326 replies to this topic

[LawrenceW]

MkeDC

 

I also have 100% confidence in NMN and I have no doubt clinical trials will prove it.

 

I also tried NR for 3 months and only got a fraction of the benefits that I currently get from NMN.

 

I also have 100% confidence, that in the long run, clinical trials will demonstrate that NMN has more health benefits than NR.

[MikeDC]

Give peace a chance, someone said. Debating NMN vs NR will not lead to any useful conclusion. Let us wait for the outcome of human trials. And, I keep reminding, several top researchers in the field think that all Nad precursors have different values for different tissues.
Meanwhile, this company
https://store.revgenetics.com/
offers NMN as bulk powder for a less outrageous price than for capsules. Can anyone tell me: is NMN stable enough to survive after opening the pot?

I've been taking that NMN powder for 4 months.

I had the same question as you about stability, so I intentionally left a little in the bottom of the first jar I tried. 4 months later, I see no noticeable difference from the powder in a new jar.

I see other suppliers with better pricing, but like this without fillers and more convenient for using sublingual. I feel like I'm getting more benefit that way.

Anyone else trying NMN sublingual?

How many people have tried NMN? How many people have tried NR? There is no comparison there.

[able]

 

 

Give peace a chance, someone said. Debating NMN vs NR will not lead to any useful conclusion. Let us wait for the outcome of human trials. And, I keep reminding, several top researchers in the field think that all Nad precursors have different values for different tissues.
Meanwhile, this company
https://store.revgenetics.com/
offers NMN as bulk powder for a less outrageous price than for capsules. Can anyone tell me: is NMN stable enough to survive after opening the pot?

I've been taking that NMN powder for 4 months.

I had the same question as you about stability, so I intentionally left a little in the bottom of the first jar I tried. 4 months later, I see no noticeable difference from the powder in a new jar.

I see other suppliers with better pricing, but like this without fillers and more convenient for using sublingual. I feel like I'm getting more benefit that way.

Anyone else trying NMN sublingual?

How many people have tried NMN? How many people have tried NR? There is no comparison there.

 

 

How many people have tried Vitamin C?  How many people have tried NR?   Doesn't mean Vitamin C is better than NR.   

[MikeDC]

Give peace a chance, someone said. Debating NMN vs NR will not lead to any useful conclusion. Let us wait for the outcome of human trials. And, I keep reminding, several top researchers in the field think that all Nad precursors have different values for different tissues.
Meanwhile, this company
https://store.revgenetics.com/
offers NMN as bulk powder for a less outrageous price than for capsules. Can anyone tell me: is NMN stable enough to survive after opening the pot?

I've been taking that NMN powder for 4 months.

I had the same question as you about stability, so I intentionally left a little in the bottom of the first jar I tried. 4 months later, I see no noticeable difference from the powder in a new jar.

I see other suppliers with better pricing, but like this without fillers and more convenient for using sublingual. I feel like I'm getting more benefit that way.

Anyone else trying NMN sublingual?

How many people have tried NMN? How many people have tried NR? There is no comparison there.

How many people have tried Vitamin C? How many people have tried NR? Doesn't mean Vitamin C is better than NR.

Your question lacks logic. Why don’t you ask how many tries rice?

[tunt01]

 

How many people have tried NMN? How many people have tried NR? There is no comparison there.

 

 

You have 1000+ downvotes/negative votes in this forum.  Maybe cool it for a bit and listen to other information and facts before constantly slamming these threads with your off the wall conjecture.

[LawrenceW]

MikeDC

 

"How many people have tried NMN? How many people have tried NR? There is no comparison there."

 

This is my opinion on how to best answer your question.

 

I consider NR as a stepping stone on the path to NMN.  3 or 4 years ago, when this iteration of anti aging first emerged, NMN could only be afforded by the 0.01 percenters.  NR was the only relatively affordable alternative and therefore got an early following based on cost and not on performance.  Now that the price of NMN is coming down to broadly affordable levels you will see lots of people change to the much superior, in my opinion and experience, NMN.

 

 

Edited by LawrenceW, 20 February 2018 - 05:02 PM.

[MikeDC]

How many people have tried NMN? How many people have tried NR? There is no comparison there.

You have 1000+ downvotes/negative votes in this forum. Maybe cool it for a bit and listen to other information and facts before constantly slamming these threads with your off the wall conjecture.

I showed you a NMN study that only raised NAD+ by less than 20% in mice liver and muscles. You call that off wall? Show me another study that NMN raised NAD+ more with 300mg/kg dose.

[LawrenceW]

 

 

How many people have tried NMN? How many people have tried NR? There is no comparison there.

You have 1000+ downvotes/negative votes in this forum. Maybe cool it for a bit and listen to other information and facts before constantly slamming these threads with your off the wall conjecture.

