2278 replies to this topic

[zorba990]

Remove

Edited by zorba990, 08 June 2017 - 02:41 AM.

[zorba990]

Remove

Edited by zorba990, 08 June 2017 - 02:42 AM.

[zorba990]

Any thoughts about topical niacinamide and ribose, as skin / scalp treatment?

[hsibai]

Is sodium ascorbate an equally good reducing agent? I don't know, but probably.

As my 4-day fission experiment, I started feeling a little weird on day 3, so I chickened out and ended the experiment on the afternoon of the 3rd day with stearic acid.

So this is my present protocol:

2-3 days of N+R+exercise in the morning, then ascorbic acid in the late afternoon, + stearic acid on the last afternoon only.
A blank day with PQQ.

Turnbuckle,
Thanks for the updates. I think we are nearing the optimum version of this protocol thanks to you.
I think I will skip Stearic Acid and opt for a significant sausage omelet cooked in butter for Dinner. A T-bone with butter might also do.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[hotbit]

Any thoughts about topical niacinamide and ribose, as skin / scalp treatment?

Yesterday I thought about the same. R might be an interesting addition to the already tested treatment.

[lost69]

 

in your opinion is there a way to mix your protocol to clear bad mitochondria with C60, NR, GDF11?

 

 

 

i am very interested because i can feel power going away even stopping C60,mitoQ or NR even for few days...so i m definitely buiding also bad mitochondria.

 

what i was thinking is alternate weeks:

one week of your protocol and no other supp but gdf11

one week few days a week C60, NR every day at 500mg,mito q every day, Gdf11 every day at the correct low dose, weak telomerase activators every day

 

to your opinion and experience...does this "weekly schedule" make sense?

 

 

IMO, C60 is not good with this protocol and I'm not taking it at present for that reason. I'm not even taking it as you suggest, as I've found the N+R protocol to be too good by itself. I would also not take MitoQ or any other anti-oxidant with the fission/exercise phase, though I expect it would be okay during the fusion phase. Telomerase activators might be okay, depending on what they are. With GDF11, I have no idea. As for NR, that's the same as N+R, as NR has to be digested back to N+R before it can be absorbed (at least in rats, as no human data has been published). Thus 2g of N and 2g (or more) of R should be equivalent to 4g of NR. The major difference is that N+R will be much faster acting.

 

 

thank you very much, is your N+R 2g+2g dose for daily use just like we use NR or just for the days of fission?

[Turnbuckle]

 

Thanks for the updates. I think we are nearing the optimum version of this protocol thanks to you.

 

 

 

I'm still playing around with it, and in the end it will only be something for me. How it works for anyone else is still unknown, as I haven't seen any member reports on it. The NR (Niagen) reports on Amazon are typically at much lower doses and the response has been generally good, but there are an unusual number of one star reviews, and a number of those report fatigue after a week or so. Likely the result of fission with no fusion.

 

As for stearic acid, I still plan to use it, but keeping in mind its long half life. In fact, half life should be a consideration for any supplement used in this protocol to avoid interference between fission and fusion--

 

Ascorbic acid -- 1/2 hour half life (biphasic--small reserves are kept for a very long time)

Ribose -- 1/2 hour

TMG -- 14 hour 

Stearic acid -- 17 hours

Sulforaphane -- 2-3 hours

Nicotinic acid -- 1 hour

Nicotinamide -- 4-5 hours

Nicotinamide riboside chloride (aka Niagen) -- 4 hours

NAD+ -- can be raised for a very long time according to a self-trial by the promoter of Niagen. The half life of the increase is perhaps >24 hours, though the ratio NAD+/NADH was not reported, which is the important factor in fission.

