326 replies to this topic

[Michael]

I have moved posts on sublingual use and NMN suppliers into their existing threads, and created a new thread for intranasal use.

[midas]

http://www.freepaten...18/0118819.html

[able]

http://www.freepaten...18/0118819.html

 

 

Interesting - now, what does it mean

 

I see claim one if for treating disease due to "muscular cell death", and is expanded for treating muscular dystrophy.

 

But then I notice claim 136 seems very broad:

 

 

136. A method of treating or preventing a mitochondrial myopathy in a subject in need thereof comprising administering to the subject nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN), a salt thereof, a prodrug thereof, or a combination thereof, to treat or prevent a mitochondrial myopathy.

 

 

Does this mean Sinclair now has a patent that covers any use of NMN for treating or preventing any "mitochondria Myopathy"?  

 

Aren't mitochondria the target for any NMN usage, so he can soon shut down all NMN sales and force us to use his patented version?

 

Or does that just cover usage  prescribed by doctors for specific purposes, not the sale of "dietary supplements" such as on the market now?

Edited by able, 22 May 2018 - 06:55 PM.

[Michael]

Interesting - now, what does it mean
 
I see claim one if for treating disease due to "muscular cell death", and is expanded for treating muscular dystrophy.
 
But then I notice claim 136 seems very broad:
 
 
136. A method of treating or preventing a mitochondrial myopathy in a subject in need thereof comprising administering to the subject nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN), a salt thereof, a prodrug thereof, or a combination thereof, to treat or prevent a mitochondrial myopathy.
 
 
Does this mean Sinclair now has a patent that covers any use of NMN for treating or preventing any "mitochondria Myopathy"?  
 
Aren't mitochondria the target for any NMN usage, so he can soon shut down all NMN sales and force us to use his patented version?

 
Mitochondrial Myopathies  are high-penetrance, severe mito genetic disorders — if you had one, you'd know . This is a disease indication, not an enhancement, supplementation, or "normal" aging application.

[MikeDC]

These kind of use patents are useless. It is not even granted.

[Daniel Cooper]

These are application patents, as are most of Chromadex's patents.

 

When you're talking about a naturally occurring compound, you're generally either looking at patenting the synthesis route, or the application of the compound to treat some disease or to produce some benefit.  

 

Since Chromadex didn't invent the synthesis route for NR (they licensed that) the vast majority of their patents are similar application patents.

 

And the NMN patent referenced above isn't granted, which isn't all all surprising since it was only filed last year.  

 

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 22 May 2018 - 08:43 PM.

[MikeDC]

These are application patents, as are most of Chromadex's patents.

When you're talking about a naturally occurring compound, you're generally either looking at patenting the synthesis route, or the application of the compound to treat some disease or to produce some benefit.

Since Chromadex didn't invent the synthesis route for NR (they licensed that) the vast majority of their patents are similar application patents.

And the NMN patent referenced above isn't granted, which isn't all all surprising since it was only filed last year.

ChromaDex licensed both synthesis and use of isolated NR. The other use patents are not useful.

[Daniel Cooper]

ChromaDex licensed both synthesis and use of isolated NR. The other use patents are not useful.

 

 

So ChromaDex's application (use) patents are not useful?  That's almost every patent that actually has ChromaDex's name on it.

 

 

Is your issue with application patents in general, or just those that undermine ChromaDex?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 23 May 2018 - 02:19 PM.

[MikeDC]

So ChromaDex's application (use) patents are not useful? That's almost every patent that actually has ChromaDex's name on it.


Is your issue with application patents in general, or just those that undermine ChromaDex?

I don’t think the application patents alone are useful. The Dartmouth patent has a clause of isolated NR. That makes the patent enforceable

[InvictusVivus]

http://www.freepaten...18/0118819.html

 

Midas, thank you very much for posting the NMN related patent link above. 

Amongst other things, the dosage ranges specified in the application are quite interesting and perhaps very useful to NMN users.  The tops of some of the dose ranges are far higher than I have ever seen before and lead me to wonder why.

Edited by InvictusVivus, 23 May 2018 - 08:21 PM.

[InvictusVivus]

At this juncture I have had only enough time to give the subject patent application above a very brief scan.

However, prima facie, I have seen enough to have a serious concern about the depth and scope of all the claims within the application; if they all were to be granted there is a large potential for monopolistic practices with consequent limitations on availability of NMN and steep rises of prices of NMN.

[Daniel Cooper]

At this juncture I have had only enough time to give the subject patent application above a very brief scan.

However, prima facie, I have seen enough to have a serious concern about the depth and scope of all the claims within the application; if they all were to be granted there is a large potential for monopolistic practices with consequent limitations on availability of NMN and steep rises of prices of NMN.

 

 

I browsed the patent as well.  I wouldn't worry too much about that at this juncture.  Patent lawyers are trained to claim the sun and the moon in the initial filing.  I don't doubt that this patent will be significantly paired back before it is granted.

 

Besides that, as MikeDC points out, application patents are notoriously hard to enforce.  You patent NMN to treat some mitochondrial disease.  Fine, I patent it to treat toenail fungus and sell it while everyone knows it's the same product.

[Phoebus]

Able.

 

I weigh 205 pounds. I avoided the homeostasis of higher dose NMN by adding 1,800 mg of Betaine and 2 drops of 35% hydrogen peroxide per NMN dose.

 

 

interesting, why the oxidizing agent? 

[Supierce]

NICOTINAMIDE MONONUCLEOTIDE DERIVATIVES AND THEIR USES

 

http://www.freepaten...18/0147227.html

 

[Phoebus]

NICOTINAMIDE MONONUCLEOTIDE DERIVATIVES AND THEIR USES

 

http://www.freepaten...18/0147227.html

 

 

what the heck even is this? 

