18 replies to this topic

[Mind_Paralysis]

Yeah, I'm currently in quite the bind - being hit by significant somnolence from a combo of NSI-189 and Atomoxetine.

 

I'm taking NSI-189 to heal damage to my hippocampus caused by burnout / cortisol-exposure and Atomoxetine to deal with Sluggish Cognitive Tempo. (quite the tiredness-combo, eh?!)

 

 

Modafinil has helped immensely in the past, but I can't get it prescribed at the moment, and it's hard as all get-out to actually GET prescribed in my area! Alas, Modafinil is also considered a hard narcotic and is illegal to purchase or import without a prescription.

So, what can I get without a prescription that has the most similar effect to Modafinil? There are several new eugeroics and modafinil-analogues out there these days, all cropping up just a few years ago - but what's the general consensus here? Which ones are worth it?

 

I need a legal alternative, and I need it NOW!

[gamesguru]

as far as the natural world is concerned, the following are indicated^{[by whom?]} in narcolepsy, sleep apnea or chronic fatigue.. where energy levels are severely compromised

• nicotine, ephedrine, caffeine, theo- bromine/phylline
• arecoline, cotinine, cathine, cytisine
• ginkgo, ginsengs, gotu kola, rhodiola, st johns, country mallow, cat's claw, schizandra
• Ca/Mg/Zn
• you might try some more general stuff like olive or artichoke extract, royal jelly and bee pollen, ALCAR, lysine and inositol... homecooked lowcarb C.R. and some mental exercises to get the ball rolling

Edited by gamesguru, 05 January 2017 - 03:33 PM.

[jack black]

Adrafinil is modafinil prodrug. Legal in USA, but not sure about Europe.
It works, but it gave me headaches, even in small doses, which I took a sign I have too much stimulation already.

I'm thinking that strattera thing is not for you. Keep trying other things. Have you tried carnosine? This is the best thing I tried so far. Gentle but effective stimulation via histamine release.

[Mind_Paralysis]

God bless ya' for takin' the time to answer GeeGee. = )

 

 

as far as the natural world is concerned, the following are indicated^{[by whom?]} in narcolepsy, sleep apnea or chronic fatigue.. where energy levels are severely compromised

• nicotine, ephedrine, caffeine, theo- bromine/phylline
• arecoline, cotinine, cathine, cytisine
• ginkgo, ginsengs, gotu kola, rhodiola, st johns, country mallow, cat's claw, schizandra
• Ca/Mg/Zn
• you might try some more general stuff like olive or artichoke extract, royal jelly and bee pollen, lysine and inositol, homecooked lowcarb C.R. and some mental exercises to get the ball rolling

 

 

The marked I already know doesn't work - they never really have, not on me.

 

CaMg/Zn I've got covered with both dairy-products (cheese-lover) and Zink-citrate + magnesium-citrate, timed at different times of evening as well - they don't do anything noticeable - seems to make it slightly, slightly easier to fall asleep when combined.

 

Mental exercises I would normally agree to an extent on, but it's gotten so bad at the moment that I can't do them! A small walk helps to some small extent, but I can't really muster up enough energy to do any cardio, nor any strength-exercises.

 

(ATX is curious really - two days ago it gave me more energy and I started more physicalities, but now it's drained me completely! Overall, physical, as well as mental, activity was MARKEDLY higher on modafinil - btw vyvanse, in low dose, doesn't actually seem to be doing as much)
 

I'm looking into Cathine and Cotinine - KHAT, huh...? Generally considered to be mostly SNS-activating I believe, however I do see that it has some CNS-effects as well - which is highly encouraging, since it appears to be selective for NE! : D

 

Especially the mirror-enantiomer of Cathine, L-Cathine, seems to be THE RIGHT STUFF!!

 

https://en.wikipedia...pseudoephedrine

 

Might actually turn out to be a SUPERIOR drug for the treatment of Sluggish Cognitive Tempo, if it was to EVER be used medically - or even isolated and sold as a nootropic - but since most peeps do NOT respond the same beneficial way to NE-activity, I suppose it will languish in utter dis-fame for the foreseeable future.

