326 replies to this topic

[dalack]

The article posted in Science says NMN is not available yet but could be in three years. Is this a different makeup of what is already 

available on the market claiming to be NAD+?

 

http://www.perthnow....13d8670a8bb9d11

 

Sorry for my ignorance

David

[MikeDC]

NMN is not NAD+. NMN is available and costs thousands of dollars. Nicotinamide Riboside (Niagen) is probably a better NAD+ precursor than NMN and it is available and cheap.

[dalack]

Thanks for the reply. Do you have a recommendation on a good brand of Nicotinamide Riboside?

[natasjlp]

if you google NMN you will find a number of links that actually point to NR products, including Amazon.

 

Nicotinamide Riboside NAD+ Amplifier

https://www.amazon.c...NPQZ6DM4NB4BGEG

 

Life Extension Nad+ Cell Regenerator Nicotinamide Riboside

https://www.amazon.c...ywords=nmn&th=1

 

There also appears to be actual NMN available now from a company from Japan. Expensive IMO:

 

NMN β-Nicotinamide Mononucleotide 1500 Pure

https://www.amazon.c...15&keywords=nmn

 

I will search through some of my connections to see if we can source some more affordable NMN and report back.

 

[natasjlp]

Found this at RevGenetics (not bad considering other suppliers pricing):

 

 

Advanced NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide 50 Mg Per Serving - 30 Servings - 60 Capsules Price: $37.95

https://www.revgenet...nucleotide.aspx

 

[MikeDC]

Found this at RevGenetics (not bad considering other suppliers pricing):

Advanced NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide 50 Mg Per Serving - 30 Servings - 60 Capsules Price: $37.95
https://www.revgenet...nucleotide.aspx

It is most likely junk.

[Heisok]

It is put together by a long term Longecity member. Please back up your statement.

 

That I know of, the contents or their products have been shown to be what they claim they are .  They show COA's.

 

natasjlp, If I were looking at NMN, I would try the product which you show.

 

 

 

Found this at RevGenetics (not bad considering other suppliers pricing):

Advanced NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide 50 Mg Per Serving - 30 Servings - 60 Capsules Price: $37.95
https://www.revgenet...nucleotide.aspx

It is most likely junk.

 

 

 

COA http://www.longecity...attach_id=14587

Edited by Heisok, 25 April 2017 - 04:48 PM.

[dalack]

So the NMN that Sinclair is testing is not the same NMN that you can purchase as a supplement on Amazon ?

If its a different chemical how is it different than the supplement form?

 

[MikeDC]

So the NMN that Sinclair is testing is not the same NMN that you can purchase as a supplement on Amazon ?
If its a different chemical how is it different than the supplement form?

Theoretically the same. But we don't know how repliable the Amazon NMN vendor is.

[dalack]

I did find this source that is charging insane prices for supposedly pure NMN . 

One of the reviews of this product states the following though. 

 

Since NMN has to be converted in the body to NR (nicotinamide riboside) before it can pass through cellular walls, just buy NR. NR has been proven to raise NAD levels. NR is also much less expensive.

 

https://www.amazon.c... Mononucleotide

 

 

 

[dalack]

Its weird that Sinclair talks about 3-5 years for it to be available to market yet its obviously available already. Is he catering to morons that don't know how to use google?

[MikeDC]

Sinclair might be using Niagen also. He just doesn't want to endorse it.

Its weird that Sinclair talks about 3-5 years for it to be available to market yet its obviously available already. Is he catering to morons that don't know how to use google?

Sinclair might be using Niagen also. But he won't admit it since he is interested in making money from NMN.

[ryukenden]

Come across with this seller. Are they reliable? Seem quite cheap.

http://www.revgeneti...CFYkp0wodX7oC4g

Edited by ryukenden, 15 June 2017 - 01:02 AM.

[ryukenden]

http://www.longecity...attach_id=14587

Does the above mean Revgenetics NMN is genuine?

[Heisok]

yes. It also shows that the dose of 2 capsules which is reported as 50 Mg NMN is accurate. Good luck.

[stefan_001]

http://www.longecity...attach_id=14587

Does the above mean Revgenetics NMN is genuine?

 

It would be interesting to know how the synt is done. My guess it uses NR as building block. This could be a method to hide that a company breaks the Chromadex patents.
 

[bluemoon]

yes. It also shows that the dose of 2 capsules which is reported as 50 Mg NMN is accurate. Good luck.

 

i'm curious who would pay almost 3 times more for Revgenetics' NMN than NR since the person would almost have to know about NR and the commonly held belief that one is not more effective than the other.  

[able]

 

yes. It also shows that the dose of 2 capsules which is reported as 50 Mg NMN is accurate. Good luck.

