848 replies to this topic

[Moondancer]

I should have added that MeatSauce was very responsive to me initially, and seemed kind and reliable. So as someone rightfully pointed out: let's first try to contact him personally before drawing any conclusions.

My post may have been a bit panicky, as I've been (massively) fooled once when I had bought something online, and because of health issues.

[jdlancaster519]

I would relax... I'm not surprised he hasn't been watching this thread. It has gone off the rails so to speak. Also, who knows what may be going on in his personal life at the moment... He coulda been hit by a car... A sick family member... Could be a reservist at annual training... Hiking the app trail... abducted by aliens... "Insert ridiculous possibility here"...etc.

If you're worried about what is sent, I would recommend that you buy it directly yourself and do the testing at a lab yourself. The peace of mind may be worth it for you. If that is too expensive then don't buy it.
The back and forth with people is no doubt tiring for him.
If I put a deposit on something custom made... Then no longer wanted to buy it... Usually I would lose my deposit... But maybe someone else would be willing to step in and grab what you committed to buy.
I hope meatsauce is in good health and the aliens return him shortly.

[OP2040]

I would relax... I'm not surprised he hasn't been watching this thread. It has gone off the rails so to speak. Also, who knows what may be going on in his personal life at the moment... He coulda been hit by a car... A sick family member... Could be a reservist at annual training... Hiking the app trail... abducted by aliens... "Insert ridiculous possibility here"...etc.

If you're worried about what is sent, I would recommend that you buy it directly yourself and do the testing at a lab yourself. The peace of mind may be worth it for you. If that is too expensive then don't buy it.
The back and forth with people is no doubt tiring for him.
If I put a deposit on something custom made... Then no longer wanted to buy it... Usually I would lose my deposit... But maybe someone else would be willing to step in and grab what you committed to buy.
I hope meatsauce is in good health and the aliens return him shortly.

 

First of all, no one is hysterical here, so there's no need to relax.  I brought this up because I have a concern, as would any normal person who has a lot (even aside from money) invested in a project. 

 

The group of people in the second group buy, who share my concern, are not making any accusations.  And we have discussed all the ways in which this could be many other things besides a scam.  I'm still convinced meatsauce is/was the real deal, but it's perfectly normal to ask questions after a time of no response.  And even if he is the real deal, aside from some tragic event, there should still be some communication. 

 

By the tone of your post, it is you who should relax.  Long, complicated discussions seem to bother/confuse you.  Also, you seem to have no ambition whatsoever.  The gist of your whole post is if it's too hard, why bother.  If it's too expensive, give up.  If someone goes dark, don't speak up.  If there is a lively debate or discussion, meekly cower and declare that it's not worth my time. 

 

We'll carry on discussing and asking questions.  We don't need the permission of someone who sounds like they would be to shy to ask questions in the first place,

[jdlancaster519]

Hysterical- deriving from or affected by uncontrolled extreme emotion.
Relax- make or become less tense or anxious
I try to relax all the time... No hysteria needed. It's good for the blood pressure. Put your feet up have a beer and relax my friend. There does seem to be some anxiety and tension over this.
You don't have a lot invested in this "project"... Money, time, or otherwise... (Unless you wrote the grant on the research or are one of the researchers, in that case you are right).
There is no tone, it is a written communication with my honest recommendations for you to get the results that you're looking for. I want you to get exactly what you are asking for. Nothing more nothing less.
I'm not confused.. and going ad hominem is inappropriate for this forum and does not add any value to the discussion.
As far as my ambition... Currently working on my PhD in Genomics/bioinformatics and I hope to publish 2 papers this year. Also, hoping to add a 6th language (interagency language round table level 2) to my military record. Recently got promoted to Captain too (USAR). But, my ambitions really have nothing to do with you getting the compound you want and independently confirming it.
I certainly didn't say give up... I encourage you to take the responsibility upon yourself. Buy the product yourself and send it to a third party lab for confirmation testing. That is my recommendation for you. This is not prohibitively expensive.
The gist of my post is to take responsibility and do it yourself instead of waiting on others to do it for you.

[DareDevil]

FWIW I paid in November and received my package at the end of March. I had my own questions wondering what was up but I think that it may take second place to other priorities at this time. It is possible that he had seroius problems that eclipsed this project and cause him to be offline. Folks here who know him personally can maybe help explain, but with time we can hope that he'll be back on board with us again. Regarding whether it is real or not, I can't say what others got but mine had the usual melted plastic coating on the vials from the US company who delivered, so it seems fairly circumspect. Plus as I did get a noticeable effect, if it wasn't Foxo4, let me know what it was, because I want more.  ;-D

 

Cheers

 

DD

[smithx]

It could be possible to verify Meatsauce's order, if anyone wants to take the trouble to do so. There's a GenScript lot number associated with it, which someone could probably get GenScript to confirm in terms of what was produced and in what quantity.

