2284 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

Purpose: to increase mito fission or fusion for specific goals

 

Background: The average cell contains some one thousand mitochondria, each which contains several identical loops of mtDNA. These mitochondria are in a dynamic flux of fission and fusion, which serves to scramble the mtDNA and other mito components. This is important in maintaining a healthy population.

 

See: Mechanisms of Mitochondrial Fission and Fusion and Nicotinamide-induced Mitophagy

 

Supplements for fission: These are NAD+ precursors, and appear to be effective in this sequence: niacin < nicotinamide < NR < (nicotinamide + ribose)

 

Supplement for fusion: C18:0 — stearic acid.

 

See: Regulation of mitochondrial morphology and function by Stearoylation of TfR1 — “We find that animal cells are poised to respond to both increases and decreases in C18:0 levels, with increased C18:0 dietary intake boosting mitochondrial fusion in vivo.”

 

Small mitochondria are less efficient and any problem with the mtDNA genes can be detected by the cell via the membrane potential, which marks the mitochondrion for mitophagy. Thus pushing the balance of fission and fusion in the direction of fission can clean up the population of mitochondria, and can be also used for enhancing exercise.

 

See my thread Exercise Like a Girl for a method of combining fission with exercise to both improve the efficiency of exercise and improve the population of mitochondria. (For some reason this thread is locked, and even I can’t post to it. So anyone wanting to discuss that here is welcome to do so.) 

 

Large mitochondria are more efficient. I’ve notice that using supplements that push mitochondria to smaller size don't work well with C60 (and in fact can be terrible) thus I wondered if pushing it in the other direction might make C60 more effective. I’ve tried this a few times, using C60 (in MCT oil: 1-2 mg C60 and a like amount of hydroxytyrosol), and it does seem to be more effective when combined with several grams of stearic acid. At least, I’m seeing hair regrowth that I haven’t seen since I first tried C60 in olive oil five years ago.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 16 April 2017 - 11:21 PM.

[mpe]

Hair regrowth you say, 'll give it a try.

 

Mike

[Turnbuckle]

An update on Exercise Like a Girl. I'm now doing this two or three times a week and I'm seeing fat being replaced by muscle at a rate I haven't seen in twenty years. And even back then I was working out much harder than I am now. As an addition to the protocol, I now take glutathione precursors 2-3 hours after coming back from the gym. This doesn't seem to hurt the muscle-building, but does eliminate any soreness that might occur later.

[Oakman]

So hydroxytyrosol encourages larger mitochondria and hair growth? And when taken with stearic acid and C60? What's the connection between them??  

 

I've been taking Dr. Stephen Langer's Glutathione Precursor Complex 1 hr before gym for months, I've never really felt any soreness anyway, even before that, so why do you believe glutathione precursors would have that effect?

 

Interesting your "Exercise like a Girl", I've seen people at the gym what could be doing similar, always wondered just what the heck they were up to. However, I'm skeptical that "nicotinamide and Ribose = NR". References?

 

What gets (my) weight coming off, up to 1/2 lb a day, is simply eating light and with 80-100% of calories before 2pm, then nothing to a small salad for 'dinner'. Works like magic, shutting off the digestive process early for => 12 hrs of fasting to burn through fat.

[Turnbuckle]

So hydroxytyrosol encourages larger mitochondria and hair growth? And when taken with stearic acid and C60? What's the connection between them??  

 

I've been taking Dr. Stephen Langer's Glutathione Precursor Complex 1 hr before gym for months, I've never really felt any soreness anyway, even before that, so why do you believe glutathione precursors would have that effect?

 

Interesting your "Exercise like a Girl", I've seen people at the gym what could be doing similar, always wondered just what the heck they were up to. However, I'm skeptical that "nicotinamide and Ribose = NR". References?

 

What gets (my) weight coming off, up to 1/2 lb a day, is simply eating light and with 80-100% of calories before 2pm, then nothing to a small salad for 'dinner'. Works like magic, shutting off the digestive process early for => 12 hrs of fasting to burn through fat.