 

i'm curious who would pay almost 3 times more for Revgenetics' NMN than NR since the person would almost have to know about NR and the commonly held belief that one is not more effective than the other.  

 

 

My guess is, some people read the press releases about NMN and don't realize NR is likely as effective.

 

Or maybe some folks have a lot of money and figure might as well give it a try, since we're not really sure about the science?

 

Its close to 10x the cost of NR if you compare the 60 capsules of 250mg  that alivebynature charges $40 in their 6 pack, vs $38 for 60 capsules of 25 mg NMN.

[ryukenden]

yes. It also shows that the dose of 2 capsules which is reported as 50 Mg NMN is accurate. Good luck.

i'm curious who would pay almost 3 times more for Revgenetics' NMN than NR since the person would almost have to know about NR and the commonly held belief that one is not more effective than the other.

My guess is, some people read the press releases about NMN and don't realize NR is likely as effective.

Or maybe some folks have a lot of money and figure might as well give it a try, since we're not really sure about the science?

Its close to 10x the cost of NR if you compare the 60 capsules of 250mg that alivebynature charges $40 in their 6 pack, vs $38 for 60 capsules of 25 mg NMN.

Thank you. Is there any data comparing effectiveness of NMN and NR you are aware of?

[able]

 

 

 

yes. It also shows that the dose of 2 capsules which is reported as 50 Mg NMN is accurate. Good luck.

i'm curious who would pay almost 3 times more for Revgenetics' NMN than NR since the person would almost have to know about NR and the commonly held belief that one is not more effective than the other.

My guess is, some people read the press releases about NMN and don't realize NR is likely as effective.

Or maybe some folks have a lot of money and figure might as well give it a try, since we're not really sure about the science?

Its close to 10x the cost of NR if you compare the 60 capsules of 250mg that alivebynature charges $40 in their 6 pack, vs $38 for 60 capsules of 25 mg NMN.

Thank you. Is there any data comparing effectiveness of NMN and NR you are aware of?

 

 

 

Samuel Trammels thesis had some statements about the superiority of NR, but I admit I take those with a grain of salt as his advisor, Dr Brenner, has an obvious bias for NR.  

 

Re-reading the thesis now, it looks like the intention is to prove the superiority of NR.

 

NOVEL NAD+ METABOLOMIC TECHNOLOGIES AND THEIR APPLICATIONS TO NICOTINAMIDE RIBOSIDE INTERVENTIONS

 

“In chapter 4, we establish that NR is a superior NAD+ precursor compared to NMN using stable isotope labeling technologies “

 

“we report for the first time that NR is a far superior effector in NAD+ metabolism, increasing both hepatic NAD+ and NAAD to a greater extent compared to NA and Nam“

 

 

I came back to the question of NR vs NMN myself when I noticed these 2 below  recently released studies on Mice models of Freidriechs Ataxia.  

 

If I’m reading them correctly, it seems like NMN restored heart function, while NR failed in nearly the same situation.

 

 

Nicotinamide mononucleotide requires SIRT3 to improve cardiac function and bioenergetics in a Friedreich’s ataxia cardiomyopathy model

 

“Remarkably, NMN administered to FXN-KO mice restores cardiac function to near-normal levels. “

 

 

NAD+ replacement therapy with nicotinamide riboside does not improve cardiac function in a model of mitochondrial heart disease

 

 

“In conclusion, NAD+ supplementation with NR in the FRDA model of mitochondrial heart disease does not alter SIRT3 activity or improve cardiac function.”

[MikeDC]

The two studies were not done by the same people.

[stefan_001]

I wonder what they mean with the NR dosing: 10 ml/kg/day. If means 10 milligram / kg of bodyweight / day then the dosing is very little. Thats about 30mg / day for an adult.

[natasjlp]

I wonder what they mean with the NR dosing: 10 ml/kg/day. If means 10 milligram / kg of bodyweight / day then the dosing is very little. Thats about 30mg / day for an adult.

 

stefan_001, I believe this equates closer to 3 grams per day, not 30 mg.

 

So for now, it does appear costly, until we find a new source of quality, yet affordable NMN.

 

If I do locate a reputable source, with better pricing than what is currently available, I will be post it here for everyone to review.

[MikeDC]

We are already getting great results from NR. If NMN can do better, it will be great. But I doubt it.

[stefan_001]

I wonder what they mean with the NR dosing: 10 ml/kg/day. If means 10 milligram / kg of bodyweight / day then the dosing is very little. Thats about 30mg / day for an adult.

stefan_001, I believe this equates closer to 3 grams per day, not 30 mg.

So for now, it does appear costly, until we find a new source of quality, yet affordable NMN.

If I do locate a reputable source, with better pricing than what is currently available, I will be post it here for everyone to review.