 

I also did get a quote last year from Pepscan, the company that produced the peptide used in the published study. At the time, it was about €17,940 for 2G, plus another €800 for aliquoting to 5mg vials plus shipping (from Switzerland). So that would be about $900 or so for a course of 90mg of the peptide.

 

This quote didn't guarantee purity above 90% however. Here are the specs:

•  

• 2000mg lyophilized product

• C-term; free acid

• N-term; free amine

• pHPLC purification

• Purity 90% up to 99%

• MS-UPLC analysis (UV and Mass)

All custom peptide synthesis orders are subject to potential synthesis difficulties. Specified purities refer to UPLC purities obtained with linear gradient system (gradient: 5-55% B in 2 min, flow: 1 ml/min, eluent A: 100 %H2O+0.05% TFA; eluent B: 100% CH3CN+ 0.05% TFA; ) using an C18 RP-HPLC column (i.e. C18, 1,7um, 50x2,1mm) and detection at 215nm. Specified columns and gradient systems may be substituted by similar products/gradients with comparable or better resolution without prior notice. Pepscan offers confirmation of purities detected using the routine protocols above by performing secondary analysis using optimized HPLC conditions including different gradient systems, eluents, column materials and dimensions. All orders for custom peptides are accepted by Pepscan Presto B.V. subject to the proviso that, should the peptides prove difficult to synthesize or to purify, we reserve the right to cancel the order or to supply a product at lower yield or purity than quoted. Resynthesis of a peptide will only be undertaken at Pepscan Presto’s direction. Reduced prices will apply where lower mass and/or purity is obtained; the price is scaled in proportion to our list prices. Peptides are delivered based on gross peptide weight, unless stated otherwise. Quantities in μmol or mmol indicate the scale the synthesis of the product is started at (not the amount of deliverable product).

 

[Rocket]

FWIW I paid in November and received my package at the end of March. I had my own questions wondering what was up but I think that it may take second place to other priorities at this time. It is possible that he had seroius problems that eclipsed this project and cause him to be offline. Folks here who know him personally can maybe help explain, but with time we can hope that he'll be back on board with us again. Regarding whether it is real or not, I can't say what others got but mine had the usual melted plastic coating on the vials from the US company who delivered, so it seems fairly circumspect. Plus as I did get a noticeable effect, if it wasn't Foxo4, let me know what it was, because I want more. ;-D

Cheers

DD

It's called placebo.

I've seen your review... It reads like snake oil placebo affects. For all the hype of this peptide I haven't seen anyone with real effects. It seems like a total bust. Save your money. Seems like an expensive waste of money when the only effect is PIP... post injection pain.

Edited by Rocket, 22 May 2018 - 01:15 AM.

[jdlancaster519]

Unless you're doing tests similar to what was done in the paper, or other objective tests done in other peer-reviewed research it all is just a guess. It could definitely be placebo... Or there are effects that you don't feel or are unaware of. Personally, I'm just interested in if anyone has major side effects because nobody did blood tests or other tests before and after

[meatsauce]

Hey everyone sorry for not being on the boards for a while. I assure you everything is ok! 

I would have had the foxo4dri by now but there was a miscommunication and I thought I had officially placed the order for both the epitalon and foxo4dri but they were just working on the epitalon and thymalin. That one is complete and I will be receive it this week. 

I promise everyone will get their foxo4dri orders soon!

[OP2040]

woohoo!

 

meatsauce, I hope you understand where I was coming from.  It's nothing personal. 

It's just that this is the first time I've ever done something like this and it's a little unnerving. 

[Doubleup]

I have been reading a bit about FOXO4 for awhile now and have not ordered mainly due to cost

I was wondering if anyone read much on its effects on dopamine neurons? I have read FOXO3 can be damaging to dopamine neurons while read that FOXO4 could potentially be of benefit... However then read that if there are damaged neurons it could provoke a potential negative effect... Curious as to it possible Parkinson’s and other neurodegenerative bennifits

[stponky]

Is it still possible to get in on the 2nd group buy or is it too late?

[jdlancaster519]

Doubleup...I could be wrong, but i would not use conclusions from fox03 research and assume it's the same for fox04. They are different proteins with different interactions even if they share some similarities. Also the FOX-04 dri peptide is not Fox04. From my understanding, Fox04dri is believed to interfere with a specific interaction between fox04 and p53. P53 induces apoptosis, Fox04 prevents p53 from doing its job.
I would limit your expectations to Fox04 dri may induce apoptosis in senescent cells.

