2284 replies to this topic

[tolerant]

Also, when it is said that no antioxidants to be taken during fission, does this mean no antioxidant supplements, such as Vit C, or no antioxidants from food too? Is it alright to have a cup of tea? An apple? A glass of milk? So many foods contain antioxidants that if you avoid those foods (and avoid foods containing stearic acid) during fission, there's hardly anything left to eat.

[Turnbuckle]

You are wasting your time with all these questions, tolerant. At your age of 38 you are unlikely to benefit from this treatment unless you have been a smoker. So I suggest you try the high fission supplements once, and if you get little or no response, you don't need it. That's also how to tell when you are done--when you stop seeing much difference between fission and fusion.

 

And once again, randomly trying every supplement or protocol you come across is not the answer to your problems. Get your genetics checked first. It may give you a clue.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 20 October 2018 - 09:33 AM.

[tolerant]

I actually started your latest protocol and got a dramatic response on Day 1. I took all the substances except for Apigenin, which is yet to arrive. Also, the Fisetin I took expired more than 12 months ago.

I did weight training two hours after taking all the substances. It was a leg workout and on my main exercise (leg press), I could do only nine reps as opposed to 15 I did with the same weight during my previous leg workout. So a slight reduction, and I wouldn't attribute it to the protocol anyway because of the inusually large amount of walking I had done during the course of five days prior to the workout. So my legs were definitely pre-exhausted going into the workout.

About half an hour after the workout I felt an unusual sense of well-being. The darkest thoughts were totally vanquished. I noticed myself focusing my attention on flowers, which I never do. I thought that this was strange given my assumption that on fission days you're supposed to feel miserable. I thought the sense of the well-being might be due to Joaogulan, but at that time it had been three hours after I took it, so such a long delay didn't make sense.

And the, about an hour later I totally crashed. I found myself pinned to the bed as if I wad physically attached to it, totally unable to get up. I needed to go to the bathroom but just couldn't move.I don't known what to call that feeling, since I don't remember ever experiencing it before. It was some type of extreme farigue. That's I when I realised that the protocol was working. Then I fell asleep for an hour or so and after I woke up I slowly came out of that feeling of extreme fatigue and was able to get up and move around. I must add that this was purely a physical feeling. It didn't make me feel miserable. On the contrary it was almost fun to experience something so out of the ordinary and I was glad to experiencen it because to me it was an indication that the protocol was working and rejuvenation had started.

The next day I woke up feeling emotionally miserable like I usually do. I continued to follow the protocol but didn't feel well enough to go to the gym. So nothing dramatic happened on that day, and the same goes for the following day. On Days 2 and 3 I did feel emotionally and cognitively worse than I do on average, but it definitely wasn't anything out of the ordinary like it was on Day 1.

So now I'm to day four of the five-day protocol and I have a dilemma of what I should take for fusion. I have stearic acid which is not food grade. I took it once before and there were no issues I other than pain in the abdomen 12 hours post-ingestion. I was about to take it again this morning, but even the smell of it is like a laundry chemical smell and I can't bring myself to take it.

Instead, aboit an hour ago I ate 40 g of 90% cocoa chocolate which should net me about 7 g of stearic acid. I know that whether or not eating chocolate instead of taking stearic acid will work is an open question, but assuming it can, I wonder how long should the wait be between ingesting the chocolate and taking the other fusion protocol susbtances considering that chocolate must first be broken down in the stomach. If I don't get a response to this post in time, I will wait 2-3 hours.

I also have some BroccoMax, and I noticed that earlier in this thread Turnbuckle said that sulforaphane can definitely be taken instead of stearic acid to induce fusion, but the dose was never mentioned. So if I don't get a response in time I plan to take 2 caps of BroccoMax which should net 16 mg of sulforaphane.

[PAMPAGUY]

Posted Today, 06:12 PM

Here is something to think about.  Dr. Peter Attia just had a podcast with Dr. Sinclair and he argues that NR and all NAD precussors raise the NAD levels, but the NAD never gets out of the liver into the other parts of body..  Feels it is a waste of money and time to take precussors orally.  IV maybe.