I showed you a NMN study that only raised NAD+ by less than 20% in mice liver and muscles. You call that off wall? Show me another study that NMN raised NAD+ more with 300mg/kg dose.

 

 

Yes you did, but the question is why do you leave out the rest of that sentence from the study?  The full sentence is "the

300 mg/kg/day group did not show any statistically significant increases over time, whereas the control and the 100 mg/kg/day

groups showed significant increases over time.

[MikeDC]

Give peace a chance, someone said. Debating NMN vs NR will not lead to any useful conclusion. Let us wait for the outcome of human trials. And, I keep reminding, several top researchers in the field think that all Nad precursors have different values for different tissues.
Meanwhile, this company
https://store.revgenetics.com/
offers NMN as bulk powder for a less outrageous price than for capsules. Can anyone tell me: is NMN stable enough to survive after opening the pot?

I've been taking that NMN powder for 4 months.

I had the same question as you about stability, so I intentionally left a little in the bottom of the first jar I tried. 4 months later, I see no noticeable difference from the powder in a new jar.

I see other suppliers with better pricing, but like this without fillers and more convenient for using sublingual. I feel like I'm getting more benefit that way.

Anyone else trying NMN sublingual?

Thanks Able, glad to hear the voice of sanity in the din here.
Sublingual is a very good idea, I had not thought of that.
Can the benefit you perceive be put into words? Like, more energy in general, or more fitness performance?
I will try this. In addition to my NR dosage of about 375mg daily.
Any other sublingualists around here?

I have been taking NR for 2 1/2 years and experienced many benefits others mention such as more energy, better sleep, better skin, hair, nails.

I didn't really notice much difference in the 1-2 months I used NMN capsules vs NR, but was a short time and many confounding factors such as diet and exercise changes.

With sub-lingual NMN, I don't notice more energy, but do seem to have more endurance - no sleepy or tired feelings throughout the day. Of course, that is very subjective and near meaningless as an anecdote.

The one difference I find so far that is not subjective is, my swimming and running times at the track (220 to 1 mile) have improved quite a bit - back to where I was 10 years ago. I can't be sure the cause, but am sure it is not my imagination or placebo.

2 1/2 years of NR have turned you into a younger person. You can do really good without taking anything for a while. It is hardly evidence that NMN works better.

Can you let us know what dose of NR and NMN you used?

[MikeDC]

How many people have tried NMN? How many people have tried NR? There is no comparison there.

You have 1000+ downvotes/negative votes in this forum. Maybe cool it for a bit and listen to other information and facts before constantly slamming these threads with your off the wall conjecture.

I showed you a NMN study that only raised NAD+ by less than 20% in mice liver and muscles. You call that off wall? Show me another study that NMN raised NAD+ more with 300mg/kg dose.

Yes you did, but the question is why do you leave out the rest of that sentence from the study? The full sentence is "the
300 mg/kg/day group did not show any statistically significant increases over time, whereas the control and the 100 mg/kg/day
groups showed significant increases over time.

I didn’t read that part. I just looked at the data. If this is true, then NMN actually reduces NAD+ over time. Wow!

[LawrenceW]

MikeDC

 

Wrong answer.

 

In our experimenting with NMN we discovered that there were no issues taking a high dose of NMN for the first 3 to 4 weeks.  After the first 3 to 4 weeks a biological feedback loop kicked in and the high dose NMN was no longer effective.  After quite of bit of experimenting, our guy found 2 compounds, that when taken with the high dose NMN, allowed the high dose NMN to keep working.  After much further experimenting we found that the trigger point for that feedback loop seems to lie between 100 mg/kg/day and 300 mg/kg/day mouse dosage. 12.1 mg/kg/day and 36.2 mg/kg/day human dosage. To test that, I am currently 2 months into a 16.1 mg/kg/day (750 mg twice per day) NMN only experiment.  Physically I feel the same as when I was on the high dose NMN, but only the blood panels at the end of March will tell me what is really going on inside my body.

[LawrenceW]

Besides after reading post #16 from this thread: http://www.longecity...n-degeneration/

 

I would never go back on NR.

 

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Posted Today, 07:12 AM

UPDATE:  This plot, which I'll describe further in following post, presents the results of 10 years (120 months) of visual field count (VFC) results that include experiments with three types of B3 supplementation:  NA = niacin, NR = nicotinamide riboside, and NAM = nicotinamide.  The horizontal error bars denote the length of each treatment, and the vertical bars denote the average deviation of measurements.  The size of the squares (RE = right eye) or diamonds (LE = left eye) roughly indicate the total number of measurements made during each treatment, ranging from just 6 (the 375 mg NR treatment - halted after just 2 months due to significant vision loss) to many hundreds (the central "No B3" treatment).

 

 

 

•  

 

 

Edited by LawrenceW, 20 February 2018 - 08:04 PM.