 

Sadly I just checked, and in my jurisdiction Khat is actually illegal, which is unusual, since it's not generally considered to be such in most other jurisdictions, but here it's illegal.

 

I might as well get Modafinil in that case...

 

[Mind_Paralysis]

Adrafinil is modafinil prodrug. Legal in USA, but not sure about Europe.
It works, but it gave me headaches, even in small doses, which I took a sign I have too much stimulation already.

I'm thinking that strattera thing is not for you. Keep trying other things. Have you tried carnosine? This is the best thing I tried so far. Gentle but effective stimulation via histamine release.

 

Big cheers for replying Jack - it's sorely needed an evening like this. God-damn I'm a wreck today...

 

It's actually worked in the past, but the sedation is something I didn't count on - it seems like if ATX and NSI somehow potentiates each others sedating properties - I CAN'T quit NSI-189 now though! I don't have much left, and I need to keep the dosing coming in order to actually get some neurogenesis going - otherwise I'll just waste it.

 

Likewise with ATX, I can't back down in dosing! The sedation is something a lot of people report - seems to be some kind of response from the Alpha-2-receptors - increased NE actually hits these auto-receptors first, which DOWN-REGULATE NE-activity, meaning that before it gets to steady-state and an active dosage - ATX actually causes DECREASED NE-activity at first - once it breaks through though...! Oooh mama! Good stuff.

 

This limit is however enhanced by NSI-189 for some god-damn reason... but since I can't back down, I have to add the best thing there is, both in my own and others experience, when it comes to dealing with somnolence from both:

 

An Eugeroic.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that there is no true substitute for Eugeroic effects - I need something different than the regular suspects when it comes to pharmacology.
 

 

Currently trying to figure out the legalities of importing stuff to neighbouring countries and other EU-districts, where I have some connections, to try and get me some Modafinil - it really is the best thing I've possibly ever taken!

Enhances every antidepressant to an unparalleled degree for me - somnolence and fatigue makes me depressed and anxious.

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 05 January 2017 - 04:47 PM.

[jack black]

I checked adrafinil for you and it's unregulated in UK too.

[Finn]

In Sweden adrafinil is at least on this list.

 

https://lakemedelsve..._2016_01_21.pdf

 

Since modafinil is schedule IV in Sweden, you should be careful if considering ordering any modafinil analogue or pro-drug, even if is not listed yet anywhere, many countries have ways to give some spanking for designer drugs / designer narcotics before they are even listed anywhere as anykind of narcotic.

 

In Finland if you order designer drug that hasn't been added to any narcotics lists yet, you might be convicted for pharmaceutical crime, for which one can be sentenced to fines or up to 1 year in prison.

 

Finnish Medicines Agency's, Fimea's, pharmaceutical list is just directive and guiding, not definitive, whether substance is pharmaceutical or not according to the pharmaceutical laws, is decided ultimately by the court.

 

In practice, you usually get prosecuted only if you order drugs on Fimea's pharma list, or unlisted designer drug, unlisted pharmaceuticals usually get just confiscated and destroyed.

 

For ordering a listed pharmaceutical substance, like Piracetam, you get prosecuted and might get usually like 10-30 day-fines, fines that are based on your taxed income. 

 

For ordering a unlisted pharmaceutical substance, like Noopept, you apparently usually get just love letter of it being confiscated and destroyed. (you could be prosecuted for pharmaceutical crime in this case also but apparently the policy has been usually not to prosecute in these cases)

 

If you order a new designer drug / designer narcotic, that hasn't been added to narcotic list or pharmaceutical lists, you will still get prosecuted, court will decide that the designer drug is obviously not a dietary supplement, but at least a pharma grade substance as defines by pharmaceutical laws, and the sentences will usually be higher than for regular pharmaceutical crime, though maximum sentenced are not as high as for narco crimes. 

 

While court deciding some unlisted substance to be a narcotic might be unfair and arbitrary, court declaring an unlisted designer narcotic as not-a-dietary-supplement but at least as a pharmaceutical strength substance, is much less arbitrary, since designer drugs are always obviously at least pharma grade substances, not a nutritional supplements.

