848 replies to this topic

[RenewYou]

meatsauce said he must have mistakenly used a bag that had been used for food before thus the sticky goop & bits of dark matter throughout the entire thing &  stuck to vials

 

Still not useable as they are now covered in whatever was in the bag

 

I'm not comfortable trying to clean them off enough to salvage as alcohol would seep in & ruin the 2 vials that do contain a substance as they are not in sealed glass but plastic & don't think they are waterproof (nor protected from whatever was in the bag)

 

My phone camera is broken so I'll see if a friend can snap shots for me 

[extendcel]

meatsauce said he must have mistakenly used a bag that had been used for food before thus the sticky goop & bits of dark matter throughout the entire thing & stuck to vials

Still not useable as they are now covered in whatever was in the bag

I'm not comfortable trying to clean them off enough to salvage as alcohol would seep in & ruin the 2 vials that do contain a substance as they are not in sealed glass but plastic & don't think they are waterproof (nor protected from whatever was in the bag)

My phone camera is broken so I'll see if a friend can snap shots for me

Why are there empty vials? The lack of care shown for something costing over $1000 is pretty ridiculous.

[smithx]

meatsauce said he must have mistakenly used a bag that had been used for food before thus the sticky goop & bits of dark matter throughout the entire thing &  stuck to vials

 

So your purchase from Meatsauce came literally covered in meat sauce? WTF!?!

[RenewYou]

Meatsauce has said to send it back & that he will refund the cost when he is able - which is kind of him.

 

It seemed to be a mistake / human error using plastic shrink wrap which had been previously used for food.

 

I believe we must all be ultra careful sanitation-wise, with all we use topically, ingested & especially injected, especially in this grand experiment we're bravely embarking on. Eliminating as many stray variables as possible is of the utmost importance otherwise we'll never know what is what in the end & may ultimately saddle us with negative consequences we never intended. 

 

May the learning curve safely continue ~

[aribadabar]

Meatsauce has said to send it back & that he will refund the cost when he is able - which is kind of him.

 

I see it more as a lame attempt at damage control.

Given the previous reports with meatsauce's actions, take his " when I am able" with a shovel of salt.

 

I am shocked as you are how one can be such an irresponsible individual with others' funds&merchandise entrusted with him.

This food wrapper fiasco should not have even entered the realm of possibility of shipping AN INJECTABLE compound.

The fact that some of the vials are empty adds insult to injury.

 

I strongly recommend all of the participants in this ordeal to follow through with their lawsuit idea so no one ever tries to pull off such antics again.

Edited by aribadabar, 24 October 2018 - 10:39 PM.

[RenewYou]

Will keep you posted & sure do hope you're wrong, that the refund actually happens sooner vs later as I just wish to move on from this 

[MikeSh]

Considering the likelihood that senescenct cell population increases with age, what would possibly be most useful would be results in a 60-90 year old, ideally one with a pre-existing record in some endurane or strength sport to compare to. Anything like that likely to happen?

[Daniel Cooper]

meatsauce said he must have mistakenly used a bag that had been used for food before thus the sticky goop & bits of dark matter throughout the entire thing &  stuck to vials

 

Still not useable as they are now covered in whatever was in the bag

 

I'm not comfortable trying to clean them off enough to salvage as alcohol would seep in & ruin the 2 vials that do contain a substance as they are not in sealed glass but plastic & don't think they are waterproof (nor protected from whatever was in the bag)

 

My phone camera is broken so I'll see if a friend can snap shots for me 

 

 

Someone shipped you an injectable in a baggie that previously housed his ham sandwich?

 

Totally unacceptable.

 

No way in hell I'd use something sourced from someone that treated a injectable so carelessly.

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 05 November 2018 - 09:04 PM.

[jabowery]

Someone shipped you an injectable in a baggie that previously housed his ham sandwich?

 

Totally unacceptable.

 

No way in hell I'd use something sourced from someone that treated a injectable so carelessly.

Is this some kind of joke, or is it some sort of false flag operation to justify government clampdown on people trying to save their lives from the government's sclerotic institutions?

[Daniel Cooper]

Is this some kind of joke, or is it some sort of false flag operation to justify government clampdown on people trying to save their lives from the government's sclerotic institutions?

 

 

You'd have to ask meatsauce about that.  He's the one that's shipping peptides smeared in mayonnaise.

