848 replies to this topic

[Imlerith1337]

So where's the proof pepscan is selling the actual compound?

[smithx]

The proof is that they made the compound used in the study. So they obviously know how to make that compound!

 

So where's the proof pepscan is selling the actual compound?

 

 

[Imlerith1337]

Are they going to sell it to non-universities?

[Hrub]

I live 3 km from Pepscan company. Shall I go and ask what are the rules they follow?

[Moondancer]

I live 3 km from Pepscan company. Shall I go and ask what are the rules they follow?

 

No you shall not. They clearly state their 'rules' on their website: they only manufacture and sell the peptide for research purposes, not to be administered on humans. How obvious can it be. And this is not different from any company that manufactures and sells peptides.  

The moment you walk in there, are uninformed, and ask "what rules they follow" your chances to still buy anything from them will be close to zero. 

 

Smithx is absolutely right in all he stated. And I'm astonished that even after the failure the previous group buy was, members are still trying to buy this peptide for the lowest price they can find, from whatever company claiming to sell FOXO4-dri. It's not a hotdog you are buying. 

Even De Keizer said that some online companies claimed to sell FOXO4-dri, and that people tried to buy it for themselves. But that it was in fact not the real peptide - and it sounded like he actually had some of these peptides tested. (He also certainly did not recommend for anyone to try FOXO4-dri on themselves on another note). De Keizer does not in any way benefit from claiming these peptides sold on the internet are 'not the real deal'. I think you can take his word on this. 

 

I also do not understand why people would want to spend let's say $700 on something that is very very likely not 'the real deal', vs spending a bit more to ensure they have the real peptide. It seems a returning topic: I've been puzzled about this.

I've tried to set up a group buy from the company that manufactured FOXO4-dri for De Keizer's study several times, but it was such a hassle that I gave up at the time. (Members messaged me stating they were interested, to not respond anymore,  or only after having to message several times, stating they were or were not interested anymore, then disappearing again, etc). 

Edited by Moondancer, 21 December 2018 - 12:53 PM.

[Imlerith1337]

You're taking a risk when you use a research chemical on yourself to begin with. I don't see how that's different from buying from an US company that has a lot to lose if they sell bullshit to you. For shady Chinese vendors I get it, but when you have an US company that has a physical adress you can visit - I don't think they'd risk massive lawsuit for a couple hundred dollars mate. I think the risk of taking research compounds is far greater than the risk of a non-offshore company scamming you for a few bucks, and yet I still want to do it.

[Rocket]

 

 

I also do not understand why people would want to spend let's say $700 on something that is very very likely not 'the real deal', vs spending a bit more to ensure they have the real peptide. It seems a returning topic: I've been puzzled about this.

 

$700 on something with one mouse trial and no studies on primates. Oh, and it will be cut into small baggies on someone's table top at home.

[Moondancer]

$700 on something with one mouse trial and no studies on primates. .

 

 

You are right. But that is a consideration members are making themselves, when they decide they want to try FOXO4-dri. Personally I found the results of the study astonishing enough to want to try this.

And I assume that the people that still decide they want to try FOXO4-dri, want to use the real peptide, not something that turns out not to really be FOXO4-dri.

[Rocket]

You are right. But that is a consideration members are making themselves, when they decide they want to try FOXO4-dri. Personally I found the results of the study astonishing enough to want to try this.

And I assume that the people that still decide they want to try FOXO4-dri, want to use the real peptide, not something that turns out not to really be FOXO4-dri.

 

You're still buying something someone is cutting into bagies on their kitchen table.... Aka Meatsauce and reusing sandwhich baggies. 

 

I've had very good results with Dasatanib, bought from a lab, but only because I actually took the proper dosages. In fact I have a new order coming.