  

• What are your thoughts on nicotinamide riboside supplementation for longevity? [1:56]
• https://peterattiamd.com/ama03/

https://www.scienced...01967?via=ihub=     Ground breaking study tracking NAD precussors in body.

Edited by PAMPAGUY, Today, 06:24 PM.

 

[Kentavr]

Posted Today, 06:12 PM

Here is something to think about. Dr. Peter Attia just had a podcast with Dr. Sinclair and he argues that NR and all NAD precussors raise the NAD levels, but the NAD never gets out of the liver into the other parts of body.. Feels it is a waste of money and time to take precussors orally. IV maybe.

• What are your thoughts on nicotinamide riboside supplementation for longevity? [1:56]
• https://peterattiamd.com/ama03/

https://www.scienced...01967?via=ihub= Ground breaking study tracking NAD precussors in body.

Edited by PAMPAGUY, Today, 06:24 PM.

Read all the information here:

https://alivebynatur...for-the-body-3/

Sublingual NMN much better

[zorba990]

Posted Today, 06:12 PM

Here is something to think about. Dr. Peter Attia just had a podcast with Dr. Sinclair and he argues that NR and all NAD precussors raise the NAD levels, but the NAD never gets out of the liver into the other parts of body.. Feels it is a waste of money and time to take precussors orally. IV maybe.

• What are your thoughts on nicotinamide riboside supplementation for longevity? [1:56]
• https://peterattiamd.com/ama03/

https://www.scienced...01967?via=ihub= Ground breaking study tracking NAD precussors in body.

Edited by PAMPAGUY, Today, 06:24 PM.

Based on the picture nam-->nad just as nr does which means taking nicotinamide as a nam precursor works. Now taking n+r as a nr precursor is another thing, but I don't think that is even necessary for the fission effect....just use us atp faster than it can be created (exercise intensely and or use up adenine reserves with n+r)

[tolerant]

This is a follow-up to my previous post. I've now done two fission/fusion cycles. Continuing from where I left off, on Day 4 of the first cycle, while running my hand over my forehead I suddenly noticed that my skin is much softer and smoother than usual. Didn't notice any other changes.

 

I then had a blank day and started my second cycle. The one chance I made is adding resveratrol and IP6 on Day 1 to partially recreate this protocol, as it supposedly promotes mito QC in the brain, and the brain is the organ that I am trying to rejuvenate. The result was that on that day I got an almighty brain fog. The brain fog sat on top of my usual cognitive impairment and was a new feeling for me. The only thing I can compare it to is taking a large dose of antihistamines which knocks you out and leaves you in a daze the following day -- it was that kind of daze. By Day 2 it was definitely gone. On Day 1, I again did gym one hour after taking the substances. Again, I didn't notice any decrease in strength. I also didn't get the unbelievable fatigue I did during the first cycle. This could be because having already done a cycle I had less defective mitochondria, or perhaps because during the first cycle I worked out legs (my biggest workout in terms of muscle mass) and during the second cycle I worked out shoulders and abs (my smallest workout).  On Day 3 (fission) of the cycle, I suddenly noticed that the skin on my feet felt much softer and smoother. The same day I noticed that I couldn't remember whether a certain event happened the previous day or two days ago. This was very alarming and concerning for me as it was a further dip in my cognition. I decided to extend fusion by another day because while I was feeling different than usual on my fission days, I wasn't feeling any better than usual on my fusion days. However, I still failed to notice any changes.

 

It has now been three days since I finished the second cycle and unfortunately that dip in cognition is still there. One day after finishing the second cycle, I was again surprised by how smooth and soft the skin on my forehead was, so it has possibly improved even further. Today, four hours after waking up I couldn't remember if I had taken supplements on waking up, and if so, which ones. This is about par for me. The distressing thing was that I couldn't remember whether or not I had taken my medication. This is below par. I attribute this to IP6, as after the first cycle (without IP6) there were no changes to my cognition.

