430 replies to this topic

[Moondancer]

 

Assuming to start with a pure BPC which has been properly stored reconstitution has to be done only with bacteriostatic water which is sterile water for injections with benzyl alcohol added.

 

Both rubber stops, the one on the BPC vial and the one on the bacteriostatic water, need to be disinfected prior to be entered by the needle, this might be achieved leaving a drop or two of disinfectant on them for a few minutes.

 

Don't touch with fingers needles and rubber stops, of course, and take care to not touching anything with the needles (counter-tops, etc...)

 

After reconstitution store in the FRIDGE and use before 15 days.

 

Always use a new syringe each time.

 

Good post, aconita. This is a very conservative approach and better to be extra careful than to be sloppy when you are injecting. 

 

 

Too obvious @Adamh.

 

What is the needle length/gauge that others use? What about getting the vial in and out of the fridge when you inject: could that spoil the BPC 157?

[adamh]

>Too obvious @Adamh

 

What does that mean?

 

 

[aconita]

Usually best syringes for subq are 0.5ml or 0.3ml no head-space 30G needle.

 

Once reconstituted in and out the fridge isn't an issue, try to keep the out time as short as possible, of course.

 

A different ballgame is when the peptide is in powder form in which case in and out should be avoided as much as possible.

 

When the room temperature air in the vial gets cold in the fridge it will lose volume leading to a drop in pressure which will draw air in the vial, that air will be quite full of humidity (the air inside the fridge), humidity will be absorbed by the peptide causing a de facto unwanted reconstitution.

 

You'll notice the powder getting less and less to finally totally disappear and later on tiny water drops forming on the inside vial wall.

 

This isn't likely to happen so dramatically on a couple of ins and outs but doing it more often is better avoided, it might be determined by how good is the seal on the vial is but don't rely too much on that, no  way to tell beforehand really.

 

Keeping the vial inside a sealed container might help somehow, a vacuum bag would be best.

[calm--]

I just received my BPC and I notice it has turned into solid powders. Can someone tell me what this means?

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Edited by calm--, 09 October 2017 - 08:13 AM.

[DareDevil]

 

DareDevil, you mentioned ending up in the hospital. I did a quick search and you seem to have developed a large abscess after injecting a certain substance (not BPC-157) subcutaneously, is that correct? 

Do you mind mentioning the exact protocol you followed to prepare and inject the substance? Of course it concerns a different substance, but since quite a few persons consider injecting BPC-157 subcutaneously it might still be interesting and potentially helpful to know about potential pitfalls. Aconita gave some good basic advices that certainly are important to follow for anyone considering injecting BPC-157 subq (using bac water, new needles each time, cleaning the rubber stop with alcohol etc). Nonetheless of course some concerns remain when injecting a substance subq.  

 

Hi Leni,

 

At risk of losing any remnants of respect for my intelligence, I did two things I shouldn't have. I injected subQ multiple 5ml vials of an IV product sourced in Malaysia, which is possibly even questionable for its intended IV usage, it is called Dumovit 7000 Demarcate Youth:

 

http://loveshoppingh...ods.php?id=2328

 

Also, on one occasion I ignorantly reused a syringe that I had already used the previous day, stupidly assuming that since it has only been in my own body it wouldn't bring any foreign bacteria. Obviously, now I have come to realize that bacteria can develop overnight in a used syringe and that putting it back inside its plastic sheath is no sanitary measure of protection.

 

So yes, I developed an encapsulated abscess the size of a golf ball that had to be drained surgically and the hardened encapsulation was scraped out during half an hour by the surgical team. The pain of the large abscess wasn't as bad before surgery as it was after the intervention. I afterwards enjoyed a month of treating myself the open wound until it healed and resealed, under remote cellphone camera and texting nurse supervision, this while traveling in the desert. It is now sealed closed and has left a two inch scar on my hip. That's about it. There is no advice to be learned beyond not being totally stupid like me, injecting whatever you can buy online or ignoring basic common sense and hygienic sterilization of all injection materials.

 

To explain what little I've learned despite my natural daredevil tendencies, is to no longer inject subQ thick mixtures intended for dilution into a liter of IV solution and to make sure all needles are brand new. Not much of a resolution but at least a small improvement over the previous recklessness of my experimentations.