[Imlerith1337]

Does anyone have better alternatives to breakthrough biolabs, with companies in the US that have a physical adress and aren't offshore scams? If we can get something better I'd want to know. Finally, I don't think most companies are Meatsauce's mayonaise

[smithx]

To answer some of the points that have been made recently:

 

• Yes Pepscan and Genscript will sell to organizations other than universities. ​I've successfully bought from these companies in the past (Genscript and other). I have a corporation, a tax ID, etc. As for the type of business? If I say that it's a research lab, who is to say otherwise? 

 

• When ordering from these companies, you get the product aliquoted, which means they weigh it, put it into vials, seal the vials and label them individually including their company name, the compound, the lot number, the date, etc. So no, it's not cut into baggies in a kitchen if done properly.

 

• Genscript is not going to knowingly send the wrong compound, and they are probably not going to make a mistake in producing exactly what you specify. But if you happen to get the specification wrong in any way, you won't get the compound you were looking for. Pepscan made the compound used in the study and knows exactly how to make it. When I got a quote from them, I specified that it was for the same compound in the study and linked them to it (via DOI and citation). So there's near zero chance they would not supply the correct compound given those parameters.

 

[Imlerith1337]

What was the pricing at Genscript?

[smithx]

In 2017 Genscript quoted me 1 Gram at 98% purity for $10040 discounted to  $7030 including TFA removal, aliquoted to 5mg vials.

 

I don't know what pricing would be currently.

 

 

[Imlerith1337]

I find it pretty strange that people are paranoid about legitimate US-based companies scamming them; As someone who's worked in the sector, defrauding people by blatantly not providing what is offered would be insane. The legal fallout (including criminal charges) wouldn't be worth it. With offshore vendors this is a liability, because suing someone in china is pretty much unworkable - but an US company criminally scamming customers would be rolled up with ease.

[smithx]

Please see my previous post:

 

"Genscript is not going to knowingly send the wrong compound, and they are probably not going to make a mistake in producing exactly what you specify. But if you happen to get the specification wrong in any way, you won't get the compound you were looking for. Pepscan made the compound used in the study and knows exactly how to make it. When I got a quote from them, I specified that it was for the same compound in the study and linked them to it (via DOI and citation). So there's near zero chance they would not supply the correct compound given those parameters."

 

Here is what happened when I got the quote from Genscript:

 

This peptide should be D Aa, and we have now checked the paper. Apologies but the sequence you submitted was unclear.
The correct code for D-Aa of the this peptide in our system should be:

{d-Leu}{d-Thr}{d-Leu}{d-Arg}{d-Lys}{d-Glu}{d-Pro}{d-Ala}{d-Ser}{d-Glu}{d-Ile}{d-Ala}{d-Gln}{d-Ser}{d-Ile}{d-Leu}{d-Glu}{d-Ala}{d-Tyr}{d-Ser}{d-Gln}{d-Asn}{d-Gly}{d-Trp}{d-Ala}{d-Asn}{d-Arg}{d-Arg}{d-Ser}{d-Gly}{d-Gly}{d-Lys}{d-Arg}{d-Pro}{d-Pro}{d-Pro}{d-Arg}{d-Arg}{d-Arg}{d-Gln}{d-Arg}{d-Arg}{d-Lys}{d-Lys}{d-Arg}{d-Gly}

The price is a litter higher than L-Aa.
Attached please find the updated quote with correct sequence/price.

 

There are all kinds of mistakes which can be made, and we are talking about injecting a peptide. 

 

 

I find it pretty strange that people are paranoid about legitimate US-based companies scamming them; As someone who's worked in the sector, defrauding people by blatantly not providing what is offered would be insane. The legal fallout (including criminal charges) wouldn't be worth it. With offshore vendors this is a liability, because suing someone in china is pretty much unworkable - but an US company criminally scamming customers would be rolled up with ease.

 

Edited by smithx, 22 December 2018 - 12:06 AM.

[Cerebroo]

Hello,

 

i have 25 mg of Foxo4 to sell i got from meatsauce from his first group buy. This is sitting in my freezer: https://screencast.com/t/rmqsESwmojZ since april 2018

If someone is interested, it is 190 Dollars plus shipping from Spain. Please PM me. 

