2284 replies to this topic

[stephen_b]

The object is to recycle and replace defective mitochondria, not rescue them.

 

That makes sense, in light of the protocol's objectives.

 

Thoughts on leucine (source):

1. Taking it with a meal leads to a minimal blood plasma increase due to it competing with other aminos, so it seems to be a better idea to take it on an empty stomach. Maybe others knew that, but I haven't seen it discussed.

2. It competes with dopamine precursors, so can leave you tired out/feeling blah. I have noticed this one. The suggestion is to take it with after a workout. I wonder if taking tyrosine at the same time could prevent this effect.

[Empiricus]

For nearly a month, I've been taking stearic acid (as GM) intermittently as a treatment for a chronic infectious disease, avoiding the fission part of the protocol.  So far I've consumed over 75 grams in total.   I'm getting comments about appearing to have more wrinkles and I have experienced hair falling out (I haven't experienced substantial hair shedding in years). Frankly, I expected a period of excess fussion to have the opposite result, because I feel in past years I may have over-done it with fission.  Meanwhile, my symptoms have improved to the extent that I'm not hesitant to discontinue the GM.  For now I wanted to mention this surprising apparent side effect of taking GM regularly.

 

Edited by Empiricus, 19 August 2020 - 01:49 PM.

[DragosR]

Hi guys!

 

I want to incorporate curcumin (Longvida), coq10 and krill oil.  It is a good ideea to take them in fusion days? Based on the studies below.

 

Coq10:

•  In this regard, the combined treatment with ubiquinol and physical exercise not only ameliorated muscle oxidative stress and bioenergetics but also associated with a decreased expression of autophagy/mitophagy-associated genes, such as Bnip3l, Atg12, and Beclin-1 known to promote mitochondrial fragmentation and mitophagy and autophagosome formation [93, 94].
• Ubisol-Q10 Prevents Glutamate-Induced Cell Death by Blocking Mitochondrial Fragmentation and Permeability Transition Pore Opening

 

 

Curcumin:

• Curcumin improves mitochondrial health through inducing mitochondrial biogenesis and mitophagy and inhibiting mitochondrial fission (4). https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6370263/

[Turnbuckle]

For 25 days, I've been taking stearic acid (as GM) intermittently as a treatment for a chronic infectious disease, avoiding the fission part of the protocol.  So far I've consumed about 75 grams total.   I'm getting comments about appearing to have more wrinkles and I have experienced hair falling out (I haven't experienced substantial hair shedding in years). Frankly, I expected a period of excess fussion to have the opposite result, because I feel in past years I may have over-done it with fission.   Meanwhile, my symptoms have improved to the extent that I have discontinued the GM.  If the positive results continue, I will provide more details on another thread.  For now I wanted to mention this surprising apparent side effect of taking GM regularly.

 

What is GM? And what is this disease?

[nadaepeu]

What is GM? And what is this disease?

I guess he means Glycerol monostearate

[userCK]

I read 30 out of 56 pages of this thread. Fascinated! You people are at the cutting edge of science, referencing studies after studies and forming reasonable hypothesis and experiments. Big round of applause to you all; and especially to OP, Turnbuckle!

 

How I got to this thread: I've been searching for ways to reverse epigenetic modifications and so far I thought it is only possible with cycles of water-fasting (48h+) and potentially by supplementing with Butyrates, BHB powders. This thread made me understand the difference between mitochondrian encoded genes vs nuclear encoded genes. I've no way to know exactly where damage is but I'm going to assume it is in my Mito encoded ones.

 

So, I want to try this protocol (several times). I can easily avoid taking a billion supplements I'm taking, none of them are essential, I'm only taking them to restore my health and because I didnt think it was possible to reverse epigenetic modifications.

 

Can someone tell me exactly what I'm allowed to eat on Fission Days and what I'm allowed to eat on Fusion days? Seems to me that Fission days are going to be more restrictive as a lot of things could inhibit fission whereas Fusion days, could possibly eat anything.

 

Of course, it is nearly impossible to list all foods so perhaps it might be easier to simply list 2-3 dishes/meals that I can order from restaurant and just eat those during my cycles? Like if you say, you can eat McDonald's Big Mac burger on Fission day and only Filet-o-Fish burger on Fusion days, that's no problem, I'll just do that. I don't mind eating same meal for every meal for 5 days.

 

Background on what I'm trying to fix (optional reading, may skip the below).