 

-----------------------

References: 

Ascorbic acid -- http://www.livonlabs...y_Published.pdf

Ribose -- http://www.naturafou...fie/Ribose.html

TMG (betaine) -- https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/12534635

Stearic acid -- (in rats) http://www.jlr.org/c...t/48/1/252.full

Sulforaphane -- https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/18950181

Nicotinic acid and nicotinamide -- http://www.jbc.org/c...0/2367.full.pdf

Nicotinamide riboside chloride -- email from the sales manager at the Niagen manufacturer to a member here: http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=652288

NAD+ -- See Fig 2b of the following article: https://www.nature.c...les/ncomms12948

 

On the latter reference, first note that the caption is wrong. NC Cl should be NR Cl. Also note that the measured NAD+ doesn't begin to rise for about 5 hours, in line with the experiment in rats that showed NR wasn't absorbed until broken down, after which some of it is evidently reconstituted.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 08 June 2017 - 12:36 PM.

[hsibai]

Is sodium ascorbate an equally good reducing agent? I don't know, but probably.

As my 4-day fission experiment, I started feeling a little weird on day 3, so I chickened out and ended the experiment on the afternoon of the 3rd day with stearic acid.

So this is my present protocol:

2-3 days of N+R+exercise in the morning, then ascorbic acid in the late afternoon, + stearic acid on the last afternoon only.
A blank day with PQQ.

Have you dropped Broccomax?

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[lost69]

 

 

in your opinion is there a way to mix your protocol to clear bad mitochondria with C60, NR, GDF11?

 

 

 

i am very interested because i can feel power going away even stopping C60,mitoQ or NR even for few days...so i m definitely buiding also bad mitochondria.

 

what i was thinking is alternate weeks:

one week of your protocol and no other supp but gdf11

one week few days a week C60, NR every day at 500mg,mito q every day, Gdf11 every day at the correct low dose, weak telomerase activators every day

 

to your opinion and experience...does this "weekly schedule" make sense?

 

 

IMO, C60 is not good with this protocol and I'm not taking it at present for that reason. I'm not even taking it as you suggest, as I've found the N+R protocol to be too good by itself. I would also not take MitoQ or any other anti-oxidant with the fission/exercise phase, though I expect it would be okay during the fusion phase. Telomerase activators might be okay, depending on what they are. With GDF11, I have no idea. As for NR, that's the same as N+R, as NR has to be digested back to N+R before it can be absorbed (at least in rats, as no human data has been published). Thus 2g of N and 2g (or more) of R should be equivalent to 4g of NR. The major difference is that N+R will be much faster acting.

 

 

thank you very much, is your N+R 2g+2g dose for daily use just like we use NR or just for the days of fission?

 

 

i mean will we reach a point of balance when these doses/schedule is not needed anymore and lower doses/go to different schedule?

[RWhigham]

Just finished two rounds of  day1-fission day2-fusion protocol.

 

This morning I went for a very fast 5 mile walk, thinking to take it easy.

During the walk my Fitbit registered a 30 minutes period of 170-180 bpm and 10.7 kcal/min.

While these numbers seem high I felt comfortable the whole time.

My HR dropped to 75 bpm immediately at the walk's conclusion.

 

10.7 kcal/min takes 10.7/5 = 2.14 L/min of oxygen  (2140 mL/min). I weigh 59 kg

(2140 mL/min) divided by 59 kg equals 36.27 mL/kg-min.

On the Max VO2 Chart  36.27 is very nearly excellent for age 65+.  (I'm 78)

 

My Fitbit history does not show anywhere near this HR and kcal burn rate before.

It appears that mitochondrial rejuvenation may have occurred.

 

Thanks Turnbuckle.

Edited by RWhigham, 12 June 2017 - 10:57 PM.

[hsibai]

My N+R is on the way so for now I am using NR. Tried a dose of 333 mg x 4 with calorie restriction (water and coffee mostly) and I must say I was amazed at my energy level throughout the day. By 7:00pm I still felt energetic and the usual, "it's been a long day", feeling just wasn't there. Thinking I may have used a high dose, I went to 3 capsules (1000mg total) the following day and the experience was nearly similar.

