein, making them good candidates for life span regulators (51). Interestingly, it has been reported that exogenous H2S has a protective effect on maintaining the circadian rhythm of clock genes in isolated hepatocytes by changing the NAD+/NADH ratio and enhancing the activity of SIRT1 protein (52). SIRT1 has thus emerged as a major life span regulator, and H2S has been hypothesized to delay aging, in part by activating SIRT1."

[Harkijn]

Interesting find. Exciting to see that many LC threads come together as far as H2S is concerned. We could for instance eat some garlic with our crucifers:

http://www.longecity...-is-anti-aging/

[nickdino]

Can we come up with a recipe for a synergistic shake based on brocolli sprouts.

-brocolli sprouts for sulforaphane
-mustard leaves for myrosinase and more
-water? chilled green tea?
-garlic for h2s?
-turmeric/black pepper/fat:coconut or avocado.
-finally, something to make it taste better. Banana has a strong taste, some other fruit that will dominate the taste but has synergy with the rest of the contents. maybe date?

[Harkijn]

The science behind it all is not yet completely clear to me.

On the one hand we can increase H2S production by  restricting sulfur amino acids intake like methionine.  See, for instance here:

https://gerontologyr...ll-cr-pathways/

 

On the other hand we want to eat more sulfurcontaining veggies like broccoli.

Ukko, or perhaps mrKosh, have you studied this background?

[Oakman]

Can we come up with a recipe for a synergistic shake based on brocolli sprouts.

-brocolli sprouts for sulforaphane
-mustard leaves for myrosinase and more
-water? chilled green tea?
-garlic for h2s?
-turmeric/black pepper/fat:coconut or avocado.
-finally, something to make it taste better. Banana has a strong taste, some other fruit that will dominate the taste but has synergy with the rest of the contents. maybe date?

I do a shake with various (pill) contents including teaspoon broccoli sprout powder, and my go-to flavor/mixer for is (red) Vermouth and Pomegranate concentrate. Tastes great and covers almost any flavor, plus mixes any components that may need alcohol solvent. For a two cup serving I start with mixing about 1/4 cup Vermouth and dry contents in my Magic Bullet, then add 1/4 cup Pomegranate concentrate and the remainder H2O    Delicious!

[nickdino]

Not my thing, i prefer natural ingredients. Does anyone know which ingredients will synergize with brocolli sprouts?

[tintinet]

I'm addicted to steamed broccoli sprouts with garlic and tamari- tastes terrific to me!