105 replies to this topic

[Nate-2004]

I think the right exercises are important for recovering from back problems. Some conditions can be cured by this, or improved. Surgery should be a last resort, doctors often recommend it as a first line of treatment. They make no money if you exercise at home, operations are big bucks. 

 

Nate, like I said in other posts, no one can guarantee you will be cured or even improved with bpc 157 but all I know is it was a godsend to me. My bad wrist which bothered me every day and forced me to do things with the other hand and use a brace, now no longer gives any problem. That is a genuine miracle in my book. It seemed to happen overnight which is more or less unheard of, unless you mean pain pills. I'm using it more now, have stopped using the brace and it still feels fine. 

 

My lower back no longer bothers me, I did feel a twinge now and then but its much better. The elbow too gives some twinges, I've been using it more, putting weight on it and so on but its a lot better too and I  only started this wonder substance less than 2 weeks ago. I plan to use the rest of my vial then take 2 weeks off to evaluate and then decide what to do. I keep the spare vials in the freezer, my solution is stored in the fridge.

 

One other thing I noticed is that I do not wake up in the middle of the night not able to get back to sleep. This used to happen somewhat often, its a little early to say that is fixed but I read a study where it was shown to rejuvenate some gaba receptors. I think it was in the brain health or mental health forum. Its also a bit too soon to assume my back, wrist, etc are cured forever. All I'm sure of is they don't bother me anymore, I dont plan to stress test those areas, just do some exercises and hope to slowly build up without a relapse. So far so good.

 

I'll have to look into this. I found some on a site but it's injected which... I'm unsure about. Not sure how to use it. It's only got mouse trials so far too. I'll have to read more.

[adamh]

 

I think the right exercises are important for recovering from back problems. Some conditions can be cured by this, or improved. Surgery should be a last resort, doctors often recommend it as a first line of treatment. They make no money if you exercise at home, operations are big bucks. 

 

Nate, like I said in other posts, no one can guarantee you will be cured or even improved with bpc 157 but all I know is it was a godsend to me. My bad wrist which bothered me every day and forced me to do things with the other hand and use a brace, now no longer gives any problem. That is a genuine miracle in my book. It seemed to happen overnight which is more or less unheard of, unless you mean pain pills. I'm using it more now, have stopped using the brace and it still feels fine. 

 

My lower back no longer bothers me, I did feel a twinge now and then but its much better. The elbow too gives some twinges, I've been using it more, putting weight on it and so on but its a lot better too and I  only started this wonder substance less than 2 weeks ago. I plan to use the rest of my vial then take 2 weeks off to evaluate and then decide what to do. I keep the spare vials in the freezer, my solution is stored in the fridge.

 

One other thing I noticed is that I do not wake up in the middle of the night not able to get back to sleep. This used to happen somewhat often, its a little early to say that is fixed but I read a study where it was shown to rejuvenate some gaba receptors. I think it was in the brain health or mental health forum. Its also a bit too soon to assume my back, wrist, etc are cured forever. All I'm sure of is they don't bother me anymore, I dont plan to stress test those areas, just do some exercises and hope to slowly build up without a relapse. So far so good.

 

I'll have to look into this. I found some on a site but it's injected which... I'm unsure about. Not sure how to use it. It's only got mouse trials so far too. I'll have to read more.

 

No need to inject it. They all sell it in those vials the reason seems to be to keep it uncontaminated in case people do want to inject. But no need to do that. I have been taking it orally and it works great as I've reported. I used hypos to put water in a tiny vial and to draw out the exact amount I needed. But then I just squirt it in, I take it late in the day.

 

That place is getting about $44 for a vial, I paid around that but got a free vial. Paid for 2, got 2 free and they gave 35% off the total. You would think the cheapest source would be low quality but the vendor has a good rep and it worked very well for me. Cost me about 65 with shipping and now I have enough to last a long time.

 

Hypos are the easiest way to move the product but you can simply tear open the top and pour a little water in then pour it into a container with a measured amount of water. Lets say 10ml so if you take 0.5 ml you are getting 250 mcg of the goodies. If you don't have a calibrated pipette you can use an ordinary eye dropper. Just see how many drops to a ml and you have it calibrated too.