 

For dinner I did eat butter and take 2-3 grams of Ascorbic Acid. It is quite acidic at this dose so best to take with some food. Planing to add Sulfuraphane and TMG as soon as they arrive. I am thinking to do this protocol 3 consecutive days a week. I wonder if there is another compatible / complementing protocol I can use on the other days.

 

I realize there is no protocol that works the same way for everyone and therefore one must reasonably experiment to arrive at what works best. However, this thread, and others, provide the idea / concept and a starting point for us. Many thanks for Turnbuckle for an excellent topic. (would be nice to learn what your protocol has evolved to by now).

[Shai Hulud]

Excellent and very interesting topic, Turnbuckle!

 

1) Regarding fusion and stearic acid: Is it possible that the important point isn't stearic acid itself but a (saturated?) long chain fatty acid? Any differences with (Acetyl-)Carnitine use?

 

2) I haven't had time to read into it, but if Melatonin helps with fusion, I'd would suspect that Cortisol (or something else with a complementary diurnal rhythm compared to Melatonin) has some influence on fission. I think I have read NAD+ is low in mornings you can't get out of bed and it's supplementation will give you the needed energy in this moment. As cortisol spikes in healthy people after waking up, but is blunted in others (distressed etc.), I'd suspect Niacin/Niacin amide synthesis is coupled to Cortisol levels).

 

3) Are you sure Niacin amide uses up methyl groups? I was under the impression that's only the case with Nicotinic acid.

 

[Turnbuckle]

 

1) Regarding fusion and stearic acid: Is it possible that the important point isn't stearic acid itself but a (saturated?) long chain fatty acid? Any differences with (Acetyl-)Carnitine use?

 

3) Are you sure Niacin amide uses up methyl groups? I was under the impression that's only the case with Nicotinic acid.

 

Stearic acid is special case. It acts as a signaling molecule for fusion, while other fatty acids do not. From the OP: See: Regulation of mitochondrial morphology and function by Stearoylation of TfR1 — “We find that animal cells are poised to respond to both increases and decreases in C18:0 levels, with increased C18:0 dietary intake boosting mitochondrial fusion in vivo.” Taking it in foods is by no mean a sure thing, as other fatty acids could have the opposite effect.

 

Sulforaphane works about equally well by a different mechanism and has a much shorter half life. From my personal use, the effects of sulforaphane + stearic acid appear to be additive.

 

Nicotinamide does indeed use up methyl groups. A primary metabolite is 1-methylnicotinamide. 

 

Have you dropped Broccomax?

 

 

 

No. It is very useful. See above.

 

(would be nice to learn what your protocol has evolved to by now).

 

 

With a simple tweak of the protocol I've discovered what may be an atomic bomb for mitochondria, creating total fission. It appears to be far more powerful (possibly even dangerously powerful). I will report on this when I have more experience with it. 

[RWhigham]

The first time I did fission, I took the following stack (first thing in the morning after not eating since noon the previous lunch)

I thought it was too powerful.

     I was too weak to exercise much.

     I felt sick and slept a lot. 

     Wife said I looked sick.

     I didn't recover fully for 48 hours

 

Fission_stack     (too strong for me,  not recommended)

  Nicotinamide 4 cap 2g  & ribose 5g         + NAD+ -> +fission 

  Dynveo_GSC 1 cap 200mg                     + NAD+ -> +fission

  Niagen_NR 1 cap 200mg                        + NAD+ -> +fission

  Pterostilbene 1 cap 100mg                      + NAD+ -> +fission

  LEF Pomegranate 5 tablets  (1g  Ellagic acid)     -> +mitophagy

  Resveratrol 5 cap 500mg                        +SIRT1 -> fission

  DHEA 3 tab 75mg  -  prevent resveratrol side-effects

 

Second fission (4 days later) I did as follows:

    8  AM    2g NAM & 5 g ribose - initiate fission

    9  AM    Exercise  - enhance fission   (Exercise was intense - a 1 hour workout I learned from the  book "Body by Science")

   11 AM    Ceylon Cinnamon 1/2 tsp & LEF Pomegranate 2 tablets - promote mitophagy

   10 PM    Melatonin 20 mg -  initiate fusion at bedtime

Next morning 

   8  AM    2g vit-C crystals & 10g stearic acid         NAD+ -> NADH  &  +fusion

   9  AM    I went for a walk as described in post #102

 

 

Edited by RWhigham, 13 June 2017 - 03:53 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

The first time I did fission, I took the following stack (first thing in the morning after not eating since noon the previous lunch)

I thought it was too powerful.

     I was too weak to exercise much.

     I felt sick and slept a lot. 

     Wife said I looked sick.

     I didn't recover fully for 48 hours

 

 

 

 

Absolutely this is a strong dose, even without the extras you added, and I don't advise starting with this much unless you have been doing NR for some time. Older people and those with mito damage especially should start with a lighter dose as stuffing too many mitochondria into lysosomes at one time can cause a problem. Those with mito diseases of genetic origin ought to be especially careful. And while this protocol is strong, the protocol I mentioned but haven't posted yet is about ten times stronger.

 

There's no reason to do everything at once, and it could be a definite negative in you have cells with just a few undamaged mtDNA. 

 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 13 June 2017 - 04:35 PM.

[Richard McGee]

The fission part of the protocol hasn't bothered me so far, other than a feeling of sleepiness and lethargy that hits early in the evening. For my particular situation, limiting fission to two consecutive days (in a week-long cycle) has kept me from burning out. I'm 67, and had a MI at age 59. With the resulting heart damage, my ejection fraction has hovered around 40%. I've long struggled to make any improvement in my aerobic capacity. It is only in the last month that I have suddenly doubled the duration of aerobic activity I can sustain. This is, at least for me, an unprecedented improvement. 

 

Just remember, if you're risk averse (like me), taking it slow and gauging your body's reaction is always a good plan.

[Turnbuckle]

The following “atomic protocol” may completely fission mitochondria. That is not proven, but the protocol is very strong and it’s not for anyone who hasn’t done the N+R fission/fusion protocol for a few weeks. Also it may only work once, as it may be getting rid of most defective mitochondria—not something you want to do in one session if you have a massive load of them.

 

 

The atomic protocol—

 

T zero — 2g nicotinamide, 5g ribose

T zero + 30 minutes — 1g TMG, 4g lysine

T zero + 60 minutes — gym weight machines 

 

The only change to the fission routine I used previously was the addition of the doses of TMG and lysine (shown in bold). I had been taking these, but in the afternoon.

 

At first I felt normal, though I was able to lift about 1/3 less weight than normal for N+R. Then things began to change. As hours passed I noticed a strong feeling of being drugged. I slept for 14 hours a day for two days (as compared to 6 normally), and my systolic pressure was running 90-95—this without dosing any BP drugs except for the morning of the first day. By evening of the third day, I consumed 5g stearic acid in oatmeal, and that got rid of half the drugged feeling. An hour later I took 1g of broccoli extract, and that more or less got rid of the rest. My BP began to rise, and by the next day it was 115/75 with no BP meds. The elimination of the drugged feeling with the fusion supplements suggests that it came from an unusual level of fission.

 

Note: Previously my BP was 180+ uncorrected and 130-140 corrected with an alpha-blocker.

