68 replies to this topic

[Nate-2004]

I don't know why I'm just now learning this but apparently Olive Oil's polyunsaturated fat content has a terrible omega 6 to 3 ratio.

 

This has lead to a considerable amount of criticism from various health sources. One guy says that this is only because much of the olive oil out there is fake. That's true.

 

Nothing is really then mentioned about the total amount of polyunsaturated fat and even less often, do they mention the polyphenols, which is my reason for consuming it.

 

What to do?

[mccoy]

Nate, a few relevant points which occur to me:

 

1. When we are speaking of olive oil it should be always specified which one, for exemple EVOO, that is extra-virgin olive oil. That is the healthy item, whereas simple olive oil has been processed and may lack most of the favourable phytonutrients. Oftentimes the criticism and even the articles refer to generic olive oil. Even EVOO has a great variability in terms of phytonutrients (total polyphenols+tocopherols), so it should be specified the brand, the origin, the year of harvest. Generic references are to be dismissed as imprecise.
2. PUFAs are not the relevant macronutrient in EVOO, since MUFAs govern. MUFA= 73% in weight, SAFAs= 14%, PUFAs = 11% according to cronometer.
3. The worth of EVOO is not in the macronutrients (fats) but in its taste which improves the palability of vegetables and other healthy food, and in its content of polyphenols (phenolic compounds), whith the known health benefits. Which is the reason you and many other people are consuming it. A reason which absurdely is often  ignored by many authoritative speakers like Dr. Greger, Dr. Fuhrman, Dr Barnard, Dr McDougall...

What to do? I would make an effort to source the best EVOO available, even if it is expensive, if it has at least 300 ppm polyphenols one tablespoon of it has a protective effect according to the Europeana health commission.

 

There is one EVOO in Italy, De Carlo Torre di Mossa, which has 800+ ppm polyphenols and >1000 ppm polyphenols+tocopherols. One third of a tablespoon a day would be enough. Watch out though, the phenols degrade with time, so it's best to purchase every 6 months from the northern and the southern hemisphere producers.

 

Some very good discussions on EVOO and EVOO sourcing can be found in the CR society forum:

 

https://www.crsociet...olive +sourcing

 

 

[Nate-2004]

There is one EVOO in Italy, De Carlo Torre di Mossa, which has 800+ ppm polyphenols and >1000 ppm polyphenols+tocopherols. One third of a tablespoon a day would be enough. Watch out though, the phenols degrade with time, so it's best to purchase every 6 months from the northern and the southern hemisphere producers.

 

Great points and this is the exact same brand of EVOO I have been using and ordering regularly! The 800+ one specifically is the one I've been consuming. No more than a tbsp a day, I do smoothies not salads so I don't need it for taste.

[Turnbuckle]

In the Baati C60 paper, those rats reieving only EVOO lived much longer, though not as long as the C60 rats--

 

Our results show that while olive oil treatment can lead to an increase of 18% of lifespan of treated rats, C60-olive oil can increase it up to 90%, as compared to controls.

 

 

If C60 weren't part of the story, everyone would have gotten excited by olive oil, as 18% is a hefty gain. Much of that increase is likely due to polyphenols, which degrade fairly rapidly. Most store oil is years old by the time it sells, and thus worthless.

[sthira]

Prices are higher for the fresh harvest stuff sourced and sold from people who give a damn. I look at consuming the healthiest EVOO as an investment in health. I like Amphora Nueva's folks, they're friendly, knowledgeable, they seem honest, you can buy in bulk, bottle it yourself, and the Southern Hemisphere oils should be for sale pretty soon. They list chemistry and harvest dates, which is reassuring. How accurate are these numbers? Shrug...

What McCoy has written above about eating oil for taste is interesting, and I guess I'd never really thought about it til now. I definitely enjoy more vegetables with heavy doses of high quality olive oil. The oil seems to bring out more flavors and textures, which causes me to eat more broccoli and cauliflower and greens and tomatoes and good stuff. Steaming vegetables, then adding oil and spices is probably the best and only "anti-aging" gig we've got going. Calorie restriction, fasting, and a WFPB diet, what else do we have? While we continue awaiting slow, underfunded age reversal studies, eat more veggies with freshly harvested oils.

[Nate-2004]

Calorie restriction, fasting, and a WFPB diet, what else do we have? While we continue awaiting slow, underfunded age reversal studies, eat more veggies with freshly harvested oils.