 

Fusion and C60

I use HT/C60 in MCT oil in place of C60/olive oil, as olive oil is neither consistent nor stable. HT is the most powerful antioxidant of the polyphenols occurring naturally in olive oil, while stearic acid pushes mitochondria into fusion. The only reason I tried this was that I found that C60 + NAD supplements (which push mitochondria into fission) produced negative effects. Thus I suspected that  a supplement promoting fusion over fission would might be superior in combo with C60. One of the effects of C60 in many people appears to be the stimulation of stem cells, and the combination of C60 + fusion does appear to be superior, given the hair regrowth I've seen.

 

Fission and NR (and not antioxidants)

Taking NR precursors enhances the exercise effect, and the resultant soreness (assuming that's a problem) can be stopped by taking glutathione afterward. But if you take glutathione before the gym, you eliminate the advantage of NR+exercise. Any mito antioxidant will have this same problem, and that includes C60. See this link, where weight training was compared in two groups, one taking antioxidants and one not. Both gained muscle size, but those taking antioxidants had weaker muscles. By my hypothesis, this is due to the antioxidants interfering with the cells' mito quality control process (which is enhanced by NR and the resultant mito fission) --

 

But there were subtle but significant differences in their strength gains. Over all, the volunteers who had taken the antioxidants had not added as much strength as the control group. Their muscles were punier, although they had grown in size.

 

 

As for using nicotinamide and ribose in preference to NR, see my Exercise Like a Girl post. In particular my last reference that indicates NR must be cleaved by enzymes to be absorbed. So taking nicotinamide plus a greater than stoichiometric dose of ribose is essentially taking a predigested NR, except you won't have to wait hours for maximum effect on NAD, and more of the nicotinamide will be converted into NR in the body with the excess of ribose.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 18 April 2017 - 03:23 PM.

[pamojja]

 

I’ve tried this a few times, using C60 (in MCT oil: 1-2 mg C60 and a like amount of hydroxytyrosol), and it does seem to be more effective when combined with several grams of stearic acid.

 

Do you use pure stearic acid? Would the high content of cocoa butter, and also chocolate, suffice?

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

I’ve tried this a few times, using C60 (in MCT oil: 1-2 mg C60 and a like amount of hydroxytyrosol), and it does seem to be more effective when combined with several grams of stearic acid.

 

Do you use pure stearic acid? Would the high content of cocoa butter, and also chocolate, suffice?

 

 

My experience is only with my C60 mix taken with five grams of pure stearic acid on an empty stomach. I can't say if that is the optimum dose, and I will try larger doses in future trials. Stearic acid is a free fatty acid while the stearic acid in coca butter is in the form of mixed triglycerides. What difference that would make for this purpose I can't say.  

 

Food grade stearic acid is ridiculously cheap--around $5/lb at Amazon. 

[BigLabRat]

What brand of stearic acid do you use? I looked on Amazon and found two food-grade bulk sources--Duda Energy, and SaaQin.

 

[BigLabRat]

This is fascinating stuff.

 

Can you clarify a few things about your protocol? You say you are now doing niacinamide + ribose + exercise 3 times a week, to promote fission.

 

You also talk about stearic acid to promote fusion. If one were to use stearic acid for this purpose, how would you cycle between the days of NR/exercise and stearic acid use? It sounds as if doing them too close together would defeat the purpose of both.

 

(I admit I'm not terribly excited about trying C60 at this time.)

 

And where does hydroxytyrosol fit in to this program?

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

This is fascinating stuff.

 

Can you clarify a few things about your protocol? You say you are now doing niacinamide + ribose + exercise 3 times a week, to promote fission.

 

You also talk about stearic acid to promote fusion. If one were to use stearic acid for this purpose, how would you cycle between the days of NR/exercise and stearic acid use? It sounds as if doing them too close together would defeat the purpose of both.