 

I have read about people injecting it, they say put it as close to the site of the injury or problem as possible. I haven't needed to do that so I don't. The net is full of reports on it thats why its so popular and why there are so many vendors. Its bio-identical to a substance found in the gut so its not a novel peptide your body has never seen. Order a vial and try it. For $50 or so its definitely worth a try. The place I bought from starts with "blue" for those willing to search and hopefully I wont be accused of spamming. I just think its great stuff.

 

Now if they could only come up with something fantastic like this that works on osteo, that would be super because thats the other half of the problem many times. Then of course we need something super for a bunch of other conditions too.

[Rocket]

BPC doesn't do anything for discs. I would have a new spine if that were true.

Edited by Rocket, 01 May 2017 - 01:13 AM.

[Nate-2004]

Hopefully it isn't a disc. Today it was better, not sure if it's the stretching or what. I'll find out everything hopefully this week or next. I go to the Orthopedic Tuesday, then they'll probably order an MRI meaning I have to make a separate appointment for that, then I have to make another appointment to go back and have him tell me what's going on. Bunch of co-pays. Ridiculous system.

[maxwatt]

You are entitled to a copy of the MRI.  Hopefully on a DVD disk. Insist on it at the MRI facility.  They should be able to give it to you on the spot.  There is a computer program called  I think DR Doctor.

I used it to take the multiple image slices and build a three dimensional rotate-able model.  It helped me visualize where the problem was, what bone was impinging on a nerve,  and thus find the right doctor to perform the surgery I needed.

 

 

[APBT]

First, the MRI will potentially rule in or out any impingement or injury.  To intelligently approach chronic low back pain as you describe, it's crucial to know more about what you're trying to affect.

If it turns out there is no impingement or injury in the area you're experiencing pain, which is frequently the case, often there is something going on up-stream or down-stream; strength imbalance, joint or muscle tightness, inflammation etc...  Mobility, posture and range of movement are huge!

That said, I'd echo an earlier post regarding mobilitywod.  I've had tremendous success using Kelly Starrett's techniques.  They are not quick fixes.  It entails effort and consistency, but, in my experience it works.  I own both books and reference them frequently.  His Website has some free content, as well as subscription only content, plus he sells gear that is referenced in the books.

I'd recommend:

"Becoming A Supple Leopard" - Second Edition
https://www.amazon.c...5KFSWRZMAVTH411

"Deskbound"
https://www.amazon.c...words=deskbound

mobilitywod
https://www.mobilitywod.com


Finally, this may be of some value:

Take control of Your Back Pain
https://drnibber.com...hout-back-pain/

 

PS, maxwatt's recommendation above, +1.

Edited by APBT, 01 May 2017 - 11:27 PM.

[APBT]

The June 2017 issue of "Consumer Reports" magazine has a multi-page article on "Real Relief From Back Pain."

[Nate-2004]

The June 2017 issue of "Consumer Reports" magazine has a multi-page article on "Real Relief From Back Pain."

 

Interesting, not a subscriber but maybe I can find it somewhere.

[Nate-2004]

Why your healthcare is expensive in a short story about back pain:

Went to orthopedic so that I could get a prescription for MRI, which I already knew I needed but for some obnoxiously absurd reason you still need to go pay a doctor for permission to get one, copay $40.

Insurance company won't let me get an MRI until I've gotten an X-ray and visited the doctor twice and have gone to a physical therapist once. Copay total: $120

Wait 6 weeks for second visit before MRI. Copay $40

Finally get my MRI that I've been waiting for all along. Copay $40

Visit doctor again so he can look at the MRI and tell me what he thinks of it. Copay $40

The end.

Your healthcare story brought to you by the law of supply and demand, insurance companies and government protectionism disguised as regulations.

[shp5]

I'm a physical therapist so if I can be of any help just ask. (Mind you, low back pain is a fucking mess in its complexity.)