 

Have I damaged my brain by IP6? Am I missing something on fusion days? My skin has definitely improved, but that may be the result of fission, not fusion (see this protocol and results). Am I taking enough sulforaphane? I take two caps of Broccomax (i.e. 60 mg sulforaphane glucosinolate) twice a day. I remember reading that 30 mg sulforaphane glucosinolate yields 8 mg of sulforaphane, but I can't find the post. Does this sound right? The only guide on sulforaphane dosing I can find are these posts by Turnbuckle: #420 and #558. They suggest that 0.5-1 g of Vitacost broccoli sprout extract containing 3 mg sulforaphane per 1 g is enough for fusion. So it's likely that I'm taking more than enough. Is there anything else I should be taking during fusion? Any macro or micronutrients? Antioxidants maybe? Should I do another few days of fusion? Also, I'm confused by Vitamin B complex appearing on only one day of the protocol? I would normally take a multivatamin and a separate Vitamin B complex on most day. Can I still do that while on the protocol?

Edited by tolerant, 02 November 2018 - 08:13 AM.

[tolerant]

Hi everyone,

I'm following Turnbuckle's latest protocol and I'm out of Fisetin. Can it be replaced by anything, and if so, then at what dose?

Or isn't it strictly necessary because increasing NAD+ and activating AMPK will increase Sirt1?

Thanks,

tolerant

Edited by tolerant, 14 November 2018 - 04:15 AM.

[PAMPAGUY]

Science marches on when it comes anti-ageing treatments.  We are all looking for new and better treatments.  Must keep open mind to new ideas.

 

Here is a podcast my Dr. Attia on NAD, NMN, NR.  Lays out the science of boosting NAD with unbiased cites.( https://www.scienced...967?via=ihub=) Unlock with  http://sci-hub.tw/   Using tracers to track movement of precursors in body.  Bottom Line:  NAD can only be made in cell, or liver.  Cell cannot take up NAD.  Oral and Infused NAD waste of money. (quackery)  Oral N+R, NR, or NMN only go to liver where it is made into NAD.  It is needed in cell not only liver.  To increase NAD for entire body you would need IV of NMN or NR which would go directly to cell in entire body skipping liver and gastrointestinal track. 

 

Personally it would seem that Sublingual would also work. (NMN or N+R)  https://alivebynatur...elivery-method/

 

At 1:57-2:03

 

https://peterattiamd.com/ama03/

 

Need to listen to this interview first, then to  Dr. Sinclair's interview at bottom of page.

[MikeDC]

So many errors in your summary. Liver has cells too. There are evidence that NAD+ can cross cell membrane. Even if no NR escapes from liver, increased NAD+, NR and NMN in the plasma will be used as precursors in other organs.

[PAMPAGUY]

So many errors in your summary. Liver has cells too. There are evidence that NAD+ can cross cell membrane. Even if no NR escapes from liver, increased NAD+, NR and NMN in the plasma will be used as precursors in other organs.

Why argue with me.  NR taken orally never gets out of liver to other cells of the body.  Argue with the scientist, MD, Phd.'s who have no financial reason to lie.

[MikeDC]

Why argue with me. NR taken orally never gets out of liver to other cells of the body. Argue with the scientist, MD, Phd.'s who have no financial reason to lie.

Doesn’t matter how many titles he has. He is not well informed.

[tolerant]

Would somebody be good enough to look at the ingredients of this sulforaphane product and tell me whether any of them would compromise fusion? Thanks.

Edited by tolerant, 17 November 2018 - 03:32 AM.

[tolerant]

Ok so I am confused as to what your current protocol is. In the other thread you updated the first post, and it seems to imply that you're back to using olive oil instead of MCT?

Also, for Hydroxytyrosol do you use a magnetic stirrer to incorporate it? Where do you buy it? Is the 1400mg/kg referring to your bodyweight? or per kg of the oil? It would amount to 91 grams per dose for me, if that is the case and would be extremely expensive.

If anyone can make a step by step guide, with measurements I would be happy to even pay for it. It is impractical to go through all of the threads and is difficult to parse.

I would happy to even pay for the C60 oil made for themselves by Turnbuckle and other people who know what they are talking about.

[tolerant]

By the way, if you search around YouTube, you may find some guidance. Here's an example: https://youtu.be/Xl9NlWaPqug. In the text you will find a complete set of supplies and where to get them.

Ine thing I personally don't yet understand is whether the whole thing must be done in the dark, or artificial white light.

[Graviton]

Can fission and fusion process increase in the similar time period?

