7 replies to this topic

[InTorment]

I've been on gabapentin for almost 10 years at high doses 3x a day. (almost 3000 mg daily). Things have been a complete disaster with it for a long time but cannot manage to get off it. My symptoms seem a lot more severe when trying to get off than most I've read online but it's a long story I guess.

 

I've been told that NAC can keep down glutamate levels so it would make it easier coming off it since the withdrawal can cause flooding with glutamate which also leads to excitotoxicity. I'm kind of dumb and don't really understand it much but isn't NAC a glutamate modulator? Would that mean it could increase glutamate?

 

I've felt that I've significantly damaged my brain for the years I've been on this (and have tried to get off even with small dose cuts) and I cannot function even a bit no matter how minor the drop. 

 

Would NAC actually help me with a taper to keep glutamate from damaging me more or even down the road when I'm off completely? If not, is there something that does?

 

I appreciate anyone's help and thank you for reading!

[PeaceAndProsperity]

NAC is terrible for keeping glutamate low. Creatine is much better and works almost instantly.

[AOLministrator]

NAC is about as neurochemically inert as Aspirin. Its said to be neuroprotective though.

 

Where did you get it form, that withdrawal will blow out glutamate receptors?

 

And why not just withdraw with some baclofen?

 

Edited by Aolministrator, 21 February 2017 - 06:50 PM.

[InTorment]

PeaceandProsperity: Never knew that about creatine but I also hear that it is really bad and can really mess you up. However, when the glutamate storm gets rough, I will probably have to take a chance with it. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Aolministrator: I believe since it works strong on blocking NMDA through voltage sensitive calcium channels that most of my issues when withdrawing is from a strong glutamate rebound. I've thought strongly about using baclofen to get off it. I would probably have to use a ton since my gabapentin levels are so high (test results say there's a lot more in my system than there should be)  Probably would have to be on it for a long time too and withdrawal from that is no joke I guess.

Have you heard success stories with it?

[PeaceAndProsperity]

it is really bad and can really mess you up

Are you serious!?

[AOLministrator]

Have you heard success stories with it?

 

No, but GABA-B protects against glutamate damage well, and baclofen withdrawal is usually reported to be harmless and easy. You have to take a shit ton of that stuff for month if not years to get the really awful hardcore symptoms. 1-2g a day, I don't know, would come somewhat close to what mere two Klonopin a day would do. Maybe even just one Klonopin equals 1500mg baclofen in terms of the torture of the withdrawal. I mean ok, in that respect at some point "fucked up" cannot escalate any more subjectively, but only by more seizures, brain damage or death. Getting off two Klonopin, or five Klonopin, who cares.

 

I think the only issue with baclofen withdrawal is, that you can think yourself psychotic with this stuff, without noticing while on it. When the blood levels shift back and forth by the hour, that's what can make you think strangely in weird ways. Then you get off it entirely, your mind can't handle the additional power for long and your thought processes run more and more rampant over the course of days to a week. Psychosis can happen with benzos in withdrawal too, but with baclofen its not just the withdrawal doing this to you. Its a technical detail, unlikely to ever encounter if you aren't a little insane by default.

 

Besides, just take 50mg or 100mg in the evening if you feel nasty. With just 200mg a day, you can ease your life a lot for a week or two, without having to worry about withdrawal.

 

Baclofen isn't particularly a drug of abuse, but its pretty good at creating a false sense of wellbeing. Even just in the 25mg range.

Edited by Aolministrator, 21 February 2017 - 10:42 PM.

[InTorment]

PeaceandProsperity: That's just what I heard from someone who took it when he was big into supplements when working out and a couple reports online. I actually don't know anything about it. This person was also naive to supplements and medications so was probably sensitive to any minor effect that happened.

 

Aolministrator: Considering after 3 months of never feeling better and just feeling worse over the time being off of gabapentin, I would probably have to be on the baclofen long term but I'm sure tapering over a long period wouldn't give me too much trouble hopefully. The short half-life is the only thing that might be a problem for me. I have heard about the ups and downs and not being easy to stabilize while on it but if that happens, maybe I'll just try to dose 4x a day. Have you heard of people getting off of gabapentin and pregabalin using baclofen?

[AOLministrator]

Quite frankly, I have never hear of considerable issues when discontinuing gabapentin. Surely nothing to really hit psychiatry for. 

 

I never took this drug, so I cannot judge better.

 

Why baclofen long-term? You are supposed to withdraw from a drug within a week and then just accept the lingering leftovers of tolerance as part of your life until they virtually disappear gradually within month.

 

If baclofen can be a replacement drug, I wouldn't know. Its a nice, short-acting thing that suppresses all sorts of negative aspects of life. High doses are very similar to high doses of GHB, totally mind-numbing. But by large its not the nasty kind of mind-numbing you get from benzos, if you ask me. At least not up to a certain dosage.

 

Downside with frequent use over a month or two in the upper range (maybe 200mg+ a day), is the psychotic thing I described and a general increase in anxiety. If you take e.g. 75mg for sleep in the evening each day, not much of anything will change, no matter how long you take it. I have heard of people on 2000mg tapering down within a week, without noticing anything noteworthy about the withdrawal, just like that. Baclofen isn't really considered habit forming nor addictive in most medical papers (although it clearly is). The hardcore symptoms listed on Wikipedia honestly root mainly from patients, who got it pumped directly into their spinal cords for years (intrathecal baclofen pump, makes the stuff a zillion times more powerful). I wouldn't take an easy, smooth withdrawal for granted though. There are also sparse reports from people who were some few month on 100mg a day, going full blown psychotic within 10 days of withdrawal. Like said, the drug definitively has mechanics, that could possibly "implant" whatever roots for a psychosis, to emerge after discontinuation. But if you just chill and have normal thoughts, not the nutty kind, then don't worry. After all, psychosis is just a matter of profoundly disturbed thoughts - not of taking drugs.

Edited by Aolministrator, 22 February 2017 - 04:37 AM.