848 replies to this topic

[Moondancer]

We still need 2 (max. 3) persons to come up with a group buy of 1 gram of FOXO4-dri.

 

Isn't there any other member interested in buying FOXO4-dri from the manufacturer for De Keizer's study? One of the most promising senolytic agents there currently is, imo.

 

All members that wanted to partake in the group buy, Beetlejuice, Longevitarian, Mikey, Smithx (potentially), Hrub, what is your opinion about purity level? The prices mentioned were for a purity level of 90-98%. Do we prefer a higher purity level - which would raise the price further?

I believe we were looking at a price of $1200-$1500 approximately currently for 100mg FOXO4-dri with a purity level of 90-98%, if we were to order 1 gram in total (in 5mg or 10mg aliquots).

[Moondancer]

On another note: Ryan, what is happening for you? It would be correct to give updates a bit more often from now on, so that those involved in that group buy do know how it is evolving - if it is evolving.

[gregv]

I would be interested in this group buy but concerned about stability (temperature etc) during shipment to Australia.

[Moondancer]

I would be interested in this group buy but concerned about stability (temperature etc) during shipment to Australia.

 

Admittedly I have missed the discussion about temperatures during shipment and how it influences the stability of the peptide. Have any conclusions been drawn with that regard, and if so, what conclusions? Can anyone point me to the page where this has been discussed - if any?

 

If you'd want to partake, Gregv, how many mg would you want to order? 

[gregv]

100mg seems to be the consensus amount required. I am fine with paying the co-ordinator extra for his effort and transparency and would also prefer the higher purity. In for a penny in for a pound:)

[Moondancer]

I agree Gregv, I also prefer to pay more and get a higher purity. 

 

So concerning a potential group buy from the company that manufactured FOXO4-dri for De Keizer's study, currently we have:

1) Moondancer 100mg (potentially 200mg, prefers higher purity level, willing to pay group buy coordinator for effort + transparacy)

2) Beetlejuice 100mg

4) Longevitarian 200mg

5) Smithx 100mg (unsure, prefers higher purity level)

6) Hrub 

7) Mikey 100mg

8) Gregv 100mg (unsure, prefers higher purity level, willing to pay group buy coordinator for effort + transparancy)

 

• Beetlejuice, Longevitarian, Hrub, Mikey, can you still let us know if you prefer to get a higher purity level than 90-98% too (which should cost more)? 
• Beetlejuice, Longevitarian, Smithx, Hrub, Mikey, would you all be willing to pay the group buy coordinator a reasonable compensation for his effort (and to ensure transparancy and a thoroughly coordinated group buy), or not?

 

Would everyone that is interested in this group buy be willing to send me their email address that they can be reached on/check regularly? Of course I will treat it confidentially and it should only be used sporadically for the most important questions related to the group buy, but I see now already that some persons come in here, post that they want to partake in the group buy and then disappear again and don't seem to read here anymore. (Hrub for example and I keep asking the same questions about purity level without response). If those members that want to partake in the group buy can be reached more easily, at least by the time we start the group buy we can ensure that it moves forward faster and that we don't have to wait weeks before everyone in this group buy hopefully responds to the messages here in this thread. I can with everyone's permission then send the list with the email addresses to the person that we decide will ultimately coordinate the group buy.

 

Currently we seem to have reached a total of 800-900mg if all that had interest in the group buy would truly participate. We still need at least one or two more additional members to partake in this group buy so that we could order 1 gram and get a better price. Anyone else interested in this fantastic senolytic agent (to administer at your own risk)   .

 

I would also love to see a discussion enroll about the stability of the peptide and how it could be influenced by temperature (changes) during shipping,as Gregv brought up. Thanks all!

Edited by Moondancer, 30 August 2018 - 07:17 AM.

[gregv]

How do I send you email address privately?

[Moondancer]

How do I send you email address privately?

 

You can send me a private message using the message function at the top of this page (click on the envelope, at the top of this page). Thanks!