If they are opposite each other, what does mean by "induced (...) fission and fusion"?

 

 

 

EPA/DHA supplementation alone also a) induced mitochondrial biogenesis in liver, soleus and hippocampus associated with increased expression of PGC1-α; b) induced proteins related to mitochondrial fusion in the liver, and fission and fusion in the hippocampus.

 

If both protein expressions are increased, then what does this imply?

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/30041048

Edited by Graviton, 20 November 2018 - 03:56 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

Can fission and fusion process increase in the similar time period?

If they are opposite each other, what does mean by "induced (...) fission and fusion"?

 

 

If both protein expressions are increased, then what does this imply?

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/30041048

 

It implies that such supplements are no good for this protocol. Here we push things all in one direction, then all in the other direction.

[Graviton]

It implies that such supplements are no good for this protocol. Here we push things all in one direction, then all in the other direction.

Well, what I meant was what is the biological significance of increasing both protein expressions.

 

The study also noted the increased level of pgc-1-alpha, which contributes to mitochondrial biogenesis.

 

Mitochondrial fusion and fission are dependent on the regulation of cell cycles, and it seems that certain types of cell cycle and states is more preferable than the other, but how can those two states go in the similar direction in the similar time period?

 

Both fusion and division occurs while increased the number of mitochondria?

 

it is not certain why those kinds of processes flow.

Edited by Graviton, 21 November 2018 - 01:50 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

Ine thing I personally don't yet understand is whether the whole thing must be done in the dark, or artificial white light.

 

Mix it in the dark. Store it in the dark (and preferably in the freezer). Metal bottles are thus the best, or black bottles, or amber bottles in black zip lock bags. I'm not going to get into a discussion on it here, but if anyone thinks that "artificial white light" is okay, they are misinformed. Given that C60 in oil reacts with oxygen in the presence of red light, higher frequencies can be expected to be even worse.  

[tolerant]

Delete please.

Edited by tolerant, 22 November 2018 - 07:47 AM.

[tolerant]

This is a follow-up to my previous post and posts previous to that which can be found if you follow the links. The subject is my experiment with Turnbuckle's latest mito QC protocol. I am not close to completing my fourth cycle. I did detailed write-ups for my first and second cycle. I am not sure whether I will do full write-ups. I might comb through my memory to see whether something dramatic happened. What I remember now is that during my second cycle when I was describing a shoulders workout, I omitted to say that I felt this very noticeable pump in my shoulders, and the only reason I'm saying this is because I've been working out for 18 years and I never ever remember feeling a pump in the shoulder muscles.

 

Cycle three was the cycle where I noticed an improvement in my appearance. I reported increased smoothness and softness of skin that happened prior to the third cycle, but it was during or after the third cycle that I actually noticed that I look better in the mirror (I mean the face). But now, during my fourth cycle, a very strange occurrence has happened, which prompted me to make this post. The skin on my face is very smooth and soft on about 3/4 of the right side of my face. And there is almost this clear line that can be drawn from the top of my forehead to the bottom of the chin (not including areas covered by beard and mustache (as these areas I can't really feel), and to the right of that line my skin is much, much smoother than to the left, where it coarse.

 

I would say that I continue to look better that I did prior to beginning the third cycle, but maybe not as good as I looked prior to beginning this fourth current cycle. I would very much like to know what people make of this phenomenon? One guess is that it has something to do with sun exposure. I've gone on a number of lengthy 1.5 hour walks in the sun in the last few weeks, but the thing is that, roughly speaking, I walk for 45 minutes in one direction and then walk back for 45 minutes in the opposite direction, so my face would have roughly the same exposure to the sun, unless I went on a number of walks where on the return leg the sun had set, although I don't remember that being or not being the case. Another reason I can think of is that I may sleep with the side of my face which is now smooth placed on my right arm. I actually don't know how I sleep, but when I lie down to rest, it's more often with the right side of my face pressing against my right arm. The part of my face that is pressed against my arm is pretty much congruent with the part that is smooth, but I don't know why? Does it receive more blood flow this way? Less blood flow?

 

I'll leave it up to the community to work this one out.

[Kentavr]

The reason for the differing state of the skin may be that, before applying the protocol, that part of the skin that was less changed had a lower degree of blood circulation.

