17 replies to this topic

[VanWinkle]

I've had multiple sclerosis since 1995, in a wheelchair since 2011.

 

Since 2014 I've been using extended release Niacin as a sublingual to induce a flush and increase mobility. I go from paraplegic in wheelchair to walking with walker up to 100 feet. Stiffness is gone from legs. Also allows me to work out for 60 minutes. But then the flush fades and I can't even tap my toe! . I found people in weightlifting forums also stating the niacin flush helps their workouts.

500-800 mg ER Niacin is what I take as sublingual to generate a flush. If you try this start small with 50 mg and work your way up. Use a pill crusher, put the power under tongue. It's very intense, so be careful. You will get used to it eventually, but at first it is an uncomfortable, itchy sunburn feeling. I had been taking it orally, but you can't predict when the flush will start; with sublingual the flush starts right away. I only do this 3-4 times a week to avoid liver damage issues.

 

So the question is, A) have I found a way to unlock the NAD+ fire hose? Can ATP have this big and fast an effect on my energy? Or B) is it vasodialtion and more oxygen to the tissues?

 

 

A) Ramps up NAD through the Krebs cycle to make more ATP, which gives the cells energy.

 

Taking Niacin Makes Your Mitochondria Happy video

 

I haven't found niacinamide to be as effective as the ER Niacin flush, but per Dr. Sarah Myhill a UK-based physician and clinical nutritionist:

Niacinamide (B3): A Little Vitamin the Mitochondria Must Have

http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=16953

 

“Any condition associated with poor mitochondrial function, such as chronic fatigue syndrome… may well benefit from niacinamide supplementation.”

But can NAD+ create such a dramatic energy increase in just a few minutes, enough to get me walking?

 

 

B) The mechanism and mitigation of niacin-induced flushing

 

Niacin activates the arachidonic acid cascade to induce vasodilatation. Niacin activates the G-protein coupled receptor 109A (GPR109A) to increase cAMP and releases arachidonic acid from cell membranes. Arachidonic acid is metabolised to produce prostaglandins, ...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2779993/

 

If I know which method of action to  pursue, maybe I can find other supplements or medications that would make the energy effect last longer. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

 

I did try Niagen for 3 months and Basis for 2 months. Neither of these nicotinamide riboside products made any change to energy level. 

Edited by VanWinkle, 01 July 2017 - 12:40 AM.

[ta5]

Very interesting.

 

One question: What dose of NR were you taking per day during your 3 and 2 month trials of Niagen and Basis?

[normalizing]

nicotinamide riboside has to be the biggest fluke. i have seen dozen of reports of regular people claiming various forms of niacin helping them in one way or another, but NEVER when trying the overpriced niacin derivation with the fancy name of NIAGEN

[MightyMouse]

nicotinamide riboside has to be the biggest fluke. i have seen dozen of reports of regular people claiming various forms of niacin helping them in one way or another, but NEVER when trying the overpriced niacin derivation with the fancy name of NIAGEN

 

So I take it you have read the niagen experience thread from start to finish then? No positive experiences there? Niagen is supposed to have a long term effect on mitochondrial function anyways, it doesnt grow back limbs or give you x-ray vision.

Edited by MightyMouse, 01 July 2017 - 06:02 AM.

[joelcairo]

If the benefit fades when the niacin flush fades, I'd bet that it is directly connected to the flush effect, not to ATP or NAD. The benefit might be a direct cause of the improved blood flow, or conceivably whatever triggers the vasodilation also triggers something in nerve cells.

[MikeDC]

First if you want flush, you don't take extended release niacin.
Niacin can increase NAD+ to some extent, but Nicotinamide Riboside is much more effective.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

You made a major mistake. Niacin and vitamin B3 is nicotinic acid. Niacinamide is an entirely different molecule with different properties.

And yes MikeDC is correct that you should not take slow or extended release if you want the flush, just take regular nicotinic acid which is dirt cheap.

 

Anti-inflammatory effects occur in multiple tissue types (but obviously not all) during flushing.

Niacin also increases acetylcholine and serotonin.

There could be many reasons why it helps you.

 

Try carnitine and see if it also helps you. If it does then it may be your mitochondria.