 

(I admit I'm not terribly excited about trying C60 at this time.)

 

And where does hydroxytyrosol fit in to this program?

 

 

Right now I'm doing one day of fission followed by two days of fusion, then repeating it. I'm not taking any C60/HT/MCT at this time, as I expect C60 with its potentially long half-life will interfere with mito QC.

 

For fission, my dose is 2g NAM + 5g ribose (equivalent to >4g NR), followed an hour later by the gym. No antioxidants.

For fusion, I'm using 3-5g food grade stearic acid, followed an hour later by 20mg PQQ. I take antioxidants, but nothing with long half-lives.

Between fission and fusion I'm allowing 24-30 hours.

[BigLabRat]

Thanks for the prompt answer. I'm going to give something like this a try (but starting at lower doses).

 

I do some HIIT (high-intensity interval training), which is supposed to result in mitochodrial proliferation. From the the fact that you take PQQ on your 'fusion' days, I would assume those would be the days for HIIT?

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

Thanks for the prompt answer. I'm going to give something like this a try (but starting at lower doses).

 

I do some HIIT (high-intensity interval training), which is supposed to result in mitochodrial proliferation. From the the fact that you take PQQ on your 'fusion' days, I would assume those would be the days for HIIT?

 

 

Actually, this is the sort of thing I'm trying to replace. HIIT  jacks up mitochondrial metabolism, thus making dysfunctional mitochondria stand out so they can be tagged for mitophagy. Fission + exercise should do the same thing, but without all the work. In any case, fission + HIIT might work, though I expect it will be hard to do it at the same level, but I wouldn't combine fusion with HIIT, as that's going in the wrong direction. Fissioned mitochondria of minimal size (with only one loop of mtDNA) will be easiest for the cell to identify. If even one of the 37 genes is dysfunctional, the mitochondria will be dysfunctional as all 37 genes are essential. With two or more loops in a mitochondria, the likelihood of them all having the same defective gene is small, and thus the mitochondria manages to function and is not slated for mitophagy.

[Heisok]

Hi Turnbuckle and lab rats, big and small .

 

From reading your posts here and in a SFN/NR thread, I decided I would test the fission/fusion process on myself by restarting some resistance type interval training which I have not been doing lately, many months. Something had stuck with me from your SFN comments of hyperfusion.    I have a theory, but I am not the sharpest science reader. I quoted  a couple small sections from the studies you linked to about Sulphorophane induced hyperfusion, and Stearic Acid promoted fusion. The promoting of fusion is where my idea came in. If I read correctly, SFN does not directly alter fusion, but it inhibits fission. Would taking it with Stearic Acid on the fusion days possibly increase results if it acts differently than Stearic Acid?

 

I am trying to decide what my experiment will be. I had originally planned continuing daily N.R., but whoops that would defeat the whole protocol. Would it benefit or detract from my test of myself if I continue with N.R. only on the 3 days which I practice the Nicotinamide+D-Ribose fission? I am familiar with D-Ribose's effect on me, and will be using 5 gms with 1 gm of Nicotinamide. Just an aside, that I have been taking N.R. since LifeExtension started promoting it in 2014  at a dose of 100 mg daily. I have been taking 375 mg in the AM  for the last several months, and higher doses for many months prior.

 

 

Stearic Acid: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4561519/

 

"We identify here the metabolite stearic acid (C18:0) and Transferrin Receptor (TfR1) as mitochondrial regulators. We elucidate a signaling pathway whereby C18:0 stearoylates TfR1, thereby inhibiting its activation of JNK signaling. This leads to reduced ubiquitination of mitofusin via HUWE1, thereby promoting mitochondrial fusion and function. We find that animal cells are poised to respond to both increases and decreases in C18:0 levels, with increased C18:0 dietary intake boosting mitochondrial fusion in vivo. Intriguingly, dietary C18:0 supplementation can counteract the mitochondrial dysfunction caused by genetic defects such as loss of the Parkinsons genes Pink or Parkin."