 

I'll take WFPB diet to mean waffles and peanut butter diet, because that sounds really good.

[sthira]

Calorie restriction, fasting, and a WFPB diet, what else do we have? While we continue awaiting slow, underfunded age reversal studies, eat more veggies with freshly harvested oils.

I'll take WFPB diet to mean waffles and peanut butter diet, because that sounds really good.

No, no, no: whipped cream, fudge, and peanut butter indeed extends longevity (in c. elegans)

[joelcairo]

Olive oil isn't really a significant source of omega-3 fatty acids. It is comprised mainly of omega-9. I don't see the 3:6 ratio as especially significant in this case. IMO both the omega-9 fat and the polyphenols are generally beneficial.

Edited by joelcairo, 29 June 2017 - 05:58 AM.

[mccoy]

 

There is one EVOO in Italy, De Carlo Torre di Mossa, which has 800+ ppm polyphenols and >1000 ppm polyphenols+tocopherols. One third of a tablespoon a day would be enough. Watch out though, the phenols degrade with time, so it's best to purchase every 6 months from the northern and the southern hemisphere producers.

 

Great points and this is the exact same brand of EVOO I have been using and ordering regularly! The 800+ one specifically is the one I've been consuming. No more than a tbsp a day, I do smoothies not salads so I don't need it for taste.

 

 

Nate, it's interesting that this oil is so popular with the American health enthusiasts. I don't live far from the producer but I never heard about it before joining these health & longevity fora. 

 

Here in Italy it costs about one half the price in America, but I'm going to buy it next November, on the new crop, since I still have a large stock of locally produced EVOO (which  surely is not so polyphenols-rich).

 

Shtira, in Italy EVOO has been traditionally used as a dressing with vegetables, although sometimes they overdo it and tomatoes are literally drowning in EVOO, which is then partly eaten by absorbing it by sponge-like bread slices. The surplus gets wasted.

Of course, lots of EVOO as a dressing may not be favourable for Caloric Restriction, so those guys practicing CR can just have half a tbspoon of a phenols-rich EVOO sans the caloric burden.

[aconita]

Coratina is one of the best olive cultivar (northern Bari area), not often sold pure because the very high poliphenol content leads to an hot and sour aftertaste in the throat which is disliked by most.

 

A superb oil for connoisseurs!   

[normalizing]

not against or pro olive oil, but when i was younger i would always read its good for you constantly, and ill be drinking and getting as much olive oil as possible, honestly, it made me super sick and i cant stand it for the most part now. probably overdid it, who knows, i wouldnt possible drink more than 100grams of that crap, but i guess even that was too much back then, its just strong and vile and hard like good wine which is also supposedly good for you. so who the fuck knows, im confused at this point.

[mccoy]

Well, drinking 100 grams per day may really be too much. EVOO's acidity and other biochemical characteristics may suggest not to consume more than a reasonable threshold (I'm perfectly all right with 30 grams per day on average). Also, EVOO's secoiridoids (like oleuropeine) are believed to exhibit xenohormetic effects, so too much of them for a long time may actually turn out be detrimental (the immune system is overstimulated, my personal anecdotal observations).

 

This is an example of a well-conducted study. They specify the EVOO type, its denomination, its chemical properties, the analytical method used, the manufacturing process, finally the protective effects of the secoiridoids fraction in relation to fibrosis and cancer. There are plenty of such articles in the literature. Why to give up the xenohormetic benefits of EVOO phenolic compounds? They constitute a real natural anti-aging supplement.

 

Phenolic Secoiridoids in Extra Virgin Olive Oil Impede Fibrogenic and Oncogenic Epithelial-to-Mesenchymal Transition: Extra Virgin Olive Oil As a Source of Novel Antiaging Phytochemicals

Edited by mccoy, 01 July 2017 - 06:43 AM.

[Telo]

In terms of health I think olive oil is the most overrated food ever. Personally I try to minimize all oils as much as possible. However, when having the occational Greek salad a good EVOO is of course required

      

Top 100 polyphenol richest foods:

https://www.nature.c...cn2010221a.html

EVOO is ranked 61 and is beaten by things like refined maize flour. And note that this is per 100g or 100ml. Things would look even worse for EVOO if  the ranking was per calorie, since oil is the most calorie dense food out there.