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Here are a couple of links that address "in general" type concerns for peptides:

 

Genscript

 

Sigma Aldrich

[Moondancer]

I already received some PM's with email addresses of the group member that wants to participate in the group buy; great, thanks!

As said: of course I will treat it confidentially and it should only be used sporadically for the most important questions related to the group buy. I can with everyone's permission send the list with the email addresses to the person that we decide will ultimately coordinate the group buy.

 

If everyone that wanted to partake in the group buy from FOXO4-dri from the company that manufactured it for De Keizer's study, could include the following in the PM they send me, that would be great:

1. An email address that you can be reached on/check regularly.
2. Your (approximate) location.
3. The amount in mg you'd want to order (and in what aliquots)
4. If you would want to pay a reasonable compensation to the group buy coordinator.
5. If you prefer a purity level of 90-98% or a purity level >98%. 
6. What the maximum price is you'd want to pay for the peptide - also at a higher purity level. 
7. Any other suggestions/questions/reservations.

 

Edited by Moondancer, 30 August 2018 - 08:07 AM.

[smithx]

https://www.smart-bi...ndling-storage/

 

Lyophilized peptides are stable at room temperature and can be kept in their initial packaging for several days to weeks. Otherwise, peptides can be stored at 4 °C or colder, according to your preference and to experimental requirements. Peptides should be protected from intense light.

 

 

[mikey]

 

I already received some PM's with email addresses of the group member that wants to participate in the group buy; great, thanks!

As said: of course I will treat it confidentially and it should only be used sporadically for the most important questions related to the group buy. I can with everyone's permission send the list with the email addresses to the person that we decide will ultimately coordinate the group buy.

 

If everyone that wanted to partake in the group buy from FOXO4-dri from the company that manufactured it for De Keizer's study, could include the following in the PM they send me, that would be great:

1. An email address that you can be reached on/check regularly.
2. Your (approximate) location.
3. The amount in mg you'd want to order (and in what aliquots)
4. If you would want to pay a reasonable compensation to the group buy coordinator.
5. If you prefer a purity level of 90-98% or a purity level >98%. 
6. What the maximum price is you'd want to pay for the peptide - also at a higher purity level. 
7. Any other suggestions/questions/reservations.

 

 

De Keizer's study used FOXO4-DRI that was >95% pure, so that is what I want. Simply put I want exactly the same material that was used in his study, including that it is TFA-free. I do want 100 mg. If it is dissolved in PBS will it keep for a week?

If so, then, based on what TaiChiKid experienced I would use 1/3 vial every other day, so that it could be one 100 mg vial that I receive if PBS will allow it to be kept preserved for one week. 

Otherwise, I would ask for 33 mg aliquoted vials, so that I could dissolve a fresh vial every other day three times. It will cost the group buy less if the vials are aliquoted at greater milligram amounts. Also, if a human my size can use 33 mg per dose, then aliquoting it in 10 mg vials would be more tedious, as I would want to take 33 mg in each IM injection.

So I am committed, but there remains a question for me as to whether using PBS as the solvent will allow the FOXO to preserve for one week.

I will PM my email address and other specifics to you, Moondancer.

[Moondancer]

 5mg or 10mg aliquots cost the same as 30mg aliquots (at least looking at the invoice I received), and I believe Smithx made some valid points with regard to using a smaller amount first because of the potential effect of cell death on the kidneys, among others. 

 

I'd certainly not want 100mg aliquots! I'd absolutely want to reconstitute each batch I would inject fresh - and personally I'm not even sure if I would inject 30mg every other day or with more days in between each subsequent dose of 30mg.

 

Thanks Mikey for the PM with your info.

[meatsauce]

Meatsauce owes me both foxo one other product (forget right no).  I have written off the money sadly as he has not responded to my latest inquiry.  Sad.

 

I'm sorry I thought I got all the epitalon orders out I missed some info on that one from my old computer. I will send you extra.

[meatsauce]

 

I already received some PM's with email addresses of the group member that wants to participate in the group buy; great, thanks!