[RenewYou]

It appears as if meatsauce has decided to keep both the tainted peptide & my money

 

I mailed it back to him upon our agreement that he would refund me, however since sending him tracking info for the package, I've not heard a word from him despite my many attempts to acquire a refund date

 

I can only assume at this point he has decided to keep both the peptide & the money I paid him for it

 

I know somehow I'll earn the money back over time & one day prehaps be able to purchase real, sterile FOXO4 but It saddens me to see a human behave with such carelessness & what now appears to be intentional malice

 

:(

[smithx]

There may be legal options you could pursue.

 

It appears as if meatsauce has decided to keep both the tainted peptide & my money

 

I mailed it back to him upon our agreement that he would refund me, however since sending him tracking info for the package, I've not heard a word from him despite my many attempts to acquire a refund date

 

I can only assume at this point he has decided to keep both the peptide & the money I paid him for it

 

I know somehow I'll earn the money back over time & one day prehaps be able to purchase real, sterile FOXO4 but It saddens me to see a human behave with such carelessness & what now appears to be intentional malice

 

:(

 

[Moondancer]

First: sorry for the person that received the peptide packaged like that, and now lost both his peptide and money. That obviously sucks very much. 

 

With regard to the comment of MeatSauce having had a malicious intent, I think something else is at play. Frankly having had a bit more feedback since I last posted here, MeatSauce really doesn't appear to have had a malicious intent imo. I do think he thought he could perhaps earn some money with this group buy, and with arranging group buys in general. (When I did an online search months back I found a website somewhere that indicated he was interested in setting up a peptide business or something, if I remember it well). However in the process he may have realized how much more time consuming such a group buy is and requiring a meticulous approach, and that he got a bit overwhelmed and in over his head. I don't want to speculate too much but he seems to be running into some financial issues too. So I tend to think panic is the reason he disappeared. He probably wants to pay you back and didn't want to let you down and that is why he promised to do so, but doesn't have the finances. That is my impression a bit frankly after the entire saga. I understand that doesn't make it much better for you though. It still sucks obviously.

[Moondancer]

I saw some recent comments of De Keizer btw, and he of course could not and did not recommend buying and using FOXO4-dri on yourself. He did however mention that he knew people were buying FOXO4-dri and trying it on themselves. And that he didn't think they were using 'the real deal' (in fact his comment seemed to suggest he had actually had access to some of these peptides sold as FOXO4-dri and had them tested). So that again strengthens me in my belief that if another group buy is arranged, it is the most sensible approach to order the peptide from the manufacturers for De Keizer's study (as Smithx already suggested back then). 

 

I am still interested in such a group buy. I gave up a few months back since members said they were interested but later decided they were not (which I understand and I think it is good people only do this if they really stand behind it). However, it meant that in the end there were not enough members to come up with a decent group buy. 

 

If members are still interested in such a group buy, I would love to hear it. 

This is what I came up with the last time, but this is months back, so I'd like to hear if these members are still interested: 

1. Gregv 100mg

2. Death2aging 300mg

3 Moondancer 100mg

4. Hrub 100mg

5. Benko 100mg (not sure if you decided you didn't want to partake after all, Benko?)

6. Anonymous member 100mg

 

Are these members still interested now (2-3 months later)? 

Did I forget about anyone or would anyone else still want to partake? 

We were hoping we could get 100mg (in 10mg aliquots) for an approximate price of $1500 from the manufacturer for De Keizer's study at a purity level of >95%. But I really have no clue about the price at this point, as we don't have a recent price quote from them yet. 

[stponky]

"he didn't think they were using 'the real deal' "

 

I would say this is true. I have tried 3 suppliers so far.

Meatsauce's first group buy (I don't remember who the supplier was)

Meatsauce's second group buy (Novopro)

Chengdu Youngshe Chemical Co., Ltd.

 

The first supplier was in glass vials with rubber tops which I think was the closest to the real deal.

Novopro was in plastic vials sealed with tape. It looked like the first supplier but more clumpy. I worry that the plastic vials are not as good at sealing out moisture.

Youngshe and had plastic vials sealed with tape. They had more material in the vial but it did not look as white as the other ones.

 

If you are ordering from these places, I would be sure that you ask for glass vials with rubber tops. And, as Moondancer said, it is going to cost a lot but material from a lab in the US or Europe is a plus in my opinion.

[OP2040]

The sad thing is that I’m on the Fisetin bandwagon now, but have this stuff sitting in my freezer. It will probably go to waste. If someone wants to buy it for half price/OBO, let me know.

[RenewYou]

Thank you "Smithx" - although I do not think I have any options. At least it seems I do not. Not even sure I'd have the physical / emotional energy to pursue at this point even if I did. 