When you started using the protocol, the skin areas that had increased access to nutrients were first of all refreshed.

[BRIGHT]

I've also been using a dermaroller for the past month. Years ago I tried it and found it did nothing, but once I began using it with a solution of lysine in water, it became amazingly effective.

 

Hi Turnbuckle, can you please write in more details about this dermaroller with lysine procedure and your results with it?

 

As for mito protocol, I've got mild results with 1g NAM + 1g Ribose (very very mild I would say). Will try 2g next week. And if 2g will not work will try atomic protocol.

[Turnbuckle]

Hi Turnbuckle, can you please write in more details about this dermaroller with lysine procedure and your results with it?

 

As for mito protocol, I've got mild results with 1g NAM + 1g Ribose (very very mild I would say). Will try 2g next week. And if 2g will not work will try atomic protocol.

 

 

I mostly used N+R at the 2g level of each level. However, while this had amazing effects at first, over a period of many months it gradually declined and now has little effect. This is certainly due to to the effectiveness of the protocol in deleting defective mitochondria and replacing them with healthy ones. I was around 65 when I began that and had many defective mitochondria due to statin treatment, which is toxic to mitochondria. If you don't have much in the way of effects, then likely you don't have a lot of defective mitochondria to begin with, and this is also how you can tell that you're done with the treatment. As for the "atomic protocol," that was a one-off effect that never repeated, and I haven't seen anyone else here reporting that it did anything extra for them. I also had a strong effect from TMG alone some years ago, getting a high from one gram, but then nothing on subsequent doses, so it may have more to do with a slowly-building methyl-donor deficiency that was corrected by TMG.

[BRIGHT]

Turnbuckle, thanks for sharing you new view on atomic protocol.

 

As for the L-lysine solution I mentioned above for use with dermarolling, I use a teaspoon of pure powder in 50 ml water. Don't add anything else to it and it should keep without microbial growth.

 

Sorry for off-topic, but regarding dermarolling with lysine, do you still find it is effective? Does it has a profound effect on skin quality or wrinkles? If yes, maybe it's time to start a new thread.  

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle, thanks for sharing you new view on atomic protocol.

 

 

Sorry for off-topic, but regarding dermarolling with lysine, do you still find it is effective? Does it has a profound effect on skin quality or wrinkles? If yes, maybe it's time to start a new thread.  

 

 

I haven't done that in a long time so I can't say if it is still effective. Worth trying again, however.

[Rocket]

Still not grasping why stearic (what we can buy) needs to be cooked into food for absorption. The chemical compound isn't altered by heat.

I have been mixing with leucine and taurine into morning protein shakes.

A nice and short read on SA and meat.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/7977148

[Kentavr]

Still not grasping why stearic (what we can buy) needs to be cooked into food for absorption. The chemical compound isn't altered by heat.

I have been mixing with leucine and taurine into morning protein shakes.

A nice and short read on SA and meat.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/7977148

 

When you eat stearic acid in the form of a piece, then part of stearic acid is not absorbed by the body.

 

To increase the efficiency of absorption, you need a surfactant. This is necessary so that a significant part of stearic acid is transferred to chylomicrons.

 

Soy lecithin is a surfactant. It allows better emulsification of stearic acid in the intestine.

 

If you melt lecithin with stearic acid and mix very thoroughly, the degree of absorption may increase by 10 times (and even more). Moreover, the degree of discomfort can be greatly reduced if you have it.

[Nate-2004]

Both soy lethicin and cocoa contain phospholipids that can improve the bioavailability of stearic acid. I prefer mine in mango butter form just to ensure I'm not getting any palmitic acid. So it's mostly stearic and monounsaturated omega 9 fats. Melting it is part of the process of getting it to mix with lethicin and cocoa.  It can be resolidified after that. Brownies have cocoa too so that's fine to do that instead but I just put my mix into coffee instead. Probably doesn't matter beyond this point.

[QuestforLife]

In the human study they didn't use lethicin or cocoa - just heated it in milk and on consumption it caused fusion to occur in the cells they measured it in. So as far as I'm concerned further enhancement of bioavailability beyond this is unecessary.