 

For 6 years (since age 31), I've been (unknowingly) suffering from what's known as Post Accutane Syndrome + Post Finasteride Syndrome. 2014-15 I took Accutane for 3 months and had bad side-effects few weeks after stopping the medication. I never connected these side-effects to Accutane and continued to suffer for several years (libido loss, erection loss, sudden onset of cholesterol issues, pre-diabetes, low thyroid issues, despite everything being perfect just a few months before Accutane use). Doctors told me it was all stress etc And sexual issues were all in my head. Cialis/Viagara would help so as long as I could perform with Cialis, I was fine and didn't dwell on various issues too much. Just started taking prescribed medications (synthroid, cialis etc) and all was well.

 

Last year, I took Finasteride for hairloss and suddenly I noticed that even Cialis/Viagara/L-Arg/L-Citruline/Beet juice stopped working. Frantically, I searched and searched and eventually stumbled upon forums like Propecia Help, PFSFoundation etc and learned about all these things. While no cure has been identified yet, some studies have confirmed epigenetic modifications caused by these drugs so I'm hoping Turnbuckle's protocol might help reverse some of these modifications. Even if not, no real harm in trying.

Reference studies:

https://ec.bioscient.../EC-19-0199.xml

 

Results

SRD5A1 and SRD5A2 methylation analysis was performed in all blood samples (n = 16 PFS patients and n = 20 controls), in 16 CSF samples from PFS patients and in 13 CSF samples from controls. The SRD5A2 promoter was more frequently methylated in CSF of PFS patients compared to controls (56.3 vs 7.7%). No promoter methylation was detected in blood samples in both groups. No methylation occurred in the SRD5A1 promoter of both groups. Unmethylated controls compared to unmethylated SRD5A2patients showed higher pregnenolone, dihydrotestosterone and dihydroprogesterone, together with lower testosterone CSF levels. Andrological and neurological assessments did not differ between methylated and unmethylated subjects.

Conclusions

For the first time, we demonstrate a tissue-specific methylation pattern of SRD5A2 promoter in PFS patients. Although we cannot conclude whether this pattern is prenatally established or induced by finasteride treatment, it could represent an important mechanism of neuroactive steroid levels and behavioural disturbances previously described in PFS.

 

 

 

https://link.springe...ors, may be the

 In addition, finasteride-induced epigenetic changes in gene expression, including upregulation of androgen receptors (AR), increased histone acetylation, and methylation results in undesirable biological outcomes such as impairment of dopaminergic signaling and modulation of other neurotransmitter receptors, may be the underlying mechanism causing persistent or permanent adverse effects, manifested in anxiety, depression, and suicidal ideation.

 

 

 

 

Attached Files

•  Post-finasteride syndrome- a surmountable challenge for clinicians.pdf   2.3MB   3 downloads

Edited by userCK, 10 September 2020 - 05:57 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

I read 30 out of 56 pages of this thread. Fascinated! You people are at the cutting edge of science, referencing studies after studies and forming reasonable hypothesis and experiments. Big round of applause to you all; and especially to OP, Turnbuckle!

 

How I got to this thread: I've been searching for ways to reverse epigenetic modifications and so far I thought it is only possible with cycles of water-fasting (48h+) and potentially by supplementing with Butyrates, BHB powders. This thread made me understand the difference between mitochondrian encoded genes vs nuclear encoded genes. I've no way to know exactly where damage is but I'm going to assume it is in my Mito encoded ones.

 

So, I want to try this protocol (several times). I can easily avoid taking a billion supplements I'm taking, none of them are essential, I'm only taking them to restore my health and because I didnt think it was possible to reverse epigenetic modifications.

 

Can someone tell me exactly what I'm allowed to eat on Fission Days and what I'm allowed to eat on Fusion days? Seems to me that Fission days are going to be more restrictive as a lot of things could inhibit fission whereas Fusion days, could possibly eat anything.

 

Of course, it is nearly impossible to list all foods so perhaps it might be easier to simply list 2-3 dishes/meals that I can order from restaurant and just eat those during my cycles? Like if you say, you can eat McDonald's Big Mac burger on Fission day and only Filet-o-Fish burger on Fusion days, that's no problem, I'll just do that. I don't mind eating same meal for every meal for 5 days.

 

Background on what I'm trying to fix (optional reading, may skip the below).