 

120 calories leaf lettuce vs 120 calories olive oil:

https://www.pritikin...live_chart.html

Except for some vitamin E there isn’t really much of value in olive oil. Empty fat-calories like table sugar is empty carbohydrate-calories.

 

Plus it has been shown to impair endothelial function of the arteries.

http://www.sciencedi...008962?via=ihub

Edited by Telo, 03 July 2017 - 03:38 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

In terms of health I think olive oil is the most overrated food ever. Personally I try to minimize all oils as much as possible. However, when having the occational Greek salad a good EVOO is of course required

      

Top 100 polyphenol richest foods:

https://www.nature.c...ml#figure-title

EVOO is ranked 61 and is beaten by things like refined maize flour. And note that this is per 100g or 100ml. Things would look even worse for EVOO if  the ranking was per calorie, since oil is the most calorie dense food out there.

 

 

 

Your link does not go to any list. And in any case, olive oils vary widely in polyphenol content.

[Telo]

 

In terms of health I think olive oil is the most overrated food ever. Personally I try to minimize all oils as much as possible. However, when having the occational Greek salad a good EVOO is of course required

      

Top 100 polyphenol richest foods:

https://www.nature.c...ml#figure-title

EVOO is ranked 61 and is beaten by things like refined maize flour. And note that this is per 100g or 100ml. Things would look even worse for EVOO if  the ranking was per calorie, since oil is the most calorie dense food out there.

 

 

 

Your link does not go to any list. And in any case, olive oils vary widely in polyphenol content.

 

Sorry, linking directly to the list didn't work. I changed the link to the study itself. Just scroll down to Table 1.

[Turnbuckle]

This list is by serving and the serving sizes vary considerably. But is this the right way to look at it? Sorting them by mg/g gives a different order--

 

1 34.33 Cocoa powder

2 16.65 Dark chocolate

3 15.30 Flaxseed meal

4 13.49 Black elderberry

5 12.11 Chestnut

6 11.00 Black chokeberry

7 7.53 Blackcurrant

8 5.67 Black olive

9 5.56 Highbush blueberry

10 4.93 Hazelnut

11 4.65 Soy flour

12 4.60 Pecan nut

13 3.76 Plum

14 3.47 Green olive

15 2.72 Lowbush blueberry

16 2.72 Sweet cherry

17 2.60 Blackberry

18 2.60 Globe artichoke heads

19 2.47 Roasted soybean

20 2.36 Red chicory

21 2.35 Strawberry

22 2.34 Milk chocolate

23 2.15 Red raspberry

24 2.15 Coffee, filter

25 1.94 Prune

26 1.90 Almond

27 1.69 Black grape

28 1.67 Red onion

29 1.64 Green chicory

30 1.49 Black bean

31 1.48 Soy, tempeh

32 1.45 Whole grain rye flour

33 1.35 Apple

34 1.26 White bean

35 1.22 Whole grain rye bread

36 1.19 Spinach

37 1.13 Shallot

38 1.01 Black tea

39 1.01 Red wine

40 0.89 Green grape

41 0.89 Green tea

42 0.84 Soy yogurt

43 0.73 Yellow onion

44 0.73 Soy meat

45 0.70 Whole grain wheat flour

46 0.68 Pure apple juice

47 0.66 Pure pomegranate juice

48 0.63 Extra virgin olive oil

49 0.60 Peach

50 0.53 Pure grapefruit juice

51 0.46 Pure blood orange juice

52 0.46 Broccoli

53 0.43 Redcurrant

54 0.42 Pure lemon juice

55 0.42 Soy tofu

56 0.34 Apricot

57 0.29 Asparagus

58 0.28 Potato

59 0.25 Nectarine

60 0.24 Curly endive

61 0.23 Red lettuce

62 0.21 Chocolate beverage with milk

63 0.19 Quince

64 0.18 Soy milk

65 0.18 Endive (escarole)

66 0.18 Pure pummelo juice

67 0.17 Pear

68 0.16 Rapeseed oil

69 0.16 Soybean sprout

70 0.14 Carrot

71 0.12 Soy cheese

72 0.10 White wine

73 0.10 Rosé wine

74 0.08 Green bean

75 0.08 Refined oat flour

76 0.08 Green lettuce

77 0.07 Cauliflower

78 0.07 Peanut roasted dehulled

79 0.06 Refined wheat flour

80 0.05 White onion

81 0.05 Bilberry

82 0.05 Sweet green pepper

83 0.04 Tomato

84 0.04 Pumpkin

85 0.04 Pasta

86 0.04 Beer

87 0.03 Banana

88 0.02 Dark beer

89 0.01 Pomegranate

 

