6 replies to this topic

[ironfistx]

According to Wolff's law, a bone becomes more dense when contact is applied to it. So for example, if you run, your feet are going to be more dense than those of someone who doesn't.

Can this be applied to other things? I have heard that your skin gets wrinkles because of a loss of bone density.

In kung fu, there is a technique called Iron Body by which you hit yourself and it creates tougher bones and you can receive harder strikes without harm. This is when you see guys breaking boards over their chests, backs, etc. Could this be used as part of an overall fitness routine? At first, softly hitting your arms with canvas sacks filled with mung beans and then progressing over time. Discuss possible problems as well advantages of doing this kind of technique.

[aconita]

Hitting bones makes them thicker because micro fractures healing leads to bone callus formation, which is somehow different than load bearing making bones denser.

 

It might lead to an increased risk of developing bone cancer as well as seen in muay thai boxers' shins.

 

OK, so far so good...so your idea is to hit you face bones in order to make them thicker and prevent or reverse sagging and wrinkles?

 

I am afraid it is not going to be as easy as it seems, leaving alone that inside the skull there should be the brain (not everyone concern, of course) which doesn't seem to particularly appreciate traumas.

 

The idea is interesting anyway, I don't think the hitting is going to be an appropriate mean but the principle is sound, possibly shockwave therapy or something similar, nothing like that has been researched so far that I am aware of but LIPUS for hemifacial microsomia.

 

So far my experimental LIPUS treatment in that direction doesn't seem to be effective after about 4 months daily treatments, likely it would take quite a long time to lead to some effect if any at all, I'll give it one year time before saying the last word.

[ironfistx]

For this I was going to get some iron bags and use them on my arms and legs, gently at first, to strengthen the bone.

I wasn't going to do it on my cheeks or anything but I was curious how lowering bone density causes wrinkles.

The idea about Thai people having higher rates of shin cancer is pretty much just lore that only appears on combat forums. Do you have publications which verify this fact? I want to say that in this kind of training the most time is spent on massage afterward, not on the actual contact.

[aconita]

Isn't the density itself causing wrinkles but bone loss, density and bone loss are certainly related but two distinct matters, micro traumas like hitting are more likely to induce bone thickening by developing bone callus while for density load bearing is likely more effective.

 

Bone loss is certainly responsible for wrinkles but likely subcutaneous fat loss more so, at least until bone loss isn't really substantial.

 

Hitting your arms and legs will lead to bones and skin thickening and nerves desensitizing, martial artists do that in order to be able to withstand hard blows without experiencing too much pain and to reduce damage.

 

If the above is what you aim for that's OK, otherwise just for improving bone density load bearing is better by far.

 

The idea about Thai people having higher rates of shin cancer is pretty much just lore that only appears on combat forums. Do you have publications which verify this fact?

 

 

In muay thai circles is common knowledge, I never researched papers about it but I wouldn't be surprised if there are none since I doubt researchers are much concerned with something affecting such a minute portion of population.

 

I want to say that in this kind of training the most time is spent on massage afterward, not on the actual contact.

 

 

Really?

 

I might suggest you to spend some time visiting training camps in Thailand, preferably real ones, not the tourist oriented versions.

 

Or you might try to achieve double shins' bone size just massaging them and see how it goes.

[ironfistx]

More discussion on this topic?

[Turnbuckle]

Can this be applied to other things?

 

 

Way back in the sixties, it was a common belief in my elementary school that whacking someone's arms made the muscles bigger. Possibly, but you'd have to deliver some real damage to get a benefit. Working out until sore seems a more reliable method, as satellite cells (muscle stem cells) are activated by the NO signals from damaged muscle. And of course you can take NO supplements, such as arginine and inorganic nitrates.

 

Muscle satellite cells are quiescent precursors interposed between myofibers and a sheath of external lamina. Although their activation and recruitment to cycle enable muscle repair and adaptation, the activation signal is not known. Evidence is presented that nitric oxide (NO) mediates satellite cell activation, including morphological hypertrophy and decreased adhesion in the fiber-lamina complex. Activation in vivo occurred within 1 min after injury.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...icles/PMC14889/

 

 

Also see: Performance and Health Benefits of Dietary Nitrate Supplementation in Older Adults: A Systematic Review

 

Thus all the nitro supplements on the market.

[ironfistx]

It's there any evidence of bone cancer other than what is discussed in martial arts pages?