2284 replies to this topic

[Old grandpa]

Got the supps, starting the protocol. Mixed 1 gr Niacinamide, probably closer to 2 grams ribose (came with a 5 gram scoop so I guessed), 1 gram AKG, 100 mg niacin (have a bottle might as well use it up), into a small amount of warm water. Turnbuckle didn't warn us but that's some nasty tasting stuff. I waited about 15 minutes and took a 20mg pqq cap. I take melatonin for sleep and I don't recall anything about it blocking or stopping fusion. I tried searching but I didn't find anything. I might skip it tonight and see how I sleep, unless someone knowledgeable wants to weigh in.

[Old grandpa]

I have some fisetin and apigenin. Took 100 mg apigenin and 300 mg fisetin (last 3 in the bottle so what the heck).

Not trying to turn the thread lurid but just finished making love to my wife (it's for science honey!) No issues, maybe a little more tired than usual. Don't have any weights to do the curls to failure, so until I do results will be subjective. But this will be the last one that mentions my sex life, I promise.

Found a thread on melatonin possibly regenerating the thymus and poster R. Wigham posted some interesting studies. One said melatonin was more aligned with fusion, so I'll be dropping it on fission days unless I absolutely can't sleep without it. I've only been taking it for a month or so but it does help. Also, I have tinnitus so I'll monitor and report any changes in that as well.

Final note, I'm doing an alternate day fasting regimen. I'm aligning the fasting days with the fission days. I'm eating only one meal of around 600 calories on fasting days, usually a salad and a protein source. I use Primal Kitchen dressing made with avocado oil, which is low in stearic acid. I'll also avoid high Stearic acid meat on fission days, sticking with poultry.

[Old grandpa]

No issues with sleep, I actually slept like a rock, but I woke up feeling like I got hit by a train.

I will probably post my fusion experience on the first day then only post if something notable happens.

I'm taking some pictures so I have some before and after shots. Trying a few different interventions besides this one; losing weight, reducing gray, age spot on my face, etc. Haha, I won't post the scary before pics until I (hopefully) have some nice after pics.

[CTraylor]

I did 17 cycles while at 600 ft altitude. I am 65. Using the curls to fail method (using a gallon jug of water), I hadn't completed. The results were reduced appetite, rock solid energy during the day and about 25% improvement in power measurements while bicycle riding.

 

At the end of October I moved to 6650 ft altitude specifically for the biking. I experienced shortness of breath while walking to adjust to the reduced O2 (25% less). After 1 week, I setup the bike on a smart trainer and tested myself. Easy riding was fine. I tried to test max, short term power and my lungs felt like they were being ripped out!

 

After 6 weeks, I could do short, med. & long term power. Medium and long term power were down about 10% and short was down 25%.

 

At 8 weeks I did a normal fission cycle. I woke up every 2 hours and started the day with a headache. I was too weak to do the curls to fail and didn't feel well. 15 hours after taking fission in the evening I threw up--a total purge of an empty system. Over the phone, my son reminded me that I was at 25% less O2 and all my mitochondria were disassembled doing QC! I made my chocolate with GMS and slowly ate it. The desire to purge faded within 5 minutes of starting to slowly consume the GMS & chocolate. At 30 min. I took the AKG & PQQ without problem. I napped and slept for 2 hours at a time until the next morning where I felt "normal" and had an easy breakfast.

 

I have reached a new level of energy & O2 efficiency.

 

At 9 weeks, I'm now walking 3.75 mph for an hour with heavier breath only if going up hills. I joined Zwift and rode the Watopia circuit and had a blast. I was back to the medium and long term power I had at 600 ft altitude. I haven't tested the short term (15 sec) power yet.

 

I'm going to do another cycle next week, but I'll try half dose. My son speculates that I could do the full dose now that I've had the strong reaction, but I'll do the half dose and see first.

 

[Turnbuckle]

 

At the end of October I moved to 6650 ft altitude specifically for the biking. ...At 8 weeks I did a normal fission cycle. I woke up every 2 hours and started the day with a headache. I was too weak to do the curls to fail and didn't feel well. 15 hours after taking fission in the evening I threw up--a total purge of an empty system. Over the phone, my son reminded me that I was at 25% less O2 and all my mitochondria were disassembled doing QC! I made my chocolate with GMS and slowly ate it. The desire to purge faded within 5 minutes of starting to slowly consume the GMS & chocolate. At 30 min. I took the AKG & PQQ without problem. I napped and slept for 2 hours at a time until the next morning where I felt "normal" and had an easy breakfast.