 

My first recommendation for someone in the US is to ask around for a good chiro in your area. Just go once or twice, either it works for your problem right away or not at all. I saw that you are sceptical of this, but there's some actual evidence and you have nothing to lose but a few bucks if it doesn't work.

 

did someone do a Straight Leg Raise (and a crossed SLR) on you? This is actually one of the few accurate clinical tests we have (positive suggests herniation at l4-l5). If not, youtube it and have a friend do it on you.

 

 

Edited by shp5, 09 May 2017 - 09:02 PM.

[sthira]

= yoga

Until they (orthopedists) get their shit together, I've forgotten em. Their imaging might be useful to tell me if there's a tumor growing into the nerves or bones of my spine. But to see if I've ruptured a disc or have stenosis or compression fractures or arthritis or an infection -- I've never found MRIs useful tools for resolving pain. Sure, look at all that messed up shit in your skeleton -- maybe it's causing pain, maybe not. Here try some drugs! Here try some surgery!



Hopefully your experience will be very different and your outcome positive, and I sincerely hope you'll find answers.

[Nate-2004]

I'm a physical therapist so if I can be of any help just ask. (Mind you, low back pain is a fucking mess in its complexity.)

 

My first recommendation for someone in the US is to ask around for a good chiro in your area. Just go once or twice, either it works for your problem right away or not at all. I saw that you are sceptical of this, but there's some actual evidence and you have nothing to lose but a few bucks if it doesn't work.

 

did someone do a Straight Leg Raise (and a crossed SLR) on you? This is actually one of the few accurate clinical tests we have (positive suggests herniation at l4-l5). If not, youtube it and have a friend do it on you.

 

No one did this on me but someone recommended seeing a Physiatrist instead of an Orthopedic. I hadn't even heard of a "Physiatrist" till today.

 

I'm not really up for seeing a chiro, it's not just skepticism it's risk in making things worse.

 

That said, the videos I posted above, especially the hip stretch exercise video, have helped me a lot. I don't feel as much pain in general day to day now, but the pain is still there when I wake up and it was absolutely horrible on Saturday when I went to a music festival. I was standing longer than an hour and a half and it was quite miserable. I had to leave before the last band played because I just couldn't stand it anymore. That sucks. I want to be able to go to concerts but they have always been such hell on my lower back.

= yoga

Until they (orthopedists) get their shit together, I've forgotten em. Their imaging might be useful to tell me if there's a tumor growing into the nerves or bones of my spine. But to see if I've ruptured a disc or have stenosis or compression fractures or arthritis or an infection -- I've never found MRIs useful tools for resolving pain. Sure, look at all that messed up shit in your skeleton -- maybe it's causing pain, maybe not. Here try some drugs! Here try some surgery!



Hopefully your experience will be very different and your outcome positive, and I sincerely hope you'll find answers.

 

I want to cover all bases. I just wish I'd opted for more flex pay this year.

[sthira]

...Visit doctor again so he can look at the MRI and tell me what he thinks of it. Copay $40

And what did (s)he think of it?

Although come to think of it myself, are there any female US orthopedists? I think it's a club. Hey, I'll bet ya three free Iyengar yoga classes with Joan White that your orthopedist was a dude?

...did someone do a Straight Leg Raise (and a crossed SLR) on you? This is actually one of the few accurate clinical tests we have (positive suggests herniation at l4-l5). If not, youtube it and have a friend do it on you.

No one did this on me but...

...That said, the videos I posted above, especially the hip stretch exercise video, have helped me a lot. I don't feel as much pain in general day to day now...

Hint hint...

Word up, man, follow what works. If stretching the hip flexors or psoas works to relieve shit, then stretch the hip flexors or psoas, and offer a hearty fuck you to the business that charges you to make you a drug addict, bankrupt you, then tell you they don't know.

I've been down miles and miles of their shit, man.

[Nate-2004]

 

...Visit doctor again so he can look at the MRI and tell me what he thinks of it. Copay $40

And what did (s)he think of it?