 

Since modafinil is narcotic in Sweden, you might get hit by whatever anti-designer drug laws you have there, or pharmaceutical laws used as flexible anti-designer drug laws, if you order a modafinil pro-drug or any analogue of modafinil like Hydrafinil (Fluorenol), even if they are not listed anywhere as banned yet.

Edited by Finn, 05 January 2017 - 09:40 PM.

[jroseland]

I hate to be blatantly promotional here but since you're asking I developed a modafinil alternative...
It's a combination of racetams along with some special derivatives of magnesium and tyrosine.

I've used it as my regular stock for 2 years and it has a very similar effect to modafinil. I've sold it to about 40 people who had a similar experience with it.

See http://www.limitless...lternative.html

[Meggo]

Synephrine extract is being sold everywhere i think

[Mind_Paralysis]

Ok... today is a curious day. Physical activity is UP - and I feel CLEARLY more stimulated than sedated by ATX - I've actually done several strength-exercises this morning! My reflexes and attention is improved as well - I performed better in an online video-game today, judging by the actual scores I received in-game.

 

Something which was impossible yesterday...

 

The difference? I took MIRTAZAPIN last night, added to my sleep-cocktail, to make sure I fall asleep on time. That COULD be the difference... for those wondering, Mirtazapin antagonises Alpha-2-receptors, meaning that it could actually have DIALLED DOWN the inhibiting effect of the connection-loop which the brain responds with, when ATX increases Adrenergic tone in the brain.

(interesting btw, how ATX and SSRI's sort of work in an opposite way - ATX immediately causes down-regulation of NE, while SSRI's take several weeks to downregulate 5ht - the end result is the same though: both take a long time to reach true therapeutic effects - on SCT and anxiety-symptoms respectively.)

 

Huh. I might have to start using Mirtazapine regularly again then.

 

(I quit using it because it was REALLY starting to give me weight-gain - I was getting dangerously higher percentages of abdominal-fat - not over-weight, but percentally it was a tremendous increase compared to my usual skinny state)

 

 

In Sweden adrafinil is at least on this list.

 

https://lakemedelsve..._2016_01_21.pdf

 

Since modafinil is schedule IV in Sweden, you should be careful if considering ordering any modafinil analogue or pro-drug, even if is not listed yet anywhere, many countries have ways to give some spanking for designer drugs / designer narcotics before they are even listed anywhere as anykind of narcotic.

 

In Finland if you order designer drug that hasn't been added to any narcotics lists yet, you might be convicted for pharmaceutical crime, for which one can be sentenced to fines or up to 1 year in prison.

 

Finnish Medicines Agency's, Fimea's, pharmaceutical list is just directive and guiding, not definitive, whether substance is pharmaceutical or not according to the pharmaceutical laws, is decided ultimately by the court.

 

In practice, you usually get prosecuted only if you order drugs on Fimea's pharma list, or unlisted designer drug, unlisted pharmaceuticals usually get just confiscated and destroyed.

 

For ordering a listed pharmaceutical substance, like Piracetam, you get prosecuted and might get usually like 10-30 day-fines, fines that are based on your taxed income. 

 

For ordering a unlisted pharmaceutical substance, like Noopept, you apparently usually get just love letter of it being confiscated and destroyed. (you could be prosecuted for pharmaceutical crime in this case also but apparently the policy has been usually not to prosecute in these cases)

 

If you order a new designer drug / designer narcotic, that hasn't been added to narcotic list or pharmaceutical lists, you will still get prosecuted, court will decide that the designer drug is obviously not a dietary supplement, but at least a pharma grade substance as defines by pharmaceutical laws, and the sentences will usually be higher than for regular pharmaceutical crime, though maximum sentenced are not as high as for narco crimes. 

 

While court deciding some unlisted substance to be a narcotic might be unfair and arbitrary, court declaring an unlisted designer narcotic as not-a-dietary-supplement but at least as a pharmaceutical strength substance, is much less arbitrary, since designer drugs are always obviously at least pharma grade substances, not a nutritional supplements.

