44 replies to this topic

[dylesid]

Hello,

 

My situation is as follows. I had been taking GBL and GHB and Phenibut for about 4 years (huge amounts, hospitalized several times) and I probably totally destroyed my GABA B receptors, plus alcohol in that moments, where I wanted to recover from GBL addiction. After 4 tears, to recover, a doctor prescribed me benzodiapines (Tranxene, Diazepam) and I had been taken it for about 2 years and probably downregulated GABA A receptors as well.

After 1.5 years of abstinence I feel horrible still, huge mood swings, unable to climb normally on stairs (2nd floor), heart problems while doing any exercises, and most important, huge problems with sleep. Sleeping about 2-3 hour at night, but I have NO problem with falling asleep, but wake up after 3h and I cannot sleep.

 

So:

 

• mood horrible swings, low mood most of times
• physicals terribly fillings
• anxiety
• heart problems
• sleeping more than 3h impossible

 

For all that time I thought maybe it will regenerate itself, but it seems that it's not. So last time I tried Baclofen and it helped me a little, for example I can normally climbing on my 2nd floor, feel little bit better, but all I know I again downregulate GABA B receptors, so I think this is the wrong way again.

 

So I have done some research and found some substances which might help, but I am noob, so I do not want to take something which might worsened my condition.

 

 

• BPC-157 (https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/10707891)
• memantine
• fasoracetam
• Selank and Semax (https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24913576)
• Afobazole (https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/27636931)
• HDAC inhibitors: Vorinostat, PRL-8-53 (https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3717553/)
• homotaurine (https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/2823166)

 

I do not know any of those above.

My goal is to:

 

• heal somehow my GABA A and GABA B
• during healing do not commit suicide because of the mood (in other words what to take to feel normally?)
• be able to sleep more not using GABA X

I just want to add, that there is no specialist, doctor, anyone in my country with whom I could talk about my problem and start any treatment. When I mention about GABA, they are thinking I am talking of some quantum mechanic rocket science thing. That is why I ask you for any help here. I just want to feel normal again and not feel that I am dying every single morning.

[Junipersun]

You already found the best candidates in terms of pharmacological help. I'd get a shit load of BPC-157 first, as it should help with different damaged systems at the same time. Just speaking from anecdotal evidence, the gaba-b receptor and GHB-Receptor (which get fucked by GBL) are pretty roboust. I know many cases of long-term GBL-addicts personally, and they all recovered to 100% after 1-2 years abstinence. Whereas the damage done by benzos can last a really long time and sometimes are permanent. Memantine might help with feeling tense all the time. You might want to consider getting an antidepressant that promotes sleep. There are a lot of other good antidepressants that can help you with the "don't kill myself" part (like NSI-189). Just a word of caution, don't think about getting Pregabalin. It works almost on the same receptor as Phenibut (minus Gaba-B), which can induce a terrible depression once sufficiently downregulated.

[Kabb]

Check out this thread where the use of baclofen is discussed.  I am not sure I would agree with the rather relaxed attitude John Gona takes.  If you're interested, I seem to recall there was another similar thread active around the same time which had other contribution from John.

 

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/85286-baclofen-alternative-for-phenibut/

Edited by Kabb, 07 April 2017 - 06:12 PM.

[dylesid]

You already found the best candidates in terms of pharmacological help. I'd get a shit load of BPC-157 first, as it should help with different damaged systems at the same time. Just speaking from anecdotal evidence, the gaba-b receptor and GHB-Receptor (which get fucked by GBL) are pretty roboust. I know many cases of long-term GBL-addicts personally, and they all recovered to 100% after 1-2 years abstinence. Whereas the damage done by benzos can last a really long time and sometimes are permanent. Memantine might help with feeling tense all the time. You might want to consider getting an antidepressant that promotes sleep. There are a lot of other good antidepressants that can help you with the "don't kill myself" part (like NSI-189). Just a word of caution, don't think about getting Pregabalin. It works almost on the same receptor as Phenibut (minus Gaba-B), which can induce a terrible depression once sufficiently downregulated.

 

As far as I know GABA-B receptor if far more problematic to heal than GABA-A.

 

Also, Pregabalin although, 

pregabalin is an analogue of GABA, it does not bind directly to GABA_A, GABA_B, GABA_ϱ, or benzodiazepine receptors.