 

For a second trial I tried all these ingredients in one dose, and got nothing described above. It wasn’t even as good as N+R. For a third trial I repeated the first trial exactly (with the thirty minute gap), and got more than in the second trial, but nothing like the first trial. From these results, I suspect that most defective mitochondria were eliminated during those 3 days. My BP seems to be far more in control now, though not totally. It remains to be seen if BP can be decreased permanently, but there is a suggestion of it. Certainly hypertension has been correlated with mitochondrial dysfunction. See Fig 2B in this paper—Mitochondrial Dysfunction in the Hypertensive Rat Brain -- Respiratory Complexes Exhibit Assembly Defects in Hypertension

 

We have found that the brains of hypertensive rats exhibit cellular energetic defects and mitochondrial dysfunction. Proteins involved in central metabolic processes have decreased abundance. Brain respiratory complexes exhibit previously unknown assembly defects. The ensuing mitochondrial dysfunction affects the brain stem and could, thus, impact the systemic regulation of blood pressure and, thereby, the development and progression of hypertension.

 

 

 

 

 

[Andey]

 

The following “atomic protocol” may completely fission mitochondria. That is not proven, but the protocol is very strong and it’s not for anyone who hasn’t done the N+R fission/fusion protocol for a few weeks. Also it may only work once, as it may be getting rid of most defective mitochondria—not something you want to do in one session if you have a massive load of them.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you !

So...do you think that limiting factor befor was a lack of methyl groups ?

1 gr TMG doesnt look like much, folks that take Betaine HCL for digestive issues probably exceeds that. May be the right timing is crucial though.

Or is it lysine ?

What was your rationale behind it at a time ?

Edited by Andey, 14 June 2017 - 02:50 PM.

[Shai Hulud]

Wow, I'm definitely going to try this some weeks from now.

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

The following “atomic protocol” may completely fission mitochondria. That is not proven, but the protocol is very strong and it’s not for anyone who hasn’t done the N+R fission/fusion protocol for a few weeks. Also it may only work once, as it may be getting rid of most defective mitochondria—not something you want to do in one session if you have a massive load of them.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you !

So...do you think that limiting factor befor was a lack of methyl groups ?

1 gr TMG doesnt look like much, folks that take Betaine HCL for digestive issues probably exceeds that. May be the right timing is crucial though.

Or is it lysine ?

What was your rationale behind it at a time ?

 

 

 

I was already taking TMG and lysine, as it is used in factory farming to muscle up beef. But I decided to move it to examine the possible effect of methylnicotinamide. This metabolite is difficult to study as it doesn't penetrate the cell wall readily, however, if assembled inside the cell, it should be trapped there for quite a while. As for the lysine, I doubt if that contributed in any meaningful degree, but it can't be ruled out.

[Shai Hulud]

Have you ever had any cognitive /neuropsychiatric problems? I wonder how it works in non-muscle tissue, including CNS

[hsibai]

The following “atomic protocol” may completely fission mitochondria. That is not proven, but the protocol is very strong and it’s not for anyone who hasn’t done the N+R fission/fusion protocol for a few weeks. Also it may only work once, as it may be getting rid of most defective mitochondria—not something you want to do in one session if you have a massive load of them.


The atomic protocol—

T zero — 2g nicotinamide, 5g ribose
T zero + 30 minutes — 1g TMG, 4g lysine
T zero + 60 minutes — gym weight machines

The only change to the fission routine I used previously was the addition of the doses of TMG and lysine (shown in bold). I had been taking these, but in the afternoon.

At first I felt normal, though I was able to lift about 1/3 less weight than normal for N+R. Then things began to change. As hours passed I noticed a strong feeling of being drugged. I slept for 14 hours a day for two days (as compared to 6 normally), and my systolic pressure was running 90-95—this without dosing any BP drugs except for the morning of the first day. By evening of the third day, I consumed 5g stearic acid in oatmeal, and that got rid of half the drugged feeling. An hour later I took 1g of broccoli extract, and that more or less got rid of the rest. My BP began to rise, and by the next day it was 115/75 with no BP meds. The elimination of the drugged feeling with the fusion supplements suggests that it came from an unusual level of fission.

Note: Previously my BP was 180+ uncorrected and 130-140 corrected with an alpha-blocker.