[YOLF]

Doubleup...I could be wrong, but i would not use conclusions from fox03 research and assume it's the same for fox04. They are different proteins with different interactions even if they share some similarities. Also the FOX-04 dri peptide is not Fox04. From my understanding, Fox04dri is believed to interfere with a specific interaction between fox04 and p53. P53 induces apoptosis, Fox04 prevents p53 from doing its job.
I would limit your expectations to Fox04 dri may induce apoptosis in senescent cells.

Which could include cells involved with Parkinson's. It would be important in such a situation to have a plan for inducing growth to replace the cells that have been removed. Otherwise the condition might become worse.

[extendcel]

Doubleup...I could be wrong, but i would not use conclusions from fox03 research and assume it's the same for fox04. They are different proteins with different interactions even if they share some similarities. Also the FOX-04 dri peptide is not Fox04. From my understanding, Fox04dri is believed to interfere with a specific interaction between fox04 and p53. P53 induces apoptosis, Fox04 prevents p53 from doing its job.
I would limit your expectations to Fox04 dri may induce apoptosis in senescent cells.

From a quick glance at the diagram of how foxo4dri works, I can see that foxo4-dri isn't foxo4, but rather a competitive inhibitor of foxo4 for the p53 binding domain. If someone were to take FOXO4 then it would achieve the opposite effect of foxo4 dri. Of course, that is considering they take the full protein and not a peptide fragment.

[OP2040]

I'm still fairly excited to try this.  The intriguing part was always the idea that it could cover one entire hallmark of aging with just one or two small rounds per lifetime.  That is the gold standard that we're all looking for in any therapy.

 

There has to be some way to measure senescent cells, even if it's an approximation, that would help tremendously.

[jdlancaster519]

Which could include cells involved with Parkinson's. It would be important in such a situation to have a plan for inducing growth to replace the cells that have been removed. Otherwise the condition might become worse.

Baker et al. 2018 suggests that senescent cells contribute to accelerating decline in those with neurodegenerative disease. That means removal of senescent cells may prevent the disease from progressing faster due to senescent cells damaging surrounding tissue.
However, I think attempting something like this in someone with these diseases may be very risky outside the scope of a clinical trial. Too many unknown unknowns... But it's not my body or my business what people do.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/29457783/

As far as neurogenesis goes... I'm not familiar with it, but I think it is a great topic for another thread. I am hopeful for something in the future to prevent my eventual cognitive decline.

[Doubleup]

Thanks all for your thoughts and input! Considering the sensitivity of these cells and my situation I think best to avoid this for now without further information. Parts of this sound exciting for future research.

Sorry to have somewhat distracted the purpose of this thread, definitely could be a good thread to continue in the future!

[ekaitz]

Hey everyone sorry for not being on the boards for a while. I assure you everything is ok! 

I would have had the foxo4dri by now but there was a miscommunication and I thought I had officially placed the order for both the epitalon and foxo4dri but they were just working on the epitalon and thymalin. That one is complete and I will be receive it this week. 

I promise everyone will get their foxo4dri orders soon!

 

I asked in the epitalon thread to purchase but I think I came a bit too late. May be some excess product from Epitalon group purchase so I can have some? Thanks.

Edited by ekaitz, 24 May 2018 - 03:52 PM.

[Moondancer]

Thanks MeatSauce for all your effort.

I was wondering how things are standing with the 2nd group buy currently.

I placed my order for that in January. Admittedly I have been rather absent myself the past month though, because of chronic illness.

 

I understood from MeatSauce that he has used another supplier than Genscript, as Genscript wanted to charge more for the second order and took a lot of time to finish the order. Thanks for searching for alternatives, MeatSauce.

What is the name of the current supplier (PM is fine too, if preferred). Do they use the same quality standards, will the purity be the same, and does the supplier guarantee TFA-removal? Frankly I had thought the Foxo4-dri-peptide would come from Genscript, which was a bit of an reassurance to me. I would personally prefer to pay a bit more and use PepScan, as has been suggested a few times, if Genscript is unable to produce the peptide.

 

Thanks for any input.

 

[RenewYou]

Hi FOXO Group

 

I wondered if anyone else here was part of the Epitalon / Thymalin group buy as well?

 

I ask as I am part of both the 2nd round of FOXO4 & the Epitalon group buy & recently received what was supposed to be the latter however....

 

I was both surprised & supremely disappointed & wondered about other's experience as it was a good chunk of my very hard earned money I spent & literally received nothing for it.