 

he is trying to patent using NMN to treat...anything? 

 

what is this patent even for? 

 

 

 

The invention relates to compositions of nicotinamide mononucleotide derivatives and their methods of use. In some embodiments, the invention relates to methods of making nicotinamide mononucleotide derivatives. In some embodiments, the invention relates to pharmaceutical compositions and nutritional supplements containing one or more nicotinamide mononucleotide derivatives. In further embodiments, the invention relates to methods of using nicotinamide mononucleotide derivatives that promote the increase of intracellular levels of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) in cells and tissues for treating diseases and improving cell and tissue survival.

 

 

this is so far reaching and vague I have no idea what this is even supposed to be a patent for 

Edited by Phoebus, 12 June 2018 - 08:29 PM.

[Supierce]

what the heck even is this? 

 

he is trying to patent using NMN to treat...anything? 

 

what is this patent even for? 

 

 

 

this is so far reaching and vague I have no idea what this is even supposed to be a patent for 

Search for Diseases, Disorders and Conditions about halfway down. There's quite a lot to chew on there. But you're right - he's certainly trying to cover all the bases.

Edited by Supierce, 12 June 2018 - 09:29 PM.

[Phoebus]

Search for Diseases, Disorders and Conditions about halfway down. There's quite a lot to chew on there. But you're right - he's certainly trying to cover all the bases.

 

Huntington's disease 

 

Catatonia 

 

Neuroleptic malignant syndrome

 

Parkinson's disease

 

Epilepsy

 

and the list goes on

 

these kind of patents just seem ridiculous to me. "if NMN treats anything anywhere I should get a cut!"

 

really? 

[MikeDC]

Huntington's disease

Catatonia

Neuroleptic malignant syndrome

Parkinson's disease

Epilepsy

and the list goes on

these kind of patents just seem ridiculous to me. "if NMN treats anything anywhere I should get a cut!"

really?

This kind of broad patent application will most likely be denied.

[Phoebus]

This kind of broad patent application will most likely be denied.

 

 

Sinclair isn't some new comer dummy, why do this if its going to get denied? He can afford the best lawyers, why are they writing ridiculous patent requests? 

 

its just seems weird to me. I dont understand. 

[Oakman]

Sinclair isn't some new comer dummy, why do this if its going to get denied? He can afford the best lawyers, why are they writing ridiculous patent requests? 

 

its just seems weird to me. I dont understand. 

 

I think it is because of the warped patent system in use today.

 

Here is an exhaustive discussion at www.harvard.edu about the patent system and broad claims made and the possible validity of these claims and why they are made in the first place.

 

 

An excerpt,

 

"To restrict [a patentee] to the . . . form disclosed . . . would be a poor way to stimulate invention, and particularly to encourage its early disclosure. To demand such restriction is merely to state a policy against broad protection for pioneer inventions, a policy both shortsighted and unsound from the standpoint of promoting progress in the useful arts, the constitutional purpose of the patent laws. n39 

But surely one can go too far. Although as a general rule, a patentee should be able to claim beyond her precise disclosure, current practice seems to permit a range of claims that may stretch beyond the spirit of the enablement doctrine. If the patent examiner can point to something in the prior art that indicates that some embodiments of the claimed invention will be impossible to make without more information than the inventor has disclosed, then the application may be rejected. But if the examiner cannot point to such an indication in the prior art, patent office policy dictates that even very broad claims may be allowed. n40 This means that claims to pioneer inventions often are allowed to cover ground that examiners believe, but cannot prove, is well [*849] beyond the area actually explored and disclosed by the inventor. n41 The rule puts the burden of disproving enablement on the examiner. The rationale is that any other rule would leave claim scope too much in the hands of individual examiners and their technological forecasting abilities. n42 Narrowing is left to the courts in particular infringement suits.

[Steve H]

We are launching an NMN project with the Sinclair lab over at Lifespan.io on September 18th, 2018 for those interested in this precursor.

[Oakman]

We are launching an NMN project with the Sinclair lab over at Lifespan.io on September 18th, 2018 for those interested in this precursor.

 

Can you explain more about the project, there are no details at your website.

[Michael]

Can you explain more about the project, there are no details at your website.

 

... as presumably there wouldn't be, since he said they're launching September 18 .

[stefan_001]

We are launching an NMN project with the Sinclair lab over at Lifespan.io on September 18th, 2018 for those interested in this precursor.

 

If its an investment opportunity then yes - please send the prospectus.
 

[Steve H]

Stefan, no this is not an investment opportunity it is a fundraising project for basic science looking at NMN and NAD+ biology at the Sinclair Lab.

As Michael points out above, details will follow but I can say there will be a lifespan study involved and other potentially interesting data being looked at.

[stefan_001]

@Steve H, ok understood will have a look when it goes online

[renntenn]

I am a 59 year old male living in Southern California.  I was one of the participants in a human trials study of NMN from July 2015 until May 2016.  I also participated in a trial of NR beginning June 2017 for 3 months and am now back on the NMN. All that I can say is that I experienced dramatic improvements physically and in almost all aspects of my blood chemistry while on the NMN and zero changes or improvements while on the NR. To quote my GP when she reviewed my blood panels after taking the NMN for 6 months, "you've got the blood of a 25 year old".

 

Hi Lawrence. 

 

I hope it is OK to ask you this, but would you be willing to do a Skype or phone call with me?
 

I would love to ask just a handful of questions. You can email me directly at renntenn@gmail.com or respond here. 

 

Thank you kindly in advance. 

 

-Jeff

Edited by renntenn, 17 September 2018 - 04:19 AM.