2287 replies to this topic

[cbkid]

Is there a list of things that promote fission/fusion? 

 

I take many supplements and I am now afraid that they will cancel each other out. It seems logistically impractical as there are supplements that need to be dosed daily. 

 

If I understand correctly you would dose any antioxidants with C60 (fusion), and then no antioxidants except glutathione if needed, during fission? 

 

It would be great if anybody can tell me what category the following fall into:

 

Pterostilbene

Tributyrin

Ginger 

Exogenous ketones

Quercetin 

SOD

Lycopene

Astaxanthin

Tocotreniols

Pomegranate extract

Shilajit

Citrulline Malate 

Beta-alanine

Vitamin C

Acetyl-L-Carnitine 

Curcumin

Cinnamon

Berberine

Panax Ginseng

Lion's Mane

Cordyceps

Rhodiola 

Ashwagandha 

Tianpetine

Fasoracetam

Coluracetam

Bacopa

7,8-DIHYDROXYFLAVONE

 

I am also confused as to why Stearic acid/C60 is taken on an empty stomach when it is dissolved in olive oil/fat soluble. It would be quite difficult to time in the morning as I have other supplements that need to be taken with an empty stomach. Should I take the other supplements first, followed by Stearic acid/C60 30 mins later? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

Is there a list of things that promote fission/fusion? 

 

I take many supplements and I am now afraid that they will cancel each other out. It seems logistically impractical as there are supplements that need to be dosed daily. 

 

If I understand correctly you would dose any antioxidants with C60 (fusion), and then no antioxidants except glutathione if needed, during fission? 

 

It would be great if anybody can tell me what category the following fall into:

 

Pterostilbene

Tributyrin

Ginger 

Exogenous ketones

Quercetin 

SOD

Lycopene

Astaxanthin

Tocotreniols

Pomegranate extract

Shilajit

Citrulline Malate 

Beta-alanine

Vitamin C

Acetyl-L-Carnitine 

Curcumin

Cinnamon

Berberine

Panax Ginseng

Lion's Mane

Cordyceps

Rhodiola 

Ashwagandha 

Tianpetine

Fasoracetam

Coluracetam

Bacopa

7,8-DIHYDROXYFLAVONE

 

I am also confused as to why Stearic acid/C60 is taken on an empty stomach when it is dissolved in olive oil/fat soluble. It would be quite difficult to time in the morning as I have other supplements that need to be taken with an empty stomach. Should I take the other supplements first, followed by Stearic acid/C60 30 mins later? 

 

Drop all that stuff.

[Graviton]

C60+ stearic acid or

C60 + fish oil

 

As far as we are aware, it would be hard to get a pure source of stearic acid. So, maybe, going with good quality of fish oil might be an alternative option.

 

You can find some phytochemicals which may promote mitochondrial fusion, but their effectiveness is vague.

(not sure if these compounds (salidroside, honokiol, sulforaphane etc..) are effective in vivo for mitochondrial fusion).

 

Edited by Graviton, 17 September 2018 - 12:49 AM.

[cbkid]

Ok so I am confused as to what your current protocol is. In the other thread you updated the first post, and it seems to imply that you're back to using olive oil instead of MCT?

 

Also, for Hydroxytyrosol do you use a magnetic stirrer to incorporate it? Where do you buy it? Is the 1400mg/kg referring to your bodyweight? or per kg of the oil? It would amount to 91 grams per dose for me, if that is the case and would be extremely expensive. 

 

If anyone can make a step by step guide, with measurements I would be happy to even pay for it. It is impractical to go through all of the threads and is difficult to parse. 

[Nate-2004]

Drop all that stuff.

 

I thought cinnamon was good for upregulating pink1/parkin and would help with targeting dysfunctional mitochondria.

[Turnbuckle]

I thought cinnamon was good for upregulating pink1/parkin and would help with targeting dysfunctional mitochondria.

 

Every supplement has a marketing story behind it and thus people end up taking a handfuls of pills every day and aren't any better off than when they started. I used to do that too, but now I only take supplements as part of a logically designed protocol to a specific end. 

[spike]

Ok so I am confused as to what your current protocol is. In the other thread you updated the first post, and it seems to imply that you're back to using olive oil instead of MCT?

 

Also, for Hydroxytyrosol do you use a magnetic stirrer to incorporate it? Where do you buy it? Is the 1400mg/kg referring to your bodyweight? or per kg of the oil? It would amount to 91 grams per dose for me, if that is the case and would be extremely expensive. 

