18 replies to this topic

[progimusti]

I unfortunately posted this in the product/vendor forum, but I'll post it here again as this seems to be the relevant forum: 

 

I've been taking NR/Niagen since the beginning of August 2016. It changed my life in terms of energy levels and stamina. I feel like I'm 18 again (42 years old).  I'm not even exaggerating. I did notice a decrease in erections a few months into it (I didn't have sex until a few months into it) where I had a hard time keeping it hard in a condom and also hard when "out" for even short amounts of time (change positions etc.) and attempts to get it back in required herculean effort or failed. But somehow it still worked even at reduced hardness and I still had a sex drive...although reduced. That was when I was taking 250mg of NR a day. About a month ago I started taking 500mg of NR. In the last two weeks I had two sexual encounters and both times I could not even get an erection much less have sex. I also notice that I don't even have a sex drive...it's gone. The only change I made was to take double the amount of NR. 

 

Here's my question..since research into NR is sparse and also user experiences are relatively sparse, did you notice anything similar? I found one post here from 2014 that reported ED issues...but that seems to be about it. If ED and lack of or low libido is a common side effect of NR, then it's going to be a hard sell commercially. Anyone?

And this is my reply to someone with more information: 

 

The most recent episode (after increasing to 500mg) is with the same partner.  It's even hard to masturbate at this point, nor do I have the desire. This has NEVER happened to me before. I do take my normal vitamins, but not in crazy amounts (just what it says on the bottle) and I have been taking those for over a decade. So no changes there.  As for the amazon reviewer...he says: "I think" behind increased libido. I do remember at the very beginning thinking that I was hornier, too, but that may be either real or placebo in the beginning due to the increased energy levels. 

 

What I did find out in my research is that Niacin is used in place of cholesterol lowering drugs (statins) for a similar cholesterol lowering effect. If you don't have high cholesterol (and I don't..i'm normal weight, active, fit, healthy with no known problems) than Niacin (and Statins) may lower your cholesterol too much. Niacin and NR are both "Vitamin B3"..i.e. very, very similar. I found at least one source that described NR as cholesterol lowering and I *think* I read on here that some people with high cholesterol reported their values improving...i.e. going down. 

 

Why is cholesterol important to this topic? Well, cholesterol and testosterone are structurally very similar and cholesterol is needed by the body to synthesize testosterone. I'm deducting/speculating that if there isn't enough cholesterol to go around that testosterone production will be insufficient. That would explain the lower levels of libido/erection in the beginning and the total loss of libido/erections after increasing my NR intake to 500mg/day. 

 

Starting today I am going to stop taking NR and see if I notice any improvements in the next days and weeks. 

 

[progimusti]

Hmmm....now I'm wondering if the possible ED effects of NR just don't get noticed in the typical population that takes NR (middle aged to older men) because ED is already prevalent in that age group! So even if someone didn't have ED/low libido but develops it after taking NR they would just attribute it to "getting older" and consider it "normal." And of course if someone already had ED due to other reasons they wouldn't notice any possible ED from NR either. 

 

So, I guess what I am trying to do is get people to think about when they started taking NR and if that possibly coincided (possibly with a few months delay) with lower quality erections or simply lower libido. So basically I am asking about the onset of ED anytime after starting the NR regimen. I'm especially interested in high dosage NR users, but any user's input is welcome. 

 

I understand that ED/low libido is a touchy subject that people don't like to talk about, but we're all anonymous in this forum after all and I'm pretty sure nobody is going to make fun of anyone. 

[BigLabRat]

I haven't noticed anything of the sort at a daily dose of 500 mg. And I'm 63 (in fact, today's my birthday). Still have sex. Still wake up hard most mornings.

 

But if anything seems to be idiosyncratic, it's ED. So Niagen might make a difference to you. I'd try stopping and seeing if things change.

 

I might add that I eat a lot of eggs, so I consume a lot of cholesterol. If you really think that might be a factor here, try upping you cholesterol intake!