 

Sulforophane: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5126150/

 

"These results indicate that SFN treatment causes mitochondrial fusion independent of the canonical KEAP1-Nrf2-ARE pathway and led us to interrogate whether SFN directly affects components of the mitochondrial fission or fusion machinery.

In summary, we have identified a novel, cytoprotective function for the clinically-relevant compound SFN. In addition to activating the master anti-oxidant transcription factor Nrf2, SFN promotes mitochondrial and peroxisomal fusion, and this effect is independent of Nrf2. The mechanism underlying this phenomenon involves a reduction in the function of the GTPase Drp1, the primary mediator of mitochondrial and peroxisomal fission. A major consequence of SFN-mediated mitochondrial fusion is that cells become resistant to the toxic effects of the apoptosis inducer staurosporine. This additional cytoprotective action of SFN could be of particular clinical utility in the numerous neurodegenerative diseases for which age is the leading risk factor (e.g., Parkinson's Disease, Alzheimer's Disease, Age-related Macular Degeneration) as these maladies have been associated with apoptosis and reduced levels and/or dysregulation of Nrf2 [35], [36], [48]. Together, these data demonstrate that the cytoprotective properties of SFN extend beyond activation of the KEAP1-Nrf2-ARE system and warrant further studies given the current use of this agent in multiple clinical trials."
 

[Turnbuckle]

If I read correctly, SFN does not directly alter fusion, but it inhibits fission. Would taking it with Stearic Acid on the fusion days possibly increase results if it acts differently than Stearic Acid?

 

 

That is a very good idea. My expectation is that it would be hard to tell the difference, since any fusion at all ought to mask dysfunctional mtDNA, but then the stearic acid paper doesn't mention its effect on peroxisomes, which could certainly affect exercise performance.

[Turnbuckle]

Another trial of fusion subsequent to fission, this time adding 60 mg sulforaphane glucosinolate (from 2 caps of BroccoMax, said to yield 8 mg sulforaphane per cap in vitro). Adding this to the stearic acid + PQQ (as in post #10) definitely seemed to enhance my energy level. I will continue with one day of fission/gym, one of fusion + PQQ + sulforaphane, and a third day with no fission or fusion supplements.

[zorba990]

I can verify that the below got me sweating quite profusely before my workout even started.   So there is something to it definitely.  Too early to tell body / strength effects -- I do HIT.

 

"For fission, my dose is 2g NAM + 5g ribose (equivalent to >4g NR), followed an hour later by the gym. No antioxidants."

 

So fusion days would be long slow walk or other such exercise?  Or complete recovery day?   

Stearic Acid seems cheap enough https://www.amazon.c...e/dp/B0050LKJ6Y

how is it on digestion?   

 

 

Edited by zorba990, 02 May 2017 - 09:44 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

So fusion days would be long slow walk or other such exercise?  Or complete recovery day?   

how is it on digestion?  

 

 

 

 

I've been hiking for miles in a state park on fusion days. I was itching to run that distance, but a knee injury is keeping me from it. Running on fission days might be difficult (haven't tried it), but fission is great in the gym, using weights that are about half of what I could lift normally, and maybe a third of what I could lift with C60. It's strength through weakness. 

 

As for stearic acid and digestion, no problem at all. I take it on an empty stomach with water.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 02 May 2017 - 10:45 PM.

[zorba990]

One tsp stearic acid in water this am no issues so far.