As said: of course I will treat it confidentially and it should only be used sporadically for the most important questions related to the group buy. I can with everyone's permission send the list with the email addresses to the person that we decide will ultimately coordinate the group buy.

 

If everyone that wanted to partake in the group buy from FOXO4-dri from the company that manufactured it for De Keizer's study, could include the following in the PM they send me, that would be great:

1. An email address that you can be reached on/check regularly.
2. Your (approximate) location.
3. The amount in mg you'd want to order (and in what aliquots)
4. If you would want to pay a reasonable compensation to the group buy coordinator.
5. If you prefer a purity level of 90-98% or a purity level >98%. 
6. What the maximum price is you'd want to pay for the peptide - also at a higher purity level. 
7. Any other suggestions/questions/reservations.

 

I've contacted that company and they quoted me a very high price and blew me off after that. I would recommend going with a US supplier. I know one who is very willing to make it with no problems or questions. There is no need to go with the original supplier. Its arbitrary.  They could have picked any peptide supplier to make it the first time.

 

[meatsauce]

I've sorted everyone out overseas for the foxo4 order can everyone in the US please confirm if you will be home in order to receive the shipment?

[meatsauce]

I'm sure there will be another group buy once the storm has settled on previous transactions. 

 

However, this one we should probably take our time and do everything exactly right.  As I stated before, I don't think meatsauce necessarily had any bad intent here.  In fact, it makes sense that the first person to jump in and go on something like this would be a risk-taker type.  Great for getting things moving, maybe not so great for reliability.

 

For the next buy, we should establish some ground rules, starting with:

1.  We want to know exactly where product is being purchased, and if at all possible pay for it directly to the company itself, or in a way there is no risk of losing money.

2.  Certs, docs, pics, whatever trust building needs to be done to ensure we are getting a quality product that is what it is supposed to be.

 

Sounds simple, but not so simple when you are dealing with a bunch of strangers on the internet.  And also, not simple because whoever does organize these things takes on a lot of extra work and risk themselves.

 

Yea Its a ton of work and stress especially when things don't go as expected and you have people accusing you of scamming them online and messaging you on every platform they can find.

 

It was taking so long I got really stressed and ignored everything for a while so for that I apologize.

 

If I were to do it all over I would have just went with the US supplier I know in the first place its just the cost would have been much more and I didn't think people would want to do it at a higher price.

[Moondancer]

f I were to do it all over I would have just went with the US supplier I know iIn the first place its just the cost would have been much more and I didn't think people would want to do it at a higher price.

 

So why do you still don't want to send all those members involved in the group buy an invoice of the company that you paid and why don't you want to state from what company you bought the peptide? 

And why did you change companies without asking/mentioning it to anyone that paid nearly a 1000$ for this product: that is not nothing!

Edited by Moondancer, 31 August 2018 - 12:27 AM.

[Moondancer]

I've contacted that company and they quoted me a very high price and blew me off after that. I would recommend going with a US supplier. I know one who is very willing to make it with no problems or questions. There is no need to go with the original supplier. Its arbitrary.  They could have picked any peptide supplier to make it the first time.

 

They have been highly responsive, obviously very well-informed and willing to sell to different members here that have contacted them, in fact.

[Moondancer]

Update 8/31: concerning a potential group buy from the company that manufactured FOXO4-dri for De Keizer's study, currently we have:

1) Moondancer 100mg (potentially 200mg, prefers higher purity level, willing to pay group buy coordinator for effort + transparacy)

2) Beetlejuice 100mg

4) Longevitarian 200mg

5) Smithx 100mg (unsure, prefers higher purity level)

6) Hrub 

7) Mikey 100mg

8) Gregv 100mg (unsure, prefers higher purity level, willing to pay group buy coordinator for effort + transparancy)

9) Anonymous member 200mg 

 

So it seems if everyone that has shown interest in this group buy is still willing to participate we are ready to move forward, that would be great!

 

If everyone that wanted to partake in the group buy from FOXO4-dri from the company that manufactured it for De Keizer's study, could send me a PM and include the following information in the PM they send me, that would be great.