Although come to think of it myself, are there any female US orthopedists? I think it's a club. Hey, I'll bet ya three free Iyengar yoga classes with Joan White that your orthopedist was a dude?

 

I haven't gotten that far in the chain of events. Still at the first visit post x-ray. I still gotta wait 6 weeks and visit a physical therapist at some point before then and then finally I get my MRI. It's obnoxious.

 

I have never met a female orthopedist. They're all men and they all have an absolutely HORRIBLE bedside manner. They're a well protected profession though.

 

I e-mailed that lyengar yoga lady and got one response, she wanted to know if I'd gotten an MRI yet, I figured I'd do that first. SO I have to wait and wait and wait.

 

Hint hint...

Word up, man, follow what works. If stretching the hip flexors or psoas works to relieve shit, then stretch the hip flexors or psoas, and offer a hearty fuck you to the business that charges you to make you a drug addict, bankrupt you, then tell you they don't know.

I've been down miles and miles of their shit, man.

 

For now that's all I got. YouTube videos. The last wild frontier of a true, unregulated, unfiltered, free education system.

 

 

 

 

[Rocket]

I have a torn l5s1 that nearly paralyzed me and did leave a my right foot a little paralyzed. Took months post up to regain ability to feel all of my legs and toes. I tried to stay skinny to avoid too much weight on my spine but 2 or 3 times a year my back would "go out" for a week and leave me limping and in horrible pain.

Finally I said f*ck it and started bodybuilding 3 years ago. I'm up 60 pounds and doing squats and deadlifts (occasionally) and lifting heavy and I haven't had an episode since except the one time I carried a hot water heater out of my basement. Knock on wood!

If all else fails try weight lifting. You ain't got nothing to lose.

[maxwatt]

I once saw three orthopedists setting a broken thigh.  They were big guys, as was the patient.  Two held him under his arms, and the strongest of them, who was huge, pulled on his leg until the thigh bone was roughly back where it belonged, and they could set it.  I think Orthopedics grew our of bone-setting.  I wonder if the historical requirement of physical strength to counter a patient's muscles' contraction around a broken bone has resulted in fewer women in the field (if any) than men?  The orthopedists I've met have all been husky guys.  I'm told that when operating there are also strength requirements.  Pushing bones around must not be easy. 

 

American Osteopathic schools no longer teach manipulation, or merely gloss over it, considering it an embarrassment.  If you ever go to Canada, particularly Quebec, the Osteopaths there come out of the French school, and are not just MD wanna-bees.  Their practice of manipulation is said to be more evolved and gentler than Chiropractic, and includes many more techniques.

[Nate-2004]

Weight lifting is how I got to this point I think. I quit weight lifting because of the lower back pain involved. I replaced it with bodyweight lifting, aka calisthenics. Actually works quite well, but doesn't solve the lower back problem. Might be too late.

[adamh]

When all else fails or does not complete the job, then try bpc 157. But not until you have run the gauntlet of all the other therapies, drugs, manipulation and so on. Which I'm not knocking, I believe in the proper exercise being able to help with many back problems as well as other problems. Neither do I knock acupuncture, or even surgery which is needed in some cases but is overused IMO. Of course then if the bpc takes away a lot of the pain then you have to slap your forehead and say "I could have done that years ago"

 

It may not help everyone but for $40 or so how can you go wrong? Its already found in the body. OK I'll shut up now about that, I've become as annoying as a religious convert who wants everyone to see the light, lol. But give it a shot anyway.

[sthira]

The bpc 157 is an interesting idea. But what does it do? Mediate inflammation?

Here, try some L-Valine, glycyl-L-alpha-glutamyl-L-prolyl-L-prolyl-L-prolylglycyl-L-lysyl-L-prolyl-L-alanyl-L-alpha-aspartyl-L-alpha-aspartyl-L-alanylglycyl-L-leucyl-; glycyl-L-alpha-glutamyl-L-prolyl-L-prolyl-L-prolylglycyllysyl-L-prolyl-L-alanyl-L-alpha-aspartyl-L-alpha-aspartyl-L-alanylglycyl-L-leucyl-L-valine.

