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Testosterone and aging

testosterone aging diet supplements lowering testosterone androgens testosterone and aging

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#1 Annvdb

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 07:47 AM


I have had high testosterone and androgens since starting puberty (I am now 30), my estrogen, progesteron etc... is all normal. Only this year my androgens (androstenedione) was normal.
This causes only a bit of pimples on my back and some excess hairs on my body. My periods are completely normal, I have a feminine voice, narrow waist but small boobs, I store most of my weight on my ass and thighs.

Now I was wondering if someone knows more about the link between these hormones and aging. I have always looked much younger than my age. I am 30 now and people think I am anywhere from 17-23. 
I ask this because I want to try to take certain herbal pills to try and decrease testosterone. Like maca, saw palmetto, primrose oil etc... I just dont want to tamper with the anti aging thing I have going on.

Thanks in advance


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#2 Annvdb

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 08:28 AM

My test taken before ovulation in luteal phase 

main-qimg-51e3effb143e23e7ae3a2a93623396


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#3 Matt

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 05:37 PM

Did you try spearmint tea (100%) and Licorice Root extract (non DGL) ? 

I drink Palanquin's Spearmint Herbal Tea. You can find it on Amazon. it's quite nice :)  
 

I'm not sure that saw palmetto is a good idea.. 

Read this: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3693613/


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#4 Annvdb

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 05:41 PM

Hey Matt :D :D !

I tried spearmint before but it didnt work. I got the leaves tho and I soaked them myself in hot water.
Nnot lirorice root extract yet. 

Checking the article now!


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#5 Matt

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 07:12 PM

Hi! :D

 

It was definitely spearmint, not peppermint? :p  Well, that tea is really nice anyway lol. I forgot to mention before that spearmint reduces free testosterone (total is unchanged), and licorice root extract reduces total testosterone. I thought the combination might be more effective. I take both of these.. I use the Swanson brand, and it's super cheap! I just don't know the quality of the product. However, I did get my testosterone checked and it went down to the low end of normal for me.(17.9 ng/dl to 14.3 ng/dl (ref 8.8-36.7)). I think you've nothing to lose by trying the combination I mention... they are relatively cheap.

White peony is another supplement (swanson) that increases aromatase, which may increase estrogen and decrease testosterone. 

 

I suppose your doctor has discussed things like Spironolactone? But I assume you want to stay with natural things? 

 

High doses of biotin can cause acne breakouts from increased oil production. I experienced this when I was taking 5000 mcg!

 

Anyway that's all for now. Hope the article was useful :)

 

 



#6 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 11:31 PM

How the heck is that high testosterone for a woman when you're only at 55ng/dl? Given your age it's probably lower than normal lol. Most women in their 30s-40s I see look like transsexual males, deep voices, flat chests, large muscle mass, aggressive and sweat smelling, or just really thin and boney. Yuck! I No, there is no evidence that testosterone is anti-aging maybe with the exception of a few misconceptions based upon testosterone increasing things that are postulated to be anti-aging like growth hormone, but I highly doubt this silly myth has any basis in research. On the other hand, there are good reasons why testosterone may accelerate aging.

 

Estrogen does have clear anti-aging effects, but it's interesting to look at diseases where women have very high estrogen levels and lack androgen receptors (complete androgen insensitivity), or have excessive aromatase activity and thus very low testosterone even for a woman and very high estrogen - those women, though they look very feminine (real, natural, fertile femininity), don't look young, or old for that matter.

 

I think the reason girls like yourself look young for your age is rather a hormone deficiency of whatever kind, the same reason why guys like Bill Gates has looked young for his age - he doesn't have high estrogen, he just clearly lacks both male and female hormones. Maybe a hormone deficiency of both male and female hormones causes a deficiency in igf-1 and thus a deceleration of aging. Makes perfect sense.

 

My suggestion to you would be to obviously reduce your testosterone - why not? I can only seen possible gains for you by doing that.

There are pharmaceutical drugs for this purpose. Keep in mind that progesterone IS androgenic, there's a reason they've been developing synthetic progesterones to treat its deficiency - because natural progesterone has androgenic side-effects in women.


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#7 aconita

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 04:05 AM

The reason why progestin (synthetic progesterone) has been developed is because natural hormones aren't patentable.

 

Progestin is dangerous and a very irresponsible alternative.  

 

Progesterone isn't androgenic (or estrogenic, for that matter), it is a regulator toward optimal balance.