 

Cheers,

 

DareDevil

[DareDevil]

I just received my BPC and I notice it has turned into solid powders. Can someone tell me what this means?

 

Hi Calm,

 

This is the best way of shipping and storing a peptide, as it remains durable when in dry powder form. Once you add a solvent, preferably bacteriostatic water or injectable saline solution, it becomes suspended in liquid and its shelf life becomes drastically reduced so it must be used within weeks or months and kept in a refrigerator. There is ample information on how to reconstitute a peptide online, here is one that details this specifically for BPC-157, you will need to scroll down to find the details:

 

https://bengreenfiel...to-use-bpc-157/

 

DD

[calm--]

Thanks daredevil. My question probably wasn't very clear. What I meant was the powder was "clumping". Like a solid mass. Sorry don't really know how to say it properly in english. The image might explain better.

 

Anyway I've reconstituted it and just took 0.25 mg sublingual. I felt like there's mild sedation, could be placebo. Will report more later.

[aconita]

Mild sedation has been reported by other users too.

 

I just like to make a point about subq injections.

 

Those are intended for TINY amounts, large amounts need intramuscular or IV.

 

Peptides usually calls for tiny amounts and subq serves well the scope but for other compounds which comes in larger dosages it isn't a smart choice.

 

Try to have a look at the inside of a needle with a microscope one day after being used and you'll understand why it isn't a good idea to reuse that needle/syringe.

 

One can boil the syringe for about 15 minutes (the plunger has to be separated from the barrel) and reuse, it will be fine.

 

Basically the only issue with that procedure is the hepatitis C virus which isn't killed by exposure to 100° C but if if the syringe has been used only by yourself that isn't of concern.

 

Bacteria will be all destroyed by boiling.

 

One has to ask if it cost less a new syringe or the energy to boil the old one, but that is another matter.

 

Sharpness of the needle doesn't last forever neither and a blunt needle makes for a quite unpleasant experience.

[aribadabar]

My question probably wasn't very clear. What I meant was the powder was "clumping". Like a solid mass. Sorry don't really know how to say it properly in english. The image might explain better.

 

This is entirely normal - what you see as solid mass is called in lab jargon "a cake"  and that's the product of lyophilization of the peptide in the lab. It is how virtually all peptides are shipped nowadays.

Your product looks good as far as I can tell visually.

 

I'd be more concerned if the peptide is NOT looking like that - this would mean that either the lyophilization or the synthesis procedure were not performed by modern standards.

There is a possibility that you may receive the "cake" fractured or in pieces due to rough shipping but the peptide should NOT be looking like a loose powder in the vial.

Edited by aribadabar, 10 October 2017 - 12:56 AM.

[aconita]

I don't agree at all, Diagen BPC comes as fluffy powder and that is the more legit product available.

[aribadabar]

It may be legit but may not be the best storage method.

All the peptides I have seen sold in vials are in this "cake" form, at least from vendors in North America.

[aconita]

As far as I know it is a defect rather than a better storage method (of which I don't really understand the meaning) but I might be wrong, of course.

 

Clumping is usually due by poor production conditions where air humidity binds to peptides because of their hygrosopicity, a controlled environment would be needed which is expensive.

 

Very likely all the peptides you have seen are cheap China made of far from optimal quality, not your fault, of course, just the sad reality of this market.

[calm--]

Does anyone know if bpc-157 can help with hpa dysfunction (or adrenal fatigue)? I was tested with too high cortisol on Jan 2017. I have lot of symptoms described here : http://www.adrenalad...-symptoms.shtml. Once I did Intermittent Fasting for a couple weeks, and it became worst.

Edited by calm--, 10 October 2017 - 10:02 AM.

[aribadabar]

As far as I know it is a defect rather than a better storage method (of which I don't really understand the meaning) but I might be wrong, of course.

 

Clumping is usually due by poor production conditions where air humidity binds to peptides because of their hygrosopicity, a controlled environment would be needed which is expensive.

 

Very likely all the peptides you have seen are cheap China made of far from optimal quality, not your fault, of course, just the sad reality of this market.

 

Thanks for prompting me to verify this.