 

Since modafinil is narcotic in Sweden, you might get hit by whatever anti-designer drug laws you have there, or pharmaceutical laws used as flexible anti-designer drug laws, if you order a modafinil pro-drug or any analogue of modafinil like Hydrafinil (Fluorenol), even if they are not listed anywhere as banned yet.

 

Thank you for the run-down of legalities in some of the most immediate jurisdictions in my sphere of influence.

 

Interestingly, I was checking the legalities for ordering into Switzerland, and it's tricky... I can't find it listed anywere on SwissMedic! Yet no nootropics-vendor ships there - I'm starting to think that has more to do with the MOA of Swiss-customs than with anything legal though - because Modafinil doesn't seem to be a narcotic in Swiss.

 

Apparently Swiss hates any and all packages from third-world countries like India, so those would get searched immediately, and destroyed. Rather interesting how strict the medication-regulation-laws are in Swiss btw - in general it's nothing but governmental apothecaries, strictly controlled.

 

Which is curious, since Swiss usually has everything deregulated and the Govt. has a very small role to play in every-day life in Swiss.

 

I hate to be blatantly promotional here but since you're asking I developed a modafinil alternative...
It's a combination of racetams along with some special derivatives of magnesium and tyrosine.

I've used it as my regular stock for 2 years and it has a very similar effect to modafinil. I've sold it to about 40 people who had a similar experience with it.

See http://www.limitless...lternative.html

 

Well, I'll have a look at least, although I have my doubts that it can help someone truly as ill as me.

 

Synephrine extract is being sold everywhere i think

 

Synephrine?? Well, that's new! A compound in citrus-fruit, apparently sold in pre-workout blends... Selective for NE - however, the potenty in the CNS is debatable - seems to cause mostly peripheral effects.

 

It seems to work as a direct agonist of Alpha-1-receptors - which is a bit scary actually, since direct agonism can have its draw-backs. There's also the problem that symptoms of SCT are believed (believe my ASS! fMRI and PET-scans have showed it CLEARLY!) to be connected to the Superior Parietal Lobe (SPL) - and a full mapping of the area revealed that the Adrenergic receptors primarily located in the region, are of the Alpha-TWO(2)-variety.

 

This probably means Synephrine isn't useful to me, but cheers for the suggestion.

[Great White7]

Do you buy NSI-189 and make the capsules yourself?

[Mind_Paralysis]

Do you buy NSI-189 and make the capsules yourself?

 

I buy it in powdered form, then I bought a scale and capsules from Amazon - then I make my finalized capsules myself.

 

Best way to do it, imho! : )

Well, if you're rich you can always buy  a capsule-machine and then hire someone to measure it out for you - it would save a lot of time, that's for sure!
 

[gamesguru]

what saves even more time? skip the capsules lol

I usually just spoon bacopa out on my tongue and slosh it down with a gulp of water. minimal residue. I hear one of the racetams tastes god awful? can't remember maybe faso- or colou-
I'm generally not a pussy when it comes to acrid substances but haven't tried many racetams. may have met my match

and i respect you wanting to give me a nickname, but can we please do better than geegee? it makes me feel like I'm your aunt Gertrude who may or may not sport a fanny pack and binge out on Paranormal Activity to a sleeve of oreos

Edited by gamesguru, 06 January 2017 - 01:23 PM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

what saves even more time? skip the capsules lol

I usually just spoon bacopa out on my tongue and slosh it down with a gulp of water. minimal residue. I hear one of the racetams tastes god awful? can't remember maybe faso- or colou-
I'm generally not a pussy when it comes to acrid substances but haven't tried many racetams. may have met my match

and i respect you wanting to give me a nickname, but can we please do better than geegee? it makes me feel like I'm your aunt Gertrude who may or may not sport a fanny pack and binge out on Paranormal Activity to a sleeve of oreos

 

Haha! Nooo...! I don't want yucky taste every damn day! ^^ Reason I'm thinking is because I was slightly traumatized by FASOracetam (that's the notorious racetam, btw) and I don't want to repeat the experience - mainly because I'm a bitter super-taster, so I don't want anything to possibly make me think NSI-189 or some other medication is a bad thing - it should be something to look forward to, not shy away from! = )

 

It'll be interesting to see if you have met your match... so far, I have yet to see anyone who actually keeps taking it sublingual - almost everyone, to my knowledge, quickly changes to capping, because of the monumentally bad taste.