 

Tampering with hormones, especially at young age, isn't usually a smart choice unless serious pathological unbalance has been diagnosticated.

 

Small boobs are delicious, it is a myth that men go crazy for big ones, big boobs are very unlikely to have nice shape and nipples, are very prone to sagging and don't make women more feminine, quite uncomfortable to carry around too. 

 

Connoisseurs knows very well the perfect size is Champagne cup. :)

 

The most estrogenic natural compound known is hops...but I strongly discourage to attempt altering what you have got supplementing with it or any other substance.

 


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#8 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:27 PM

The reason why progestin (synthetic progesterone) has been developed is because natural hormones aren't patentable.

 

Progestin is dangerous and a very irresponsible alternative.  

 

Progesterone isn't androgenic (or estrogenic, for that matter), it is a regulator toward optimal balance.

 

I understand and agree with what you're saying but I have to say that natural progesterone IS androgenic. Just look at women with progesterone receptor mutations, they look like female versions of tough guys.

High progesterone in women is characterized as:

1.Large/long forehead.

2. Deep voice.

3. Large, feminine lips.

4. Big breasts.

5. Unusually large muscle mass for a female.

6. And more..

 

This woman is a great example of the high progesterone female phenotype (Leah Remini)

 

https://youtu.be/SFZ5FbUmH7M?t=1m1s

 

Yes, she looks "hot" doesn't she? That's what women with higher testosterone tends to do, oddly enough. Because most men prefer infertile women over fertile ones. Most men prefer masculine women over feminine women.


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#9 aconita

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:30 PM

If progesterone was androgenic all athletes would be on it, it would be in the WADA list of doping compounds, all bodybuilders and gym rats would be on it and raving about it in the numerous online forums, all sport's supplements companies would carry it...and boobs would not grow on it (actually the opposite would happen).

 

https://en.wikipedia..._banned_by_WADA

 

http://www.pharmacor...aceptives_3.php

 

Sorry, but it seems difficult to find online links to references about the beauteousness of Champagne sized boobs (in English, at least) :)


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#10 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:54 PM

If progesterone was androgenic all athletes would be on it, it would be in the WADA list of doping compounds, all bodybuilders and gym rats would be on it and raving about it in the numerous online forums, all sport's supplements companies would carry it...and boobs would not grow on it (actually the opposite would happen).

 

https://en.wikipedia..._banned_by_WADA

 

http://www.pharmacor...aceptives_3.php

 

Sorry, but it seems difficult to find online links to references about the beauteousness of Champagne sized boobs (in English, at least) :)

 

Progesterone is both feminizing and masculinizing. You're confusing androgenic with anabolic. Athletes don't care much about growing more body hair, a deeper voice, or such, although it would probably make them look better as athletes. Seriously, look at the Youtube video I linked. Look at her forehead, lips and breasts. THAT is the high progesterone phenotype, I've seen too many women who look exactly like this to believe it's all coincidental. They all have the same few traits in common: big lips, long forehead, deep voice, masculine personality, larger breasts than other women (or given their masculine traits you'd expect them to be flat chested) and some of them have a bit larger muscle mass.

 

 

Oh btw some men have successfully used progesterone as an anabolic "steroid". The reason they don't use it is because it causes loss of libido in high amounts.


Edited by PeaceAndProsperity, 09 March 2017 - 11:01 PM.

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#11 aconita

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 11:11 PM

It happens that androgens are anabolic (even if not the only anabolic compounds).

 

They (androgen) are one of three types of sex hormones, the others being estrogens like estradiol and progestogens like progesterone.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen

 

It means there are 3 different  sex hormones' families: androgens, estrogens and progestogens (of which progesterone is part).

 

Enough to clarify that progesterone isn't an androgen (or an estrogen, for that matter)?



#12 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 11:47 PM

It happens that androgens are anabolic (even if not the only anabolic compounds).

 

They (androgen) are one of three types of sex hormones, the others being estrogens like estradiol and progestogens like progesterone.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen

 

It means there are 3 different  sex hormones' families: androgens, estrogens and progestogens (of which progesterone is part).

 

Enough to clarify that progesterone isn't an androgen (or an estrogen, for that matter)?

 

Semantics. DHT is very highly androgenic but hardly anabolic and various androgens possess no anabolic effects whatsoever . Though estrogen does have some very mild anabolism to it (they want to create an anabolic drug that acts on one of the estrogen receptors).