 

I found this overview of the process which also discusses the "cake" creation.

http://ijpsr.com/bft.../?view=fulltext

 

 

Characteristics of freeze dried products 3-5:

• Intact cake
• Sufficient strength to prevent cracking, powdering or collapse
• Uniform color & consistency
• Sufficient dryness to maintain stability
• Sufficient porosity & surface area to permit rapid reconstitution
• Sterile
• Free of pyrogens & particulates
• Chemically stable
• Long-term stability
• Short reconstitution time
• Elegant cake appearance
• Maintenance of the characteristics of the original dosage form upon reconstitution, including solution properties; structure or conformation of proteins; and particle-size distribution of suspensions
• Isotonicity upon reconstitution (in some cases, also for bulk solution)

 

It sounds to me the cake is an inherent result of a GOOD lyophilization/freeze-drying, not a sloppy, production process..

Edited by aribadabar, 10 October 2017 - 04:30 PM.

[DareDevil]

Well, some prefer to eat their cake and have it too. I'll not take mine sublingually but will definitely be injecting - thank you!

 

I am interested in maximum dosages and the potential negative side effects of large doses. I have heard of 500microgram twice per day for a total of 1 milligram of BPC-157/day as a maximum safe dosage. Would it be potentially harmful to go beyond this dose and what might happen? I thought that as a body protection compound all it might do is better protect one's body. But I'm not exactly a rocket scientist not a biochemist or physician. If anyone here knows of issues of taking larger doses please let me know.

 

For reference, I am not necessarily unreasonable when confronted with clear reasons to reduce dosage, as I have recently taken Rapamycin again orally, after several months without. My latest dose was ever so slightly above the usual. Instead of 9mg it was approximately 12mg and I got a rather large and somewhat painful canker sore on my tongue. This signaled me to lower the dose next time. I'm giving Rapamycin a rest for a while resultantly. And I will be sure to take less than 10mg, so I am not stubborn even if a bit reckless at times.

 

I am taking what is considered to be quite large doses of GDF-11. This might be more risky as little is known about this substance in terms of its maximum levels or cumulation in your bloodstream and tissues. I am doing higher doses as I find they give me a youthful boost, and makes me feel more vigorous in general. Note that I am not taking it every single day but every few days, whenever I feel I need the boost. My dosage has been at about 100 microgram per injection. This is quite high according to others' intake by tenfold to a hundredfold. But I have not had any of the notorious GERD gastric reflux side effects, and don't know of any hidden side effects, so I am pursuing. I don't see any reason to take higher doses beyond the amount that makes me feel healthy and resilient. What is placebo or not isn't within my ability to discern. However I do like to press the limits unless it's clearly harmful. If you know of reasons to cease and desist, thanks for any info.

 

With GHK-GHK-Cu, the blend in purple powder form made from both sorts of the peptide with and without copper, I am currently injecting 10mg/day especially thinking of its potential youthening effects on the skin as well as how it is alleged to stop Testosterone from converting into DHT (preventing hair loss). Let me know if you've heard of limits to this also.

 

Back to BPC-157. It seems that thus far the dosages have been limited for two main reasons, those of speedy effectiveness and this makes sense. Why take more of anything than you need? It's like putting several bandaids on a cut. However, when taken not for a given affliction such as an injured ligament or a specific ailment, where it is in targeted use, maybe this would be different for systemic intake? What could be the advantages of taking more daily, were it a far cheaper product? It would be interesting to know what it's potential benefits or drawbacks would be at higher dosages.

 

FWIW - these are highly speculative musing, and not an encouragement to increase your own dosages.

 

DareDevil

[aconita]

Aribadabar, what you posted refers to freeze drying, not peptides synthesis.

 

And anyway under the "disadvantages" you can read:

 

• Stability problems associated with individual drugs.
• Some issues associated with sterilization & sterility assurance of dry chamber & aseptic loading of vials into chamber.
• New antibiotics and drugs, immunological products, substances derived from genetic engineering, high molecular weight proteins, and sophisticated peptides are very fragile, difficult to freeze, and all highly sensitive to residual moisture content.
• If too much heat is added, the material’s structure could be altered.
• Freezing damage can occur with labile products such as liposomes, proteins, and viruses.
• A rapid nucleation and growth rate resulting from a large degree of supercooling leads to a larger number of small ice crystals, which in turn presents a large ice–water interface. Exposure of proteins to this ice–water interface can lead to denaturation
• Extremely low water content in the final product can result in destabilization, and optimal water content should be determined.
• The desired residual moisture must be correlated to stability during long-term storage as part of development studies.