I already received a PM from Mikey, Gregv, and Beetlejuice (thanks for that!). Gregv and beetlejuice, I have meanwhile added a few extra questions below, could you please still answer those?

Longevitarian, Smithx and Hrub, if you are still interested in the group buy, would you please still want to send me a PM with an answer to the questions below? Thanks!

 

As said: of course I will treat any information received per PM with confidentiality and the email address should only be used sporadically for the most important questions related to the group buy. I can with everyone's permission send the list with the email addresses + answers to the questions, to the person that we decide will ultimately coordinate the group buy.

 

1) An email address that you can be reached on/check regularly.

2) Your (approximate) location.

3) The amount in mg you'd want to order (and in what aliquots)

4) If you would want to pay a reasonable compensation to the group buy coordinator.

5) If you prefer a purity level of 90-98% or a purity level >98%. 

6) What the maximum price is you'd want to pay for the peptide - also at a higher purity level. 

7) Any other suggestions/questions/reservations.

 

 

Edited by Moondancer, 31 August 2018 - 12:00 AM.

[mikey]

 5mg or 10mg aliquots cost the same as 30mg aliquots (at least looking at the invoice I received), and I believe Smithx made some valid points with regard to using a smaller amount first because of the potential effect of cell death on the kidneys, among others. 

 

I'd certainly not want 100mg aliquots! I'd absolutely want to reconstitute each batch I would inject fresh - and personally I'm not even sure if I would inject 30mg every other day or with more days in between each subsequent dose of 30mg.

 

Thanks Mikey for the PM with your info.

 

You're welcome and thank you, Moondancer.

 

I think that a more prudent dosing schedule, as Smithx said, is a better idea. 

 

Whatever is most widely accepted by those that want to do a group buy, 5 or 10 mg, I will go with.

[Benko]

Is it too late to get in on the buy?

[Moondancer]

Is it too late to get in on the buy?

 

 

If you mean the group buy from the company that manufactured FOXO4-dri for De Keizer's study: no it isn't too late. 

But please send me a PM as soon as possible with an answer to the 7 questions I posted in a previous post. Thanks! 

[Hrub]

Sorry I did not reply for some time.

Yes I am interested for 100 mg.

BUT, I have some practical questions.

I am living 2-3 miles from Pepscan b.v. but I do not know anyone from that company.

If we buy it, who is the legal buyer? I understood Pepscan only delivers to laboratoria.

And is there some lab that can buy it for us, and how can I get my portion. I do not like the idea

that it goes from the Netherlands to the US and then my portion comes back to the Netherlands.

I am willing to help, but in the Netherlands the rules are followed normally .

It would be nice if I can go to Pepscan with some legal letter and get the stuff at the reception.

If that could work I can send you all your parts same day by DHL or so and keep my part.

But how can we organize it that way?

 

Hrub

[Moondancer]

Sorry I did not reply for some time.

Yes I am interested for 100 mg.

BUT, I have some practical questions.

I am living 2-3 miles from Pepscan b.v. but I do not know anyone from that company.

If we buy it, who is the legal buyer? I understood Pepscan only delivers to laboratoria.

And is there some lab that can buy it for us, and how can I get my portion. I do not like the idea

that it goes from the Netherlands to the US and then my portion comes back to the Netherlands.

I am willing to help, but in the Netherlands the rules are followed normally .

It would be nice if I can go to Pepscan with some legal letter and get the stuff at the reception.

If that could work I can send you all your parts same day by DHL or so and keep my part.

But how can we organize it that way?

 

Hrub

 

The problem is that if someone from within The Netherlands buys it, he/she has to pay 21% VAT. 

I have the same issue as you have when it come sto the peptide flying from Europe to the US and back. This means it can be seized by customs on two different occasions, and in general it seems very unpractical. I have the same problem.

But we need to order via a company - and a company that is not charged 21% VAT. So ideally a US company.

 

I was thinking about a different construction in addition to that, to avoid sending the peptide up and down from Europe to the US. I will send you a PM.