Estrogen is a female sex hormone but in men it can have androgenic effects by sensitizing androgen receptors and it also causes typical androgenic behavior in males across many species when it is metabolized from aromatase in the brain (territorial behavior for example).

 

So, progesterone is not an androgen in itself but it has androgenic properties in both women and men, as well as feminizing properties or what is usually referred to as progestogenic effects. I guess you could say it is in between the two categories of sex hormones.

 

One of the side-effects of progesterone in women is acne and body hair growth, if my memory serves me right, and this is one of the reason for developing a feminizing progesterone (besides the whole patent idiocy).


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#13 aconita

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 02:53 AM

Climbing on glass and diving in a rabbit hole...

 

By the way I love the reference request about this post of mine:

 

If progesterone was androgenic all athletes would be on it, it would be in the WADA list of doping compounds, all bodybuilders and gym rats would be on it and raving about it in the numerous online forums, all sport's supplements companies would carry it...and boobs would not grow on it (actually the opposite would happen).

 

https://en.wikipedia..._banned_by_WADA

 

http://www.pharmacor...aceptives_3.php

 

Sorry, but it seems difficult to find online links to references about the beauteousness of Champagne sized boobs (in English, at least) :)


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I hope it's just about the boobs :)

 

...otherwise whom is asking for references needs to find an hobby, seriously.

 

 



#14 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:01 AM

 

 


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I hope it's just about the boobs :)

 

...otherwise whom is asking for references needs to find an hobby, seriously.

 

As always that's not me..

 


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#15 aconita

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:09 AM

That's relieving...



#16 Annvdb

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 08:41 AM

Well this sure is interesting to read about. My testosterone is low? I dont think so look at the reference ranges...

Anyway this is me, for reference: Dont get freaked out, I make ASMR videos so its a lot of whispering and soft spoken stuff XD

 



I have a high voice not a deep one, my forehead is a bit long but not excessive. Big lips, dont have much muscle mass. I mean I got strong legs but I dont look buff and would look more to the frail side vs the buff side. I have more long muscles and limbs, kind of like a dancer ( which I have been, been a dancer for over 9 years).  Small boobs but I like them, like someone else says they stay perky and look the same as when I was 17.  I do have larger lips but not super big. Just full.


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#17 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 11:41 AM

Well, you look infertile like 99% of women in the world. You're no Spanish or Asian woman, that's for sure.

You don't look masculine, you just look like you need more of the female hormones and you have some typical Caucasian traits (slender and frail build).


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#18 Annvdb

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 12:50 PM

pretty sure I am fertile as fuck like all the other woman in my family. I have a huge family and my family members almost all got pregnant from the first time trying :P I also have a lot of fertile cervical fluid around that time of the month.


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#19 Annvdb

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 12:59 PM

Also what do you mean with Asian woman? They often look frail as well, and often have no hips and also small boobs. I have wider hips, My hips are 98cm my waist is 68


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#20 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 01:15 PM

Asian women have the highest estrogen levels.

You are infertile because you lack breast development and fat deposits, so you won't be able to provide for your child if you ever have one.

Do you know why so many women buy baby milk from stores? Because they are infertile and cannot provide for the child themselves. Also because they have no intention..


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#21 Annvdb

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 01:21 PM

euh small breasts doesnt mean less milk! My aunt has small breasts just like me and so does my grandma and they all breastfed their children with ease....


And asian woman have small breasts as well!
Oh and my estrogen is actually to the higher side.
i was in my luteal phase of my cycle and it was 288,the max is 298


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#22 Annvdb

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 06:17 PM

Some info on breast size and milk production : http://www.bellybell...-breastfeeding/
Its a misconception that small breasts provide less milk. Also breasts swell a lot during pregnancy. My moms breasts went up 2 cups, my aunt her breasts as well. My grandma I have no idea. None of them had issues giving the breast. 


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#23 Matt

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 06:27 PM

Ann, why do you continue to respond? You know he's just being ridiculous. Look at his ratings on his profile.


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#24 Annvdb

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 06:35 PM

Sorry I dont post much on here, didnt think you could get ratings :) 


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#25 sthira

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 06:57 PM

...I want to try to take certain herbal pills to try and decrease testosterone. Like maca, saw palmetto, primrose oil etc... I just dont want to tamper with the anti aging thing I have going on.

Thanks in advance


Ann, you're beautiful and look perfectly healthy. Don't fret over testosterone levels if they're in a normal range. And fwiw, to my jaded eye, you look 17, not 30. I'm a professional ballet dancer, I'm used to endless anti aging bullshit, and I toss strong tiny women like you around in the air for a living -- I marvel at what women athletes with trained bodies are able to do on the floor -- who cares about testosterone levels.

