25 replies to this topic

[Quaker32]

Dear All,

 

I am not sure if I am posting this in the correct thread or section, so forgive me if I am wrong please.

 

I do not want to take ibogaine in full-flood or even micro-dose because I am currently suffering from depersonalisation-derealisation disorder. any hallucinogenic activity will probably send me to my death. As well as that, NMDA antagonism and the kappa receptor are implicated in dpd.

 

I have seen some research concerning 18-MC, and I would desperately like to try this for my severe sex/porn addiction. I did take about 0.5g ibogaine total alkaloid a few months ago and it did help, but in the state I was in, not enough.

 

I believe I will need other medications down the line (I am currently taking pregabalin) but a dose or 2 of this stuff would be fantastic. 18-MC was the product of "rational drug design" and I believe that it has no hallucinogenic activity.

 

 

 

thanks for any input.

Q32

[Mind_Paralysis]

Hmm... but wouldn't the later, related Ibogain-semi-analogues be a better deal for you? Especially since they are even MORE selective α₃β₄ nAch-antagonists?

 

Of the analogues known, the one I would pick is 18-MAC - it has the least affinity for the Kappa-receptor, you see - so, in theory, it shouldn't mess with your DP/DR.

 

Have a look:

 

https://en.wikipedia...inocoronaridine

[Quaker32]

What are the later analogues? I'm not sure that I am aware of that.

 

The problem is how the hell do I obtain them.

 

I have contacted one ibogaine vendor, and she sells Ibogaine HCL. She said it is possible to "micro dose" it (say 50mg) which will not produce hallucinogenic effects. The issue though, is that it still has affinity for the same receptors implicated in dp-dr disorder. So bloody annoying - else I would do that.

 

I think as well that I desperately need psychological therapy and any hallucinations or deep analytical probing is not suitable right now.Two years ago would have been fine - but it's been an extremely bad time and I may have some variant of PTSD. 

[Finn]

Ibogaine might have contributed to your mild psychosis or depersonalization, the events you described at your thread I think I am going insane and I have never heard other cases of this

 

http://www.longecity...-cases-of-this/

 

 

 

Anyway, while ago while I was googling of lithium for other reasons, I ran into a case report of person who was masturbating 25–30 times per day, which must have been quite painful, who got his masturbation issues under control with lithium

 

Use of Lithium for Sexual Obsessions in Asperger’s Disorder

 

 

http://neuro.psychia...opsych.11090232

 

 

To the Editor: Obsessional/repetitive behaviors are a core feature of autistic-spectrum disorders. Symptoms suggesting a DSM-IV diagnosis of obsessive compulsive disorder have been reported in 37% of the children with autism.¹ Sexual obsessions have been commonly reported in these patients.²

 

We report on a 17-year-old young man with a diagnosis of Asperger’s disorder who complained of having intrusive sexual thoughts and urges. He was masturbating 25–30 times per day, resulting in penile ulcers. These symptoms were associated with severe anxiety and frustration, leading to suicidal thoughts and self-injurious behavior, including stabbing his penis with tweezers. The patient denied any concomitant mood or psychotic symptoms. He denied any substance use, and his urine toxicology screen was negative. The patient was currently on sertraline 200 mg, clomipramine 225 mg, and aripiprazole 10 mg daily. He has had previous failed trials on citalopram, fluvoxamine, fluoxetine, clonazepam, quetiapine, and risperidone.

 

Low serotonin levels have been associated with impulsive and aggressive behaviors,³ and enhancement of central serotonin neurotransmission could ameliorate heightened sexual desire and compulsivity associated with such sexual behaviors.⁴ Lithium has been shown to have some efficacy in similar behaviors associated with obsessive-compulsive features, such as pathological gambling.⁵Hence, a trial of lithium was considered in this patient, and the dose was titrated up to 600 mg twice daily, with a lithium level of 0.56 mEq/L. The patient showed significant improvement in his sexual obsessions. He has not had a relapse in his obsessive symptoms and participates in cognitive-behavioral therapy to help with sustained remission.

 

Lithium is known to increase serotonin levels in the cerebrospinal fluid by inducing serotonin synthesis.⁶ The particular pro-serotonergic action of lithium could be helpful in reducing the heightened sexual obsession and compulsive behavior. Further double-blind, placebo-controlled studies are needed to confirm the role of lithium as an augmentation agent for treatment of obsessive sexual behaviors.