[soulprogrammer]

progimusti, any update of your libido experience with and without NR? curious to know your latest results.

[progimusti]

Thanks for the input BigLabRat, and happy birthday! I eat 2 eggs in the morning and sometimes another one in the evening. Plus I have two meals with either Chicken or Turkey in between, sometimes a snack of canned salmon or tuna (also evenings), and usually red meat on weekends. So I do eat plenty of cholesterol.  Also...you've *never* had ED? That's pretty amazing at your age from what I have been reading! How long have you been taking Niagen? Did you immediately start out with 500mg? 

 

@soulprogrammer

 

I had stopped taking Niagen around the time I started this thread. Before I go into further details I should add that I didn't even have the desire to masturbate after starting the 500mg NR regimen. So for 3-4 weeks I simply didn't masturbate (usually have been doing it at least once or twice a week for decades). Then when I noticed that I wasn't able to have sex I tried masturbating and *couldn't*...it simply wasn't getting sufficiently hard. I have NEVER had this problem before. In any case, I am happy to report that starting last week I noticed improvement (after a few days already) with fuller and stronger morning erections. Also masturbated successfully last week Wednesday, then again Sunday and *twice* Wednesday/Thursday. My desire is definitely back and so is my ability to have erections. I haven't tried sex yet and don't know when an opportunity will arise yet (no steady partner), but I'll report back on that. 

I should add a few confounding factors just because I am scientifically minded. About the same time as I increased my dosage of Niagen to 500mg I also started taking 20mg of Loratadine (double the normal dose for the US) to help with my allergic rhinitis which was badly acting up. While researching ED when these problems started I of course found out that many antihistamines are known to cause ED. It turns out that histamines play a vital role in causing erections (after the stimulation of the brain part) by possibly being responsible for the expansion of the "corpus cavernosa", which are the two cylinder shaped spongy tissue parts of the penis that fill with blood. Plus...antihistamines making people drowsy (even the "non-drowsy" ones) may also start affecting the brain signals that set erections in motion. Needless to say I stopped taking the antihistamines along with the Niagen/NR. 

 

So...I may have experienced a "double whammy" of issues here. The Niagen *may* have decreased my testosterone levels (again..didn't measure, just speculating here) which led to lower desire and also less firm erections, and the antihistamine messed with the mechanics of a normal erection by blocking the histamines.  Since the "softness" of erections and problems keeping it hard when not inserted in the the Vagina started after starting my 250mg Niagen regimen I can't entirely make the antihistamines responsible for the total loss of function that happened (and the loss of desire). But...after increasing my Niagen intake to 500mg and also taking double doses of Loratadine the total loss happened...and by total loss I don't mean: "I had desire but couldn't perform"...but more like: "I lost both desire and performance." 

None of this is truly scientific of course...because to really see what may be the actual culprit I should have just stopped Niagen and not the antihistamines or vice versa to see if there are any changes. I also shouldn't have stopped taking all the other supplements out of fear that they are also adversely affecting me (unlikely though because I have been taking those for years...some of them for decades). I also shouldn't have bought the "testosterone booster" from Costco I've been taking for a week...which may or may not be helping with the desire and ability to get full erections again. 

Edited by progimusti, 17 March 2017 - 05:39 PM.

[BigLabRat]

A couple of years ago I developed Peyronie's disease, so my problem is pain. Hardness per se hasn't been an issue, nor desire.

 

I generally avoid antihistamines, as I'm supersensitive to them. Most of them make me absurdly sleepy, and that effects lasts up to 2 days. (The non-drowsy kind make me jittery and sleepless).

 

I've never noticed if antihistimines affect my sexual function, because I wouldn't be awake to tell. But I can easily believe they might.

 

I started Niagen about a year ago at 250, quickly moved up to 500. Took a break of a few months.

 

The only major effect I noticed when I started was a lot more energy, but that effect faded. A minor effect was the clearing of some skin problems.