..I dont look buff and would look more to the frail side vs the buff side. I have more long muscles and limbs, kind of like a dancer ( which I have been, been a dancer for over 9 years).


Stay on the healthy-eating dance and yoga path: that's fresh fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds, olive oil. That boring ole' plant based whole foods diet, an athletic routine, and stress management will keep you vibrant far more effectively than any useless, unregulated supplement hawked at you by the dollar talons.

Many of us here at this site believe effective lifespan altering therapies will be emerging from clinical trials in the years ahead. In the near term, senescent cell clearance looks promising. Meanwhile, the only "proven" arrest of "aging" is calorie restriction, and even that behavior is up for doubt (see the macaque studies).

Breathe deep, keep spreading calm through your ASMR videos, and soon I believe good things are headed our way through advances in longevity science.
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#26 Exception

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 03:44 AM

No, there is no evidence that testosterone is anti-aging maybe with the exception of a few misconceptions based upon testosterone increasing things that are postulated to be anti-aging like growth hormone, but I highly doubt this silly myth has any basis in research. On the other hand, there are good reasons why testosterone may accelerate aging.

 

I don't think the science on testosterone is settled, however testosterone levels decrease with age in men, and low T levels are associated with weaker muscles and bones, gain in fat, irritability, low sex drive, and insulin resistance. Lower levels of testosterone have also been associated with increased cardiovascular, cancer, and all-cause mortality. Recent research also appears to be showing that there is no testosterone replacement therapy causes increased cardiovascular risks.

 

I'm attaching a few sources.

 

However, if you think that testosterone accelerates aging, I'd like to hear about this so I can investigate it.