 

 

Edited by Finn, 09 March 2017 - 03:26 PM.

[Quaker32]

I think it might have done. But what makes you think that?

[Finn]

Some people have experienced those kind of issues  from ibogaine

 

Some threads of ibogaine causing depersonalization or making depersonalization worse

 

http://www.longecity...nbrain-changes/

 

http://www.longecity...tment-recovery/

 

 

http://www.dpselfhel...ation-ibogaine/

 

 

 

When I returned home from Mexico I was almost psychotic.

---

I feel that the ibogaine infinitely worsened my anxiety, panic, and depersonalization.

 

 

 

Edited by Finn, 09 March 2017 - 03:36 PM.

[Quaker32]

I'm going to go back to posting in my original thread - this needs more attention and help if possible. thanks finn.

[Quaker32]

The question now, is where can I obtain the ibogaine analogues from? Can anybody help me with that? 

 

I think it is just far too risky to even try taking ibogaine in this state - HCL form included. 

[Mind_Paralysis]

The question now, is where can I obtain the ibogaine analogues from? Can anybody help me with that? 

 

I think it is just far too risky to even try taking ibogaine in this state - HCL form included. 

 

Your solution, is to organize a GROUP BUY! = ) And then synthesize it yourself, so as to try it out.

 

But really though - Paroxetine works, does it not? Why not just take Paroxetine again? And seeing as you are suffering from DP/DR, then you would need something to treat that as well - and it so happens to be that SSRI's have been shown to have some effect, at lest.

 

SO... Paroxetine?

[Quaker32]

Paroxetine made my DR worse by baking everything super bright and also completely killed my erections. It was a lititle worrying. My penis felt like dead tissue.

 

It did help but I think the best thing would be something to modulate dopamine in the reward pathway. I believe that was behind the compullsivity and escalating novelty required for my addiction. 

 

Anyway, every medication that I take right now is making me feel worse emotionally. I think my theory could be right, that there is too much trauma in my mind and that once I have dealt with it in therapy, medications will be more tolerable. My brain will be in a less sensitive state. I hope.

[Quaker32]

Synthesize it myself? Dude, I don't have an advanced degree in organic chemistry, nor do i have a full-scale lab in my house!

[Quaker32]

Bupropion has a3b4 antagonistic effects, like 18-MC, although experiemtns showed that alone, bupropion was did not alter morphine adminsteration compared to a combination of 18-MC and bupropion.

 

I suppose it is one possibility though. It could also help with my blank mind (SSRI drugs do not agree with me at all). I think anything with NMDA-antagonism is to be completely avoided as well because of DPDR.

 

Now I CAN't WAIT to see the sex addiction specialists. 

[Finn]

Paroxetine made my DR worse by baking everything super bright and also completely killed my erections. 

 

 

Brightness caused by paroxetine might not be a derealization symptom, paroxetine and many other antidepressants can make your pupils more dilated, extra brightness caused by extra pupil dilation is not derealization symptom, more dilated pupils let more light in so there is clear physiological cause for increased brightness.

 

https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Mydriasis

Edited by Finn, 11 March 2017 - 03:31 PM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

Synthesize it myself? Dude, I don't have an advanced degree in organic chemistry, nor do i have a full-scale lab in my house!

 

No, no... I was a bit unclear in my last post, but this is what I meant:

 

You recruit other people who would be interested in trying 18-mAc, you then agree to split all of the costs - you then contact a laboratory in China, show them the molecular structure, and what info there is on the synthesis of the drug, and ask them if they can synthesize it FOR you! = )

 

The chinese lab then synthesize a great amount of 18-mAc, which is then sent to you, and you then send equal samples of the drug to all of the people you recruited for the splitting of the costs.

 

This is what is known as a group buy here on Longecity - former group buys include both NSI-189 and Dihexa.

[Quaker32]

Does anybody know, or can anybody formulate an educated guess, as to which component of ibogaine's pharmacology was responsbile for the DP/DR/mild psychosis?

 

I mean after all, if I am going to spend alot of money on obtaining 18-MC or 18-MAC or whatever, then such a situation absolutely cannot happen again. Could it be due to the NMDA antagonism of ibogaine? Or the kappa agonism? 