 

For 6 years (since age 31), I've been (unknowingly) suffering from what's known as Post Accutane Syndrome + Post Finasteride Syndrome. 2014-15 I took Accutane for 3 months and had bad side-effects few weeks after stopping the medication. I never connected these side-effects to Accutane and continued to suffer for several years (libido loss, erection loss, sudden onset of cholesterol issues, pre-diabetes, low thyroid issues, despite everything being perfect just a few months before Accutane use). Doctors told me it was all stress etc And sexual issues were all in my head. Cialis/Viagara would help so as long as I could perform with Cialis, I was fine and didn't dwell on various issues too much. Just started taking prescribed medications (synthroid, cialis etc) and all was well.

 

Last year, I took Finasteride for hairloss and suddenly I noticed that even Cialis/Viagara/L-Arg/L-Citruline/Beet juice stopped working. Frantically, I searched and searched and eventually stumbled upon forums like Propecia Help, PFSFoundation etc and learned about all these things. While no cure has been identified yet, some studies have confirmed epigenetic modifications caused by these drugs so I'm hoping Turnbuckle's protocol might help reverse some of these modifications. Even if not, no real harm in trying.

Reference studies:

https://ec.bioscient.../EC-19-0199.xml

 

 

https://link.springe...ors, may be the

 

Someone once told me they were prescribed finasteride and never had an erection again. And that’s apparently not uncommon. Both finasteride and Accutane are associated with impotence, and both are known to be toxic to mitochondria. Statins as a group are also associated with impotence and mito damage.

 

But I doubt mitochondrial damage is the central issue.

 

Mitochondria are controlled mostly by genes in the nuclear DNA. They also have their own DNA, in the form of bacterial style loops of DNA designated mtDNA (to distinguish it from nuclear DNA — nDNA). Mitochondrial DNA has 37 genes. All are critical, as if any one of them becomes non-functional, ATP production stops in mitochondria with only one loop. Thus by fissioning mitochondria down to this minimum size, cellular processes will get rid of non-functional mtDNA by mitophagy. By doing cycles of fission/mitophagy and fusion/biogenesis, the genetic health of a population of mitochondria (of which there may be thousands per cell) can be improved.

 

However, this does not directly address epigenetic changes either in the mtDNA or nDNA.

 

The paper you linked to reports that finasteride produces epigenetic changes to the SRD5A2 gene, whereby its activity is greatly decreased. This suggests that the mito protocol won’t help, as the problem is in the nDNA. The SRD5A2 gene produces a steroid that converts testosterone into the more powerful dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Unfortunately, DHT is associated with male pattern baldness, while the lack of it is associated with impotence.

 

Thus the best way to take finasteride is to apply it directly to the scalp. Not to take it orally.

 

Since finasteride can make epigenetic changes to SRD5A2, it’s possible there’s something that could do the opposite. I don’t know what that is, however.

 

The epigenetic modification might correct itself in time as senescent cells are replaced by stem cell activity, which have de novo methylation, and my stem cell protocol might help in that regard. That it might provide in-vivo re-activation of stem Lydig cells seems possible, at least—

 

The second method involves isolating, identifying, and transplanting stem Leydig cells into testicular tissue. Theoretically, in-vivo re-activation of SLCs in men with primary hypogonadism due to age would be another alternative method to treat hypogonadism while eliminating the need for transplantation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5080638/

 

 

 

Bottom line, I would first look for something known or suspected to increase DHT and/or baldness, while using finasteride topically. Something like Tribulus Terrestris.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 10 September 2020 - 01:24 PM.

[QuestforLife]

You could also look at substances that increase testosterone in a sustainable way, and that way you'll end up with more DHT even with a less active pathway (if that is desirable). Perhaps ashwaghanda would do the trick.

A Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled, Crossover Study Examining the Hormonal and Vitality Effects of Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) in Aging, Overweight Males

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6438434/

Ashwagandha intake was associated with an 18% greater increase in DHEA-S (p = .005) and 14.7% greater increase in testosterone (p = .010) compared to the placebo.

Also Zinc. Zinc should always be your first point of call with sex drive issues. You might just be depleted.

[userCK]

 

 

Thus the best way to take finasteride is to apply it directly to the scalp. Not to take it orally.

 

Since finasteride can make epigenetic changes to SRD5A2, it’s possible there’s something that could do the opposite. I don’t know what that is, however.