Attached Files



#27 juncheng

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 12:13 PM

Some of us that were low testosterone just feel older.  When I was first diagnosed with low testosterone, I had the testosterone of someone in his late 70's or early 80's.  And that's about how I felt.  I didn't just feel low in libido - I felt OLDER.
It turns out my gut feelings were right:  low testosterone negatively alters almost every key marker of aging.  In my case I am pretty sure I was low testosterone for decades and, as I'll show below, this was very likely very hard on my body.
Many people wonder why I very carefully watch what I eat and maintain a disciplined exercise routine. One of the primary reasons is that I am relatively certain that I was low testosterone for decades. Because of that, I think it is likely that I aged myself considerably and must now try to compensate for those years of "hard livin'".
Below we'll cover some of the ways that testosterone is associated with accelerated aging:
1. Telomerase. As you may know from My Link on Telomerase, there is a whole theory of aging that centers around our telomeres.  Basically, our cells divide over the course of our lifetime and the lion's share of them suffer a slight shortening of the end of their chromosomes, the telomere, each time.  This slight shortening eventually leads to aged, barely-functioning tissues.  Furthermore, this area of research is considered one of the most promising ways to actually extend maximum human lifespan, although that is too big of a subject to include here.
One of the keys to slowing down the erosion of our telomeres is increasing the activity of the key enzyme involved in this process, telomerase.  In the Above Link on Telomerase I clearly outline many natural strategies to increase telomerase.  However, testosterone (and estradiol) has been shown to do just this as well in a number of studies and on a number of cells.  Here are just a few examples:
a)  Bone Marrow Cells.  In one study of bone marrow cells, testosterone was found to increase TERT mRNA expression. (TERT and TERC are part of a whole suite of telomerase molecules.) [1] Interestingly enough, the researchers found that it was actually estrogen that increased telomerase and testosterone only got credit due to aromatization. Again, this just shows that "you can't fight your hormones!"
b) Stem Cells.  Researchers took human stem cells and found the estradiol (E2) turned on and off TERT and telomerase. [3] In this study they even examined which type of estrogen receptor was involved.  Again, this shows the estrogen to telomerase connection. (This has been seen in various cancer cells as well.) [4]
c) Testes. A study on rats shows a correlation at least between the lowered testosterone levels of aging with a decrease in telomerase activity. [2]
How does testosterone work its magic.  Well, we get a double benefit, because testosterone and estradiol boost telomerase activity.  Estradiol was found to do this through TERT expression.  (You don't want to go too high on TERT activity based on what I have read.) Check out this summary of the situation:
"Their novel studies demonstrate that androgens increased telomerase activity via a transcriptional mechanism in normal peripheral blood lymphocytes, bone marrow CD34+ cells, and lymphocytes from patients harboring heterozygous telomerase mutations. Interestingly, estradiol had a similar effect. Further investigation of the molecular basis for increased telomerase activity demonstrated that androgens undergo aromatization to estradiol, which then binds to the estrogen receptor-a to increase TERT expression. This is likely through estrogen response elements in the TERT promoter." [9]
2. Insulin.  One of the things I emphasize on this site is that as testosterone falls, insulin levels rise. And men that are low testosterone have been found to be greatly at risk for diabetes and Metabolic Syndrome (or prediabetes).  The problem is this increase in insulin levels is accompanied with increasing insulin resistance.
Once insulin resistance sets in, the body cannot push the glucose into the cells and blood glucose levels begin to rise.  And this is what will age many tissues in the body.  Elevated blood glucose levels are very hard on the body and why diabetics almost always have a shorter-than-average lifespan.
3. Inflammation.  Is there anything more dangerous to a man's long term health than inflammation?  Elevated inflammation has been linked to heart disease, many cancers and many autoimmune diseases, so it has to be near the top of the list. In addition, inflammation is part of one of the primary theories of aging.  One research summary stated that "we have proposed the theory of oxidation-inflammation as the main cause of aging." [5]
The key regulators of inflammation in the body are the "inflammatory cytokines" such as tnf alpha, IL-1, IL-6 and so on.  As I show in my link on Testosterone and Inflammation, low testosterone is associated with rising levels of almost all of these inflammatory messengers.
4. Boosting the Body's Natural Antioxidants.  One recent study found the following very important result:
"Extending our previous results, we show that treatment with testosterone, both in intramuscular or bioadhesive buccal formulations, increase plasma levels of Coenzyme Q10, lipophilic antioxidant, and total antioxidant capacity, measured with colorimetric method, in patients with secondary hypogonadism. Hypogonadism could represent a condition of oxidative stress, in turn related with augmented cardiovascular risk in such patients." [8]
5. Oxidation.  As mentioned in #3, one of the primary theories of aging deals with oxidation (coupled with inflammation). An increased oxidative load, for example is highly associated with "immunosenescence", which is the steady decline of the immune system with aging. [6] As you may have guessed, some oxidative systems have been associated with decreasing testosterone levels.  For example, castrated rats have been found to have greatly increased oxidative stress levels in the prostatic epithelium.
In my page on The Causes of Andropause, I point out that mitochondrial damage may be a cause of the age-related loss of testosterone.  If so, this could be explained by the heavy oxidative load and increase of reactive oxygen species from falling testosterone levels, in part anyway.  (Mitochondria, as the energy producers, are particularly vulnerable to free radical damage.)

REFERENCES:
1)   Blood, Sep10 2009, 114(11):2236-2243, "Sex hormones, acting on the TERT gene, increase telomerase activity in human primary hematopoietic cells"
2) Mol Cells, 1999 Jun 30, 9(3):286-91, "Downregulation of telomerase in rat during the aging process"
3) Molecules and Cells, 2008, 26(5):454-458, "Estrogen receptor-alpha mediates the effects of estradiol on telomerase activity in human mesenchymal stem cells"
4) Cancer Res, Dec 1 1999, 59:5917, "Estrogen Activates Telomerase"
5) Curr Pharm Des, 2009, 15(26):3003-26, "An update of the oxidation-inflammation theory of aging: the involvement of the immune system in oxi-inflamm-aging"
6) http://www.discovery...effect-or-both/
7) The American Journal of Pathology, Dec 2003, 163(6):2513�2522, "Androgenic Regulation of Oxidative Stress in the Rat Prostate : Involvement of NAD(P)H Oxidases and Antioxidant Defense Machinery during Prostatic Involution and Regrowth"
8) J Steroids Horm Sci, Published Jul 30 2013, 4:117, "Effects of Intramuscular or Bioadhesive Buccal Testosterone Treatment on Antioxidant Systems in Secondary Hypogonadism"
9) Blood, Sep 10 2009; Blood: 114(11), "HEMATOPOIESIS & STEM CELLS: TERTrific hormones promote hematopoiesis," by Laura S. Haneline

Dont know how much this is reliable though. Did you already lowered your T? Any changes?



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#28 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 12:17 PM

regurgitation bla bla bla


Edited by PeaceAndProsperity, 16 May 2017 - 12:19 PM.

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