DareDevil, according to the available research BPC is a very safe and benign compound, no lethal dose has been able to be assessed, no side effects or signs of toxicity have been ever reported even at very high dosages, we can therefore assume an overdosing would be quite unlikely to lead to undesirable outcomes,

 

That said it is worth to point out that BPC has proven to be very effective at really tiny dosages therefore higher than necessary amounts are unjustified and likely not leading to better or more marked results.

 

What seems to emerge from research is that would be rather a constant exposure to tiny dosages an important factor determining its effectiveness, from this the practice to divide the 1mg/day in 3 doses of 0.33mg, one every 8 hours.

 

For general health and body protection even more interesting is the daily supplementation of 0.1mg for unlimited time, in other words constant exposure for long time seems better than few random high doses.

 

As for the other compounds named I don't know enough but very often there is a bell shaped curve of effectiveness, in doubt I suspect a prudent approach would be wiser, the more not necessarily being better.

 

Another issue is of practical nature, all these peptides and "research" compounds are made in China under uncontrolled conditions, those aren't pharmaceuticals made under strict specifications, testings showed very low purity levels and dosages much lower than stated, what those impurities and fillers are is unknown, overdosing here raises concerns about what isn't supposed to be there more than about the compound itself.

 

https://researchpept...f0b01d9c5202a3a

 

Are you really sure injecting many times more than the suggested dosages of those doubtful quality compounds is going to improve your health? 

 

I suggest caution, experimenting can be OK but the risk always calculated, reckless here might lead to very unpleasant consequences.

[Leni]

FWIW, the stable patented BPC-157 I received did not come in powder form, but as – what visually looked like – a small 'rocklike' substance. It seemed to dissolve easily when I added the BAC water.

 

DareDevil:

In this clinical trial (phase 1) 3mg per day of PCO-02 (3x 1mg every 8 hours) was administered for 2 weeks. I haven't been able to find the study results though – have they been posted here? I've only read some discussions in which it was stated there were no detrimental side-effects noted in the results of these clinical trials – but again: I haven't seen the actual study results. Plus, the clinical trial only ran for 2 weeks.

In general I can understand the appeal of using a lot of a substance that may offer (potential) health benefits, but then: there have been enough contradictory study results of other substances/vitamins/anti-oxidants to not want to take that bet myself. As we all know, something that may have positive health effects at a limited dosage, may kick off potential harmful side effects at (much) higher doses. The recently published B6 and B12 study once again seemed to suggest the same thing, I felt – albeit detrimental effects were mostly seen in male smokers, and further studies will have to show if these risks can be replicated. Weren't higher doses of Metformin associated with lactosis acidosis whereas a lower dose may potentially (still speculation) offer some health-/lifespan effects. Obviously these are different substances, but just to say: in general I prefer to follow a more cautious approach for these reasons.

Besides: we wouldn't want you back in the hospital again ;-). In general, also with regard to the other substances you are using, using such high doses doesn't seem like the wisest approach, if I might say.

 

Anecdotally I don't seem to notice a difference in (what I experience as) 'effectiveness' if I use a lower daily dose of BPC-157 versus a higher dose. Unless I'm in acute pain, in which case indeed the every 8 hours-administration (as was the protocol in the clinical trials I linked to) seems about right. As 8 hours after administration the pain seems to come back again (albeit in a milder form). But even if I'm administering the BPC-157 3x per 24 hours I'm using much smaller doses than the 3x 1mg that was used in the clinical trials I just posted.

I do seem to remember some studies did suggest a dose-dependent effectiveness of BPC-157 in rodents with an acute injury. But frankly I don't know the exact details currently. And I don't know how these doses would translate to humans either. But in that sense a temporarily higher dose (1mg a day for 10 days administered in 8-hourly doses) in case of an acute injury/as a more acute treatment, as I believe Aconita suggested, may make sense. But again: we don't have any research currently that confirms it is wise to use such high daily doses longterm - or if it may have potential side-effects in humans.