 

If anyone can make a step by step guide, with measurements I would be happy to even pay for it. It is impractical to go through all of the threads and is difficult to parse. 

 

Links to the latest editions of his protocols is on Turnbuckle's profile page, mito protocol:

 

 

 

• Manipulating mitochondrial dynamics 
https://www.longecit...drial-dynamics/

One of the primary causes of ageing is the build-up of defective mitochondria. These are the powerhouses of the cell, and each cell has about a thousand. This protocol takes the natural process of mitochondrial fission and fusion and ramps it up to create a heightened period of fission/mitophagy where bad mitochondrial DNA is identified and removed, and then a heightened period of fusion/biogenesis where new mitochondrial DNA is generated. By cycling through fission and fusion according to the protocol, the population of mitochondria can be restored to a more youthful condition.

See Post #977 for a protocol (I went through a number them over six months).
https://www.longecit...-33#entry851034

 

 

Has anyone noticed any improvements in sleep after trying this protocol?

[cbkid]

Every supplement has a marketing story behind it and thus people end up taking a handfuls of pills every day and aren't any better off than when they started. I used to do that too, but now I only take supplements as part of a logically designed protocol to a specific end. 

 

Ok now I get the rationale behind your previous reply. Thanks Turnbucle!

 

Links to the latest editions of his protocols is on Turnbuckle's profile page, mito protocol:

 

 

 

Has anyone noticed any improvements in sleep after trying this protocol?

 

I appreciate it Spike!

[Kentavr]

I thought cinnamon was good for upregulating pink1/parkin and would help with targeting dysfunctional mitochondria.

 

Cinnamon contains coumarin, a vitamin K antagonist.

 

Turnbuckle is right when it says that you should not drink pills with handfuls.

I will publish evidence of this theory later, when I publish my protocol.

 

I try to carefully approach its development. 

Edited by Kentavr, 19 September 2018 - 07:15 AM.

[Nate-2004]

Cinnamon contains coumarin, a vitamin K antagonist.

 

Turnbuckle is right when it says that you should not drink pills with handfuls.

I will publish evidence of this theory later, when I publish my protocol.

 

I try to carefully approach its development. 

 

No, not ceylon cinnamon, it's very low in coumarin. Also see this post and this one (from this thread) where he suggested it. This isn't even what cinnamon is marketed for, it's primarily marketed for food, and for supplements it's marketed for blood sugar control, not as some part of a mitochondrial control protocol. There's only a single study suggesting pink1/parkin upregulation, which from what I understand is important for mitophagy (QC) in the fission part of the protocol.

 

So you can see why I'm a bit confused here.

Edited by Nate-2004, 19 September 2018 - 12:50 PM.

[lost69]

sigma stearic acid W303518 group buy reached more than 16kg, i emailed today for quotation and delivery time 

 

Andey 2kg

questforlife 2kg

aconita 2kg

lost69 me 2kg

coolewater 1kg

Acetylnordopatoninol 2kg

PatrickK 2kg

Ducky-001 2kg

ambivalent 3kg

[biggyrat]

sigma stearic acid W303518 group buy reached more than 16kg, i emailed today for quotation and delivery time 

 

Andey 2kg

questforlife 2kg

aconita 2kg

lost69 me 2kg

coolewater 1kg

Acetylnordopatoninol 2kg

PatrickK 2kg

Ducky-001 2kg

ambivalent 3kg

I also will take 2kg.    Thanks... 

[rarefried]

sigma stearic acid W303518 group buy reached more than 16kg, i emailed today for quotation and delivery time 

 

Andey 2kg

questforlife 2kg

aconita 2kg

lost69 me 2kg

coolewater 1kg

Acetylnordopatoninol 2kg

PatrickK 2kg

Ducky-001 2kg

ambivalent 3kg

 

Please also count me in for 2kg.  

Thanks

[Fafner55]

Drop all that stuff.

 

In support Turnbuckle's advice for not taking a lot of supplements, I expanded on Mitteldorf's list of supplements that affect the lifespan of mice.

https://joshmitteldo...-trials-part-i/

 

My list, attached with references, shows little evidence that any supplement targeting a limited number of pathways has more than an minor effect on lifespan. Significant benefits come instead from calorie restriction, senescent cell clearance, and probably stem cell replenishment, mitophagy and autophagy (staying healthy at a cellular level).