[MikeDC]

MikeDC

 

Wrong answer.

 

In our experimenting with NMN we discovered that there were no issues taking a high dose of NMN for the first 3 to 4 weeks.  After the first 3 to 4 weeks a biological feedback loop kicked in and the high dose NMN was no longer effective.  After quite of bit of experimenting, our guy found 2 compounds, that when taken with the high dose NMN, allowed the high dose NMN to keep working.  After much further experimenting we found that the trigger point for that feedback loop seems to lie between 100 mg/kg/day and 300 mg/kg/day mouse dosage. 12.1 mg/kg/day and 36.2 mg/kg/day human dosage. To test that, I am currently 2 months into a 16.1 mg/kg/day (750 mg twice per day) NMN only experiment.  Physically I feel the same as when I was on the high dose NMN, but only the blood panels at the end of March will tell me what is really going on inside my body.

 

I don't think anyone is interested in your experiments. Your body has been damaged already with large doses of NMN. The people who read your posts and followed your advice are all much older than before.

[MikeDC]

 

Besides after reading post #16 from this thread: http://www.longecity...n-degeneration/

 

I would never go back on NR.

 

• 
• Registered User
• 146 posts
• 55 ₮

• Location:USA
• NO

Posted Today, 07:12 AM

UPDATE:  This plot, which I'll describe further in following post, presents the results of 10 years (120 months) of visual field count (VFC) results that include experiments with three types of B3 supplementation:  NA = niacin, NR = nicotinamide riboside, and NAM = nicotinamide.  The horizontal error bars denote the length of each treatment, and the vertical bars denote the average deviation of measurements.  The size of the squares (RE = right eye) or diamonds (LE = left eye) roughly indicate the total number of measurements made during each treatment, ranging from just 6 (the 375 mg NR treatment - halted after just 2 months due to significant vision loss) to many hundreds (the central "No B3" treatment).

 

 

 

•  

 

 

You are taking one person's experiment as truth? 

[LawrenceW]

MikeDC.

 

Apparently 1 person reporting a loss of vision is not enough for you to pay attention to.  Out of curiosity, would 2 people, 5 people, or 10 people reporting loss of vision be enough for you to pay attention to? 

[MikeDC]

MikeDC.

Apparently 1 person reporting a loss of vision is not enough for you to pay attention to. Out of curiosity, would 2 people, 5 people, or 10 people reporting loss of vision be enough for you to pay attention to?

That guy is nuts. You don’t lose and gain vision at will. High dose Nicotinamide is extremely bad too.

[sthira]

You don’t lose and gain vision at will.

I can't open and close my eyes, either, fwiw. Nictitation is super complicated; so I prefer to keep my eyes closed. But when I take Niagen, they open again. Like flowers. Mysterious!

[tintinet]

Need a “silly/inebriated” button!

Edited by tintinet, 21 February 2018 - 12:09 AM.

[ceridwen]

Can one take NR NMN together safely?

[able]

Can one take NR NMN together safely?

 

I've never seen anyone hypothesize that the combination could cause problems.

 

Many researchers suggest it likely we eventually find a combination does prove effective as they tend to target different tissues.

 

I doubt there is any verifiable testing completed or underway.

 

However, this Chinese patent claims some extraordinary results from testing a combination of NMN and NR at 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 ratios.

 

The claims sound too good to be true.  Certainly their testing is not as trustworthy as clinical trials.  

 

 

https://patents.goog...t/US20170165282

 

 

" It is confirmed by clinical trials that one month after orally taking β-nicotinamide mononucleotide, the total effective rate in patients having cardio-cerebrovascular diseases resulting from arteriosclerosis can be up to 96%; one month after orally taking both the β-nicotinamide mononucleotide and the nicotinamide riboside, the total effective rate can be further up to 98%; and one month after intramuscularly injecting β-nicotinamide mononucleotide and nicotinamide riboside, the total effective rate can be up to 99%."

[LawrenceW]

Able.

 

I weigh 205 pounds. I avoided the homeostasis of higher dose NMN by adding 1,800 mg of Betaine and 2 drops of 35% hydrogen peroxide per NMN dose.

[able]

Interesting, thanks Lawrence.  Now I have more research to do...

[sthira]

...So I kicked it up to 500 mg, 3 times a day. Been doing that for 2 weeks and it’s been fabulous so far. Energy like a 20 year old, clear headed, and just ran a sub-7 minute mile and 89 second 1/4 mile yesterday - back to my time of 10 years ago. I had to stop all caffeine again for now, but decaf taste almost the same to me...

Great report. Do you worry at all that escalating dosages may be like putting high-powered fuel into an old engine?

I've never tried NMN, and I'm hesitant because six months of NR at 500mg per day did nothing for me. Coffee seems superior to NR (unless it's actually repairing damages, and who knows about that...)