 

---------------

 

I have a suspicion that Niagen does very different things to different people. NAD+ is such a widespread molecule...

[soulprogrammer]

Progimusti, so we can assume you have recover your normal level of libido. Could you do us a favour now by taking 500mg NR only and see adding NR alone make you totally lost your desire and performance. Doing that we definitely more scientifically make a more clear indication whether NR does or does not indeed cause ED in your case.

 

 

BigLabRat, "The only major effect I noticed when I started was a lot more energy, but that effect faded. "

 

I believed it is the effect is not faded just that you get used to it and taken it as granted. Have you ever measure your "more energy"? Perhaps best way to measure is joggin and measure your heartbeat and distance you jog each week (using whatever smartphone app, fitbit, etc). Then perhap you will quantitatively see the effect indeed fade off or still the same. It could be a new level of norm for you.

Edited by soulprogrammer, 18 March 2017 - 02:58 AM.

[soulprogrammer]

this one I got it from another blog user comments:

 

I'm 63 and I've been taking NR for about 3 months now. I was suffering from ED before, but everything has come back roaring. Now I'm laying three or four birds a week, sometimes two at a time. For me, NR has been nothing short of amazing.

Posted by: Alan Donahue at May 1st, 2016 4:52 PM

[progimusti]

Thanks for the additional info, BigLabRat! 

 

@soulprogrammer

For now i'm going to have to pass on the self-experiment for a while. Not really interested in researching the full loss of sexual function especially since my new partner wouldn't be very happy about it.    But I do plan on taking NR again in the future. I'll start out with 125mg (originally started out with the "normal" 250mg) and then see if there are any changes in sexual function. Then I'll go to 250mg, and then eventually to 500mg. Just not now. I'll do it in a few months when i'm not as disturbed psychologically about what happened recently and have "proven" to myself that everything is really totally ok. 

 

As for the link you posted...I *thought* I was hornier the first few months too. That may just come with the sudden increase in energy and may wear off over time. Plus...the guy sounds like a Viagra commercial.   Where the hell does he find that many women per week, every week? Sometimes two at a time? Does he pay them? That's a lot of money....

 

Those unlikely claims make me very cautious about his claims. Like I said...the other confounding factor were the antihistamines...so that's another experiment to possibly try to see if it was the major culprit for my sudden total ED. 

Edited by progimusti, 23 March 2017 - 06:21 PM.

[progimusti]

Ok...I broke down today and took 125mg of NR with 100mg of Pterostilbene (which I had also stopped because I was freaking out). I guess it takes over two weeks for the effects of the increased NAD+ levels to slowly wear off. I was noticing this week how I was getting more tired again and had trouble getting out of bed (like I used to before starting NR), and yesterday and today I noticed how I wasn't really recovering from a heavy workout on Tuesday. 

 

So...I stopped after taking 500mg and possibly seeing some issues...before that I was taking 250mg since I started NR in August last year. Now 125mg. My reasoning is that being one of the younger people in this forum (again...42) I probably don't have as much of an NAD+ deficiency as others, so I probably don't need the high doses (and honesty I didn't *feel* any improvement doubling the dosage from 250mg to 500mg. And at 125mg today I'm feeling about the same as I did with 250mg). I'm one of those people who actually immediately feels the effects of the NR...so i'm already feeling awake and energetic as we speak. that low dosage *hopefully* won't lower my cholesterol levels too much as to cause more issues with ED. We'll see how things go. 

 

 

[soulprogrammer]

@progimusti

 

How is ur NR experience with libido issue? Any update? FYI, I have been taking NR more than 3 weeks already, but no issue in libido. It doesn't increase or decrease my libido. Well, I do feel a bit increase but that is probably due to increase in energy and stamina. So, could you update us about your most recent experience?