 

Olive oil is No. 48 by this ranking. An even better ranking would be mg/calorie, and you can expect by that measure olive oil would fall dramatically. Another question is what polyphenols are present, since there are hundreds known and they have different biological effects. Olive oil contains polyphenols such as oleuropein and hydroxytyrosol, while cocoa powder contains catechins, flavonol glycosides, anthocyanins and procyanidins. So you really have to first ask what polyphenols you want, and then if you get them without the calories. Many, such as oleuropein, hydroxytyrosol, and catechins are available in capsules with minimal calories.

 

Other examples: The most common polyphenols in flaxseed meal are hydroxycinnamic acids, and black elderberry contains cyanidin, delphinidin, pelargonidin, proanthocyanidins, catechins, quercetin, kaempferol, myricetin, and isorhamnetin.

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 03 July 2017 - 05:48 PM.

[Mind]

It would be a rather lengthy process to list all of the epidimilogical evidence that suggests extra virgin olive oil is good, positive, almost "incredible" for the health of the average person. I am surprised anyone even asks that question anymore.

[Telo]

 

This list is by serving and the serving sizes vary considerably. But is this the right way to look at it? Sorting them by mg/g gives a different order--

 

1 34.33 Cocoa powder

2 16.65 Dark chocolate

3 15.30 Flaxseed meal

4 13.49 Black elderberry

5 12.11 Chestnut

6 11.00 Black chokeberry

7 7.53 Blackcurrant

8 5.67 Black olive

9 5.56 Highbush blueberry

10 4.93 Hazelnut

11 4.65 Soy flour

12 4.60 Pecan nut

13 3.76 Plum

14 3.47 Green olive

15 2.72 Lowbush blueberry

16 2.72 Sweet cherry

17 2.60 Blackberry

18 2.60 Globe artichoke heads

19 2.47 Roasted soybean

20 2.36 Red chicory

21 2.35 Strawberry

22 2.34 Milk chocolate

23 2.15 Red raspberry

24 2.15 Coffee, filter

25 1.94 Prune

26 1.90 Almond

27 1.69 Black grape

28 1.67 Red onion

29 1.64 Green chicory

30 1.49 Black bean

31 1.48 Soy, tempeh

32 1.45 Whole grain rye flour

33 1.35 Apple

34 1.26 White bean

35 1.22 Whole grain rye bread

36 1.19 Spinach

37 1.13 Shallot

38 1.01 Black tea

39 1.01 Red wine

40 0.89 Green grape

41 0.89 Green tea

42 0.84 Soy yogurt

43 0.73 Yellow onion

44 0.73 Soy meat

45 0.70 Whole grain wheat flour

46 0.68 Pure apple juice

47 0.66 Pure pomegranate juice

48 0.63 Extra virgin olive oil

49 0.60 Peach

50 0.53 Pure grapefruit juice

51 0.46 Pure blood orange juice

52 0.46 Broccoli

53 0.43 Redcurrant

54 0.42 Pure lemon juice

55 0.42 Soy tofu

56 0.34 Apricot

57 0.29 Asparagus

58 0.28 Potato

59 0.25 Nectarine

60 0.24 Curly endive

61 0.23 Red lettuce

62 0.21 Chocolate beverage with milk

63 0.19 Quince

64 0.18 Soy milk

65 0.18 Endive (escarole)

66 0.18 Pure pummelo juice

67 0.17 Pear

68 0.16 Rapeseed oil

69 0.16 Soybean sprout

70 0.14 Carrot

71 0.12 Soy cheese

72 0.10 White wine

73 0.10 Rosé wine

74 0.08 Green bean

75 0.08 Refined oat flour

76 0.08 Green lettuce

77 0.07 Cauliflower

78 0.07 Peanut roasted dehulled

79 0.06 Refined wheat flour

80 0.05 White onion

81 0.05 Bilberry

82 0.05 Sweet green pepper

83 0.04 Tomato

84 0.04 Pumpkin

85 0.04 Pasta

86 0.04 Beer

87 0.03 Banana

88 0.02 Dark beer

89 0.01 Pomegranate

 