 

 

Your son could be right. Hypoxia due to high altitude could make fission/biogenesis too powerful, not something I had considered. The following paragraph suggests caution--

 

The energy released from the transfer of electrons is utilized by complexes I, III, and IV to pump protons against their electrochemical gradient and establish a proton-motive force that drives ATP production through complex... Although most electrons complete this journey, a small proportion slip from the chain and bind directly to molecular O2 to produce superoxide (Brand, 2016). When O2 becomes limiting, the electron transport chain is inhibited and electron slip becomes more common, leading to reduced ATP production and the overproduction of ROS... Consequently, prolonged periods of hypoxia are associated with energy depletion and oxidative stress, which can ultimately lead to cell death.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC8273549/

 

[johnhemming]

AFAIK it is the shift from Normoxia to Hypoxia that upregulates HIF hence remaining stably in a hypoxic environment should not have a continuing HIF effect.

[Old grandpa]

Interesting, CTraylor. I envy your fitness. I'm 57 so in 8 years who knows? I'm terribly out of shape and I'm wondering what curls to failure would show. Aren't I going to increase fairly rapidly just from starting an exercise regimen? I haven't worked out in 35 years and my only exercise is walking the jobsite to see how projects are going. Seems like losing weight and getting off my butt is going to improve my baseline regardless of this protocol.

Funny you mention headaches. I had a splitting one today all day, like a pressure and I could really feel it in my temple when I bent over. That's rare for me as I never get headaches. I ate a steak fajita with 50 grams dark chocolate for dessert and did a half gram of GMS, along with the rest of the protocol. I added BROQ (20 mg. Sulphoraphane, not precursor.) My blood pressure is slightly higher, 137/84, but my heart rate has been high, around 99 bpm for the last hour. On the bright side, my headache disappeared about 20 after taking mito2 supps.

[CTraylor]

Interesting, CTraylor. I envy your fitness. I'm 57 so in 8 years who knows? I'm terribly out of shape and I'm wondering what curls to failure would show. Aren't I going to increase fairly rapidly just from starting an exercise regimen? I haven't worked out in 35 years and my only exercise is walking the jobsite to see how projects are going. Seems like losing weight and getting off my butt is going to improve my baseline regardless of this protocol.

Funny you mention headaches. I had a splitting one today all day, like a pressure and I could really feel it in my temple when I bent over. That's rare for me as I never get headaches. I ate a steak fajita with 50 grams dark chocolate for dessert and did a half gram of GMS, along with the rest of the protocol. I added BROQ (20 mg. Sulphoraphane, not precursor.) My blood pressure is slightly higher, 137/84, but my heart rate has been high, around 99 bpm for the last hour. On the bright side, my headache disappeared about 20 after taking mito2 supps.

When I was 55 and out of shape I started to walk a 3 mile loop every evening. In a couple of months, it was a mix of jog & walk. Then jog the whole way. Next was jog with sections of run, and in about 9 months, I could run the whole way.

 

Dedication & patience pay off.

 

Were you on a fission day when you had the headache?

[Old grandpa]

Last post I'm allowed but yes, today was my first fission day. Low energy all day, felt really bad when I woke up. I added 100 mg. Apigenin and 300mg. Fisetin to the mito1 supps.

Yes, I'm hoping to turn my health around. I tore my hip labrum in March and I'm just now getting to the point where I can move without serious pain. I know this isn't the thread for it, but can anyone direct me to a thread that may have ideas for healing the labrum?

[mike20g]

Just a quick remark about the unusual headaches - my coworker got this unusual headache couple of days ago. It was the first time he experienced these headaches and while he attributed it to the new physical exercise he tried, it turned out to be covid related.

[CTraylor]

Just a quick remark about the unusual headaches - my coworker got this unusual headache couple of days ago. It was the first time he experienced these headaches and while he attributed it to the new physical exercise he tried, it turned out to be covid related.

 

Did your coworker do the fission protocol at 6600 ft altitude? Did their headache disappear with breaking the fission protocol with the fusion protocol?

[mike20g]

No, it was not related to protocol. Are you sure that your headache is related to protocol, fission, altitude? His headache became better with time, as he thought because he was taking a rest and some supplements... Spoke with him today,he is doing better..