Edited by Leni, 10 October 2017 - 10:47 PM.

[DareDevil]

Hi Aconita,

 

Thanks for your kind words of caution. FWIW the GDF-11 is sourced from the US research lab Peprotech and doesn't have issues with its purity. Also, the tiny microbuses of less than a microgram are from what I have been able to determine only issued by personal recommendation of Steve Perry who, while indeed patient zero of this substance testing in vivo human experimentation, is not basing this on any medical or pharmaceutical data proving the lesser effectiveness or harmful side effects or higher dosages. The only thing I have heard to limit the use of larger doses of GDF-11 are the gastric reflux GERD effect which I haven't experienced. It is obvious that had I had negative side effects I would have either stopped or reduced dosage.

 

Your comments on the bell curve of dosage effectiveness is both sensible and from what I have gleaned corresponds to well documented pharmaceutical data about most medications. While this is no doubt true, what we are in presence of during the very first non supervised human experiments with new substances, is an unknown bell curve. This is the slope I am exploring, and clearly one of us must reach the limits to warn others of its perils. I'd rather not do so with more than a bad fever or a brief passage in the hospital, nobody wants a dread disease or lingering slow death, obviously. So I press the limits gently. Not going totally unreasonably beyond the threshold but nonetheless pushing the limit beyond normal caution. It is indeed a gamble, with one's health and well being, but hopefully not one's life.

 

 

Hi Leni,

 

I see that the study you referred to about dosage is ambiguous:

 

Phase 1b: All subjects will take 3 tablets of PCO-02 containing 1 mg of Bepecin every 8 hours during two weeks, to study safety and pharmacokinetics.

 

I wonder if this means that they take 3 pills at 1mg each of BPC-157 three times per day i.e. 9mg/day or if the 3 pills total 1mg making it 3mg/day?

 

Cheers,

 

DareDevil

[Moondancer]

Is it not possible to buy BPC 157-supplements somewhere? Or I have still some vials left , can I make supplements out of those? 

[aconita]

Not really, oral full effectiveness is achievable only with the patented stable version which isn't available on the market but only from one source: the patent holder.

 

As a supplement the daily dosage is 0.1mg, vials typically come in 5 or 10mg, once reconstituted has to be used before 15 days, quick math shows how it becomes unpractical.

 

Because the stable version is stable at room temperature with a shelf life of one year it is possible to use it in its solid form overcoming the above issues.

 

Acetate even non reconstituted (solid form) doesn't last long at room temperature and it is quite susceptible to get spoiled by air humidity once outside the sealed vial because of its hygroscopic nature.

   

[Rocket]

Hi Aconita,

Thanks for your kind words of caution. FWIW the GDF-11 is sourced from the US research lab Peprotech and doesn't have issues with its purity. Also, the tiny microbuses of less than a microgram are from what I have been able to determine only issued by personal recommendation of Steve Perry who, while indeed patient zero of this substance testing in vivo human experimentation, is not basing this on any medical or pharmaceutical data proving the lesser effectiveness or harmful side effects or higher dosages. The only thing I have heard to limit the use of larger doses of GDF-11 are the gastric reflux GERD effect which I haven't experienced. It is obvious that had I had negative side effects I would have either stopped or reduced dosage.

Your comments on the bell curve of dosage effectiveness is both sensible and from what I have gleaned corresponds to well documented pharmaceutical data about most medications. While this is no doubt true, what we are in presence of during the very first non supervised human experiments with new substances, is an unknown bell curve. This is the slope I am exploring, and clearly one of us must reach the limits to warn others of its perils. I'd rather not do so with more than a bad fever or a brief passage in the hospital, nobody wants a dread disease or lingering slow death, obviously. So I press the limits gently. Not going totally unreasonably beyond the threshold but nonetheless pushing the limit beyond normal caution. It is indeed a gamble, with one's health and well being, but hopefully not one's life.


Hi Leni,

I see that the study you referred to about dosage is ambiguous:

Phase 1b: All subjects will take 3 tablets of PCO-02 containing 1 mg of Bepecin every 8 hours during two weeks, to study safety and pharmacokinetics.

I wonder if this means that they take 3 pills at 1mg each of BPC-157 three times per day i.e. 9mg/day or if the 3 pills total 1mg making it 3mg/day?