I e-mailed that lyengar yoga lady and got one response, she wanted to know if I'd gotten an MRI yet, I figured I'd do that first. SO I have to wait and wait and wait.

Your reluctance is telling. You may have NEP Syndrome (not enough pain).

You don't need an MRI for a level one Iyengar class. Just show up. You'll learn how to move your body.

As far as strength training goes, it's wonderful for weak backs. But it doesn't sound like your back is weak since:

Weight lifting is how I got to this point I think. I quit weight lifting because of the lower back pain involved. I replaced it with bodyweight lifting, aka calisthenics. Actually works quite well, but doesn't solve the lower back problem. Might be too late.

To me, just reading your words and knowing what I know about western men, it sounds like you're tight. I'll bet you have tight hamstrings, quads, psoas, can you spread your toes? Most men are tight. Everywhere bodywide. It's sad. They think somehow stretching and yoga are for sissies. So they hurt themselves, of course, like sun rising inevitability. I wish I had a nickel for every....

I'm amazed at how men like to build big fancy muscles not for strength (other than lifting heavy objects) but because they believe it gives them aesthetic appeal?

Edited by sthira, 10 May 2017 - 01:56 AM.

[Nate-2004]

With those stretches I posted I'm getting looser lol. Some of them I can do in the sauna.

Edited by Nate-2004, 10 May 2017 - 02:45 AM.

[sthira]

Looser is good. Have you looked up Yin Yoga on YouTube? Some great, great shit on YouTube for yin and slowly learning how to elongate fascia.

I'm a dancer, we're all fucked up, and this I do:



There's this woman in Miami who's amazing, seemed stoned:



She not only seems high, if you need to find respect, check this shit:

[Nate-2004]

When all else fails or does not complete the job, then try bpc 157. But not until you have run the gauntlet of all the other therapies, drugs, manipulation and so on. Which I'm not knocking, I believe in the proper exercise being able to help with many back problems as well as other problems. Neither do I knock acupuncture, or even surgery which is needed in some cases but is overused IMO. Of course then if the bpc takes away a lot of the pain then you have to slap your forehead and say "I could have done that years ago"

 

It may not help everyone but for $40 or so how can you go wrong? Its already found in the body. OK I'll shut up now about that, I've become as annoying as a religious convert who wants everyone to see the light, lol. But give it a shot anyway.

 

Maybe I'll give it a try, I dunno. I've got a round of fasting coming up soon, we'll see if that's successful.

[shp5]

I once saw three orthopedists setting a broken thigh.  They were big guys, as was the patient.  Two held him under his arms, and the strongest of them, who was huge, pulled on his leg until the thigh bone was roughly back where it belonged, and they could set it.  I think Orthopedics grew our of bone-setting.  I wonder if the historical requirement of physical strength to counter a patient's muscles' contraction around a broken bone has resulted in fewer women in the field (if any) than men?  The orthopedists I've met have all been husky guys.  I'm told that when operating there are also strength requirements.  Pushing bones around must not be easy. 

 

American Osteopathic schools no longer teach manipulation, or merely gloss over it, considering it an embarrassment.  If you ever go to Canada, particularly Quebec, the Osteopaths there come out of the French school, and are not just MD wanna-bees.  Their practice of manipulation is said to be more evolved and gentler than Chiropractic, and includes many more techniques.

 

Here in Austria it's similar, i know no female orthopaedists, 1 female trauma surgeon and a few female physiatrists, even though nearly 60% of medicine students are female. I think that lots of it is tradition, I cannot imagine that blunt strength is such a big factor. But it's an interesting hypothesis, I'll ask around.

It's funny how osteopathy came to life in the US but is kept alive in Europe. Even the uptight NHS pays for osteopathic manipulative treatment, and France, Italy and Spain have great traditions in this field. Sad to hear that the DOs distance themselves from manual therapy, when musculosceletal problems are so prevalent.

 

I think your point about technique is a bit generalising. At least here, chiros (with proper training) have mostly HVT as a tool and are generally quite good at doing them. Osteopaths have a much bigger toolbox and thus many use HVTs more sporadically, so you might call them gentler - it really depends on the practitioner.