[Rocket]

Hello,

 

i have 25 mg of Foxo4 to sell i got from meatsauce from his first group buy. This is sitting in my freezer: https://screencast.com/t/rmqsESwmojZ since april 2018

If someone is interested, it is 190 Dollars plus shipping from Spain. Please PM me. 

 

Should be thrown away. It was probably shipped in something he used to store food with. Even if not then if it was stored in a typical refrigerator with freeze and thaw cycles, then it's junk by now.

Edited by Rocket, 11 February 2019 - 04:41 PM.

[Cerebroo]

Any proof for that? It has 2 cycles. Any danger if i still decide to inject it? I guess nobody can answer that...

[Quattro64]

My understanding, after reading this very informative thread, and other online info is that senolytics are really not an everyday supplement. We should, I think, only take these to get rid of senescent cells after we've built up quite a lot of them. So I'm thinking the minimum age we should be is somewhere in our 60s? Especially true for those on this forum that have likely been doing everything they can to keep their cells young. For instance, I'm in my mid 50s look 40s, been taking Glisodin every day since 38. Been taking NMN, pterostilbene, PQQ etc. the last few years. Also, for about 4 years been taking the parts (ala-glu-asp-gly) of Epitalon, on an empty stomach should allow the body to stitch together the peptide. So I believe I don't have many(any?) senescent cells to kill off yet. I think that CRISPR tech is a ways off yet but we only need a bridge to get us from where we are to that point. Dr. Church is setting up a business to revitalize pets, then on to humans. I think Senolytics could be a part of that once we get to a certain age. Anyone have a decent Senolytic stack they use that we could try that doesn't involve injecting something we can't be sure of? I wonder, can Foxo4-Dri be taken sublingually?  

 

thanks,

 

Q

[smithx]

Just a couple of comments on your posting:

 

• Since senescent cells can secrete inflammatory compounds like cytokines, it's probably a good idea to get rid of them earlier rather than later
• small polypeptides such as tri and quatra peptides like epitalon are usually best taken sublingually so that they go directly into the bloodstream.
• Large proteins such as Superoxide dismutase are very unlikely to get into the bloodstream at all except via injection. Based on that fact, Glisodin seems very unlikely to be able to actually do anything.
• foxo4-dri is very likely too large to be absorbed sublingually

[Daniel Cooper]

My understanding is that the gliadin in Glisodin temporarily makes the gut permeable to SOD.

 

Now, whether temporarily increasing gut permeability to fairly large molecules is a good idea is another question, but I think there is some decent evidence that it does actually get SOD into the bloodstream.

 

 

 

[Quattro64]

Thanks, I think you do need to read up on some of the Glisodin studies, It does seem to work in increasing serum SOD 1. Much more than taking just SOD on its own. I have been taking it for years and I could tell almost immediately it made a difference though I did have to up my dose from 100mg to closer to 500mg. Encasing SOD in gliaden(wheat) is the key to getting it through the digestive system intact. It is especially useful for those that do a lot of physical work or spend anytime in the sun. If I am planning on doing anything like that during the day I will take dbl my now normal 250mg dose. Taking Glisodin also seemed to upregulate Catalase in the studies. Getting rid of intra/extra cellular ROS via SOD/CAT does help with your first point concerning inflammation.

 

I am fine taking Epitalon sublingually, the only issue is finding it economically. Which is why I take the constituent parts, on an empty stomach.

 

Ok, Looks like with Foxo4-Dri I will probably have to get used to needles then. :-( I was worried it was too large a peptide to use sublingual. I think this only has to be done once or twice to get rid of any senescent cells prior to CRISPR. Was hoping to find advice from others about any senolytic stack they use.