→ source (external link)

 

 

But I have tried it and felt really horrible, the amount of side-effects I had were to much for me. 

[dylesid]

Check out this thread where the use of baclofen is discussed.  I am not sure I would agree with the rather relaxed attitude John Gona takes.  If you're interested, I seem to recall there was another similar thread active around the same time which had other contribution from John.

 

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/85286-baclofen-alternative-for-phenibut/

 

Thanks for the link, but my goal is to avid all GABA agonists, including Baclofen and at the same time rebuilt GABA system - upregulete it. Also, because of problem with my sleep, use something, which does not work on any GABA receptor.

[Kabb]

 

Check out this thread where the use of baclofen is discussed.  I am not sure I would agree with the rather relaxed attitude John Gona takes.  If you're interested, I seem to recall there was another similar thread active around the same time which had other contribution from John.

 

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/85286-baclofen-alternative-for-phenibut/

 

Thanks for the link, but my goal is to avid all GABA agonists, including Baclofen and at the same time rebuilt GABA system - upregulete it. Also, because of problem with my sleep, use something, which does not work on any GABA receptor.

 

 

Unfortunately there isn't really anything to help up-regulate GABA(A) receptors.  These receptors don't just down-regulate but their response to incoming GABA is erratic and poorly controlled.  There is a largely experimental clinical protocol using the antagonist flumazenil which sort of smashes the GABA(A) receptor into submission in order to hopefully make it spring back but it is very contentious and, anyway, I can't see it being worth the risk in your case.  

 

GABA(A) receptors take a notoriously long time to recover.  Months not weeks.  Pessimists would say years.  GABA(B) receptor recovery is said to be much more rapid.

 

I thought you had mentioned magnesium but I think I am confusing this thread with another.  Magnesium 400 to 600 mg a day in divided doses can help calm the glutamate receptors which are overly dominant in the absence of functioning GABA(A) receptors and cause many of the nasty neurological withdrawal symptoms.

 

If I was in your position, of all the compounds you mention, I would consider mementine.  I don't have personal experience of it but it is on my list of compounds to try soon and I have my pills ready and waiting.  Acamprosate is used for alacohol withdrawal and potentially promising but I don't sense the results would be sufficiently significant for you.

 

The other thing I would definitely ensure (and this is a personal bete noir of mine with no clinical trials to support it) is to make your mitochondrial health outstanding in order to provide a truly good energy supply to your nervous system in order to make it more robust when it receives insults from a cascade of neurological events started by dysfunctioning GABA(A) receptors.  Take your pick from CoQ10, creatine, ALA, B complex vitamins, etc.  This is exceptionally useful to me and I wish I had done this when I was going through a very nasty 2 year benzo taper but it may or may not work for you.

 

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

 

Edited by Kabb, 19 April 2017 - 09:36 PM.

[dylesid]

Thank you VERY MUCH @Kabb

[adamh]

Once again I see the name bpc 157 come up. To me its already a near miraculous product, I got it for tendon issues and it works remarkably well. My digestive system too seems to function better now though its a little early to say. Now I find out its good for reestablishing the gaba receptors? Wow

 

I have major problems with insomnia but have found things that work or at least help. I now have hope my insomnia will get better along with my carpal tunnel and low back pain, etc. I will say that I am sleeping about as well as before I started it, hard to say if better or not. I did have one bad night since I started the bpc 157 but I seem to not be waking early at night and not being able to sleep like I was before. A little too soon to say for sure but I will be watching for that.

 

There is a substance called pharmagaba which is gaba that is supposed to get by the bbb and calm the brain. I have read many positive reviews and have ordered some. Other things I use are phenibut, etizolam, mj, akuamma seeds, kava and a few other things. If I don't use something very often it usually keeps working but I'm always looking for the silver bullet. Best of luck with your quest, OP.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

High dose theanine for sleep quality. Has no gaba affinities but does have affinity for glutamate receptors.

[ServousNystem]

Any updates on your progress OP?