How do you get to 3 gram? HED is approx. 0.8mg/kg/day which means about 56mg / day for a 70kg adult. I did make an error actually in the first post. Nevertheless its very low dosing. Unless the 10ml /kg / day means something different. Please explain.

[MikeDC]

I wonder what they mean with the NR dosing: 10 ml/kg/day. If means 10 milligram / kg of bodyweight / day then the dosing is very little. Thats about 30mg / day for an adult.

stefan_001, I believe this equates closer to 3 grams per day, not 30 mg.

So for now, it does appear costly, until we find a new source of quality, yet affordable NMN.

If I do locate a reputable source, with better pricing than what is currently available, I will be post it here for everyone to review.

How do you get to 3 gram? HED is approx. 0.8mg/kg/day which means about 56mg / day for a 70kg adult. I did make an error actually in the first post. Nevertheless its very low dosing. Unless the 10ml /kg / day means something different. Please explain.

Correct. The dose is too small. They typically use 250mg/kg for mice.

[natasjlp]

 

 

I wonder what they mean with the NR dosing: 10 ml/kg/day. If means 10 milligram / kg of bodyweight / day then the dosing is very little. Thats about 30mg / day for an adult.

stefan_001, I believe this equates closer to 3 grams per day, not 30 mg.

So for now, it does appear costly, until we find a new source of quality, yet affordable NMN.

If I do locate a reputable source, with better pricing than what is currently available, I will be post it here for everyone to review.

How do you get to 3 gram? HED is approx. 0.8mg/kg/day which means about 56mg / day for a 70kg adult. I did make an error actually in the first post. Nevertheless its very low dosing. Unless the 10ml /kg / day means something different. Please explain.

 

Reference Link: https://www.egaceuti...application.pdf

 

 

stefan_001 could you reference the specific study you are referring to? I am referencing EGA's Global patent within has that study, specifically using NMN, not NR. I want to make sure we are talking about the same thing. 

Edited by natasjlp, 27 July 2017 - 02:44 AM.

[stefan_001]

I wonder what they mean with the NR dosing: 10 ml/kg/day. If means 10 milligram / kg of bodyweight / day then the dosing is very little. Thats about 30mg / day for an adult.

stefan_001, I believe this equates closer to 3 grams per day, not 30 mg.

So for now, it does appear costly, until we find a new source of quality, yet affordable NMN.

If I do locate a reputable source, with better pricing than what is currently available, I will be post it here for everyone to review.

How do you get to 3 gram? HED is approx. 0.8mg/kg/day which means about 56mg / day for a 70kg adult. I did make an error actually in the first post. Nevertheless its very low dosing. Unless the 10ml /kg / day means something different. Please explain.

Reference Link: https://www.egaceuti...application.pdf

stefan_001 could you reference the specific study you are referring to? I am referencing EGA's Global patent within has that study, specifically using NMN, not NR. I want to make sure we are talking about the same thing.

The NR study in post #20
https://insight.jci....cles/view/93885

[able]

I mixed up the titles/links in post #20 - should be:

Nicotinamide mononucleotide requires SIRT3 to improve cardiac function and bioenergetics in a Friedreich’s ataxia cardiomyopathy model
 
“Remarkably, NMN administered to FXN-KO mice restores cardiac function to near-normal levels. “
 
NAD+ replacement therapy with nicotinamide riboside does not improve cardiac function in a model of mitochondrial heart disease
  
“In conclusion, NAD+ supplementation with NR in the FRDA model of mitochondrial heart disease does not alter SIRT3 activity or improve cardiac function.”

Edited by Michael, 01 August 2017 - 04:53 PM.
clean up

[natasjlp]

stefan_001 could you reference the specific study you are referring to? I am referencing EGA's Global patent within has that study, specifically using NMN, not NR. I want to make sure we are talking about the same thing.

The NR study in post #20
https://insight.jci....cles/view/93885

stefan_001, the 'quote' back and forth is beginning to become a bit overcrowded, heh. 
 
The link you posted here, looks to be talking about mice 500mg/kg using only NMN, not NR. Is this the correct link? or am I looking in the wrong location?
 
I had meant to post the link I was referencing in our above conversations, but posted it within your 'quote' section, that I was 'quoting', by mistake, when I had edited it, in order to add the reference link *phew*
 
Regardless, here is the patent, which contains the human study using NMN (which sounds closer to what I thought you were referencing originally), that I was originally referencing: Reference Link: https://www.egaceuti...application.pdf
 
Ok, hope this 'quote' response is helping to begin to clear things up for both of us, and anyone else reading through this thread. I will start a fresh/cleaner response after this one.

Edited by Michael, 01 August 2017 - 04:52 PM.
empty quote bubbles