2284 replies to this topic

[Nate-2004]

 

I see three ways to increase the availability of stearic acid with mango oil:

 

1. Thoroughly mix mango oil in the cured state with phospholipids on a magnetic stirrer for 1 day. This should dramatically increase the absorption of stearic acid from the oil.

 

I will give an example: if we mix acid and water, we will think that we have received a true solution, when all the molecules mutually penetrated each other. However, that is not so! Even such substances as sulfuric acid and water, which have a very low viscosity, will be able to form a true solution only for the next day!

 

Mango oil with phospholimides is much worse!

 

Mixing the mango oil with phospholipids (for example, with soy lecithin or sunflower lecithin), we will dramatically improve the bioavailability, since all digestible triglycerides should form with the phospholipids CHILOMICRONS, which will then go by blood.

 

2. Use mixed with phospholipids, a mango oil with low-fat food. This is to ensure that fatty acids from fatty foods do not compete in the intestines. Thus, we can increase the proportion of sucked fatty acids.

 

3. Shortly before admission, take a substance such as BioPerine. It will increase the absorption of stearic acid. 

 

 

What do you mean by cured state? Soy lethicin does not seem to melt or mix or dissolve in anything that I am aware of so far. It's just yellow granules that clump together and form a crusty layer floating on top. Is there a way to get it to melt?

Edited by Nate-2004, 25 August 2018 - 07:42 PM.

[Kentavr]

What do you mean by cured state? Soy lethicin does not seem to melt or mix or dissolve in anything that I am aware of so far. It's just yellow granules that clump together and form a crusty layer floating on top. Is there a way to get it to melt?

 

I apologize for the translation error.

I am writing through Google translator.

 

Mango oil must be melted, add soy lecithin and mix in a molten state on a magnetic stirrer. At least 1 day.

[Nate-2004]

Yes but soy lethicin is just yellow granules that never seem to mix or blend, how will the stirrer help with that?

[Heisok]

Not sure about the magnetic stirrer method. Might not be hitting the mixture hard enough to emulsify, and does it have a heating effect which would maintain the mixture above the Mango Butter melting point?

 

Adding hot water to Mango Butter and Lecithin, and then blending it with a stick blender or in a blender like Bulletproof coffee will emulsify the mixture. It is similar to creating Lysosomal Vit C. Essentially, we have to hit the mixture hard with metal. 

Edited by Heisok, 25 August 2018 - 09:14 PM.

[Kentavr]

Yes but soy lethicin is just yellow granules that never seem to mix or blend, how will the stirrer help with that?

 

Very simple! - Practice!

 

 

The melting point of soy lecithin:

 

(CAS number 8002-43-5 - phosphatidylcholine(1+)  - 19-21 % 19-21% of the total mass of lecithin) = 236.1 ° C

http://www.molbase.c...ldata-4410.html

 

However, it is mixed with other components, including low melting point.

Hence, it is unlikely to melt above 236.1 ° C

 

Mango oil melts at a temperature of 35–43 °C

 

It is necessary simply:

 

1. Put a small stainless steel metal bowl on a magnetic stirrer,

2. Switch on heating to 80 degrees Celsius

3. Place the agitator

4. Put the mango oil. Enable mixing.The oil will melt

5. Heat up to 150 degrees Celsius (you will not be frightened by such temperature? Leave people constantly fry at a higher temperature! The main thing is that there should be no water, and then there may be oil sprays).

6. Add soy lecithin, mixed with chocolate pieces. Soy lecithin does not need much - 15% is enough.

7. It is necessary to wait until the whole mixture has dissolved and no lumps remain in it. After that, the temperature can be reduced to 100 degrees Celsius.

8. Cover the mixture with a metal lid (for isolation from oxygen).

9. Stir this mixture 2 times for 12 hours.

 

Approximately this scheme occurred to me. 

 

P.S.: When you cool the jar, you need to open the lid when hot. If this is not done, the bank will have a vacuum and it will bend, and you yourself can not open the lid.

Edited by Kentavr, 25 August 2018 - 09:41 PM.

[Graviton]

Going back to the concern about food grade mango butter or mango oil, it has to be very cautious for ingestion of mango butter/mango oil even though it is written as "food grade".  Either if it says "refined" or "unrefined", there are some concerns for each cases. If it is refined and it is said to be "food grade", there may be some cases that manufacturer(s) might use either some solvents or substance to purify the raw product. Some solvents might be concerning in cases that residues might remain in the final product if quality control process is poor.

If it is said to be "unrefined", is there any plant toxin in the raw plant such as urushiol, oily compounds in mango tree?