 

The epigenetic modification might correct itself in time as senescent cells are replaced by stem cell activity, which have de novo methylation, and my stem cell protocol might help in that regard. That it might provide in-vivo re-activation of stem Lydig cells seems possible, at least—

 

 

 

Bottom line, I would first look for something known or suspected to increase DHT and/or baldness, while using finasteride topically. Something like Tribulus Terrestris.

 

Thanks, Turnbuckle!

 

I did take Finasteride topically, not orally and only for a month and it's been nearly 2 years. I know several people now that have had this for 10+ years and have not recovered at all. In fact, some symptoms got worse over time (aging could be contributing to worsening of the symptoms). Based on all the studies I've read on PFS/PAS, I'm designing a protocol for myself and I'd like to have this Mito Fission/Fusion as part of my protocol. But I'm still unclear on what I can eat / not eat during Fission/Fusion days. Any guidance/recommendations would be immensely helpful. Please!

 

If you're curious about my protocol, let me paste it here, but it is off-topic so feel free to not respond to it. Basically my protocol tries to fill-in-the-gaps left by methylated/silenced genes:

 

1. Boost 5ar type 1 enzyme somehow, this will bring back neurosteroids like Allopregnanolone back online. I'm assuming there is a deficit of it.
2. Boost 5ar type 2 enzyme somehow, this will bring back Androgens like DHT online.
3. Heal Gut as both Accutane and Finasteride destroy gut lining and microbiome
4. Balance Neurotransmitters
5. Re-establish Nitric Oxide sensitivity
6. Reverse epigenetic modification caused by Finasteride/Accutane as confirmed by many studies
7. Optimize vitamins/minerals


1. Boost 5ar type 1 enzyme (which was blocked by Accutane):
Not sure how. I've started taking 2-3mg of 5a-DHP drops. Hopefully, that will be a positive feedback loop and force the body to produce more 5ar1.
-> Take HCG 250iu 3x a week

2. Boost 5ar 2 (which was blocked by Finasteride):
Started Proviron and HCG (no Testosterone). DHT has a positive feedback loop so this should stimulate the body to produce more 5ar2 enzymes.

3. Heal Gut (both Fin/Accutane damage gut, and gut makes most neurotransmitters among other things):
-> BPC-157 injection as well as oral
-> Consume Probiotic supplements, Kefir, Yogurt

4. Balance Neurotransmitter: (based on my dried-urine test results attached):
I seem to be high on Dopamine, medium on Serotonin and low on remaining - Histamine, Epinephrine, Norepinephrine, GABA, Glutamate

So:

4a. for GABA:
-> Bacopa to re-sensitize GABA receptors
-> Shilajit to counter serotonin increase that comes from Bacopa

4b. for Glutamate:
-> L-Glutamine
-> perhaps D-Aspartic Acid

4c. for Epinephrine and Norepinephrine:
-> Since I'm already high on Dopamine, I need to promote its metabolism into Epi and Norepi:
-> Magnesium, Vitamin C
-> perhaps SAM-e too but not sure

4d. for Histamine:
-> L-histidine
-> Maca (but this may also increase Dopamine further, not sure yet)

5. Re-sensitize Nitric Oxide sensitivity:
-> Horny Goat Weed, Trans-Resveratol, Butea Superba, Cialis/Viagra
Area1255 blog has two posts about Nitric Oxide - 1 talks about uporegulating Glutamate, NMDA and other talks about restoring NO pathway with medicines like DXM, Risperidone, Lecozotan but I don't understand it. Most of you know are more knowledgeable than me, so I'd appreciate if someone could critique and explain it to me in more simpler terms. Links below:

->  https://area1255.blo...tric-oxide.html

and

-> https://area1255.blo...ow-to-cure.html ( dont understand this), quoting:

 

ANDROGEN's Recruit Neuronal Nitric Oxide Synthase in a Specific Manner

There may be however...a way around this - and it revolves around THREE strategies... 

 

1. Take DXM (dextromethorphan) or Memantine to upregulate the NMDA-receptors; to restore the Nitric Oxide pathway. [study 1] [study 2]
2. Take Risperidone; an antipsychotic for 1-week to upregulate the Dopamine D2-receptors; as they are needed for erections etc [upregulation study] [D2 & Erections]
3. Find a source and buy LECOZOTAN - a unique 5-HT1A antagonist which should block the post-synaptic receptors and restore nerve sensations and spinal connections.

