142 replies to this topic

[zorba990]

I've been spraying diy msm and water with acetyl carnosine into my eyes without issues. I don't buy Into to the solution must be sterile or else showers and swims in random lakes would have blinded me by now. I keep it as clean as possible of course. I agree lecithin might not be a good idea.

[korpesh]

I swear my vision was sharper and more stable on NSI-189, and the presbyopia didn't vary so much.  It was still annoying, but it was at least stable.  Now after having been off a few months, my vision and presbyopia seem worse than they were originally.  Thanks for the stack recommendation.  I'm going to give them a shot, but I do hope these EV06 drops somehow make their way to market.

 

 

@puppalupacus What is a reputable source of the NSI-189? If I can get it, I'll definitely give it a shot to see if it also helps with mine.

[Puppalupacus]

I bought some from Strangelove on here as well as ordered direct from China (I don't remember the company, but it was not a smooth experience).  I stopped using NSI-189 a long time ago.  I question my own observations of the results and wonder if it was just placebo at this point.

[korpesh]

Oh, man, that's too bad. I've experimented with a lot of different things and often come to the same conclusions... thought it was working great, but then end up wondering if it was just placebo. Thanks anyway.

[OP2040]

I'd be in for the choline ester.  But I am also dealing with incipient ARMD at a young age cause I have literally every ARMD gene it's possible to have.  So I don't want to derail the thread but obviously there's some overlap.  I'm also interested in some cyclodextrin/trehalose eye drops to clear up any drusen. I found this really extensive patent that Novartis is sitting on.  To me it's weird you can patent a sugar for a "use", but I'm sure they did it for semi-nefarious reasons.  Anyway, it shows that they did some tests and it did clear drusen, but unfortunately it was intravitreal.  My understanding of cyclodextrin was that it was a great carrier and it could potentially work as an eye drop that aids in delivery of a number of molecules, aside from healping clear out the gunk too.  There is another study on rats I think that showed cyclodextrin clearance of cholesterol deposits in the macula and I think this was just with eyedrops.  The cholesterol deposits are different from drusen, as drusen is more to do with inflammatory reactions and complement system, but they are still damaging.  Being able to target all these at once is a great opportunity.  I just need to know if it would be safe.

https://patents.goog.../US8158609B1/en

 

 

[katzenjammer]

Are there any updates on this? 

 

It seems as if there are a huge number of eye drop solutions in the "hopper" - not sure if any of these are going anywhere:  https://theophthalmo...rsighted-future

 

 

[Oakman]

Well, seems there are some new Lanosterol drops available on Amazon. Not cheap, but they are available. I've used NAC drops, also the MSM drops, and both in combination. Really hard to tell if they do what they advertise, it being such a long term process. Even these suggest 8 week intervals for checking any improvement. There pictures of improvements in dog cataracts are encouraging.

 

Here's the description for one...

 

LumenPro Pet Eye Drops 

 

Promotes Vision Clarity in Animals with Cataracts | Scientifically Formulated Lanosterol and N-Acetylcarnosine (NAC) Combination

 

   ✔ LUMENPRO - While not a medication, LumenPro uses cutting-edge nanotechnology and delivers two natural, cataracts-fighting ingredients effectively to the eyes.

✔ SUPERIOR - LumenPro’s laboratory-tested mechanism delivers and retains active ingredients on the lens for a longer time, allowing for better penetration than competitor products.

✔ RESEARCHED - LumenPro uses a scientifically proven formula, shown to dissolve glycoproteins in animal lenses in peer-reviewed studies (1)

✔ RISK FREE - We are so confident in our product’s quality and effectiveness that after 8 weeks, if you don’t love it. we'll buy it back**. 
** require proof of purchase, refunds are given on a pro-rata basis contact seller for more details

Edited by Oakman, 03 March 2019 - 07:41 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Interesting, but the thread has drifted from presbyopia to cataracts.  Is there any indication that the above works for presbyopia?

 

 

 

[ta5]

The before and after pictures of the dogs for the LumenPro drops are impressive. I see the pictures came from the study:

 

Nature. 2015 Jul 30;523(7562):607-11. doi: 10.1038/nature14650. Epub 2015 Jul 22.

Lanosterol reverses protein aggregation in cataracts.