[LawrenceW]

sthira

 

I was on a high dose of NMN, (3,400mg twice per day) from July 2015 to May 2016 and my blood work showed wonderful results.  I tried 500 mg twice per day of NR from June 2017 to Aug. 2017 and my blood work showed minimal to no results. I started back up on a reduced dose of NMN (1,700 mg twice per day) in Sept. 2017 also with almost identical wonderful results.  After 3 months on that dose my blood work showed the same improvements as the higher dose so I dropped down to my current 750 mg of NMN twice per day.  Physically I feel no difference from when I was on the higher doses of NMN.  I am going in for my blood work at the end of March and will find out if this lower dose also works as good as the higher doses did. 

 

All that I can say is that once you try NMN you will never go back to NR. 

 

BTW, I just turned 60 but now feel like I did in my late 30s.

Edited by LawrenceW, 26 February 2018 - 01:15 AM.

[able]

 

...So I kicked it up to 500 mg, 3 times a day. Been doing that for 2 weeks and it’s been fabulous so far. Energy like a 20 year old, clear headed, and just ran a sub-7 minute mile and 89 second 1/4 mile yesterday - back to my time of 10 years ago. I had to stop all caffeine again for now, but decaf taste almost the same to me...

Great report. Do you worry at all that escalating dosages may be like putting high-powered fuel into an old engine?

I've never tried NMN, and I'm hesitant because six months of NR at 500mg per day did nothing for me. Coffee seems superior to NR (unless it's actually repairing damages, and who knows about that...)

 

 

Thanks sthira - I always value your thoughtful insights, and comedic inputs Into discussions.

 

“six months of NR at 500mg per day did nothing for me.”

 

Perhaps you  are too young and healthy to benefit from NR?  

 

I admit, I am somewhat reckless, and will go overboard at times.  But to me, NAD+ is what fuels our metabolism, so whatever I can do to increase it is more than likely to be  a good thing.

 

I personally don't see any research  that indicates  excess NR or NMN is  detrimental for most people.   It may turn out to be bad for cancer patients or such, but we don't know and I'm just guessing and playing the averages.

 

I don’t know if NR and NMN are helping to slow or repair cellular damage, or somehow making it worse.  I’m mostly  going by how I feel, which has been positive with both NR and NMN.  

 

I don’t keep detailed records of blood tests like others here, but I do have those online so guess I should put them in a spreadsheet.

[LawrenceW]

Moderator.

 

Is it time for NMN to receive its own subforum in the LongeCity Supplements section? Right now NMN is just a post in the NR section and seems to be stirring up the hornets nest of rabid NR supporters. With NMN having its own subforum, civility should return to the discussions.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Thanks

[Michael]

Moderator.

 

Is it time for NMN to receive its own subforum in the LongeCity Supplements section? Right now NMN is just a post in the NR section and seems to be stirring up the hornets nest of rabid NR supporters. With NMN having its own subforum, civility should return to the discussions.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Thanks

 

I actually originally advocated for this subforum to be called "NAD+ Precursors;" I'm not sure why "NR" was chosen. In any case, since the research on all of these really needs to be considered together, and the relative benefits of each remain hotly contested and discussed across threads, I'd suggest considering this the NAD+ Precursors subforum.

[LawrenceW]

The other subforums are labelled:

 

Regimens

Resveratrol

C60Oil

NR

 

to avoid confusion you should consider changing NR to NAD+ precursors or add NMN.  The way it is structured right now you recognize NR as a supplement but not NMN. 

[ryukenden]

sthira

I was on a high dose of NMN, (3,400mg twice per day) from July 2015 to May 2016 and my blood work showed wonderful results. I tried 500 mg twice per day of NR from June 2017 to Aug. 2017 and my blood work showed minimal to no results. I started back up on a reduced dose of NMN (1,700 mg twice per day) in Sept. 2017 also with almost identical wonderful results. After 3 months on that dose my blood work showed the same improvements as the higher dose so I dropped down to my current 750 mg of NMN twice per day. Physically I feel no difference from when I was on the higher doses of NMN. I am going in for my blood work at the end of March and will find out if this lower dose also works as good as the higher doses did.

All that I can say is that once you try NMN you will never go back to NR.

BTW, I just turned 60 but now feel like I did in my late 30s.

Hi Lawrence
I bought 12 bottles of NMN for my father. Each capsule is NMN 125 mg. He is over 70 years. What dose do you recommend?

Thanks

[LawrenceW]

ryukenden

 

Sorry, I can't make any recommendations. But, I can share with you my personal experience.  I weigh 205 pounds and am currently taking 750 mg twice per day. Several others in our group are taking 500 mg twice per day and are very pleased with their results. Dr. Sinclair is taking 500 mg once per day.