 

 

 

 

6. Reverse epigenetic modifications:
No sure way of doing this. But:
-> water fasting 48 hours, once every 2 weeks
-> Sodium Butyrate and Sodium BHB daily

-> Mito Fission/Fusion (in LongeCity thread by Turnbuckle)

7. Optimize vitamins/minerals:
-> Vitamin A, E (liver oil based)
-> B complex (methylated)
-> Vitamin C
-> Magnesium (glycinate, magetin)
-> Zinc + copper combo 
-> Trans-Resveratrol
-> Ginkgo Biloba

 

 

 

EDIT/UPDATE: Just started reading your Stem Cell thread! Damn, I'm so impressed. I've seen countless doctors (endocrinologists, gp, neuro experts, urologist etc) and spent over $40,000 in various tests and doctor-prescribed treatments (ShockWave therapy, Testosterone Replacement Therapy etc) and I've been entirely unimpressed. In fact, as I started doing my own research into this (after discovering that this condition is called PFS), I feel like I know a lot more than the multitude of doctors I've seen over past 5 years. Then I come across this thread and now your Stem Cell thread, I am simply in awe! Glad to have had interacted with you!

Edited by userCK, 10 September 2020 - 04:07 PM.

[userCK]

No reply? So many people on this thread, anyone that has tried this protocol should be able to answer this question about what you can eat or not eat. Turnbuckle shouldn't have to answer everything - pay it forward guys, Turnbuckle answered your questions, now I request you guys to answer other noob questions!

 

How about this:

• Fission days: can I eat eggs, bread, cheese, yogurt, milk, white rice, coffee (black), butter, olive oil, onions, broccoli, potatoes, salmon, white fish, bbq chicken, salt, pepper, steak ?
• Fusion days : can I eat eggs, bread, cheese, yogurt, milk, white rice, coffee (black), butter, olive oil, onions, broccoli, potatoes, salmon, white fish, bbq chicken, salt, pepper, steak ?

 

[aribadabar]

 

No reply? So many people on this thread, anyone that has tried this protocol should be able to answer this question about what you can eat or not eat. Turnbuckle shouldn't have to answer everything - pay it forward guys, Turnbuckle answered your questions, now I request you guys to answer other noob questions!

 

How about this:

• Fission days: can I eat eggs, bread, cheese, yogurt, milk, white rice, coffee (black), butter, olive oil, onions, broccoli, potatoes, salmon, white fish, bbq chicken, salt, pepper, steak ?
• Fusion days : can I eat eggs, bread, cheese, yogurt, milk, white rice, coffee (black), butter, olive oil, onions, broccoli, potatoes, salmon, white fish, bbq chicken, salt, pepper, steak ?

 

 

No, just fast and prayer for you

 

On a more serious note, keep the saturated fat-rich foods on the fusion days as they are more likely to contain higher levels of stearic acid.

Use the rest of the food items on the fission days and you should be fine.

[userCK]

No, just fast and prayer for you

 

On a more serious note, keep the saturated fat-rich foods on the fusion days as they are more likely to contain higher levels of stearic acid.

Use the rest of the food items on the fission days and you should be fine.

haha, thanks, much appreciated. Yeah, I actually can do a 5 day water-fast, no issues. But I read in these threads that fasting interferes with fission. 

[Empiricus]

What is GM? And what is this disease?

 

glycerol monostearate

 

https://www.longecit...19/#entry898296

[Turnbuckle]

glycerol monostearate

 

https://www.longecit...19/#entry898296

 

 

As I advised on the linked thread, mango butter would be safer, especially for those with hypertension.

[Turnbuckle]

haha, thanks, much appreciated. Yeah, I actually can do a 5 day water-fast, no issues. But I read in these threads that fasting interferes with fission. 

 

In my experience, N+R trumps fasting-induced fusion, and stearic acid trumps N+R-induced fission.

[stephen_b]

In my experience, N+R trumps fasting-induced fusion, and stearic acid trumps N+R-induced fission.

Any thoughts on whether sulforaphane (perhaps with mustard seed powder) does against N+R-induced fusion?

Edited by stephen_b, 17 September 2020 - 11:37 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Any thoughts on whether sulforaphane (perhaps with mustard seed powder) does against N+R-induced fusion?

 

 

I can't say how it would stack up compared to stearic acid, however in the brain it could be expected to be far superior. Because while sulforaphane passes the BBB,  stearic acid is blocked.