Attached Files

•  Lifespan Increase in Rodents From Various Interventions_2018-09.pdf   53.17KB   51 downloads

[Kentavr]

In support Turnbuckle's advice for not taking a lot of supplements, I expanded on Mitteldorf's list of supplements that affect the lifespan of mice.

https://joshmitteldo...-trials-part-i/

 

My list, attached with references, shows little evidence that any supplement targeting a limited number of pathways has more than an minor effect on lifespan. Significant benefits come instead from calorie restriction, senescent cell clearance, and probably stem cell replenishment, mitophagy and autophagy (staying healthy at a cellular level).

 

 

And where are the Sartans ???

 

http://nestarenie.ru...oprotektor.html

 

The genetic blockade of prescription angiotensin 2 gives an increase in life of 26% in normal mice! 

 

Sartans do the same!

 

Only they can have additional advantages, like Telmisartan. Read the link - a lot of useful information!

 

Edited by Kentavr, 20 September 2018 - 06:45 AM.

[Kentavr]

Of all Sartans, telmisartan:

 

• Blocks angiotensin receptors 2 - 80 mg per day Telmisartan blocks all receptors in the body!
• The most powerful activator PPAR-γ - stronger than losartan approximately 20 times
• reduces the ability of RAGE to bind the final glycation products in hypertensive patients
• activates AMPK
• inhibits NF-KB

 

And all this in one molecule!

 

Half-life from the body is 20 hours, so you can take the medicine once a day

 

Telmisartan is a non-selective antagonist blocker angiotensin 2, so it blocks all receptors. 

 

Also, the Sartans increase the expression of the protein klotho. According to some sources, the activation of this protein has the most powerful effect on prolonging life (not counting C60evoo, of course).

It is possible that telmisartan does this too.

 

And the mice only blocked the retsepory angiotensin 2 - and they lived 26% longer! Can you imagine what telmisartan can do?   

 

And further:

This medicine is inexpensive - it is mass-produced.

This medicine is already used by people - there is no sense in conducting additional tests for safety.

Edited by Kentavr, 20 September 2018 - 07:16 AM.

[Fafner55]

And where are the Sartans ???

 

 

My table of interventions affecting lifespan will be updated from time to time but will never be exhaustive. I'll look into Sartans at the first opportunity. Just now I'm about to leave for a vacation.

[Andey]

...

 

  Why don't you post this info in a separate thread? Its obviously not related to Manipulating mitochondrial dynamics protocol.

[Fafner55]

  Why don't you post this info in a separate thread? Its obviously not related to Manipulating mitochondrial dynamics protocol.

 

I should, but I don't have time in my schedule to respond to many questions or inputs. Maybe in future.

[lost69]

 i just receive quotation for 25kg order:18€ per kg plus 22€ shipment to me plus 22% vat

 

16kg is not listed anymore on sigma website so no discount vs 8kg

 

group buy reached 22kg

Andey 2kg

questforlife 2kg

aconita 2kg

lost69 me 2kg

coolewater 1kg

Acetylnordopatoninol 2kg

PatrickK 2kg

Ducky-001 2kg

ambivalent 3kg

biggyrat 2kg

rarefried 2kg

 

keep in mind that the study to promote fusion using food grade sigma aldrich stearic acid was 24g

[biggyrat]

Hi... trying to understand something. If the protocol calls for:

 

 Day 4: Fusion/biogenesis

 

Morning

Stearic acid (fusion) — 5-10 g,  

 

 

then what would the dose of the Sigma product be ?

 

 

Thanks in advance for any light on this... 

[lost69]

Hi... trying to understand something. If the protocol calls for:

 

 Day 4: Fusion/biogenesis

 

Morning

Stearic acid (fusion) — 5-10 g,  

 

 

then what would the dose of the Sigma product be ?

 

 

Thanks in advance for any light on this... 

 

5-10g is the dose we tried here to start mito fusion

 

24g is the dose used to promote fission in this study

https://www.nature.c...467-018-05614-6

where sigma stearic W303518 acid was used

 

i have no idea which is the best dose if 10 or 24g, some of us will try 20-24g

[biggyrat]

Okay... thanks lost69... 