[2swole79]

I have been dealing with the exact same things as the OP.....does anyone have any info about that med that supposedly can upregulate the GHB receptors? Amisulpride...(SP?)    I have basically chased one GABA withdrawal with another GABA type chemical until Im at the end of my rope....sleep no more than 2-3 hours at a time...always depressed mood, very little to no socialization, and my day/night circadian sleep cycle is completely whacked, feel most alert from midnight to sunrise-ish and after I do get any sleep I struggle so hard to shake off the brain fog and finally feel alert that my Rx Adderall @ 20mgs  IR doesn't even faze it.....after about 4 hours I finally feel ...maybe 80% awake.

[AOIministrator]

Please stop the pseudoscience shit.

 

This guy shot his brain with drugs, simple as that. 

 

There is no such thing as "GABA problem", dumb undergraduate students say such things. Drugs don't work like that, brains don't work like that. "upregulate the GHB receptors" ... ? Like wtf is wrong with people?

 

 

Do high-intensity cardio 3 hours a day and go lift some weights. Exercise is the most powerful cure to almost any problem in your body. If you can't pull this off then try until you can. If you don't have time, quit your job. If that is possible at all in your country.

 

 

Best miracle drugs 2017 in that order: Dihexa, NSI-189, Epitalon, BPC-157, Bromantane, Selank, Noopept, Piracetam.

 

Magic mushrooms can always help. And taking a long holiday. Like 3-12 month.

 

Just how it works.

Edited by AOIministrator, 04 October 2017 - 11:10 PM.

[Adam Karlovsky]

I think Parnate and Homotaurine are the most promising for upregulating GABA-B receptors.

[Justchill]

That's really depressing after 1,5 years you still have protracted withdrawals. 

I would try to totally abstaining from any kind of gabaergic substance. alchohol, supplements, vitamins, niacinamide... nothing. Even those can prolong withdrawals.

Then I would try optimizing my diet. Eat lots of vegetables, healthy fats and carbs, smoothies whatever. Read into it.

Exercise: the most important. Try to do some sports, different sports everyday. Keep busy.

Relaxation: try to find something that relaxes you: massage, sauna...

Your brain will heal itself, but it will take time... good luck.

 

TLDR: no chemicals for a while!

[BioHacker=Life]

I think Parnate and Homotaurine are the most promising for upregulating GABA-B receptors.

 

This.

 

Flumazenil would be the most proven of all GABA up-regulating drugs for the benzo receptor hands down.

[BioHacker=Life]

Please stop the pseudoscience shit.

 

This guy shot his brain with drugs, simple as that. 

 

There is no such thing as "GABA problem", dumb undergraduate students say such things. Drugs don't work like that, brains don't work like that. "upregulate the GHB receptors" ... ? Like wtf is wrong with people?

 

 

Do high-intensity cardio 3 hours a day and go lift some weights. Exercise is the most powerful cure to almost any problem in your body. If you can't pull this off then try until you can. If you don't have time, quit your job. If that is possible at all in your country.

 

 

Best miracle drugs 2017 in that order: Dihexa, NSI-189, Epitalon, BPC-157, Bromantane, Selank, Noopept, Piracetam.

 

Magic mushrooms can always help. And taking a long holiday. Like 3-12 month.

 

Just how it works.

 

Science fiction can indeed become science fact. We don't currently employ imaging on every neuroreceptor to see what is under or over active and in what regions of the brain. That would be awesome but we ain't there yet. Once we do I am confident some people will have lower or higher receptors and newer more selective treatments, as well as, repurposed drugs like flumazenil will become a new era in neuromedicine...or so i hope.

 

PAWS is a common side effect of agonist or pam use be it GHB, Nicotine, benzos, opioids, etc. This is relatively established it is due to receptor downregulation and few receptors after drug use. And flumenzil has been shown to upregulate receptors and create more and as well clinically reverse the effects of PAWS. So it doesn't take a genius to see the obvious connection. People with hyperinsomina it's a fact they have overactive GABA-A receptors and guess what is an effective treatment??? Flumazenil!

Edited by BioHacker=Life, 20 March 2018 - 07:27 AM.

[normalizing]

what do you think of this; https://www.scienced...001991?via=ihub

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

Does anyone know about neurodegenerative diseases that damage GABA receptors? I've had issues with glutamate toxicity causing ALS-like symptoms (MIPS/MEPS breathing test shows lung strength at 50% normal, arms and legs twitching and cramping). Lots of autonomic dysfunction. THC has grown less effective over the years, as has zopiclone. Only when I take pharmaGABA with zopiclone does it have any effect. I think copper toxicity and maybe prions are a problem. Any way I can heal from this?