[stephen_b]

After 11 cycles, I noticed an all time low for my resting heart rate (the suggestion for that is to measure right before falling asleep or right when waking up). It was in the mid 60s but now is around 51 bpm.

[Black Fox]

Has anyone considered including pexophagy into the protocol ? Peroxisomes as highly dynamic with a short half life

 

https://www.research...th_and_Diseases

 

 

[sub7]

May I please ask for some input about stearic acid?
I am not located in the USA and the various sources that have been discussed on this forum are not available to me. I am only able to obtain stearic acid from industrial suppliers of food additives. I am not concerned about potential issues such as mislabeling or contamination with heavy metals etc. since these are very professional suppliers that sell to international manufacturers of food products.
Under normal circumstances, they do not even supply to individual buyers, but I have been able to purchase a sufficient quantity of stearic acid whose label just has useless information (lot number, date of manufacture, production site and so on).

If the label says stearic acid and the product is properly labeled, is that likely good to go? Or are there various production /synthesis methods for stearic acid, resulting in some variants that are likely not suited for the purposes outlined in this thread?

 

I understand the question is too broad in scope perhaps and a definitive answer may be impossible. However, any educated "best guess" will be tremendously helpful...

[aribadabar]

May I please ask for some input about stearic acid?
I am not located in the USA and the various sources that have been discussed on this forum are not available to me. I am only able to obtain stearic acid from industrial suppliers of food additives. I am not concerned about potential issues such as mislabeling or contamination with heavy metals etc. since these are very professional suppliers that sell to international manufacturers of food products.
Under normal circumstances, they do not even supply to individual buyers, but I have been able to purchase a sufficient quantity of stearic acid whose label just has useless information (lot number, date of manufacture, production site and so on).

If the label says stearic acid and the product is properly labeled, is that likely good to go? Or are there various production /synthesis methods for stearic acid, resulting in some variants that are likely not suited for the purposes outlined in this thread?

 

I understand the question is too broad in scope perhaps and a definitive answer may be impossible. However, any educated "best guess" will be tremendously helpful...

 

If the food grade stearic acid in your country is the same as the one offered in USA, then it is actually 50/50 stearic/palmitic acid.

Only chemical lab suppliers like Sigma seem to offer 98%+ stearic acid so my "best guess" is you are getting the 50/50 mix which is mostly what people use as is the most commonly available.
 

[sub7]

If the food grade stearic acid in your country is the same as the one offered in USA, then it is actually 50/50 stearic/palmitic acid.

Only chemical lab suppliers like Sigma seem to offer 98%+ stearic acid so my "best guess" is you are getting the 50/50 mix which is mostly what people use as is the most commonly available.
 

 

This has been my understanding too, after the research I did over the last day and a half over various sources.
Thank you very much.

 

One other question: Why is everyone going through such hardship to melt stearic acid in coffee or bake with it?
I tried mixing some into yogurt and it tastes' very neutral. If you want to further suppress the very small amount of taste remaining, you can mix in some cocoa powder into the yogurt and that will fully overpower any stearic acid taste.

 

Do we have to heat it to make it bioavailable or would mixing it with yogurt be fine?

[Turnbuckle]

This has been my understanding too, after the research I did over the last day and a half over various sources.
Thank you very much.

 

One other question: Why is everyone going through such hardship to melt stearic acid in coffee or bake with it?
I tried mixing some into yogurt and it tastes' very neutral. If you want to further suppress the very small amount of taste remaining, you can mix in some cocoa powder into the yogurt and that will fully overpower any stearic acid taste.

 

Do we have to heat it to make it bioavailable or would mixing it with yogurt be fine?

 

 

Food grade stearic acid melts at 157° F at is not soluble in water. Thus it will pass through your system unchanged. So you must either cook it into something, or use a stearic acid source that has a lower melting point. Mango butter, for instance, melts at about 86° F and is about 36% stearic acid. See this post.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 04 October 2020 - 09:46 AM.

[sub7]

Thanks a lot Turnbuckle

 

You had mentıoned glycerol monostearate as a potentialy superior source of stearic acid. Have you continued to use it?

 

And as far as heating stearic acid, of so when you melt it in a coffee, would it no recrystallize in your stomach where the temperature is far lower than its melting point?
Or when it is incorporated into a cookie, will it not refreeze? Or it is that once the bonds are broken up it will no rearrange itself in the same matrix?

 

[longcity90]

Has anyone ever tried topically applying niacinamide? then on the skin.