 

Olive oil is No. 48 by this ranking. An even better ranking would be mg/calorie, and you can expect by that measure olive oil would fall dramatically. Another question is what polyphenols are present, since there are hundreds known and they have different biological effects. Olive oil contains polyphenols such as oleuropein and hydroxytyrosol, while cocoa powder contains catechins, flavonol glycosides, anthocyanins and procyanidins. So you really have to first ask what polyphenols you want, and then if you get them without the calories. Many, such as oleuropein, hydroxytyrosol, and catechins are available in capsules with minimal calories.

 

 

I agree about avoiding unnecessary calories but...are we sure that taking those capsules have the same effect as the included polyphenols would have in the context of the whole olive or the EVOO? Maybe we should just eat some olives if there are unique substances in there that we can't find in other foods? 

From what I've learned about nutrition the whole is often greater than the sum of it's parts.

You might not agree with everything T Colin Campbell (China Study, Whole) says/writes but he has some profound things to say about synergistic effects between the thousands of substances in food, and the limitations of reductionistic thinking when it comes to nutrition. 

[aconita]

Facts are that Mediterranean populations, where olive oil consumption is high by tradition, do live longer and healthier than most, likely not due just by the olive oil but certainly it doesn't do harm.

 

Olive oil is regarded as "holy" since memory goes, in ancient Greece athletes prize was olive oil, a branch of olive tree was a symbol of peace, corpses were treated with olive oil before burial, etc...just coincidence?

 

Listing for poliphenols is very reductive, it isn't just poliphenols, poliphenols aren't all the same but a wide family (as already pointed out by the always brilliant Turnbuckle), plus other factors comes into play too, for example black olives are ranked 8 while green olive are ranked 14, now the difference between the two is that green olives are harvested from the tree while the black ones are collected from the ground.

 

The green olives fall on the ground and start a process of fermentation that turns them black, they have less commercial value and taste different, obviously the fermentation process alters some components and oxidation take places, some water loss due to partial drying is likely the main reasons why poliphenols percentage is higher but if we consider the whole nutrients spectrum and condition I doubt they'll be preferable to green ones.

[Benko]

I am surprised anyone even asks that question anymore.

 

Mind,

 

It probably comes up because Dr. Michael Greger the vegan MD who wrote the book "How Not to Die" is very popular at the moment as is veganism which is apparently trendy.

 

Greger has a lot of really good diet related information (related to health, not anti-aging), but is not unbiased.  The 2nd link by the original poster is Greger.

[Nate-2004]

 

I am surprised anyone even asks that question anymore.

 

Mind,

 

It probably comes up because Dr. Michael Greger the vegan MD who wrote the book "How Not to Die" is very popular at the moment as is veganism which is apparently trendy.

 

Greger has a lot of really good diet related information (related to health, not anti-aging), but is not unbiased.  The 2nd link by the original poster is Greger.

 

 

Yeah while some of his videos are quite informative and useful, the rest are obvious cases of bias in terms of leaving out a lot of pertinent information.

[normalizing]

It would be a rather lengthy process to list all of the epidimilogical evidence that suggests extra virgin olive oil is good, positive, almost "incredible" for the health of the average person. I am surprised anyone even asks that question anymore.

 

i didnt understand this. the way you say this is either against or pro olive oil. are you saying its useless to ask if olive oil is good for one's health because of the tremendous research saying IT IS, or are you just saying, its waste of time to ask this anymore since its not really that important?

[Telo]

Yes, there is a lot of data on the olive oil containing mediterranean diet. It’s clearly healthier and you reduce your risk of heart disease and stroke i.e. it doesn’t clog your arteries as fast as the SAD diet. What if I don’t want to clog my arteries at all? Where’s the proof that I can eat olive oil regularly and not get atherosclerosis in the long run?

 

On the other hand there are clinical studies using oil free plant based diets showing reversal of stenosis in the arteries and almost total elimination of coronary events in the participants. These studies by Ornish and Esselstyn are small but AFAIK there are no studies done with the Med diet or any other diet showing these kind of results. Of course you can’t base national recommendations on studies on 200 people but I’m baffled by people who simply dismiss Ornish /Esselstyn and calls it a fad diet. The rational reaction should be: Hmm this looks impressive, we should try to fund some bigger studies on this Whole Food Plant Based diet and compare directly against the Mediterranean diet and the Paleo diet etc.