Zhao L1, Chen XJ2, et al.

PMID: 26200341

Full text with the pictures is on sci-hub

 

Lanosterol (100mg)-loaded nanoparticles were initially injected into the vitreous cavity in the test eye using a 28-gauge needle, and then were given every 3 days for the duration of the experiment. Treatment eyes or sham eyes were randomized. The control eye was given an injection with empty nanoparticle carriers as a negative control. The treatment eyes were treated with lanosterol in topical eye drops (see below for eye drop formulation). One 50-ml drop of lanosterol was administered three times daily to the test eye over 6 weeks.

...

25mM lanosterol in the topical vehicle solution. Double distilled H2O was added to a mixture of 12.5 g lanosterol, 1.1 g (EDTA)2Na, 0.055 g alkyldimethyl- benzylammonium chloride and 200 ml EtOH to a final volume of 1.1 l.

 

From an answer on Amazon, someone says the box says the percentage of Lanosterol in LumenPro is 0.25%.

 

There's another product called Lanomax. Their website has this to say:

 

It is clear what the experimental results of both Zhang's and Minija's teams mean; while lanosterol is certainly related directly to the treatment of cataracts, the simple lanosterol solution as used by both the research teams has a limitation in transferring the lanosterol molecules into the crystalline lens. Hence, simple lanosterol eye drops alone cannot deliver the lanosterol molecules into the lens, which is why Zhang's team injected the lanosterol solution directly into the vitreous body of the eyes after anesthetizing the seven dogs. In conclusion, the simple lanosterol solution as used by Zhang's and Minija's teams cannot be expected to have any cataract treatment effect when used solely in the form of eye drops. The drops must be used in conjunction with injections.

...

Lanomax™ uses an innovative drug delivery system built on the latest advanced nanotechnology, called ThruDelivery™, to deliver lanosterol molecules into the crystalline lens without an injection. 

... 

We discovered this ThruDelivery™ system by fortuitous chance in the winter of 2015, and have decided not to disclose its secrets to the world by way of patents or articles. It's like Coca-Cola's manufacturing know-how. Currently, this amazing lanosterol delivery system is only found in Lanomax™ eye drops. However, please be advised that we cannot inadvertently include information about this system in the ingredients table of Lanomax™.

 

 

[Woody42]

We will get to presbyopia in a moment but first a little about my supliment history  A couple of weeks ago I took a

bunch of things ~ 3000 mg of fisetin, 500mg turmeric with 10 mg piperine and 

1000mg quercetin for 4 days.   I have also been using Can-c for my cataracts for about 3 weeks but have noticed

no improvement yet.  But about a week ago I started taking 200mg coq10, 160 mg leutine, 20 mg PQQ, 200mg

Nicotinamide Riboside and 300mg benfortimine.  I can't say my cataracts are any better but the last 2 days for the 

first time in a couple of years I don't need my reading glasses I only used a 1  but still needed them.

 

This is strange I also suffered from myopia all my life till I started taking vitamin D and that substantial cleared up.

That is I slowly went from 20/80  to 20/30 . Oh I know myopia ofton gets better when you age but in my case if I

skip taking vitamin D for a couple of weeks I have to go back to wearing glasses for a while till my vitamin d level

gets back up.   Now if I could just find a supliment for my darn obstructive sleep apna !

 

[korpesh]

Hey Guys... figured I'd check back in on this topic, as I continue to get more and more annoyed with my vision, and the fact that there is apparently already a safe and near permanent cure (https://www.eyeworld...ia-found-encore) for presbyopia already out there.  I have even contacted Novartis a few times to try to get in their never-ending studies on their drops, but never get a response back. ...I'm tired of waiting, and found this place. https://www.medkoo.com/products/12288  Does anyone with a bit more experience buying from these types of places know how we can get it from them? Do we need someone that works at a medical office to order it or something? Thanks for any insight.

[katzenjammer]

Interesting, it seems as if they're getting close; I'd be surprised if someone somewhere doesn't start selling the compound (obviously for some other ailment, 'not for human consumption" etc.)