It appears sodium butyrate supports fusion so I will take it on the fusion days only for a while.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24177748
"Sodium butyrate induces DRP1-mediated mitochondrial fusion and apoptosis in human colorectal cancer cells.
Tailor D1, Hahm ER2, Kale RK3, Singh SV2, Singh RP4.
Author information
Abstract
Sodium butyrate (NaBt) is the byproduct of anaerobic microbial fermentation inside the gastro-intestinal tract that could reach up to 20mM, and has been shown to inhibit the growth of various cancers. Herein, we evaluated its effect on mitochondrial fusion and associated induction of apoptosis in colorectal cancer cells (CRC). NaBt treatment at physiological (1-5mM) concentrations for 12 and 24h decreased the cell viability and induced G2-M phase cell cycle arrest in HCT116 (12h) and SW480 human CRC cells. This cell cycle arrest was associated with mitochondria-mediated apoptosis accompanied by a decrease in survivin and Bcl-2 expression, and generation of reactive oxygen species (ROS). Furthermore, NaBt treatment resulted in a significant decrease in the mitochondrial mass which is an indicator of mitochondrial fusion. Level of dynamin-related protein 1 (DRP1), a key regulator of mitochondrial fission and fusion where its up-regulation correlates with fission, was found to be decreased in CRC cells. Further, at early treatment time, DRP1 down-regulation was noticed in mitochondria which later became drastically reduced in both mitochondria as well as cytosol. DRP1 is activated by cyclin B1-CDK1 complex by its ser616 phosphorylation in which both cyclin B1-CDK1 complex and phospho-DRP1 (ser616) were strongly reduced by NaBt treatment. DRP1 was observed to be regulated by apoptosis as pan-caspase inhibitor showing rescue from NaBt-induced apoptosis also caused the reversal of DRP1 to the normal level as in control proliferating cells. Together, these findings suggest that NaBt can modulate mitochondrial fission and fusion by regulating the level of DRP1 and induce cell cycle arrest and apoptosis in human CRC cells."

[Turnbuckle]

One tsp stearic acid in water this am no issues so far.
 

 

 

I've doubled my fusion dose from 5g to 10g stearic acid, and the results seem to be a little better. 5g was probably low to begin with, as the mean daily dietary intake for men is just over 8g. So this higher level is not out of line, especially as stearic acid seems to be particularly safe. It is neutral to cholesterol and is oxidized into oleic acid in the body. Not to choke on this much dry powder, I will be blending it into fruit juice in the future.

 

Mean stearic acid intake is 5.7 g per day (2.3% of calories) for women and 8.2 g per day (2.8% of calories) for men, 20 years of age and older, based on data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES), 2001-2002.16 Stearic acid accounts for approximately 18% to 26% of saturated fatty acid intake. 

 

http://www.soyconnec...onal-Properties

 

[Valijon]

Do you find taking niacinamide plus ribose as effective as commercial NR?

[Turnbuckle]

Do you find taking niacinamide plus ribose as effective as commercial NR?

 

 

It's more effective. For NAD+, supplements appear to be effective in the following sequence: nicotinic acid < nicotinamide < NR < nicotinamide + ribose

 

Note that nicotinamide is the same as niacinamide, and nicotinic acid is the same as niacin.

 

Nicotinamide + a greater than stoichiometric  dose of ribose should be more effective than NR, as NR must be enzymatically broken down into nicotinamide + ribose to be absorbed. Since some ribose will be lost, not all will be recombined, and there is a several hour delay before it reaches its maximum effect for that same reason. Thus the 2 g nicotinamide + 5 g ribose dose I'm using should be equivalent to > 4 g NR.

 

See the following paper--

 

 

Perfused or intact intestine rapidly hydrolyzed NMN to nicotinamide riboside, which accumulated, but was not absorbed. It was slowly cleaved by an enzyme associated with the mucosal cells to nicotinamide, which was the major if not the only labeled compound absorbed.

 

http://nadh.wiki/wp-...-of-the-Rat.pdf

 

 

[Valijon]

Thank you for this information. I know where my money will and won't be going from now on!

[zorba990]

One tsp stearic acid in water this am no issues so far.

I've doubled my fusion dose from 5g to 10g stearic acid, and the results seem to be a little better. 5g was probably low to begin with, as the mean daily dietary intake for men is just over 8g. So this higher level is not out of line, especially as stearic acid seems to be particularly safe. It is neutral to cholesterol and is oxidized into oleic acid in the body. Not to choke on this much dry powder, I will be blending it into fruit juice in the future.