 

 

 

As for yin yoga, I love it. You can apply it's principles on normal stretching easily: find a relaxed variant of your stretch that uses gravity and minimizes muscular effort. begin with a low to medium intensity stretch. hold it for 5 minutes, and decrease breathing frequency (just lengthen the pauses after each inhalation and each exhalation a bit). another interesting form is resistence stretching, but frankly its to much effort for me.

Edited by shp5, 10 May 2017 - 12:02 PM.

[Rocket]

Weight lifting is how I got to this point I think. I quit weight lifting because of the lower back pain involved. I replaced it with bodyweight lifting, aka calisthenics. Actually works quite well, but doesn't solve the lower back problem. Might be too late.

Me too! Weight lifting without knowing what I was doing nearly put me in a chair or walker. If you have to bite the bullet and have a lami then you do what needs to be done and never give up. Lamis today are a breeze! 15 years ago they would cut you wide open like I had done. Never give up. There's plenty of time for that when you're dead.

I recall reading something on pubmed last year that thymosin use can help preserve discs when aging.... At least thats what I recall. I am not motivated right now to look for that article.

Edited by Rocket, 11 May 2017 - 01:28 AM.

[zorba990]

Resveratrol might help if you can get it to the tissue (might need dmso for that or some kind of injectable)

Ref: https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19011540

"Spine (Phila Pa 1976). 2008 Nov 15;33(24):2586-95. doi: 10.1097/BRS.0b013e3181883883.
The action of resveratrol, a phytoestrogen found in grapes, on the intervertebral disc.
Li X1, Phillips FM, An HS, Ellman M, Thonar EJ, Wu W, Park D, Im HJ.
Author information
Abstract
STUDY DESIGN:
Basic science, biologic study.
OBJECTIVE:
To determine the potential benefits of using resveratrol (RSV) for intervertebral disc (IVD) matrix repair and regeneration.
SUMMARY OF BACKGROUND DATA:
The phytoestrogen RSV is a natural compound found in various plants including grapes and red wines. RSV has been reported to provide a protective effect on articular cartilage in rabbit models for arthritis, but its effect on spine cartilage is unknown. METHODS.: We studied the effect of RSV on bovine IVD cartilage homeostasis by assessing MMP-13 (potent catabolic factor) production, proteoglycan (PG) accumulation and synthesis, and the interaction between RSV and known catabolic factors such as bFGF or IL-1. To understand the molecular mechanisms by which RSV modulates MMP-13 and PG production, we also investigated its downstream target regulatory molecules.
RESULTS:
Stimulation of bovine disc cells cultured in monolayer with bFGF or IL-1 augmented the production of MMP-13 and ADAMTS-4 at the transcriptional level and this augmentation was blocked by RSV. Incubation of nucleus pulposus cells with RSV for 21 days significantly increased PG accumulation per cell in a dose-dependent manner, increased PG synthesis, rescued PG losses induced by catabolic reagents bFGF and IL-1, and promoted cell survival to levels seen after incubation with the anabolic protein BMP7 100 ng/mL. Protein-DNA interaction array results suggest that RSV effectively suppresses downstream target molecules of bFGF and IL-1 responsible for oxidative stress, proliferation, and apoptosis.
CONCLUSION:
Resveratrol is a potent anabolic mediator of bovine IVD cartilage homeostasis, revealing its potential as a unique biologic treatment to slow the progression of IVD degeneration. These data suggests RSV may have considerable promise in the treatment of disc degeneration."

[Nate-2004]

 

Weight lifting is how I got to this point I think. I quit weight lifting because of the lower back pain involved. I replaced it with bodyweight lifting, aka calisthenics. Actually works quite well, but doesn't solve the lower back problem. Might be too late.

Me too! Weight lifting without knowing what I was doing nearly put me in a chair or walker. If you have to bite the bullet and have a lami then you do what needs to be done and never give up. Lamis today are a breeze! 15 years ago they would cut you wide open like I had done. Never give up. There's plenty of time for that when you're dead.