Cheers,

DareDevil

I think that I understand why you call yourself daredevil after reading your last few posts!

[Leni]

Not really, oral full effectiveness is achievable only with the patented stable version which isn't available on the market but only from one source: the patent holder.

 

As a supplement the daily dosage is 0.1mg, vials typically come in 5 or 10mg, once reconstituted has to be used before 15 days, quick math shows how it becomes unpractical.

 

Because the stable version is stable at room temperature with a shelf life of one year it is possible to use it in its solid form overcoming the above issues.

 

Acetate even non reconstituted (solid form) doesn't last long at room temperature and it is quite susceptible to get spoiled by air humidity once outside the sealed vial because of its hygroscopic nature.

 

 

I too would like to make a supplement out of the (stable version of) BPC-157. Aconita, sorry but would you mind sharing how to prepare these caps? I know you mentioned mannitol - do you happen to know where could I find good quality mannitol in Europe? Many thanks!

[normalizing]

if everything works right and you guys finally figure out a good stable source or a group buy, please send me a msg, because im fed up going through all that argumentative boring chatter

[DareDevil]

Hazy,

 

Aconita has already organized a Group Buy from the one stable source of this substance, the patent holder Diagen. This is ongoing and the product is being made at this time for distribution to participants in a few weeks time. FWIW

 

DD

[normalizing]

how much do i have to pay for how much amount?

[DareDevil]

Hazy, I believe it is probably too late for the group buy as it ended several weeks ago. There will probably be another coming once the results are in and people report positive effects.

[Moondancer]

I wonder how good of an idea it is to all the time mention the patent and (name of the) patent holder and that they sell BPC 157 to individuals that they must of course know likely don't work in a research facility. They have been mentioned I don't know how many times in the topic, the topic is actually mostly about them. I'm sure they could say they only sell the BPC to research facilities. But as this topic that is readily available to anyone on the internet and that comes up high in Google underlines: they just sell it to anyone that wants to buy. So as said: they of course know they don't just sell to persons related to a research facility and that it is used for human consumption.  It will certainly hike up the prices for one. But there may be a whole different set of problems about this: can this give them trouble with regulatory organizations? Their credibility may suffer as company that normally manufactures the product for research purposes, and is now selling it to individuals for cash. This topic will illustrate the latter to anyone. Or they may themselves for those reasons back off and not sell it anymore to anyone not working in a research facility. I see a set of problems in mentioning this company all the time.

[aconita]

In facts I personally avoided mentioning sources on the forum.

 

Anyway it isn't sold for human consumption and whom sell does so explicitly for research purposes only, it isn't a restrict substance and freely available for research, the group buy itself is meant as an opportunity for researchers to get a better price.

 

 

[DareDevil]

Sorry guys, if some of you know the Mods please remove the name of the company I mentioned a few posts earlier. I will be more circumspect in future postings. I confused the content of other communications with the thread posts here and probably gave incorrect information above, so it should be removed by a Mod as it is too late for me to edit the post. Thx

[Moondancer]

In facts I personally avoided mentioning sources on the forum.

 

Anyway it isn't sold for human consumption and whom sell does so explicitly for research purposes only, it isn't a restrict substance and freely available for research, the group buy itself is meant as an opportunity for researchers to get a better price.

 

 

Not to turn this into an argument: but you have mentioned the source many times. Just a few posts above this post wherein you describe the consistency of the BPC you still did. Others didn't even know the name of the source until you first mentioned it. Others then took the name, ran away with it, and repeated it here. Now DareDevil in his posts, but before that: so did others. Plus on Reddit there are by now 4 topics especially about this source, with as reference Aconita from Longecity.

 

And anyone reading this topic will know the last part of what you now say is bullocks.

It is not my problem as I have good results with BPC 157 from another source. But I won't mention my source anymore here. And your source of course knows they are in these instances selling not for research purposes and that the group buy is not for researchers. Your entire topic emphasizes that. Have they asked you to prove from which research facility you are buying their product? They didn't. And selling to anyone not related to a research facility for cash could likely give them problems, aside that it could do considerable harm to their reputation and credibility.

Edited by Moondancer, 12 October 2017 - 09:55 PM.