 

And "Moondancer" - that's all well & good, your comments re "no malicious intent." But like many of us here, we chose to experiment because nothing else has worked. We are at the end.

 

For him to ask me to overnight the product back (which I did) and still steal the money is, in my mind, malicious & immoral

 

That's 'nice' he has someone like you sticking up for him after all he's done, but he's stolen money, time & hope from me & perhaps others.

 

That, in my opinion, is malicious 

 

I just hope no one ever pays him one cent, nor trusts him again as what he is doing / has done; messing with people's hopes & bank accounts, is criminal

 

 

 

 

Edited by RenewYou, 26 November 2018 - 01:37 AM.

[Robert Seitz]

I should probably weigh in here regarding my own experience with "Meatsauce'" FOX04-dri. I received my FOX04-dri ampules about six weeks ago. I took them to my anti-aging physician who has been injecting them 10-20 milligrams at a time.  I've proceeded cautiously because at 89, who knows how many senescent cells I have?. So far, I haven't noticed any adverse effects except for soreness at the site of injection. It's always gone by the next day. As for positive effects, it's probably a bit early to expect anything.dramatic. 
   
The ampules have printed labeling on them and they're lyophilized. I've speculated that the company which is producing them may not have had incentive to ship a counterfeit product with such a small order. But of course, that's sheer speculation on my part.

I'm also switching to fisetin, along with the just-announced Life Extension Foundation senolytic capsules containing querdetin and theaflavins.

[Imlerith1337]

Breakthrough biolabs was mentioned on the self-experimentation blog is back up and has it on sale and they have a group/resaler pricing deal, anyone interested in doing a group buy? They have a resellers/bulk purchases option.

Edited by Imlerith1337, 14 December 2018 - 09:27 PM.

[Robert Seitz]

Yes, I'd be interested.

[smithx]

The problem with buying from anyone other than the company that produced the peptide used in the paper is that there's no way of knowing it's correct.

 

The fact that even Genscript, which is a reputable supplier, had a lot of trouble producing this and purifying it is a warning that other companies are likely to give you something other than the real compound, due not necessarily to malice but to difficulties in production.

 

Breakthrough biolabs was mentioned on the self-experimentation blog is back up and has it on sale and they have a group/resaler pricing deal, anyone interested in doing a group buy? They have a resellers/bulk purchases option.

 

Edited by smithx, 16 December 2018 - 08:12 PM.

[Imlerith1337]

They are offering MS/HPLC Reports with it though.

[smithx]

For HPLC to be of use, you have to compare your unknown (the product they are selling in this case) to a known pure sample. Where are they getting the sample from?

 

MS also is not guaranteed to detect a problem with a peptide, if the peptide contains all the same amino acid residues but not the correct structure. 

 

HPLC may or may not show a difference either, depending on the type of column. If it's the right sort of ionic column then there might be a difference in retention time, but then again there might not, if the two compounds have the same molecular weight. This is why electrophoresis is often used to separate polypeptides.

 

http://www.ruf.rice....ge/gellab3.html

 

 

They are offering MS/HPLC Reports with it though.

 

 

Edited by smithx, 17 December 2018 - 06:04 AM.

[smithx]

I looked at the analyses provided by Breakthrough Labs on their site, and the only thing that's clear to me from looking at their graphs is that they have a pure compound of some sort.

 

There is no HPLC comparison between what they have and a standard but that analysis provides no evidence at all as to what compound was tested.

 

The MS graph shows that an MS was done, but again doesn't show anything about what the results mean or compare them with a spectrum from a known-good standard of the same compound.

 

Neither analysis indicates let alone proves anything about what compound they are selling.

 

 

 

 

 

[TaiChiKid]

The problem with buying from anyone other than the company that produced the peptide used in the paper is that there's no way of knowing it's correct.

 

The fact that even Genscript, which is a reputable supplier, had a lot of trouble producing this and purifying it is a warning that other companies are likely to give you something other than the real compound, due not necessarily to malice but to difficulties in production.

 

Since Genscript has such a good reputation, why not have a long time poster/member here arrange a group buy for those still wishing to try this senolytic?  Some long time poster may be willing to arrange a group buy given, say, a 10% cut for his organizing the buy..  Genscript's difficulty producing it caused them to raise their prices, but at least one recipient did a basic measurement and shared his methodology with me when asked.  Mind you, he only measured the pH...

[smithx]

I don't think the price difference is so great. Why not just use Pepscan as the study authors did.

 

In the original study, they did use Genscript, but not for the peptide. I imagine they had a good reason for picking Pepscan:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5556182/

 

...