Mean stearic acid intake is 5.7 g per day (2.3% of calories) for women and 8.2 g per day (2.8% of calories) for men, 20 years of age and older, based on data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES), 2001-2002.16 Stearic acid accounts for approximately 18% to 26% of saturated fatty acid intake.

http://www.soyconnec...onal-Properties

It seems it mixes well enough with greek yogurt and a bit of cocoa powder. At least the crunch is easily ignored. It's neutral compared to things like chondroitin powder or monolaurin pellets (yuck).

[Richard McGee]

I've been doing intermittent fasting, usually a 24-hour fast on an occasional basis. Does fasting interact in a negative way with the fission/fusion process? And should I schedule fasts to coincide with either fission or fusion?

 

One can appreciate that the life cycle of mitochondria would be compromised if mitochondrial fusion or fission were disabled to allow for bioenergetic adaptation. Therefore, under certain nutrient environments, bioenergetic adaptation and quality control might represent conflicting tasks.

 

This leads me to wonder if I should just avoid fasting while attempting the fission/fusion protocol.

[Turnbuckle]

I've been doing intermittent fasting, usually a 24-hour fast on an occasional basis. Does fasting interact in a negative way with the fission/fusion process? And should I schedule fasts to coincide with either fission or fusion?

 

One can appreciate that the life cycle of mitochondria would be compromised if mitochondrial fusion or fission were disabled to allow for bioenergetic adaptation. Therefore, under certain nutrient environments, bioenergetic adaptation and quality control might represent conflicting tasks.

 

This leads me to wonder if I should just avoid fasting while attempting the fission/fusion protocol.

 

 

I'd combine fasting with NR-fission, as fasting and fission are both associated with mitophagy. From your link--

 

it is likely that caloric restriction (or proper fed/fasting cycles) would promote a bioenergetic adaptation and a change in mitochondrial dynamics, permitting the most efficient mitochondrial quality control mechanisms. 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 09 May 2017 - 08:05 PM.

[Fafner55]

No doubt fasting affects mitochondrial dynamics, and its relationship with mitophagy is complex.

 

"Time-dependent differential effects of fasting on cardiac autophagy and mitophagy" (2016) http://www.fasebj.org/content/30/1_Supplement/1015.1

Results A 24-hour fasting increased mitophagy flux as demonstrated by a 44.2% increase in the number of mitophagy events in heart sections. The average size of mitophagy events within studied myocytes increased by 13.4%. Western blot analysis showed an increase in LC3-II protein levels in both total cardiac tissue lysates and the mitochondrial fractions, suggesting that autophagy and mitophagy were enhanced in parallel. However, after 48 hours of starvation, mitophagy events decreased by 50.1% compared to events at 24 hours of fasting and decreased by 28% compared to the control fed animals. The average area of each mitophagy event after 48 hours of fasting decreased by 39.9% compared to that at 24 hours and decreased by 31.9% compared to control. Interestingly, Western Blot analysis showed that LC3-II protein levels were increased in the total cardiac tissue lysates but reduced in the mitochondrial fractions, suggesting that the 48-hour fasting enhanced general autophagy but inhibited mitophagy.

[Richard McGee]

Time-dependent differential effects of fasting on cardiac autophagy and mitophagy" (2016) http://www.fasebj.org/content/30/1_Supplement/1015.1

Results A 24-hour fasting increased mitophagy flux as demonstrated by a 44.2% increase in the number of mitophagy events in heart sections. The average size of mitophagy events within studied myocytes increased by 13.4%. Western blot analysis showed an increase in LC3-II protein levels in both total cardiac tissue lysates and the mitochondrial fractions, suggesting that autophagy and mitophagy were enhanced in parallel. However, after 48 hours of starvation, mitophagy events decreased by 50.1% compared to events at 24 hours of fasting and decreased by 28% compared to the control fed animals. The average area of each mitophagy event after 48 hours of fasting decreased by 39.9% compared to that at 24 hours and decreased by 31.9% compared to control. Interestingly, Western Blot analysis showed that LC3-II protein levels were increased in the total cardiac tissue lysates but reduced in the mitochondrial fractions, suggesting that the 48-hour fasting enhanced general autophagy but inhibited mitophagy.