 

It seems that there is a sentence "Can be used as a substitute for cocoa butter in chocolate manufacturing". in Mango oil wikipedia page, but not sure if this mango oil is compatible with the products commonly sold as mango butter online.

http://www.ajofai.in...id-fraction.pdf

 

"There are 102 calories in a tablespoon of butter. There are only 35 calories in a tablespoon of mango butter. The taste of each is very similar. With mango butter only containing a mere 35% of the calories than butter has, it stands to be an excellent substitute when cooking".

Edited by Graviton, 26 August 2018 - 03:22 AM.

[biggyrat]

Can this protocol be done without stearic acid?    This seems so difficult  now with this issue. 

 

Some info I found  about stearic acid:

 

http://www.chemicals...al-impacts.html

[Turnbuckle]

Can this protocol be done without stearic acid?    This seems so difficult  now with this issue. 

 

Some info I found  about stearic acid:

 

http://www.chemicals...al-impacts.html

 

 

This is a story from an amateur journalist referencing an encyclopedia and marketing sties. About as shallow as you can get, so don't take it seriously. The one reference to take seriously she's not even aware of--the impact of stearic acid on T-cells. As I've posted before, stearic acid can depress T cell activity, so it is not something to take for the long term, nor for people with already limited immune systems or battling some disease. The use of stearic acid here is rather minimal as clearing out defective mitochondria is more a matter for fission. For my stem cell protocol, it is central. But once you've topped off your pools of stem cells, there is no need to continue except occasionally for maintenance.

 

One alternative to stearic acid is sulforaphane, which causes fusion by a different mechanism.

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

Approximately this scheme occurred to me. 

 

 

 

Due to the softness and low melting point of mango butter, you can probably eat it directly and not bother with all this preparation.

[Fafner55]

Long-chain fatty acids, particularly unsaturated ones, are negatively correlated with longevity. This relationship begs the question of "how much is too much?" How often and how much stearic acid (or stearic + palmitic) acid can be taken safely?

1. "Feeding into old age: long-term effects of dietary fatty acid supplementation on tissue composition and life span in mice" (2011) https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3022160/
2. "Plasma long-chain free fatty acids predict mammalian longevity" (2013) https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3842621/

[Turnbuckle]

 

Long-chain fatty acids, particularly unsaturated ones, are negatively correlated with longevity. This relationship begs the question of "how much is too much?" How often and how much stearic acid (or stearic + palmitic) acid can be taken safely?

1. "Feeding into old age: long-term effects of dietary fatty acid supplementation on tissue composition and life span in mice" (2011) https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3022160/
2. "Plasma long-chain free fatty acids predict mammalian longevity" (2013) https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3842621/

 

 

We are using this as a drug for an intervention, not as a food to be taken for a lifetime. In any case, I don't see any experiments in there with stearic or palmitic acid. This cross species stuff doesn't cut it.

[Nate-2004]

 

Very simple! - Practice!

 

 

The melting point of soy lecithin:

 

(CAS number 8002-43-5 - phosphatidylcholine(1+)  - 19-21 % 19-21% of the total mass of lecithin) = 236.1 ° C

http://www.molbase.c...ldata-4410.html

 

However, it is mixed with other components, including low melting point.

Hence, it is unlikely to melt above 236.1 ° C

 

Mango oil melts at a temperature of 35–43 °C

 

It is necessary simply:

 

1. Put a small stainless steel metal bowl on a magnetic stirrer,

2. Switch on heating to 80 degrees Celsius

3. Place the agitator

4. Put the mango oil. Enable mixing.The oil will melt

5. Heat up to 150 degrees Celsius (you will not be frightened by such temperature? Leave people constantly fry at a higher temperature! The main thing is that there should be no water, and then there may be oil sprays).

6. Add soy lecithin, mixed with chocolate pieces. Soy lecithin does not need much - 15% is enough.

7. It is necessary to wait until the whole mixture has dissolved and no lumps remain in it. After that, the temperature can be reduced to 100 degrees Celsius.

8. Cover the mixture with a metal lid (for isolation from oxygen).

9. Stir this mixture 2 times for 12 hours.

 

Approximately this scheme occurred to me. 

 

P.S.: When you cool the jar, you need to open the lid when hot. If this is not done, the bank will have a vacuum and it will bend, and you yourself can not open the lid.

 

You seem to know your biochemistry, I can get why phospholipids may help and I didn't realize that's what the soy lecithin was, but can I ask why cocoa important in this process? 