For a second trial I tried all these ingredients in one dose, and got nothing described above. It wasn’t even as good as N+R. For a third trial I repeated the first trial exactly (with the thirty minute gap), and got more than in the second trial, but nothing like the first trial. From these results, I suspect that most defective mitochondria were eliminated during those 3 days. My BP seems to be far more in control now, though not totally. It remains to be seen if BP can be decreased permanently, but there is a suggestion of it. Certainly hypertension has been correlated with mitochondrial dysfunction. See Fig 2B in this paper—Mitochondrial Dysfunction in the Hypertensive Rat Brain -- Respiratory Complexes Exhibit Assembly Defects in Hypertension

We have found that the brains of hypertensive rats exhibit cellular energetic defects and mitochondrial dysfunction. Proteins involved in central metabolic processes have decreased abundance. Brain respiratory complexes exhibit previously unknown assembly defects. The ensuing mitochondrial dysfunction affects the brain stem and could, thus, impact the systemic regulation of blood pressure and, thereby, the development and progression of hypertension.

Thank you for sharing your experience. This is most interesting. I will try this once I have gradually worked up my N+R doses and report back.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[hsibai]

The following “atomic protocol” may completely fission mitochondria. That is not proven, but the protocol is very strong and it’s not for anyone who hasn’t done the N+R fission/fusion protocol for a few weeks. Also it may only work once, as it may be getting rid of most defective mitochondria—not something you want to do in one session if you have a massive load of them.


The atomic protocol—

T zero — 2g nicotinamide, 5g ribose
T zero + 30 minutes — 1g TMG, 4g lysine
T zero + 60 minutes — gym weight machines

The only change to the fission routine I used previously was the addition of the doses of TMG and lysine (shown in bold). I had been taking these, but in the afternoon.

At first I felt normal, though I was able to lift about 1/3 less weight than normal for N+R. Then things began to change. As hours passed I noticed a strong feeling of being drugged. I slept for 14 hours a day for two days (as compared to 6 normally), and my systolic pressure was running 90-95—this without dosing any BP drugs except for the morning of the first day. By evening of the third day, I consumed 5g stearic acid in oatmeal, and that got rid of half the drugged feeling. An hour later I took 1g of broccoli extract, and that more or less got rid of the rest. My BP began to rise, and by the next day it was 115/75 with no BP meds. The elimination of the drugged feeling with the fusion supplements suggests that it came from an unusual level of fission.

Note: Previously my BP was 180+ uncorrected and 130-140 corrected with an alpha-blocker.

For a second trial I tried all these ingredients in one dose, and got nothing described above. It wasn’t even as good as N+R. For a third trial I repeated the first trial exactly (with the thirty minute gap), and got more than in the second trial, but nothing like the first trial. From these results, I suspect that most defective mitochondria were eliminated during those 3 days. My BP seems to be far more in control now, though not totally. It remains to be seen if BP can be decreased permanently, but there is a suggestion of it. Certainly hypertension has been correlated with mitochondrial dysfunction. See Fig 2B in this paper—Mitochondrial Dysfunction in the Hypertensive Rat Brain -- Respiratory Complexes Exhibit Assembly Defects in Hypertension

We have found that the brains of hypertensive rats exhibit cellular energetic defects and mitochondrial dysfunction. Proteins involved in central metabolic processes have decreased abundance. Brain respiratory complexes exhibit previously unknown assembly defects. The ensuing mitochondrial dysfunction affects the brain stem and could, thus, impact the systemic regulation of blood pressure and, thereby, the development and progression of hypertension.

Where is PQQ in this protocol?
Ascorbic acid?
Is Broccomax only on third (Last) day of this protocol?
Should there be a fusion cycle after fission (on 4th day) supported by a different stack?

Thanks.


Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[RWhigham]

 

The atomic protocol—

 

T zero — 2g nicotinamide, 5g ribose

T zero + 30 minutes — 1g TMG, 4g lysine

T zero + 60 minutes — gym weight machines 

 

Started my 3rd  fission/fusion cycle this morning

  After rising          2g Nature's Way nicotinamide, 5g Swanson ribose - initiate fission

  30min later        1.2g Jarrow TMG, 2g Now lysine  (I was hesitant to take the full 4 g of lysine)

  1 hr later          Light exercise in the weight room, then went for a 30min walk  - enhance fission

   Before lunch    1.2 tsp ceylon cinnamon, 5 tablets of LEF pomegranate extract  -  promote mitophagy

   After lunch        Slept  in recliner for an hour

     3PM             It appears I've had a quick recovery this time. I feel fine, relaxed, and wide awake .

 

   Only negative was I experienced low blood pressure all morning. 

   Blood pressure:

      On rising              101/55

      After NAM,ribose   82/51

      An hour later          95/58   (raised by drinking 16oz water)

      Before lunch          79/51

      After lunch             92/53

      3PM                      113/57

 

Fusion Results  tomorrow - I'm sure my energy will skyrocket.

I suspect my damaged mitochondria have been cleared.

So I can restart

       C60-MCT-HT  1 tsp/wk

       selenium 200 mcg/d, CoQ10 200 mg/d. See  Combined selenium and CoQ10

 

Edit 4PM - no need for fusion stack tomorrow. Went for a jog. It was SO EASY. Energy has already skyrocketed.

Edited by RWhigham, 14 June 2017 - 10:12 PM.

[zorba990]

I did 2 days in a row
Fasting a.m.
5g Ribose
2g Niacinamide
3g Ornithine alpha ketoglutarate
3g tyrosine
1.5 g Magnesium Threonate
1 pack electrolyte with 1L water (has 14g carbs but I really felt dehydrated, I don't think it interferes with starvation response enough to eliminate it)

First day weight workout 1 hour later, strength was down about 10-15% and was sweating and very winded. I usually run low body temp but it has been 99 degrees (as opposed to 97.3 or so normally for me) Neck was hurting a bit so stopped the workout early. I need to be smarter and use less weight :-)

Second day the same stack, but just stretching and mobility work for the neck. All day been getting hot sweats and digestion is off. So may have overdone it and will give some fusion time with Broccomax, cocoa butter, and lipo c also loading up on probiotics.

[hsibai]

Mitochondrial DNA mutations occur frequently, due to the lack of the error checking capability that nuclear DNA has (see Mutation rate). This means that mitochondrial DNA disorders may occur spontaneously and relatively often. Defects in enzymes that control mitochondrial DNA replication (all of which are encoded for by genes in the nuclear DNA) may also cause mitochondrial DNA mutations.

Most mitochondrial function and biogenesis is controlled by nuclear DNA. Human mitochondrial DNA encodes 13 proteins of the respiratory chain, while most of the estimated 1,500 proteins and components targeted to mitochondria are nuclear-encoded. Defects in nuclear-encoded mitochondrial genes are associated with hundreds of clinical disease phenotypes including anemia, dementia, hypertension, lymphoma, retinopathy, seizures, and neurodevelopmental disorders.[3]
Ref:
https://en.m.wikiped...ondrial_disease

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[Shai Hulud]

So you guys, I hope you can help me a little bit to find a good way to implement this for me personally:

 

I have had problems with anxiety, depression, movement (dystonia, tremor) and also muscle pain/fast tiring more or less my whole life (in my 30s now).

I've also had a lab test my mitochondria, but I'm not sure how reliable the testing was. I asked them for their methods, but didn't get sufficient answers.

Results were: Around 20 % of mt damaged, of these 15 % irreversibly.

 

So I know I have these problems and changing my diet and taking needed vitamins/micronutrients helps. I also have sudden changes in these symptoms and energy

and after reading all this I think I'm already experiencing these "fission moments" but I haven't been using them efficiently.

So I'd love to try this, but as I don't know so far with what kind of symptoms you all started, it's hard to determine how to start.