[mike20g]

My previous comments and this one are not off topic, just because you take some supplements and follow some protocols does not mean that the theory that comes behind this protocol has anything to do with reality..

[CTraylor]

No, it was not related to protocol. Are you sure that your headache is related to protocol, fission, altitude? His headache became better with time, as he thought because he was taking a rest and some supplements... Spoke with him today,he is doing better..

 

How old are you? What is your medical/scientific background? Have you done the protocol that this thread is about? Have you read much of this thread?

 

What evidence do you have that I might have contracted covid? Are you proposing that you have psychic abilities to asses my competence from reading a post?

[Old grandpa]

I guess I was a good boy. It says I can make one more reply.
Thanks mike20g. I've had both alpha and delta; I suppose it could be omicron. It left 20 minutes after starting fusion supps but that could be coincidence. Won't know until I've done this awhile.

I'm wondering. Wouldn't the worst mitochondria get taken out first? If you prolong fission will more healthy mitos be taken out? If this is true it would seem best to do the shortest fission protocol possible and do it more often.

[CTraylor]

My experience of my first cycle (when I was at 600 ft altitude) was the worst for me. Many others also shared a similar first time. All the following cycles showed an improvement in various, measurable factors (functional threshold power, heart rate and blood pressure) and less quantitative (weight, pep in my step).

 

If you recall from the thread, Turnbuckle warns not to do fission when you may be coming down with something as forcing the mitochondria into a deep quality control will make you more likely to become sick.

 

Think of mitochondria more like a group organism. Individuals in the group can each do the job, but as a group the job is done more efficiently. During fission, you identify the slackers and target them for recycling. The PQQ assists with creating more new, high quality individuals. If you have a high percentage of slackers, you need to do many iterations to fill up with all quality individuals. Fusion helps you create a larger body of individuals (but you're making copies of the new & improved as well as the yet to be recycled slackers), so you're starting at a higher point. 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

CTraylor, I think that mike20, in post #1990, is merely pointing out the possibility of a "post hoc,ergo propter hoc" fallacy. I suspect he wasn't suggesting that covid-19 was involved, but merely that the "logic" of ascribing the effects of the protocol to subsequent conditions might be in error.

 

mike20's example could easily have ended in "it turned out to be the fact that his wife bopped him on the head with a baseball bat". Which also would serve to make his point. Not that he was suggesting that a similar scenario might have occurred to you.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that 9 weeks of altitude acclimation coupled with exercise, but without the protocol, could easily have produced the positive effects that you experienced. What effect, if any, that the protocol alone had on your exercise improvement is unknown, and making assertions about the protocol being the primary causative factor for your gains (if that's what you're suggesting) would lie more in the realm of supposition rather than of demonstrable fact.

 

[CTraylor]

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that 9 weeks of altitude acclimation coupled with exercise, but without the protocol, could easily have produced the positive effects that you experienced. What effect, if any, that the protocol alone had on your exercise improvement is unknown, and making assertions about the protocol being the primary causative factor for your gains (if that's what you're suggesting) would lie more in the realm of supposition rather than of demonstrable fact.

 

Given that each of the self experimenters participating in this thread is an experiment of 1, your comment can be made with every single one of us. All of us are choosing to share our experiences to the best of our ability for the benefit of other self experimenters. Are you part of that population? If you are hoping for n=1000 data here, then you are in the wrong thread.

[johnhemming]

Somebody asked for a link to the issue of changes in PaO2 / ROS. This is one

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/24002459/

 

Edited by johnhemming, 07 January 2022 - 06:36 AM.

[Old grandpa]

Just a quick update- GMS reliably raises my bp at a half gram dose, but only slightly from an average of 117/78 to 135\85. My heart rate also goes up, about 20bpm, but both effects wane in a couple hours. I'm going to try a full gram next time. No one answered my question about the switch to GMS from stearic acid but I'm assuming it has to do with the shorter half life allowing quicker turn around between fission and fusion. So I'm also thinking of 50 grams of dark chocolate and 20 mg sulphoraphane and just watch the time before starting the next round of fission, if the GMS raises bp too much.

One other weird effect, my tinnitus fades on fission days and really roars back on fusion days. It might be placebo or coincidence. Hopefully I'll know more after a few more rounds.