FOXO4-DRI consists of the following amino acid sequence in D-Isoform: H-ltlrkepaseiaqsileaysqngwanrrsggkrppprrrqrrkkrg-OH. MW: 5358.2 It was manufactured by Pepscan (Lelystad, the Netherlands) at >95% purity and stored at -20°C in 1mg powder aliquots until used to av oid freeze-thawing artefacts. For in vitro experiments FOXO4-DRI was dissolved in PBS to generate a 2mM stock. For in vivo use, FOXO4-DRI was dissolved in PBS to generate a 5mg/ml stock solution, which was kept on ice until injection. Before injection the solution was brought to room temperature.

Total RNA isolation and mRNA sequencing sample preparation

The total RNA isolation and sequencing library preparation from IR-induced senescent and proliferating IMR90 cells was performed as follows: total RNA was isolated using Qiazol Lysis Reagent (Qiagen) and purified with the miRNeasy kit (Qiagen). The integrity (scores >9.0) of the RNA was determined on the Agilent 2100 Bioanalyzer (Agilent). Total RNA enrichment for sequencing poly(A) RNAs was performed with the TruSeq mRNA sample preparation kit (Illumina). 1μg of total RNA for each sample was used for poly(A) RNA selection using magnetic beads coated with poly-dT, followed by thermal fragmentation. The fragmented poly(A) RNA enriched samples were subjected to cDNA synthesis using Illumina TruSeq preparation kit. cDNA was synthesized by reverse transcriptase (Super-Script II) using poly-dT and random hexamer primers. The cDNA fragments were then blunt-ended through an end-repair reaction, followed by dA-tailing. Subsequently, specific double-stranded bar-coded adapters were ligated and library amplification for 15 cycles was performed. The pooled cDNA library consisted of equal concentration bar-coded samples. The pooled library was sequenced in one lane, 36 bp single read on the HiSeq2500 (Illumina). The analysis of the sequencing dataset was performed by Total RNA analysis pipeline (TRAP).

Total RNA analysis pipeline (TRAP)

Reads were aligned to the human hg19 reference genome using the NARWHAL automation software. Exonic reads were summed per transcript. A specific transcript was considered expressed, when a minimum number of reads, i.e. 5 reads per million, could be aligned to a transcript. Pathway analysis was performed with Ingenuity Pathway Analysis Software (IPA; Version build 242990).

Production and purification of recombinant proteins

The constructs corresponding to human FOXO4 (residues 86 – 206) and human p53 (residues 1 – 312), were purchased from Genscript in a pUC cloning vector. The DNA sequence was codon optimized for protein production in bacterial cells and flanked by NcoI and BamHI restriction sites. The coding region was cloned into a modified pETM-11 bacterial expression vector (EMBL Heidelberg) which was derived from a pET-24d(+) vector (Novagen) by insertion of a tobacco etch virus (TEV) protease cleavage site following a N terminal hexa-histidine and protein A tag. The genes were amplified by PCR using T4 primers (New England Biolabs). The resulting PCR products and pETM-11 were double digested with NcoI and BamHI enzymes (New England Biolabs) before ligation. The construct was verified by sequencing.

...

 

Since Genscript has such a good reputation, why not have a long time poster/member here arrange a group buy for those still wishing to try this senolytic?  Some long time poster may be willing to arrange a group buy given, say, a 10% cut for his organizing the buy..  Genscript's difficulty producing it caused them to raise their prices, but at least one recipient did a basic measurement and shared his methodology with me when asked.  Mind you, he only measured the pH...

 

[Imlerith1337]

How much is Gencript asking for say, 100 mg? Do they have a bulk option?

[smithx]

All the serious vendors quote on a job basis, so you'd have to get in touch with them (or someone would) to get a quote.

 

Genscript does have a 10% price reduction special going on right now, for what it's worth.

 

Usually 100mg will cost something like 30% of what 1000mg would cost.

 

How much is Gencript asking for say, 100 mg? Do they have a bulk option?

 

[Imlerith1337]

Haven't found it under 1000 for 100 mg anywhere online except with Breakthrough Biolabs, anyone know where to get it cheaper?

[smithx]

Given that there's zero proof that Breakthrough is selling the actual compound, their prices are not really worth thinking about.

 

The real question to me is: where can we be assured of getting the real compound used in the study, and then what does that cost?

 

A group buy of 2-3 gm from Pepscan would probably get it below $1K per 100mg.

 

 

 

Haven't found it under 1000 for 100 mg anywhere online except with Breakthrough Biolabs, anyone know where to get it cheaper?