EDIT also, other than AOR Active Mind, is there a place to get homotaurine?

Edited by Omega 3 Snake Oil, 29 July 2018 - 12:37 AM.

[dojob]

Cerebrolysin potentiates GABA a receptors, also has some effect on gaba b receptors although the studies are too difficult for me to understand right now.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/8869271

 

I injected a few ampoules after coming off benzos, it did MAJOR healing in very short time.

[normalizing]

its just strange to inject things. especially when you order them from russia, takes time to arrive via mail and heat destroys its essence by the time you get it and from what i read cerebrolysin must be always refrigerated. you took a risk my friend

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

Cerebrolysin potentiates GABA a receptors, also has some effect on gaba b receptors although the studies are too difficult for me to understand right now.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/8869271

 

I injected a few ampoules after coming off benzos, it did MAJOR healing in very short time.

Where to obtain cerebrolysin?

[normalizing]

Where to obtain cerebrolysin?

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q...uy cerebrolysin
 

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

its just strange to inject things. especially when you order them from russia, takes time to arrive via mail and heat destroys its essence by the time you get it and from what i read cerebrolysin must be always refrigerated. you took a risk my friend

I just emailed a Russian supplier and they told me cere. does not need to be refrigerated? This is my main concern when ordering from overseas, can anyone enlighten me here?

[dojob]

From what I know it doenst need to be refigerated. Mine were laying outside the refigerator for a few months and worked fine.

I got mine from Cosmic nootropic. Has got great reviews on Reddit.

Injecting is always a risk, but work sterile and you should be fine.

[Hyperflux]

Everything mentioned in the OP and throughout the thread are great for repairing the GABAergic system but I don't find that they completely attenuate PAWS from something like benzos.

 

For that, black seed oil is king in my experience (and it also reverses the damage done on the GABAergic system). Emoxypine is another good one to cope with PAWS but BSO is still better.

[normalizing]

there is no proof black seed oil does anything to gaba. ive read reports people claiming it does, but thats not scientific proof. really, this whole black seed oil advertisement has gone out of control. i see it in a lot of food stores now claiming it cures all diseases too

[John250]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2896676/

High secretion of GABA was observed after 60 minutes' contact with NS extract at 25 and 250 μg/mL.

This study pointed that NS possibly facilitates the inhibitory activity of the GABAergic system through a competitive agonist action in the benzodiazepine (BZD) site of the GABA receptor as well as the involvement of dopaminergic and noradrenergic system. The confirmed presence of GABA in the methanolic extract could be directly related to its conduct over the GABA receptor and this could explain the potent sedative and depressive effect on CNS as previously reported.

In conclusion, this study suggests a sedative effect of NS methanolic extract by modification of neurotransmitter amino acids release, because the NS extract may induce an important release of GABA and Gly in the cultured neurons medium and therefore, exert an increase in the agonist action over their receptors.

[Hyperflux]

There's hardly a wealth of literature on most nootropics/supplements in general so the best we can do is anecdotes in the biohacking community. 

 

https://www.google.c...chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Hyperflux]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2896676/

High secretion of GABA was observed after 60 minutes' contact with NS extract at 25 and 250 μg/mL.

This study pointed that NS possibly facilitates the inhibitory activity of the GABAergic system through a competitive agonist action in the benzodiazepine (BZD) site of the GABA receptor as well as the involvement of dopaminergic and noradrenergic system. The confirmed presence of GABA in the methanolic extract could be directly related to its conduct over the GABA receptor and this could explain the potent sedative and depressive effect on CNS as previously reported.

In conclusion, this study suggests a sedative effect of NS methanolic extract by modification of neurotransmitter amino acids release, because the NS extract may induce an important release of GABA and Gly in the cultured neurons medium and therefore, exert an increase in the agonist action over their receptors.

 

What dose of BSO would that correspond to in humans approximately?

[John250]

What dose of BSO would that correspond to in humans approximately?

I’m not sure I think there’s a chart out there somewhere that compares animal doses to human doses but who knows.