 

Then there’s the mechanistic studies on EVOO and artery function using FMD showing impairment in endothelial function several hours after ingestion. As I understand it, if this is repeated over and over it will cause atherosclerosis over time because the endothelial cells won’t be able to produce enough of the protective gas nitric oxide. 

 

 

[pamojja]

On the other hand there are clinical studies using oil free plant based diets showing reversal of stenosis in the arteries and almost total elimination of coronary events in the participants. These studies by Ornish and Esselstyn are small but AFAIK there are no studies done with the Med diet or any other diet showing these kind of results. Of course you can’t base national recommendations on studies on 200 people but I’m baffled by people who simply dismiss Ornish /Esselstyn and calls it a fad diet. The rational reaction should be: Hmm this looks impressive, we should try to fund some bigger studies on this Whole Food Plant Based diet and compare directly against the Mediterranean diet and the Paleo diet etc.

 

Can only speak of myself. But I've been a low-fat vegan since age 10. With age 41 got a PAD due to a 80% stenosis at my aorta, and a 60% walking-disability. Reverted it dietary-wise by adding loads of healthy fats, and started to eat eggs, cheese and fish again. Read the rest here.

Edited by pamojja, 04 July 2017 - 10:16 AM.

[mccoy]

Yes, there is a lot of data on the olive oil containing mediterranean diet. It’s clearly healthier and you reduce your risk of heart disease and stroke i.e. it doesn’t clog your arteries as fast as the SAD diet. What if I don’t want to clog my arteries at all? Where’s the proof that I can eat olive oil regularly and not get atherosclerosis in the long run?

 

On the other hand there are clinical studies using oil free plant based diets showing reversal of stenosis in the arteries and almost total elimination of coronary events in the participants. These studies by Ornish and Esselstyn are small but AFAIK there are no studies done with the Med diet or any other diet showing these kind of results. Of course you can’t base national recommendations on studies on 200 people but I’m baffled by people who simply dismiss Ornish /Esselstyn and calls it a fad diet. The rational reaction should be: Hmm this looks impressive, we should try to fund some bigger studies on this Whole Food Plant Based diet and compare directly against the Mediterranean diet and the Paleo diet etc.

 

Then there’s the mechanistic studies on EVOO and artery function using FMD showing impairment in endothelial function several hours after ingestion. As I understand it, if this is repeated over and over it will cause atherosclerosis over time because the endothelial cells won’t be able to produce enough of the protective gas nitric oxide. 

 

First of all: a condition of serious CVD is another ballgame. The preventive use of EVOO and its protective effects against CD have nothing to do with a protocol to reverse CVD and specifically coronary problems due to plaques.

 

IF I had coronary disease, I would immediately adopt the drastic , oil-free protocol of Ornish and Esselstyin, you can bank on it.

 

Whereas, for the lucky ones who are in an healthy state, without arterial plaques, ingesting good-quality EVOO will be part of a preventive strategy against those very plaques.

 

Where is it written that EVOO will slowly clog my arteries? Where are the studies which specify the EVOO quality, complete with lab analyses, which prove that a long term ingestion (in which amounts) have caused CV disease and in which prevalence? Complete with an analysis of the confounding factors. We must be scientific in this. Writing about 'olive oil' is not scientific, it's a very generic term, which commercially is very different from the good-quality, polyphenols-rich EVOO which is usually correlated to protective effects.

[mccoy]

Re: Greger et al.

 

I understand the logic of Dr. Greger and the other vegan doctors like Fuhrman, esseltsyin, Mc Dougall and in part Ornish. EVOO is not a natural food rather an extract of olive, the fruit of the olive tree.

 

Scientific evidence though suggests that such a natural extract, when produced mechanically processing the olives at low temperature and under certain controlled conditions is beneficial to health.

 

If I believe that the natural extract contains too many calories or may have some adverse effects, the sensible strategy is to minimize the quantity and maximize the quality, that is, choose EVOOs with very high content of polyphenols.

 

[mccoy]

Re: polyphenols in EVOO.

 

The group of phenolic compound is a huge one and includes most of the chemical compounds manufactured by the specieses belonging to the vegetable kingdom.