 

I managed to finally get the soy lecithin to dissolve after using a double boiler to melt the mango oil on its own without water. I put the soy lecithin granules in the melted oil and stirred occasionally on low heat. I didn't have a thermometer but I assume the max temp was at most 100 celsius. It took roughly 3 hours for the granules to dissolve completely. I added 100% cocoa from Hershey's to the mix. It was a small batch but successful. I plan to make a much larger batch the same way next time around. 

[pamojja]

It took roughly 3 hours for the granules to dissolve completely.

 

Hmm. Don't know if that applies to mango oil, but lecithin granules readily dissolve with in an ultra-sonic cleaner in water with ascorbic acid.
 

[QuestforLife]

Is there anyway we can tell if our mitochondria are in fusion?

Blood pressure, energy levels, strength?

Would be another way of telling if the mango butter or sulphoraphane or fish oil or whatever we're using for fusion is working.

I've tried using mango butter, heating it up into an emulsion in water and then downing it with a digestive enzyme tablet for 'breakfast'. I then didn't eat anything else till lunchtime.

[QuestforLife]

Also, what kind of bioavailability are we looking at for the various fatty acid forms?

From what I recall the pure stearic acid used in the in Vivo study produced robust fusion, so the bioavailability must have been good enough (they took 25g).

[Kentavr]

You seem to know your biochemistry, I can get why phospholipids may help and I didn't realize that's what the soy lecithin was, but can I ask why cocoa important in this process? 

 

I managed to finally get the soy lecithin to dissolve after using a double boiler to melt the mango oil on its own without water. I put the soy lecithin granules in the melted oil and stirred occasionally on low heat. I didn't have a thermometer but I assume the max temp was at most 100 celsius. It took roughly 3 hours for the granules to dissolve completely. I added 100% cocoa from Hershey's to the mix. It was a small batch but successful. I plan to make a much larger batch the same way next time around. 

 

Chocolate was needed if it was not possible to dissolve the lecithin.

 

However, I would not recommend soy lecithin, although it is slightly used. Soy lecithin increases the level of estrogen.

 

You can take phospholipids of egg yolk.

 

---

 

By interfering with phospholipids in mango oil: it is best to stir for 24 hours. Temperatures above 100 degrees Celsius raise do not advise, as this can affect the quality of the oil: it can oxidize. This you can see if the product darkens: it will then become caramel color. If this happens, the end product can not be used.

[biggyrat]

What about using sunflower lecithin instead of soy? 

[Nate-2004]

This isn't a continuous every day dose of soy lecithin, just for the purpose of this short intervention. No need to worry about estrogen. Also it does have plus sides.

Edited by Nate-2004, 30 August 2018 - 09:34 PM.

[lost69]

we are making a group buy for sigma aldrich stearic acid W303518 used inthe study, i tried to order from sigma but having a company is not enough, they make a fullscan of you...it was impossible.an italian member pointed me to a reseller zetalab.it which sells to companies with italian vat number.the main problem is they dont stock W303518 but the reagent grade from sigma, so to make an order from sigma they have a minimum of 500€ or 10 to 20days delivery time, time they need for other sigma orders from their clients and reach 500€

 

now i have a quotation of 180€ for 8kg W303518, 22€ for delivery to me, Vat 22% not included and 10-20 days delivery time fully booked from me and other members.if we can double to 16kg i think we get a better quotation and shorten delivery time

 

this is where we are now at 246€ for 8kg (vat and shipment to me included)

 

Andey 2kg

questforlife 2kg

aconita 2kg

lost69 me 2kg

 

other members to reach 16kg total and close to a 500€ amount

coolewater 1kg

 

cheapest service from italy

using chrome translator you can check about this service

https://www.poste.it/EMS_listino.pdf

 

or cheaper for europe countries

https://www.poste.it/QPE_listino.pdf

 

[Andey]

we are making a group buy for sigma aldrich stearic acid W303518 used inthe study, i tried to order from sigma but having a company is not enough, they make a fullscan of you...it was impossible.an italian member pointed me to a reseller zetalab.it which sells to companies with italian vat number.the main problem is they dont stock W303518 but the reagent grade from sigma, so to make an order from sigma they have a minimum of 500€ or 10 to 20days delivery time, time they need for other sigma orders from their clients and reach 500€

 

now i have a quotation of 180€ for 8kg W303518, 22€ for delivery to me, Vat 22% not included and 10-20 days delivery time fully booked from me and other members.if we can double to 16kg i think we get a better quotation and shorten delivery time

 

this is where we are now at 246€ for 8kg (vat and shipment to me included)

 

 

Sigma`s next package size is 25kg, and price drops dramatically for it (at least that how it is on their us site)

Not sure that we could get enough people on board to get to this number

[Nate-2004]

Not worth it in my opinion. Just use the following recipe and you should be able to get the same results:

 

1. Place full tub of mango butter, food grade, in a double boiler. Best if kept within an appropriately sized glass tupperware type container for a couple of degrees reduced heat and ease of storage and mixing.
2. Once melted completely, add 1 or 2 tbsp soy lecithin. Let it sit on low heat for about 2 hours, occasionally stirring till dissolved.
3. Mix in some 100% unsweetened cocoa, stir.
4. Remove from heat and let it cool while stirring occasionally. 