[korpesh]

Well, if anyone with some basic chemistry knowledge who knows how to turn this https://www.medkoo.c...ucts/12288 intoan eye drop, and the correct wording to use when ordering from a place like this, wants to organize a group buy, I'd definitely be in. If I contact them, I'm pretty sure I'm going to immediately give away that I'm not a medical researcher. Lol

[korpesh]

So, seriously, nobody with some chemistry knowledge wants to get this and turn it into the eye drop that corrects our presbyopia? https://www.medkoo.c...ucts/12288 into I'll definitely chip in on the costs, I just don't know how to do it. ...Apparently the Novartis drops, although they've already been proven to work, aren't going to be commercially available until 2023.

[hamishm00]

Can anyone think of a reason why adding alpha lipoic acid to prop. glycol to use as an eye dropper will not work?

[YOLF]

From 4:

Effect of lanosterol on human cataract nucleus

...It is also possible that proteins other than lanosterol play a role in senile human lenses, given that the earlier study was done in a family with congenital cataract. The differences in the molecular pathways of congenital and senile cataracts have been elucidated by Hejtmancik et al.[5],[6] Multiple authors have shown that congenital cataracts are usually secondary to accumulation of altered protein residues due to missense mutations and ferritin levels in specific cases. They have also indicted age-related imbalance of chaperones and accumulation of degraded and denatured normal proteins in senile cataract.[7] Further, basic science research will provide us more distinction between the two pathologies.

It also remains to be seen if immersion of intact lenses with the capsule or altering lanosterol concentration or the solute may result in positive outcomes.

 

So sadly this looks like its probably a dead end?  :(

 

 lanosterol-incubated-human-nucleus.jpg   290.33KB   0 downloads

 

I'm not so sure. I've attached a picture from the study. Notice that the after lens is uniformly obstructed  or occluded. In the before picture, the obstruction is concentrated in the North, and North East quadrants.

 

This tells me the aggregates are disentangled and able to move around in the lens. So assuming that we have a method or penetrating the lens such as with EV06, it's quite possible to improve the outcome, not to mention that regular administration of lanosterol in vivo could produce a different outcome on its own and lanosterol is nothing new to our eyes.

 

The choline ester on the Lipoic Acid is just DMAE (N,N- dimethylethanolamine) according to what Aconita posted. It differs only a little from Alpha GPC, which could be another option. Most of us should be somewhat familiar with this. I can't find any immediate sources on it, but from memory, it's used to help cosmetics penetrate the skin. Co-administration may be all that's needed, though I've also read studies on DMAE detailing how it creates holes in stem cell populations, though the stem cells appear to recover and it's generally considered anti-aging by cosmetics companies. I've also taken it orally from time to time for various purposes and noted that it caused mood swings when taken with chocolate. Most Alpha-GPC, even as bulk powder is half silicon dioxide. DMAE is generally attached to Tartaric Acid. Alpha GPC by itself is pretty sticky stuff hard to separate, but easier with heat... not sure about solubility in water. I saw an old jar of it recently, maybe I'll try some in warm water and get back to you on what happens.

 

How might silicon dioxide effect the eyes?

Edited by YOLF, 01 October 2020 - 01:10 AM.

[YOLF]

Any recent news from those that know?  As an aside, anyone have any supplement or stack recommendations with which they've had luck?  I swear my presbyopia fluctuates throughout every day.  So annoying.

 

Try burdock root tea? It creates more elastin... might help,,,
 

[YOLF]

I've been spraying diy msm and water with acetyl carnosine into my eyes without issues. I don't buy Into to the solution must be sterile or else showers and swims in random lakes would have blinded me by now. I keep it as clean as possible of course. I agree lecithin might not be a good idea.

 

Any improvement in whole field of vision when relaxed or not actively focusing from the MSM?

[hamishm00]

I've prepared a solution of NA-Carnosine eyedrops (life extension Brite Eyes brand) and Na-R-alpha lipoic acid. The Na-RALA dissolved well into the solution, making  an approx 1.5% solution after adding some water. The drops sting a little bit, but do not cause any negative reaction in the eye from what I can tell. 

 

I'll be switching to a PEG-400 based eye drop solution and using plain ALA powder, and might try some DMAE powder, although I'm not convinced it's necessary - the proof will be in the pudding.

 

 

[hamishm00]

My goal with Alpha Lipoic Acid eyedrops is to get back to a 20cms near point of vision. Currently just under 30cms. Will keep the group updated.