[rarefried]

Any thoughts on using curcumin and/or resveratrol as substitute(s) for jiaogulan as AMPK activator for the fission stage of this protocol?  Jiaogulan damages the quality my sleep if I take it in the afternoon or evening.  It also boosts my mood and mental sharpness in a similar way to green tea, but more intensely.  Possibly because of this positive effect of the jiaogulan, I've felt above baseline in energy and well-being (despite slightly poorer sleeping) during the 'fission' stage when using it according to the most current iteration of Turnbuckle's protocol, and so I'm thinking it might be preventing me from 'feeling' properly whether or not I'm clearing bad mitochondria.  I've tried a cycle of the protocol substituting the jiaogulan with 1000 mg 'curcumin C3 complex' + piperine and 500mg micronized resveratrol and experienced the kind of fatigue/mild flu symptoms others have described as associated with the fission stage, as well as deeper sleep, suggesting to me the protocol with that substitution might be working.  

 

refs

Curcumin 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5632657/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19665995

 

Resveratrol

https://www.ncbi.nlm...es/PMC3545644/ 

https://www.scienced...197018617303625

[Turnbuckle]

Any thoughts on using curcumin and/or resveratrol as substitute(s) for jiaogulan as AMPK activator for the fission stage of this protocol?  Jiaogulan damages the quality my sleep if I take it in the afternoon or evening.  It also boosts my mood and mental sharpness in a similar way to green tea, but more intensely.  Possibly because of this positive effect of the jiaogulan, I've felt above baseline in energy and well-being (despite slightly poorer sleeping) during the 'fission' stage when using it according to the most current iteration of Turnbuckle's protocol, and so I'm thinking it might be preventing me from 'feeling' properly whether or not I'm clearing bad mitochondria.  I've tried a cycle of the protocol substituting the jiaogulan with 1000 mg 'curcumin C3 complex' + piperine and 500mg micronized resveratrol and experienced the kind of fatigue/mild flu symptoms others have described as associated with the fission stage, as well as deeper sleep, suggesting to me the protocol with that substitution might be working.  

 

refs

Curcumin 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5632657/

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19665995

 

Resveratrol

https://www.ncbi.nlm...es/PMC3545644/ 

https://www.scienced...197018617303625

 

 

Curcumin might work, and resveratrol as well, but I will never suggest anyone use the latter, as it attacks my joints everytime I use it. And I'm not the only one. Synthetic resveratrol of high purity doesn't help, nor does DHEA.

[tolerant]

Five-day protocol, updated

 

 

Day 1-2: Fission/mitophagy

 

Morning

...

Jiaogulan leaf (AMPK activator) — 1g

...

 

I've got this Jiaogulan product at home. It doesn't specifically say "leaf", like for example this product does, as well as this product, which was mentioned earlier in this thread. So should I be getting a new Jiaogulan product?

[tolerant]

I wish I could search individual threads.

 

You pretty much can if you enter the name of the thread and the search terms in the Google Custom Search text box in the top right-hand corner.

[Graviton]

Is there any recommendation for a food grade stearic acid source that can be obtained in the U.S.?

One of the mango butter that listed is on Amazon claims to be food-grade but appears to be refined. I am not sure what kind of a refining process they use.

 

Is there a user who lives in the U.S, and can buy/obtain pure food grade stearic acid?

Edited by Graviton, 14 October 2018 - 06:41 AM.

[tolerant]

I used stearic acid from Spectrum Chemical. The bottle doesn't give the purity and their website doesn't have the COA as I bought it 15 years ago. I've written to them asking about it. The SDS gives a stearic acid range of 40-60% with a present price of $100/500g. They have another version where the SDS says it's 100% stearic acid, and that's listed at $313/500 g. Recently I bought several bottles of what is claimed to be 99% purity from a small distributor selling through Amazon--Eisen-Golden Laboratories. I've already made brownies from it but haven't tried them yet. They seem a bit sticker than before, so I wonder about the purity. There are Chinese companies selling stearic acid at 99% purity for around $1000 per ton, so by "purity" they must mean something else.

 

You used this to obtain results that you did even though its SDS expressly says that it is half stearic acid and half palmitic acid? What's the reasoning behind that? Was that before the health hazards of palmitic acid were reported?

 

On another matter, how much sulforaphane would be equivalent to 10 g stearic acid for the purposes of inducing fusion, whether it be for this protocol or for the stem cell protocol?

Edited by tolerant, 18 October 2018 - 01:19 AM.

[tolerant]

With this latest protocol, is it alright to add IP6 to the fission stack, presumably because it makes sure that the stack gets into the brain? And is exercise still 1-2 hours after taking N+R? Or it isn't necessary? Turnbuckle often mentioned taking greater than "stoichiometric dose" of ribose. I always thought that meant taking more ribose than niacinamide. If that is correct, why the switch to 2 g of ribose?