 

For anyone who doesn't believe in glisodin yet here is a test you can do. Go out sometime this spring and get a mild sunburn, say 45mins ~ 12:00 noon. No sun screen etc. Rub on some solarcane, lol then let it heal.  Now that you're reminded what a sunburn is like go out a few weeks later, take 500mg glisodin and try to get that same sunburn at the same time of day. I think you'll learn something about glisodin.

Edited by Quattro64, 18 March 2019 - 02:01 PM.

[MikeSh]

Is anyone using/has anyone used dasatinib and quercetin? I'm trying to determine the proper protocol/dosage.

[Engadin]

Just in case you are not aware of this, the best read on this subject so far: 

How to Plan and Carry Out a Simple Self-Experiment, a Single Person Trial of Senolytic Peptide FOXO4-DRI

[smithx]

The problem with this is that he sources the peptide from some random Chinese supplier via Alibaba.

 

Until I see reports from someone who got their peptide from the supplier of the peptide used in the study (Pepscan) I'm not taking them seriously. This is not a typical peptide and it's more likely to be made incorrectly and therefore useless, as compared to typical (non-retro inverso) peptides.

 

Also, the estimated costs in that article are about the same as what it would cost to get the peptide from Pepscan (assuming 1G purchased, divided into 200mg purchases), and it wouldn't be necessary (at least I wouldn't bother) trying to validate it, since whatever they produced before was what was used in the study research. So it would actually be less expensive.

 

 

 

Just in case you are not aware of this, the best read on this subject so far: 

How to Plan and Carry Out a Simple Self-Experiment, a Single Person Trial of Senolytic Peptide FOXO4-DRI

 

 

Edited by smithx, 23 May 2019 - 12:26 AM.

[mikey]

The problem with this is that he sources the peptide from some random Chinese supplier via Alibaba.

 

Until I see reports from someone who got their peptide from the supplier of the peptide used in the study (Pepscan) I'm not taking them seriously. This is not a typical peptide and it's more likely to be made incorrectly and therefore useless, as compared to typical (non-retro inverso) peptides.

 

Also, the estimated costs in that article are about the same as what it would cost to get the peptide from Pepscan (assuming 1G purchased, divided into 200mg purchases), and it wouldn't be necessary (at least I wouldn't bother) trying to validate it, since whatever they produced before was what was used in the study research. So it would actually be less expensive.

 

For consideration, I remember one of the professional chemists saying that he worked in China for some years and based on his years there he would NEVER buy any chemical from China, as the companies (the culture) are bottom-line in general dishonest and you could end up getting c-r-a-p.

[The Capybara]

You're right that you can get ripped off in China.

To say that the Chinese culture is dishonest, that you should NEVER buy a chemical there, is outright racist, and truly ignorant.

You can get ripped off here, or in Europe, but you do have better odds of getting ripped off in China for now.

Having said that, many labs in China are now ISO certified and some are GMP certified.

These are international standards and it's often a nightmare to pass the certification process.

You'd be foolish to write off China as a supplier, especially since they synthesize most of our generic drugs here in the US.

Even India, the largest generic drug exporter to the US, now generally farms out the actual synthesis to China.

I've purchased many compounds from China for over a decade now, and very few suppliers didn't test high purity in independent third party testing.

Peptides are no exception, though they typically require different equipment to test purity, MALDI TOF etc

[drtom]

This may be a silly question (especially as I haven't waded through the previous 27 pages of this thread) but I see that Bucklabs sells FOXO4 DRI peptide.

Various prices for various quantities.

Has anyone considered them as a supplier?

Has anyone who has tried the peptide (from any supplier) noticed any effects?

 

TIA

[drtom]

Hmmm. That should read "BuckYlabs" in my last post!

 

[VP.]

The comments section in this blog has a wealth of information about FOXO4-dri, how to get it, take it and results from users. Good luck, I'm sticking with Dasatinib and Quercetin which is cheaper, no injections and has a completed human trial and more under way. 

http://foxo4dri.com/