4 replies to this topic

[Gallus]

Hi All,

New forum member here, and having read some excellent insights from the community I thought I would try here for help and insights into a problem which is seriously impacting my life...

To summarize

-I am a male in my early 30's
-I am in a long term loving relationship, and fathered children
- After ejaculation/orgasm I feel a noticeable drop in mood and motivation (I realise this is fairly normal), but in my case this seems to continue for 1-2 days and into extreme severity.
-initially (usually the morning after) I just feel a bit too relaxed / apathetic, but increasingly so..
- This drop continues into a bout of full blown depression, it feels like my motivation centre is completely offline - it is completely debilitating
-after 18 hours it is usually peaking, then gradually recedes back to normal, mood, motivation etc all fine, the longest was ~48 hours
-During these depressive bouts I cannot imagine/remember what it is like to not feel depressed, as though I have no reference point. It is an empty feeling I would not wish on anyone! L
-It feels purely 'brain chemistry' related, e.g I feel removed from waking up in the morning, have no psychological hang ups to speak of about sex, relationships etc (other than now fearing the oncoming depressive bout!)
-From my own research i have read about the Prolactin response in the male refractory period, and high prolactin/low Dopamine does seem like a prime culprit, but I do not know how to prove it, what to do about it etc
-I have read about 'P.O.I.S' online but I do not seem not have any other illness symptoms archetypal of this condition, only extreme depression
-Doctor has been unhelpful and has recommended depression counselling, (although I can stay depression free through abstinence)

*worth noting this seems to have become more evident over the past 6 months to 1 year

*I have no past or present libido problems, function seems normal

*I am not on any medication, but I have recently been diagnosed with a Vitamin D deficiency (26nmol/L) and for the past month have been supplementing 3200iu daily with 75mg magnesium (may or may not be related?)

*I have tested to see whether masturbation has a different result to sex, it appears to be the same result and severity.

I would obviously like to find a 'cure' for this and would be infinitely thankful if anyone could provide me with help and insights!

-any ideas on a possible root cause / treatment?
-short term how can I prevent, manage, get myself out of the depressive bout when triggered!
-anyone else out there who experiences this?

[SoundsAboutRight]

This is gonna sound like a far off recommendation, but try an antioxidant. This has been helpful with some people.

 

Vitamin C is an antioxidant and fairly cheap. It should indicate whether this route will provide any support. Definitely dose after any sexual activity.

 

The TD50 of Vitamin C is like 69G, so no risk of toxicity.

 

I recommend 2g-3g of Vitamin C two to four times daily. If you get a headache the dose was too large. I took 3g got a headache and lowered it to 2g.

 

Also you can try Vitamin E - another antioxidant

Also you can try ALA @ 300mg once or twice daily

Also you can try Astaxanthin 4g once or twice daily

Edited by mfad, 27 May 2017 - 11:12 PM.

[jaiho]

Ive read some case reports of people suffering this.

A doctor typically prescribes a low dose SSRI, which seems to resolve the problem in most people.

 

I'd visit your doctor or psychiatrist for advice. 

[Mind_Paralysis]

Hmm... reading up on this, I'm not sure how you can say that you don't fit the description of POIS? Seems to me you have all of it, just not too as strong of a degree as the depressive part!

 

Have a look:

 

Post orgasmic illness syndrome (POIS)

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5001999/

 

 

1. Criterium 1. One or more of the following symptoms: sensation of a flu-like state, extreme fatigue or exhaustion, weakness of musculature, experiences of feverishness or perspiration, mood disturbances and/or irritability, memory difficulties, concentration problems, incoherent speech, congestion of nose or watery nose, itching eyes;
2. Criterium 2. All symptoms occur immediately (e.g., seconds), soon (e.g., minutes), or within a few hours after ejaculation that is initiated by coitus, and/or masturbation, and/or spontaneously (e.g., during sleep);
3. Criterium 3. Symptoms occur always or nearly always, e.g., in more than 90% of ejaculation events;
4. Criterium 4. Most of these symptoms last for about 2 to 7 days;
5. Criterium 5. The symptoms disappear spontaneously.