When this is done you can easily add 20g of this to a hot cup of morning coffee with whatever other ingredients you like. It should melt pretty quickly. 

 

This should give you fairly bioavailable stearic acid at 40%.

 

 

Edited by Nate-2004, 06 September 2018 - 04:11 PM.

[lost69]

I dont have time to make these recipes at all but more important how do we know we are getting the same 24g as in the study?i also used broccomax 20mg but no way to know if i am replicating the fusion level in the study

[Turnbuckle]

I dont have time to make these recipes at all but more important how do we know we are getting the same 24g as in the study?i also used broccomax 20mg but no way to know if i am replicating the fusion level in the study

 

What study is this?

[Andey]

What study is this?

 

https://www.nature.c...467-018-05614-6

They specifically mentioned Sigma-Aldrich W303518 in the Methods 

 

I obviously support lost69, and joined the group by because its a much safer bet to go with a free fatty acid keeping it as free of other variables and confounders as possible.

Natural oils are very variable in their composition. Shea butter, for example, could have 23%-50% stearic acid, what form and how fast it would be digested, what Cmax level is not known.

(its probably more in response to the Nates comment)

 

Edited by Andey, 07 September 2018 - 07:00 AM.

[Graviton]

It is still vague whether taking some kinds phytochemicals mentioned in this thread is effective for mitochondrial fusion.

 

Other than sulforaphane, which was mentioned before, consider vitamin D3 and honokiol.

 

For example, honokiol, SIRT3 activator, is claimed to promote mitochondrial fusion in the one of studies.

HKL-mediated activation of SIRT3 prevented Doxorubicin induced ROS production, mitochondrial damage and cell death in rat neonatal cardiomyocytes. HKL also promoted mitochondrial fusion. (...) Doxorubicin treatment caused mitochondrial fragmentation, whereas treatment with HKL preserved the normal tubular shape of mitochondria, suggesting that HKL promotes mitochondrial fusion

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5470953/

 

Vitamin D3 via increasing the expression of OPA1 implies the relation of mitochondrial fusion

 

 

Treatment of hSkMCs with 1α,25(OH)2D3 increased the expression of OPA1 (p = 0.01), a GTPase responsible for fusion of the inner mitochondrial membrane

http://www.jbc.org/content/291/3/1514

 

Although there were some discussion about phytochemicals for mitochondrial fusion in some studies, it is not sure if it is effective for the purpose that was originally discussed in this thread.

Can we claim that they are relevant to mitochondrial fusion with a few studies, especially in vitro studies?

Edited by Graviton, 11 September 2018 - 11:10 PM.

[onz]

Regarding the atomic protocol, would SAMe be a suitable alternative to TMG?

[cbkid]

Dumb question, but what happens when you try to induce both fission and fusion at the same time? i.e. Taking all of these supplements at the same time without the days in-between?

[Turnbuckle]

Dumb question, but what happens when you try to induce both fission and fusion at the same time? i.e. Taking all of these supplements at the same time without the days in-between?

 

 

Fission + fusion is the normal state. So you will get nothing. The goal here is to push the normal state in one direction or the other to produce states that rarely occur.

[StevesPetRat]

I haven't had time to read pages 10 - present, so pardon me if this has come up already. Still, wanted to ask before it ... slipped my mind:

 

Is there a brain exercise regimen equivalent to doing small weights with this protocol to stimulate mitochondrial quality control? LLLT? Sensory overload?

[Turnbuckle]

I haven't had time to read pages 10 - present, so pardon me if this has come up already. Still, wanted to ask before it ... slipped my mind:

 

Is there a brain exercise regimen equivalent to doing small weights with this protocol to stimulate mitochondrial quality control? LLLT? Sensory overload?

 

 

As has been pointed out since the very first post, fission is necessary for mito QC. There is no brain exercise--or any exercise at all that I know of--that will achieve an enhanced state of fission.

 

See Mitochondrial dynamics and mitochondrial quality control.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 16 September 2018 - 12:42 PM.