 

1) I was told the peptide was to be in 10mg vials so that small amounts could be used daily without the 20 day post-reconstitution expiration date kicking in, rendering it useless & instead it came in micro, plastic, unsealed tubes w/ little to nothing inside except small condensation droplets & labels stating 50mg

 

2) Aside from the fact that there is little to no peptide in most of these tiny plastic tubes, there is no way to reconstitute / use the peptide in a sterile manner in the micro-plastic tubes that were sent as there is no way to keep it sealed & no room for bacteriostatic water

 

3) Finally, I did reach out to meatsauce via email 5+ times asking what could be done to rectify the fact that I spent over $600 and have literally no product to show for it & got no useful response

 

As much as I appreciate meatsauce & his efforts to organize these group buys, I am saddened by what has happened & thought it best share this info here, as I do not wish anyone else to have to go through what I have had to.

 

I'd had high hopes for this purchase & FOXO4 both, as I'm sure many here do. However, after this first experience I would be highly suspect about ordering here from him / this vendour (I believe this may be the same vendour as the FOXO4 group buy as well although I cannot be sure) And for anyone else who did order I do hope you had a far more successful experience than I, for I just lost all that I invested with no recourse 

 

Best

 

[extendcel]

If you want to salvage it, I suggest getting a sterilized sealed vial and a .2 micron syringe filter. Reconstitute it with bac water and filter it through the filter into the vial using sterile procedures. Then flush the filter with some more water into the vial.

[jdlancaster519]

Renewyou- you might be able salvage things...
1. That sucks you didn't get things in the packaging that you wanted. It certainly makes things more difficult. I would caution against saying there is nothing in the tubes... What you see as condensate might be your peptide. I've seen this often while working with very small amounts of dna.
I'm not sure what you mean by unsealed tubes... Perhaps a picture would help. Sending open vials seems strange.
2. You should be able to order some sterile injection vials: https://www.mountain...injection-10-ml
You should be able to add a little bacteriostatic water to the original container to aid with extraction and then inject the appropriate dosage in each sterile vial and then add your bacteriostatic water (or whatever you mix).
3. I can't really comment on this other than it would be rather difficult to get a refund for this. It would be good if some others might purchase the product on their own. I would say though, these are very speculative purchases and probably shouldn't be done unless you have money to burn... Whey protein, BCAAs, a proper diet, and a training program would be far more effective and cost efficient for most people.
That said I do love the science behind this stuff... Good luck to all

[Moondancer]

RenewYou, sorry to hear about your experience. I had planned to take part in the second FOXO4-dri group buy, and made my payment to Ryan this past January. I did this based on the agreement (as he had stated) that the peptide would be manufactured by GenScript, with the specifications as communicated by him.

 

Please send me a PM if you want, as well as anyone else taking part in the second group buy. 

.

 

[OP2040]

I wouldn't lose hope on the FOX04-dri just yet.  After all, the initial group buy did seem to go very well.  I don't think we should potentially scare meatsauce away by developing into a lynch mob lol.  Delivering the product, and it being what it is supposed to be is the main thing here.  If he does that , I'm not too worried about packaging or any extra work I need to do in order to use it.  Bottom line is that we are all learning as we go, and things like that are very important lessons for next time around. 

[Moondancer]

A lynch mob is not the goal here and no one has suggested to start a lynch mob. But I do not agree that some real concern and caution is not warranted at this point. I agreed with certain purchase details when I sent over $800 to MeatSauce. (To me that is a lot of money). One of these details was the fact the peptide would be coming from GenScript. If you purchase a product, you do so based on certain details and terms that are part of the agreement. 

 

Either way, I feel there is reason to have some decent concerns by now about this group buy. And I find some responses a bit naive, frankly. Albeit it is not my intention to start a lynch mob, and I have not started a lynch mob: I have the right to express my concern. Personally I would not inject a peptide of which I don't know the supplier.

[Moondancer]

Btw: I emailed MeatSauce twice the past weeks to ask who the new supplier was for the second group buy of FOXO4-dri, and haven't received any response to either of my emails. 

[triguy]

Hey everyone sorry for not being on the boards for a while. I assure you everything is ok! 

I would have had the foxo4dri by now but there was a miscommunication and I thought I had officially placed the order for both the epitalon and foxo4dri but they were just working on the epitalon and thymalin. That one is complete and I will be receive it this week. 

I promise everyone will get their foxo4dri orders soon!

 

 

Hello,

 

Which Product group buys are still "OPEN"?

 

 

thank you

R

[Moondancer]

Hello,

 

Which Product group buys are still "OPEN"?

 

 

thank you

R

 

 

Well you may gladly take over my share in the second FOXO4-DRI group buy - not sure if I'd recommend it at this stage though.

Edited by Moondancer, 25 June 2018 - 02:39 AM.

[meatsauce]

Hi everyone they said 80% of it is done and it should be finished in a week.