 

[kurt9]

What is the actual cause of presbyopia? Most medical literature usually says its due to the lens loosing its elasticity. However, I have found more technical papers saying that the cause is still undetermined and that it may be due to simply the lens becoming thicker over time (meaning that the lens continually grows throughout life, like certain other tissues in the body), thus overpowering the muscles that focus the lens on close objects.

[hamishm00]

One theory is (simply put): that the accumulation of protein disulfide bonds cause the lens to stiffen over time. That's what we're trying to achieve with ALA drops, to break or reduce the formation of those bonds.

 

These drops are working - near focus point has reduced from 31cm to 25cm in just over a week That's turning the clock back about 3 years - I believe a meaningful result will be when (if) it hits 20cm.

[floret]

Hamish where do you get the Na-R-alpha lipoic acid for these drops? I want to start on this too, asap. Before I lose the ability to do my job, which is highly dependent on near eyesight. It's already gotten difficult.

 

I can become a second person for this little study!

[Colorow]

I second that.  My partner and I can be third and forth :-)  He is just tilting into presbyopia, I have been there for much longer (female, older but better than 20/20 until 10 years ago).  For me the most irritating part of getting older...so far.  2 years of rapamycin btw have not improved my eyes although they could be worse I guess.  So, we are both ready to start such eyedrops and perfectly comfortable with formulating if I know how. 

[floret]

You're on Rapa too? Cool I have been for only a few months. Never started it expecting it to do anything for my eyes though. I found sources pretty quickly for these drops Hamish describes but wanted to match his drops as closely as possible.

[Colorow]

I am.  I rapamycin has near reversed arthritis in my hands and feet.  Other than that I haven't noticed effects from rapamycin but all I really notice anyway (with regards to aging) is my hands (started at 40 years old, now 57), my feet a little and my eyes.  I can deal with a little pain but the eyes....drives me crazy.  What sources did you find?  I can find the powder (above MedKoo) but not formulated drops. 

[floret]

NAC Drops N-Acetyl-Carnosine Antioxidant Anti-Aging Lubricant Eye Drops 10mL Supports Eye Health  <---from Amazon. It won't let me post links here.

 

You're able to buy from Medkoo??? I can't, it won't let me! I'm almost out of posts here for today, that's limited too, but I was trying to buy their product number 12288  How did you do it????? It keeps telling me "the change you wanted was rejected."

[Colorow]

Nope lol, didn't even try just saw that (apparently not so easy) I could buy the compound on Medkoo.  I have never purchased anything from them.  I am a veterinarian so I do use that card sometimes :-) but I was really looking to find out how Hamish made their product and where they purchased the active ingredient.  

[floret]

They're selling the original compound itself on Medkoo. I signed up and tried to buy it. It appeared to let me do it but then kept giving me an odd error. I emailed them about it, haven't heard back, hasn't been that long though.

[hamishm00]

The first batch I have done is quite rudimentary.

 

1. Purchase 2 x 10ml eyedropper glass vials from amazon - there are quite a few options here, but look for the pipette style with the rubber squeezers on the end to allow you to squeeze and release to bring liquid into the dropper.

2. Procure Life Extension "Brite Eyes" eyedrops - these drops also have N-acetyl-Carnosine in them. Iherb is the best source.

3. I used 100mg Na-R-ALA capsules from Doctor's Best (Iherb), but have bought some pure ALA powder, without fillers but have not used this yet - amazon sell the pure powder.

 

Open and empty the 100mg cap contents into the eyedropper. Empty the Brite Eyes liquid (each LEF dropper will be 5ml) into the eyedroppper - it will fill roughly half of the eyedropper (so it'll be 5ml). Allow to dissolve for a few hours, occasionally swirling. Once dissolved, there will be filler sediment on the bottom of the eyedropper from the capsules (the pure powder I have bought will not have this). Empty contents into the second eyedropper but avoid emptying the sediment from the first eyedropper. Add distilled water to bring the solution closer to 8 or 9ml.

 

Apply one drop to one eye. It will sting a bit for a few seconds, but there will be no redness or irritation to the eye. Apply to second eye. Then apply another drop to the first eye, and another to the second. Do this 3 times per day.

 

 

Edited by hamishm00, 02 November 2020 - 05:43 AM.