 

Many, ,any thanks if anybody can help with this one!!

[Mind_Paralysis]

Does anybody know, or can anybody formulate an educated guess, as to which component of ibogaine's pharmacology was responsbile for the DP/DR/mild psychosis?

 

I mean after all, if I am going to spend alot of money on obtaining 18-MC or 18-MAC or whatever, then such a situation absolutely cannot happen again. Could it be due to the NMDA antagonism of ibogaine? Or the kappa agonism? 

 

Many, ,any thanks if anybody can help with this one!!

 

It's probably the combination of both, at the same time, since both mechanisms are involved in developing DP/DR.

18-MAC should be more selective than 18-MC, and have minimal amounts of such effects.

[Quaker32]

18-MC apparently has no effect on NMDA receptors but has some affinity at mu and kappa receptors. 

 

18-MAC seems like it is more sensitive, but I don't know if any human trials of it have been done and whether it has been safely ingested in humans.

 

On top of that, wikipedia says that 18-MC has some affinity for sodium channels, but I'm not sure about 18-MAC. One person reported getting awful DP/DR from ibogaine which they put down to the effect on the sodium and ion channels in the brain. This might have been what triggered it off. 

 

Hmm. Hard to make a decision on this one, definite pros and cons on either side. 

[Mind_Paralysis]

18-MC apparently has no effect on NMDA receptors but has some affinity at mu and kappa receptors. 

 

18-MAC seems like it is more sensitive, but I don't know if any human trials of it have been done and whether it has been safely ingested in humans.

 

On top of that, wikipedia says that 18-MC has some affinity for sodium channels, but I'm not sure about 18-MAC. One person reported getting awful DP/DR from ibogaine which they put down to the effect on the sodium and ion channels in the brain. This might have been what triggered it off. 

 

Hmm. Hard to make a decision on this one, definite pros and cons on either side. 

 

May I suggest an alternative?

 

There is a new medication available for the treatment of obesity, and hence, over-eating behaviour such as binge-eating - it's called MySimba - it's a combination of Bupropion and Naltrexone.

 

Why not just try and obtain that, and see if it helps? I know it may seem counter-intuitive, what with the pro-sexual effects of Bupropion (reports of hypersexuality and its reported effectiveness in treating PSSD), but Bupe does have that nicotinic antagonism, and Naltrexone is bound to alter the effects significantly.

 

Otherwise, another alternative, is to combine PAROXETINE and Naltrexone! : D Simply dose very low-dose Paroxetine, to the point where you don't feel any numbness in the genitalia or such - just a little bit of an effect - THEN... you stack it with Naltrexone! = ) Perhaps the combo could be synergistic, towards sex-addiction, in a similar way to how Bupe-Nalt is synergistic against over-eating?

 

That, or try and obtain a D3-seletive antagonist and then pare it in low dose with Naltrexone - D3-agonism is the mechanism which causes hypersexuality from dopamine-agonists, so a D3-antagonist should be able to decrease sexual behaviour.

 

Nafadotride is one such compound:
 

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Nafadotride

 

Another, is... HALOPERIDOL!

 

Now, usually I would join the choir in saying Haloperidol is a piece of sh*t - however, if dosed to such a low degree that it only causes slight D3-antagonism, which would be the first effect noticed, since it binds stronger to D3 than any other receptor, then, when combined with Naltrexone, it MAY JUST modulate your reward-pathways in the right direction! : )

 

https://en.wikipedia...ol#Pharmacology

[Quaker32]

fire away at any alternatives! 

 

What about a D2/D3 blocker like amisulpride combined with naltrexone? My doctor spoke about potentially using amisulpride...

 

I like the idea of naltrexone, but it keeps making me feel WEIRD when I tried it. This is what I was trying to say either in this thread or another, that because I have such severe Dp/DR, my brain feels so sensitive to everything. Even the Pregabalin that I am taking now is not working and in fact seems to be making me feel more depersonalised. I don't know what the solution is to that - perhaps some kind of talking therapy? Very frustrating situation to be in - I just feel kind of horrible all over. 

[Mind_Paralysis]

fire away at any alternatives! 

 

What about a D2/D3 blocker like amisulpride combined with naltrexone? My doctor spoke about potentially using amisulpride...