 

So, as another poster has already written, we should not reason in terms of generic polyphenols, rather of the specific phenolic compounds which bring about specific beneficial health effects, like the EVOO secoiridoids (Oleoeuropeine) which are specific to olives and EVOO. The benefits of secoiridoids are specific and may not be provided by other phenolic compounds.

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

 

I agree about avoiding unnecessary calories but...are we sure that taking those capsules have the same effect as the included polyphenols would have in the context of the whole olive or the EVOO? Maybe we should just eat some olives if there are unique substances in there that we can't find in other foods? 

From what I've learned about nutrition the whole is often greater than the sum of it's parts.

You might not agree with everything T Colin Campbell (China Study, Whole) says/writes but he has some profound things to say about synergistic effects between the thousands of substances in food, and the limitations of reductionistic thinking when it comes to nutrition. 

 

 

Sometimes the ingredients are synergistic and sometimes they're antagonistic. As it is, these foods contain large numbers of biologically active ingredients, so ranking them according to some generic group called polyphenols is like ranking them according to their overall drug content without asking what drugs are in them and what conditions you might have. While I agree with your comment about "reductionistic thinking," to say that a natural drug combination is synergistic is unwarranted without studies. As in this paper--Synergistic, additive, and antagonistic effects of food mixtures on total antioxidant capacities. (They looked at combinations of foods that are themselves combinations of polyphenols and other antioxidants, so they could have gone further and studied combinations of pure compounds, and then even further by testing the best combinations on animals rather than just with chemical-based assays.)

Edited by Turnbuckle, 04 July 2017 - 11:58 AM.

[mccoy]

Another valid, recent article on EVOOs benefits:

 

Xenohormetic and anti-aging activity of secoiridoid polyphenols present in extra virgin olive oil

 

The articles clearly explains which are the phenolic compounds, specifically of the secoiridoids group, which are prevalente in EVOO, specifically a variety of EVOO analyzed, which one is the variety, which are the analytical techniques used, which ones are the mechanistic explanations of some of the benefits of the secoiridoids.

 

This is an example of a scientific article, not some pseudo-scientific material which does not even specify which oil they are dealing with ('Olive oil'? What that means?).

[Mike C]

[quote name="mccoy" post="820507" timestamp="1499165711"]

[quote name="Telo" post="820497" timestamp="1499158732"]

Yes, there is a lot of data on the olive oil containing mediterranean diet. It’s clearly healthier and you reduce your risk of heart disease and stroke i.e. it doesn’t clog your arteries as fast as the SAD diet. What if I don’t want to clog my arteries at all? Where’s the proof that I can eat olive oil regularly and not get atherosclerosis in the long run?

On the other hand there are clinical studies using oil free plant based diets showing reversal of stenosis in the arteries and almost total elimination of coronary events in the participants. These studies by Ornish and Esselstyn are small but AFAIK there are no studies done with the Med diet or any other diet showing these kind of results. Of course you can’t base national recommendations on studies on 200 people but I’m baffled by people who simply dismiss Ornish /Esselstyn and calls it a fad diet. The rational reaction should be: Hmm this looks impressive, we should try to fund some bigger studies on this Whole Food Plant Based diet and compare directly a

IF I had coronary disease, I would immediately adopt the drastic , oil-free protocol of Ornish and Esselstyin, you can bank on it.

Whereas, for the lucky ones who are in an healthy state, without arterial plaques, ingesting good-quality EVOO will be part of a preventive strategy against those very plaques.

Where is it written that EVOO will slowly clog my arteries? Where are the studies which specify the EVOO quality, complete with lab analyses, which prove that a long term ingestion (in which amounts) have caused CV disease and in which prevalence? Complete with an analysis of the confounding factors. We must be scientific in this. Writing about 'olive oil' is not scientific, it's a very generic term, which commercially is very different from the good-quality, polyphenols-rich EVOO which is usually correlated to protective effects.[/quote]

McCoy,

How do you really know if your one of the healthy ones. If you are so certain a low fat diet would prevent cad then why not just go with that and reap the benefits. Afterall most of us will die of some form of artery disease e.g., stroke, heart attack, dementia, hear failure etc. why not clean out all the likely plaque that ends up in our brains/ hearts/ legs etc.

Edited by Mike C, 04 July 2017 - 01:23 PM.