[Moondancer]

Hrub, please answer those 7 questions on another note so that at least we have an email address that you can be reached on - as I asked you the past 10 days if you still wanted to participate in the group buy, and personally I don't want to keep running behind someone that is not really responsive. I have PM'ed you the 7 questions too. Thanks.

[meatsauce]

They have been highly responsive, obviously very well-informed and willing to sell to different members here that have contacted them, in fact.

 

Cool. Well if you are in the US it would still be easier to go with one here. The product can potentially be sitting in customs for weeks.

 

I would also say 95% purity is sufficient. The price increases a lot when you go higher and with peptides I don't think the extra couple percentage of purity has an effect. Though other substances with biological impurities can cause more of a reactive immune response.

Edited by meatsauce, 31 August 2018 - 10:09 PM.

[Moondancer]

Thanks MS. I live in Europe - and so does Hrub. The group buy coordinator on the other hand will be ordering from the US (that way we can avoid the 21%VAT the company charges). Which in theory would mean the peptide is shipped from Europe to the US and back. (And for Hrub it would mean the peptide would be shipped away from a location 2-3 miles from his home, to the US, and back). That's a bit absurd of course. I'm searching for a way to work around this. 

Hrub, I actually meant you could send me your info per Personal Message (click on the envelope at the top of this page). I already send you a Personal Message there with the 7 questions. You may not want your personal info in this group thread for privacy reasons, such as your last name + email. Perhaps you can ask a moderator to remove it.

[Moondancer]

Guys we have reached 800-900mg for this group buy currently from the manufacturer for De Keizer's study.

 

Currently the members partaking in it are:

1) BeetleJuice 100mg

2) GregV - 100mg

3) Mikey - 100mg

4) Moondancer - 100 or 200mg, depending on price

5) anonymous member - 300mg  

6) Hrub - 100mg

 

• Longevitarian, you mentioned you wanted to order 200mg a week back or so, but have not responded anymore thereafter. I have sent you a PM, could you please let me know if you'd still want to partake. If I don't get a response in a few days I will assume you don't want to partake and remove you from the list.
• Benko, please send me a response to the PM I sent you if you still want to partake.
• Smithx would you still want to partake?

If I have forgotten about anyone, please let me know. 

 

BeetleJuice, Gregv, I know you sent me a PM already. However, I'm sorry to ask, but could you plesae send me an additional PM with the format of the 7 questions I used (as posted in this thread at this page). That would make it a bit easier for me to process all information. Thanks!

 

Concerning the group buy coordinator: do all members agree letting Mikey coordinate the group buy? If so, please all confirm. Because I want the group buy coordinator to be chosen with unanimity. To avoid that if something goes wrong I can be blamed since members will say they have never been able to choose who would coordinate the group buy.

My personal preference is letting Mikey arrange the group buy. But I'd want all members participating to state who they want to coordinate the group buy too. You can post that here or send me a PM. 

 

Anyone else interested in getting this senolytic agent FOXO4-dri from the company that manufactured it for De Keizer's study? (To be administered at your own risk).

Please let me know, and if so, send me a PM. Thanks!

 

 

Edited by Moondancer, 01 September 2018 - 05:10 AM.

[Moondancer]

Thus far we have:

- 2 group members living in The Netherlands

- 2 group members living in Australia

- 2 group members living in the US

 

As said, to avoid 21%VAT to be charged by the company that manufacters the peptide, we would have to order the FOXO4-dri via a non-European company - such as a company located in the US.

 

However: there have been some reservations expressed by group members (I am one of them, in fact), about having a peptide shipped from The Netherlands to the US and back to The Netherlands again. Hrub has expressed concern about this too.

The Australian members have expressed some concern about shipping temperatures and how that could affect the peptide too.

 

How can we work around these issues? 

• What about ordering the peptide via a US company and having 200-300mg shipped straight from the manufacturer to a (business) address in the Netherlands for "testing purposes"? So that the 200-300mg bought by Dutch members is not traveling from The Netherlands to the US and back again? Credibility could be an issue, I assume.