 

I like the idea of naltrexone, but it keeps making me feel WEIRD when I tried it. This is what I was trying to say either in this thread or another, that because I have such severe Dp/DR, my brain feels so sensitive to everything. Even the Pregabalin that I am taking now is not working and in fact seems to be making me feel more depersonalised. I don't know what the solution is to that - perhaps some kind of talking therapy? Very frustrating situation to be in - I just feel kind of horrible all over. 

 

You've never tried it with a selective D3-antagonist! ; ) Perhaps you could also lower your dose, in such a situation, yes? Less Naltrexone should cause less odd feelings. (less efficacy too, BUT...! when combined with a D3-antagonist, perhaps not, as you could get a modulating total effect then - for instance, combining several sedating substances in tandem, even when used at low dosages, causes an overall MORE sedated feeling! : )

(low-dose antihistamines are definitively synergistic when combined with gabaergics and melatonergics, for instance)

 

I wouldn't use Amisulpride though, because at lower dosages, it actually mainly affects D2 D3 as auto-receptors, meaning that it actually increases dopaminergic activity then - only at higher dosages can lower dopaminergic activity be seen.

 

It's also NOT selective towards D3! The D2-antagonism is pretty much equal.

 

Haloperidol however, is selective towards D3 at low doses.

 

This is however, from my perspective of solely focusing on your sex-addiction issues - I have not, in any way, taken into account your issues with DP/DR in my assessment - your Dr. however, no doubt has. (in fact, I think that's his SOLE perspective on your issues)

 

 

As previously noted, glutamate-modulation from Lamotrigine is what I believe to be useful for DP/DR. It should be possible to combine Lamotrigine with LDN and LD-Haloperidol without greater issues.

 

It should also be possible to stack Haloperidol and Lamotrigine with CERC-501 (kappa-antagonist) - at least when it comes to modes of effect.

 

 

Hmm... upon closer consideration, perhaps you should focus on getting better from DP/DR FIRST, and simply forget about this whole hypersexuality-business until you're cured of DP/DR, before tackling hypersexuality?

 

I'm mainly saying this because I understand where your Dr. might be coming from - DP/DR is so hard to treat, that really, you can't let all of these anti-hyper-sex-drugs come in the way of treating it - it's just sooo much easier when you can just UNLOAD on DP/DR, and absolutely pummel it wildly, without having to bother with your sexuality - it really does make everything hell'a much harder!

[Quaker32]

I hear you man, I hear you.

 

Could amisulpride's D2 antagonism have some positive effect, because of D2 receptors in the dopamine reward pathway? I am just curious on this one.

 

Also, do you have an action plan or any idea on how to effectively treat the Dp/Dr? I am on Pregabalin at the moment - the rationale being to lower anxiety. My Dr was saying that DP was caused by anxiety and depression. He also said that it has mood-stabilising effects, and he uses it off-label for that purpose. 

 

He doesn't know about the ibogaine! I have a new Dr in a few weeks, because this guy has left, and I will tell him then. thanks for these posts dude.

[Quaker32]

Also, I could say, in response to your initial post outlining an alternative plan, that part of my desire for such a compound is to fully "clean" out those nasty pathways. I know scientifically, what I wrote is probably a load of s***, but I hope that I am conveying what I mean to say as well as I can. 

[Quaker32]

Also, I forgot to add, that the doctor said his rationale for amisulpride was also to raise prolactin levels to bring libido down. Just thought I should mention that. 

[Quaker32]

Does anybody know any natural anti-craving drugs? Any natural a3b4 antagonists? Worth asking, you never know eh. 

[Mind_Paralysis]

Does anybody know any natural anti-craving drugs? Any natural a3b4 antagonists? Worth asking, you never know eh. 

 

I do believe there is! In South America, there are some drugs which is used in traditional medicine for this purpose, unless I am mistaken?

 

This is most likely a question which our friend GAMESGURU can answer! = ) He's our resident expert on phytochemistry.
 

[Quaker32]

I am going to immediately try turmeric in order to try CURCUMIN. 

 

My first step will be to get raw turmeric and make a pickle with that, and just add that to my food. Also, I have turmeric powder already.

 

I will see how that goes and then think about buying a curcumin supplement. One problem is the very poor bioavailability of it, so not sure how to deal with that. Short of making nano particles of curcumin (it has been done in the morphine study), are there natural ways of getting around this problem?