 

 

 

Some of the criterium also just seem to describe variations on the same thing as well... or do you mean the seven clusters of symptoms? Look closely though - are you CERTAIN that you don't have any of these symptoms, even if they are very, very faint?

 

 

1. Cluster 1 (general cluster): extreme fatigue, exhausted, palpitations, problems finding words, incoherent speech, dysarthria, concentration difficulties, quickly irritated, can not stand noice, photophobia, depressed mood;
2. Cluster 2 (flu-like cluster): feverish, extreme warmth, perspiration, shivery, ill with flu, feeling sick, feeling cold;
3. Cluster 3 (head cluster): headache, foggy feeling in the head, heavy feeling in the head;
4. Cluster 4 (eyes cluster): burning, red injected eyes, blurred vision, watery, irritating, itching eyes, painful eyes;
5. Cluster 5 (nose cluster): congestion nose, watery, runny nose, sneezing;
6. Cluster 6 (throat cluster): dirty taste in mouth, dry mouth, sore throat, tickling cough, hoarse voice;
7. Cluster 7 (muscle cluster): muscle tenstion in back or neck, muscle weakness, pain muscles, heavy legs, stiffness muscles.

 

 

 

Apparently this is a form of auto-immune disease... your immune-system thinks the liquid in your semen (not the sperm themselves) is a hostile, toxic substance, and hence responds as if you had been poisoned or infected by a virus. They haven't identified the substance in seminal fluid which causes the reaction though.

 

Hmm... they speak of Cytokines...

 

there are indications that POIS is triggered by  specific  cytokines 

 

(yeah, but WHICH ONES, Motherf***er?! I guess there is insufficient data on which cytokines are the culprit, 'cause I didn't find sh*t.)

 

 

Do we know of any antidepressants which lower cytokines the most? Apparently there is several implicated in depression, but not every Antidepressant lowers every cytokine, or lower them uniformly.

 

The Effect of Antidepressant Medication Treatment on Serum Levels of Inflammatory Cytokines: A Meta-Analysis

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3194072/

 

(interesting note - since not every antidepressant lowers inflammatory cytokines, yet still abolishes depression, this implies that not all forms of depression are caused by an inflammatory state)

 

 

Anyways, in depressed people, the inflammatory cytokines: TNFα, IL-6, and IL-1β, are all elevated - however, antidepressants only seem to lower IL-6 and IL-1beta, and not TNF-alpha - yet they still work against depression, this could mean that IL-6 and IL-1Beta are more the cause of depression than TNF-alpha.

 

So, it seems as if SSRI's lower both IL-6 and IL-1beta... I guess JAIHO might be right that a low dose of an SSRI would be useful here... Not sure when it's best to take it, depends on the SSRI and your metabolism - you want it to take effect about on the same time you're done with sexual activities, but this of course varies, although honestly? Not by much... ; ) Taking it straight after sex will probably work, but you might get some discomfort still then - but wait! You noticed most of the symptoms the DAY AFTER, right?

 

Well, then it shouldn't be any problems! ^^ Take the AD straight after sex, and you should be good to go.

 

 

If someone could dig through the data and find which substances and/or antidepressants which lowers both IL-6 and IL-1beta the most, then that would be lovely - we want OPTIMUM treatment! PERFECTION should be the mark to aim for.

[SoundsAboutRight]

I can also add that when one ejaculates the mind becomes slightly more sensitive. If you have joint pain it might be correlated with high homocysteine levels which can cause a burning sensation throughout the body. But you just might recognize and misinterpret this as "joint pain".

 

There is also undermethylation depression and ejaculation might make you more susceptible to the onset of random depression episodes which you would associate with orgasm.