 

Second question:

 

Did High Niacinamide Levels Cause You Depression?

[Turnbuckle]

 

Has anyone ever tried topically applying niacinamide? then on the skin.

 

Second question:

 

Did High Niacinamide Levels Cause You Depression?

 

 

 

Nicotinamide is sold in topical creams. I tried one years ago and saw nothing of interest. As for niacinamide causing depression, that seems possible if you take large doses without ribose. Ribose supplementation is known to reduce depression, so if you use up the limited body supply with nicotinamide supplementation, you could do the reverse.

[Empiricus]

 

Has anyone ever tried topically applying niacinamide? then on the skin.

 

Second question:

 

Did High Niacinamide Levels Cause You Depression?

 

 

I've taken very high doses of niacinamide without riboside many times and never observed depression as a side effect.      I agree the combination with riboside has a mood lifting effect.   

[stephen_b]

Any thoughts on the utility of low impact endurance exercise during the protocol? I'm thinking of 45-60 minutes of low heart rate excercise.

[zorba990]

That makes sense, in light of the protocol's objectives.

Thoughts on leucine (source):
1. Taking it with a meal leads to a minimal blood plasma increase due to it competing with other aminos, so it seems to be a better idea to take it on an empty stomach. Maybe others knew that, but I haven't seen it discussed.
2. It competes with dopamine precursors, so can leave you tired out/feeling blah. I have noticed this one. The suggestion is to take it with after a workout. I wonder if taking tyrosine at the same time could prevent this effect.

Tyrosine and Leucine compete for BBB transport (large essential neutral amino acids) so what you would want to do is take Tyrosine pre workout so it gets in an acts to enhance dopamine then take the Leucine 2-4 hours later.
Likewise, you may wish to use Trypotphan before bed far from any Leucine in order to enhance the Serotonin / DMT systems.


from : https://academic.oup.../1/218S/4664120

"Facilitative transport of large essential neutral amino acids: system L1.

Early studies of transport in vitro revealed a distinct pattern of LNAA uptake by brain: movement of essential neutral amino acids (NAAs) from blood to brain was greater than nonessential NAAs (39,40); the movements of the latter were minimal (44). Transport was facilitative, Na+-independent and NAAs were preferred (44). Therefore, the carrier seems to belong to the L-system (leucine preferring) originally described by Oxender and Christensen (46), and it is probably the high affinity form currently referred to as L1 (7,47–49). Measurements in membranes indicate L1 is present in both membranes in a 2:1 ratio (luminal:abluminal) (37,45). The substrates carried by L1 include leucine, valine, methionine, histidine, isoleucine, tyrosine, tryptophan, phenylalanine, and threonine, most of which are essential. The affinity constants (Km) are in the μmol/L range and similar to the plasma concentrations (7). Glutamine has also been described as a substrate of L1, but glutamine transport is not completely inhibited by 2-aminobicyclo (2,2,1)-heptane–2-carboxylic acid (BCH), a specific inhibitor of the L1 system. Therefore it seems likely that glutamine transport is also transported by system n (2 and see below).

L1 is undoubtedly the most important source by which essential NAAs gain access to the brain. Fernstrom and Wurtman (50) demonstrated the important role of the L1-system and the competition among LNAAs by showing that brain tryptophan and serotonin contents were correlated with the ratio of tryptophan:LNAA that exist in plasma. They concluded that competition between tryptophan and other LNAAs for entry to the brain is an important factor in determining the content of serotonin in the brain."

Edited by zorba990, 10 October 2020 - 09:22 PM.

[pheolix]

I just though I would note interesting changes that may be associated with the protocol.

 

I'm 55 and I came across this protocol last year and did 25 cycles then and after a break another 15 cycles this year.   I had to start the protocol on low dosages otherwise I felt wiped out and have only been able to reach the full dosages of N + M for the last 10 cycles.

 

Over the last month I've noticed a number of the grey hairs on my head and chest are brown near the root and grey at the tip.  The brown sections are 3-5cms long and the remainder of the hair is grey. 

 

I haven't changed my diet significantly in the last few years.  For exercise, I mainly do short runs a few times a week and two HIT on bike or rebounder plus some static holds/planks.  Over the last year I have lost  abdomen mass, 82 kg -> 78kg, but while I am in good shape i don't necessarily associate that with the protocol. 

 

 

Edited by pheolix, 19 October 2020 - 02:48 PM.