 

First, I'd guess I'd would be good to have some things in order (energy, nutrient status). For fission to work, would it make sense to preload electrolytes and vitamins before starting the protocol? I already have everything at home, except stearic acid (and broccoli sprouts).

What about non-muscle cells that can't be affected by training? Can working with your mind enhance fission in the CNS?

Last but not least, you guys use TMG. This works in the liver only to regain methionine from homocysteine. Couldn't be 5-MTHF and Methyl-B12 be useful additions for other parts of the body?

 

I had thought to have read the original article, but had found a similar one on the go and confused them to be the same one. Will now look deeper into all articles. Anyway, any feedback would be very much appreciated.

 

Regarding my question with fission and cortisol, I think there's some truth to it, but it's more important for pathogenesis of chronic disease and mitochondrial dysfunction. It's better to hear it works without fixing these problems first.

[RWhigham]

Did the "atomic fission stack" yesterday (Post #114) followed by 20 mg melatonin at bedtime -> promotes fusion

    Had strong aches and pains last night in both arms, shoulders, and a piercing pain in chest.

    Slept poorly because of the roaming pain.

 

Continued today as follows:

    On rising                    4 cap UltraCur curcumin   -  promote stem cell replication  (this also temporarily inhibits differentiation)

    1 hour later                   2 g vit-C crystals -   NAD+ -> NADH  -> suppress fission

    30 min later                  10 g stearic acid in Wallaby sour cream -> promote fusion

    1 hr later                      Easy walk on treadmill 2.7 mph for 50 min

    Before lunch                20 mg PQQ & 2 cap BroccoMax ->  promote mitogenesis

    After lunch                   Slept for 2 hours

        4 PM                        Arms and shoulders sore

        5 PM                       Ran an errand. Felt like I was walking on "spring" shoes. Felt good to walk very fast.

 

There may have been some negative carry over from yesterday's " atomic fission stack" in the form of unexpected muscle pain last night.

I don't think it was ordinary DOMS  (delayed onset muscle soreness).

 

I should have skipped my once-a-week curcumin dose for faster tissue repairs.

Edited by RWhigham, 16 June 2017 - 12:00 AM.

[zorba990]

I did 2 days in a row
Fasting a.m.
5g Ribose
2g Niacinamide
3g Ornithine alpha ketoglutarate
3g tyrosine
1.5 g Magnesium Threonate
1 pack electrolyte with 1L water (has 14g carbs but I really felt dehydrated, I don't think it interferes with starvation response enough to eliminate it)

First day weight workout 1 hour later, strength was down about 10-15% and was sweating and very winded. I usually run low body temp but it has been 99 degrees (as opposed to 97.3 or so normally for me) Neck was hurting a bit so stopped the workout early. I need to be smarter and use less weight :-)

Second day the same stack, but just stretching and mobility work for the neck. All day been getting hot sweats and digestion is off. So may have overdone it and will give some fusion time with Broccomax, cocoa butter, and lipo c also loading up on probiotics.

Still recovering today. I noticed my appetite was way down so I am just going to take my time and do only light stretching. Usual stairs at work had me a bit winded which is weird. More probiotics tonight, slept 12 hours yesterday. Neck is 70-80% better.

I think this hits your weak spots hard. Old injuries, etc.

[Turnbuckle]

 

I did 2 days in a row
 

Still recovering today. I noticed my appetite was way down so I am just going to take my time and do only light stretching. Usual stairs at work had me a bit winded which is weird. More probiotics tonight, slept 12 hours yesterday. Neck is 70-80% better.

I think this hits your weak spots hard. Old injuries, etc.

 

 

 

Tendons are poorly vascularised and have fewer mitochondria than muscle cells, so expect them to be more sensitive to a decline in mito number. . I did N+R/exercise four days in a row the first time, and even using much less weight I regretted it. So best to give tendon cells time to create new mitochondria, and when the defective load is decreased, then you should be able to work them harder.