I recall reading something on pubmed last year that thymosin use can help preserve discs when aging.... At least thats what I recall. I am not motivated right now to look for that article.

 

 

I knew what I was doing and I'd had some training on squats especially, people would compliment my form for both squats and deadlifts. I really think it was just not the way to go. Now I step up on a tall gym stool with dumbells instead. No idea what a lami is.

Edited by Nate-2004, 11 May 2017 - 02:36 AM.

[maxwatt]

Now if it only worked in people at oral doses -- as a therapy it would have to be injected into ones discs.....

Resveratrol might help if you can get it to the tissue (might need dmso for that or some kind of injectable)

Ref: https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19011540

"Spine (Phila Pa 1976). 2008 Nov 15;33(24):2586-95. doi: 10.1097/BRS.0b013e3181883883.
The action of resveratrol, a phytoestrogen found in grapes, on the intervertebral disc.
Li X1, Phillips FM, An HS, Ellman M, Thonar EJ, Wu W, Park D, Im HJ.
Author information
Abstract
STUDY DESIGN:
Basic science, biologic study.
OBJECTIVE:
To determine the potential benefits of using resveratrol (RSV) for intervertebral disc (IVD) matrix repair and regeneration.
SUMMARY OF BACKGROUND DATA:
The phytoestrogen RSV is a natural compound found in various plants including grapes and red wines. RSV has been reported to provide a protective effect on articular cartilage in rabbit models for arthritis, but its effect on spine cartilage is unknown. METHODS.: We studied the effect of RSV on bovine IVD cartilage homeostasis by assessing MMP-13 (potent catabolic factor) production, proteoglycan (PG) accumulation and synthesis, and the interaction between RSV and known catabolic factors such as bFGF or IL-1. To understand the molecular mechanisms by which RSV modulates MMP-13 and PG production, we also investigated its downstream target regulatory molecules.
RESULTS:
Stimulation of bovine disc cells cultured in monolayer with bFGF or IL-1 augmented the production of MMP-13 and ADAMTS-4 at the transcriptional level and this augmentation was blocked by RSV. Incubation of nucleus pulposus cells with RSV for 21 days significantly increased PG accumulation per cell in a dose-dependent manner, increased PG synthesis, rescued PG losses induced by catabolic reagents bFGF and IL-1, and promoted cell survival to levels seen after incubation with the anabolic protein BMP7 100 ng/mL. Protein-DNA interaction array results suggest that RSV effectively suppresses downstream target molecules of bFGF and IL-1 responsible for oxidative stress, proliferation, and apoptosis.
CONCLUSION:
Resveratrol is a potent anabolic mediator of bovine IVD cartilage homeostasis, revealing its potential as a unique biologic treatment to slow the progression of IVD degeneration. These data suggests RSV may have considerable promise in the treatment of disc degeneration."

 

[Rocket]

Weight lifting is how I got to this point I think. I quit weight lifting because of the lower back pain involved. I replaced it with bodyweight lifting, aka calisthenics. Actually works quite well, but doesn't solve the lower back problem. Might be too late.

Me too! Weight lifting without knowing what I was doing nearly put me in a chair or walker. If you have to bite the bullet and have a lami then you do what needs to be done and never give up. Lamis today are a breeze! 15 years ago they would cut you wide open like I had done. Never give up. There's plenty of time for that when you're dead.

I recall reading something on pubmed last year that thymosin use can help preserve discs when aging.... At least thats what I recall. I am not motivated right now to look for that article.

I knew what I was doing and I'd had some training on squats especially, people would compliment my form for both squats and deadlifts. I really think it was just not the way to go. Now I step up on a tall gym stool with dumbells instead. No idea what a lami is.

Laminectomy.

[venusshek]

have you tried massage? its best solution in my opinion. pleasant and relief at the same time.

[Nate-2004]

have you tried massage? its best solution in my opinion. pleasant and relief at the same time.

 

I've had many massages have you? It's relief in the moment but certainly not a solution that lasts longer than a day.