[joelcairo]

It's hard to support this with citations, but it seems like this sort of thing varies a lot from person to person. There are a lot of moving pieces when it comes to male sexual performance - hormone levels, anxiety and stress, NO release, blood flow, phosphodiesterase 5, and so on. For example, some have reported problems when taking curcumin, whereas I have never noticed anything. OTOH I did experience a lack of sex drive for a short while after I started taking iodine daily. Whether it was a coincidence or not I can't say, but sex is more important to me than iodine so I simply stopped taking it.

[Nate-2004]

I've not really noticed a thing before or after taking NR. I have had some ED off and on for years and I only started NR just under 2 years ago. I never know if it's just age, anxiety, libido, desensitization to sexuality over time or what the situation is.  

 

Despite all my anti-aging efforts over the past couple of years it's not resulted in the high libido or super strong erections that I was getting in my teens and 20's.

 

What could some of the upstream root causes of ED with aging be?

[Rocket]

I've not really noticed a thing before or after taking NR. I have had some ED off and on for years and I only started NR just under 2 years ago. I never know if it's just age, anxiety, libido, desensitization to sexuality over time or what the situation is.

Despite all my anti-aging efforts over the past couple of years it's not resulted in the high libido or super strong erections that I was getting in my teens and 20's.

What could some of the upstream root causes of ED with aging be?

Get with a private lab and have your testosterone, estrogen, and prolactin measured. If those are ok then you can look to neurotransmitters and "boosting" dopamine.

The anti-aging efforts we typically discuss here don't do anything for our hormones and neurotransmitters... Sex and arousal is between the ears in the gray matter... Not in telomeres and mitochondria.

The loss of sexuality with age is probably both hormones and neurotransmitters.

That's why testosterone therapy will restore desire for sex but men will still need pde5 drugs for the arousal aspect... Because T doesn't address neurotransmitters.

Edited by Rocket, 28 December 2017 - 02:56 AM.

[Nate-2004]

My testosterone is normal as of last year's test. Not sure about the other two. I tend to agree, looking into trying to boost tyrosine hydroxylase as a means of boosting dopamine.

[Rocket]

My testosterone is normal as of last year's test. Not sure about the other two. I tend to agree, looking into trying to boost tyrosine hydroxylase as a means of boosting dopamine.

 

Pramipexole is very good. BB'ers use it for prolactin lowering prolactin and it is a dopamine agonist. I use it nightly in low doses. Lisuride is supposed to be a good D agonist and 9-MBC from reviews I've read.

[Nate-2004]

From what I understand prolactin is also good thing as it is also involved in myelination. Sauna use tends to dramatically increase prolactin and I've been using the sauna a lot for a wide variety of reasons, heat shock proteins, insulin sensitivity, growth hormone and BDNF being the primary.  I don't know if prolactin should be my focus. Too low prolactin can also cause the same problems of low testosterone and erectile dysfunction.

 

References: https://www.ncbi.nlm...cles/PMC4515538

 

Prolactin is inhibited by dopamine anyway, the better option would be to raise dopamine levels. This article is a good reference for how to do that I think.

 

I will look into Lisuride first. Thanks.

Edited by Nate-2004, 28 December 2017 - 04:56 PM.

[recon]

A 20-30 year old range here. Taking NR 125 mg morning and night for 5 days and pausing for 2 days per week. Takes one more if alcohol is to be consumed.

Nope, no ED or loss in libido here.

[Rocket]

From what I understand prolactin is also good thing as it is also involved in myelination. Sauna use tends to dramatically increase prolactin and I've been using the sauna a lot for a wide variety of reasons, heat shock proteins, insulin sensitivity, growth hormone and BDNF being the primary.  I don't know if prolactin should be my focus. Too low prolactin can also cause the same problems of low testosterone and erectile dysfunction.

 

References: https://www.ncbi.nlm...cles/PMC4515538

 

Prolactin is inhibited by dopamine anyway, the better option would be to raise dopamine levels. This article is a good reference for how to do that I think.

 

I will look into Lisuride first. Thanks.

 

I have lisuride on the way for my own reasons. I'll let you know how it goes.