 

(interesting side-note, this reminds me of a friend with Aspergers who has decreased sensory sensitivity - he hardly feels much taste! I had some old hemp-based protein-powder from my foray into vegetarianism and muscle-building, and it tasted god-awful! Like moldy hay...! I was going to throw it out, but he said it tasted decently, so I let him have it, and he gulped it all down, no problemo! I also had to tell him when he got a cat, that the litter was smelling really badly... he was putting it into the compost in his kitchen! Gaaah...!

Btw - might want to check yourself for Autism, with that decreased taste of yours! Maybe you've got that, instead of BORDERLINE? I believe you are one of the folks who have noted the similarities between the two)
 

I'll work on that nick-name... Gee-Gee. ; )

[gamesguru]

im definitely borderline the question is what else.  dont think i strict fit asperger, nor schizotypy.  evolution can fuck off.  i'm my own kingdom.

 

aspergers has increased sensitivity to sound and light (started by a pindrop, squinting eyes even when the sun is barely out).  problem is both disorders turn up search results for hyperacusis and photophobia, so this can hardly be used to distinguish the two.  even if you can rigorously distinguish the two, you'll start to find i dont strict fit either diagnosis.  that's the conclusion i've come to.

 

not sure how taste and smell are affected.  i definitely don't have the best smell, but my taste has to be about average.  i hate hemp protein (nutiva) unless its mixed with like dates and bananas and creamy grassfed whey.  Strongly prefer something heavy stevia, like the bodylogix vegan vanilla or sunwarrior chocolate.

 

i'm sure fasoracetam tastes god awful.  but you forget i'm a disciplined guy, willing to take a bit of pain for gain

[Mind_Paralysis]

OK, so today I'm once more tired and fatigued - anticipatory anhedonia brought on by being unable to complete things as well - my results in online gaming were down too - signs of attention and reaction-speed being DOWN.

 

Why the h*ll does this happen?! I changed nothing from yesterday! I even took the same small dosage of Mirtazapine! Hmm... I suppose it's tolerance to the alpha-2-antagonism, which then leads to alpha-2-agonism again, which means lower NE. AGAIN!

 

I don't know that I can take this - being tired one day, and functional another day - it's too disappointing - impossible to make any plans or to try and make improvements in life. The sedation is too damn hardcore.

 

Right... EUGEROIC.

 

Man do I need it... but HOW?!

Going to have to break the law here, methinks - because I'd rather be dead than live even a single SECOND more like this! Enough is enough.

[jack black]

I'm thinking that strattera thing is not for you. Keep trying other things. Have you tried carnosine? This is the best thing I tried so far. Gentle but effective stimulation via histamine release.

 

i'm repeating this in case the OP missed my point(s).

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

I'm thinking that strattera thing is not for you. Keep trying other things. Have you tried carnosine? This is the best thing I tried so far. Gentle but effective stimulation via histamine release.

 

i'm repeating this in case the OP missed my point(s).

 

 

Hmm, I suppose I could give it a go. Where do you find the info that it's a histamine-releaser though? All I can find is info on its properties as a anti-oxidant and it's potential effects on aging and apoptosis.

 

Don't you figure I should try something like Pitolisant, which is proven to be a potent H3-antagonist (thereby causing histamine-release, since it's an auto-receptor) or something like Sulbutiamine and / or Pyritinol? (pyritinol in perticular, methinks)
 

Going to have a look-see for Pitolisant methinks - that actually seems like a good option, not considered a narcotic in my jurisdiction either, nor is it well-known by customs or health-services, so might just slip by.

[jack black]

carnosine = beta alanine + histidine. histidine->histamine.

H3 antagonist is a very good idea if you can find one. please keep us posted.