 

 

24 hours of fasting it is, then 

 

Day 1 FISSION: 2gm NAM + 5gm Ribose. Exercise + glutathione afterword. 24 hour fasting (optional, once a week). No antioxidants

Day 2 REST

Day 3 and 4 FUSION: 5 -10gm Stearic Acid + 20mg PQQ 1 hour later + 2 capsules BroccoMax

Day 5, 6, and 7 REST

 

I'd like to follow this protocol for 2 weeks and pause to re-evaluate.

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

A side effect of taking Broccoli extract during the fusion days--it dramatically dropped my BP. My uncorrected systolic BP runs 160-200, but with an alpha blocker it drops to 135. With Broccoli sprout extract* it dropped to 95--the lowest I've recorded in many years, and I check it every day. So I've cut back on the alpha blocker by a factor of 2-4 on fusion days. Previous research speculates that the lowered BP could be due to an epigenetic effect (in which case it could be permanent). We'll see--

 

Sulforaphane administration rectified pathological abnormalities in SHRSP kidneys and significantly improved blood pressure. This was associated with normalization of global kidney DNA methylation suggesting that DNA methylation could be associated with hypertension.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22052072

 

 

*This was 1g of Vitacost brand, taken with 10g stearic acid, 400mg ALA, and 20mg PQQ.

[Fafner55]

A side effect of taking Broccoli extract during the fusion days--it dramatically dropped my BP. My uncorrected systolic BP runs 160-200, but with an alpha blocker it drops to 135. With Broccoli sprout extract* it dropped to 95--the lowest I've recorded in many years, and I check it every day. So I've cut back on the alpha blocker by a factor of 2-4 on fusion days. Previous research speculates that the lowered BP could be due to an epigenetic effect (in which case it could be permanent). We'll see--

 

Sulforaphane administration rectified pathological abnormalities in SHRSP kidneys and significantly improved blood pressure. This was associated with normalization of global kidney DNA methylation suggesting that DNA methylation could be associated with hypertension.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22052072

 

 

*This was 1g of Vitacost brand, taken with 10g stearic acid, 400mg ALA, and 20mg PQQ.

 

How long did you take Broccoli extract before you saw this effect?

[Turnbuckle]

 

A side effect of taking Broccoli extract during the fusion days--it dramatically dropped my BP. My uncorrected systolic BP runs 160-200, but with an alpha blocker it drops to 135. With Broccoli sprout extract* it dropped to 95--the lowest I've recorded in many years, and I check it every day. So I've cut back on the alpha blocker by a factor of 2-4 on fusion days. Previous research speculates that the lowered BP could be due to an epigenetic effect (in which case it could be permanent). We'll see--

 

Sulforaphane administration rectified pathological abnormalities in SHRSP kidneys and significantly improved blood pressure. This was associated with normalization of global kidney DNA methylation suggesting that DNA methylation could be associated with hypertension.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22052072

 

 

*This was 1g of Vitacost brand, taken with 10g stearic acid, 400mg ALA, and 20mg PQQ.

 

How long did you take Broccoli extract before you saw this effect?

 

 

 

The first time I took broccoli sprout extract I noted no such effect. But the bottle was years old and the caps didn't look right so I bought another from Amazon and tried it again on the next fission/fusion cycle. On the day after fission, I did my normal fusion routine (adding ALA and the new broccoli extract). I had a hell of a time staying awake and finally checked my BP, finding it 40 points lower than usual. This was just a few hours after taking it, but when exactly that began I can't say.