[Old grandpa]

Come to think of it, the GMS bp raising effect could just be me being nervous because I'm afraid it might. A self fulfilling prophecy. I might try the GMS a few more times and see if I can take my mind off it with some relaxation techniques.

[Turnbuckle]

Come to think of it, the GMS bp raising effect could just be me being nervous because I'm afraid it might. A self fulfilling prophecy. I might try the GMS a few more times and see if I can take my mind off it with some relaxation techniques.

 

 

Individuals will vary, but I've found that fusion reliably raises BP while fission lowers it. Stearic acid brownies are safer if you have a tendency to hypertension, as the rise is so slow that you can do something about it with medications. With GMS, the rise can be very rapid. The first time I tried it, I took several grams and my systolic shot well past 200 within a few minutes. 

[smithx]

Turnbuckle: what do you think of this study in relation to the fission/fusion discussion (if anything)?

 

Amelioration of Alzheimer’s disease pathology by mitophagy inducers identified via machine learning and a cross-species workflow

https://www.nature.c...551-021-00819-5

 

Kaempferol seems to be easily available and likely quite safe (with some other potential benefits like cancer prevention: https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/31248102/ ).

 

 

 

[Old grandpa]

Individuals will vary, but I've found that fusion reliably raises BP while fission lowers it.

This could explain why my tinnitus fades on fission days and comes back on fusion days. I was expecting the opposite.
Curious, do you also experience the rise in heart rate?

As a side note on those who might wish to lower bp naturally, mine was around 170/100 when I began juicing celery (way before the current fad started by the "medical medium"), taking celery seed extract, olive leaf extract, and l-citrulline. My systolic number stayed high while diastolic lowered fairly quickly, so much so that I was googling "isolated high systolic bp". It took about 3 months before the systolic number began dropping. YMMV but it's something to be aware of.

[Old grandpa]

Turnbuckle, I know this is off topic, but you did mention it in this thread. What was your reasoning behind lysine water for the derma roller? Is it because of its role in collagen production or something else? Do you still use it?

[platypus]

I tore my hip labrum in March and I'm just now getting to the point where I can move without serious pain. I know this isn't the thread for it, but can anyone direct me to a thread that may have ideas for healing the labrum?

Off-topic in this thread but might want to explore healing peptides like for example BPC-157 and TB-500.

 

[Fafner55]

Yes, I'm hoping to turn my health around. I tore my hip labrum in March and I'm just now getting to the point where I can move without serious pain. I know this isn't the thread for it, but can anyone direct me to a thread that may have ideas for healing the labrum?

 

A more appropriate thread is "Stem cell self-renewal with C60". I had a painful knee injury that showed no sign of recovery for nearly 9 months. Three rounds of Turnbuckle stem cell protocol led to its complete recovery in a few weeks.

https://www.longecit...ndpost&p=850662

[Old grandpa]

Turnbuckle seems to be quite the original thinker. Haha, reading through his threads I see I'm not the only one that bombards him with questions. I'm surprised he has time to answer any of them.

But there are many truly intelligent people here and I'm glad I found this place. Thanks to everyone offering me suggestions. I will try to remain at least tangentially on topic and always consider all opinions.

[Wookie]

 

You may think 90% damage is very high and that you couldn't survive with that much, but it's not as bad as it seems. There are 37 genes in mtDNA, and every one of thousands of mtDNA in a cell could have one of those genes randomly mutated, and yet the cell get along with only a slight to moderate decline due to enzyme sharing with other mtDNA. If every one is genetically damaged, however, there is no coming back. With 100% epigenetic damage, it can come back, at least with the new protocol.

 

 

 

 

How would you know if everyone is damaged? Would that be death basically?

[Wookie]

 

 

"You may think 90% damage is very high and that you couldn't survive with that much, but it's not as bad as it seems. There are 37 genes in mtDNA, and every one of thousands of mtDNA in a cell could have one of those genes randomly mutated, and yet the cell get along with only a slight to moderate decline due to enzyme sharing with other mtDNA. If every one is genetically damaged, however, there is no coming back. With 100% epigenetic damage, it can come back, at least with the new protocol."

 

 

 

 

How would you know if everyone is damaged? Would that be death basically?

 

 

This was a quote from turnbuckle. I was just looking for clarification.

 

Does anyone know how much of a time buffer if any is required before or after mito 1, mito 2 in regards to other supplements we take?