Edited by PeaceAndProsperity, 01 July 2017 - 02:16 PM.

[pamojja]

First if you want flush, you don't take extended release niacin.

 

Extended release niacin, as in Niaspan, is nicotinic acid and therefore can give flush. Not as sudden though, but more milder and for a longer period. It was developed for those who can't handle an more intense flush. It is harder on the liver though.

 

 

You made a major mistake. Niacin and vitamin B3 is nicotinic acid. Niacinamide is an entirely different molecule with different properties.

Extended release niacin OP was taking is nicotinic acid. You confused what he was taking with the niacinamide in Dr. Myhill's article.

[Benko]

 

Extended release niacin, ... is harder on the liver though.

 

 

Important point.

[normalizing]

 

nicotinamide riboside has to be the biggest fluke. i have seen dozen of reports of regular people claiming various forms of niacin helping them in one way or another, but NEVER when trying the overpriced niacin derivation with the fancy name of NIAGEN

 

So I take it you have read the niagen experience thread from start to finish then? No positive experiences there? Niagen is supposed to have a long term effect on mitochondrial function anyways, it doesnt grow back limbs or give you x-ray vision.

 

 

so i can sell you beans and claim they work on mitochondria, but you wont feel anything for years, but you have to take them for years, would you do it?
 

[MikeDC]

nicotinamide riboside has to be the biggest fluke. i have seen dozen of reports of regular people claiming various forms of niacin helping them in one way or another, but NEVER when trying the overpriced niacin derivation with the fancy name of NIAGEN

So I take it you have read the niagen experience thread from start to finish then? No positive experiences there? Niagen is supposed to have a long term effect on mitochondrial function anyways, it doesnt grow back limbs or give you x-ray vision.

so i can sell you beans and claim they work on mitochondria, but you wont feel anything for years, but you have to take them for years, would you do it?

That is not a valid argument. Human clinical trials has shown Niagen increases NAD+ and provide health benefit. If you give it to an 80 year old, he will feel results very quickly. I am 55 and felt the result in two weeks on the skin.

[normalizing]

 

 

 

nicotinamide riboside has to be the biggest fluke. i have seen dozen of reports of regular people claiming various forms of niacin helping them in one way or another, but NEVER when trying the overpriced niacin derivation with the fancy name of NIAGEN

So I take it you have read the niagen experience thread from start to finish then? No positive experiences there? Niagen is supposed to have a long term effect on mitochondrial function anyways, it doesnt grow back limbs or give you x-ray vision.

so i can sell you beans and claim they work on mitochondria, but you wont feel anything for years, but you have to take them for years, would you do it?

That is not a valid argument. Human clinical trials has shown Niagen increases NAD+ and provide health benefit. If you give it to an 80 year old, he will feel results very quickly. I am 55 and felt the result in two weeks on the skin.

 

 

no i have seen the trials (which were conducted by the company marketing the product of course) and i have to ask you this though, how much of the real product are you getting anyway? you do realize the pills you are taking are likely to be adulterated to save money? not like you can test them yourself right? i have had this discussion before of how supplements are adulterated, check google for further study if you are interested. its how it works in the business, making money for less work. or just google business, i guess

anyway, about you feeling greater than usual from using niagen, it could be because you are eating or using many other supplements which im sure you are doing, no need to confirm. it could just be a great placebo!
 

[MikeDC]

Just happens that ChromaDex has a quality control program for the supplements market in order to fix the issue. 200,000 users don't all have placedo. It is real. Blood test doesn't lie. Only one or two studies are done by the company. All the other studies are independent researchers.

[Heisok]

Thanks for the information VanWinkle. For those questioning the ability of ER Niacin to give a flush, I have quoted the original post below. Further down is the warning about ER Niacin which supports the OP's experience. I am not suggesting one follow the protocol, but it is very good to hear the experience.

 

"500-800 mg ER Niacin is what I take as sublingual to generate a flush. If you try this start small with 50 mg and work your way up. Use a pill crusher, put the power under tongue. It's very intense, so be careful."

 

"Do not crush, chew, break, or open an extended-release tablet or capsule. Swallow it whole. Breaking or opening the pill may cause too much of the drug to be released at one time."

 

[normalizing]

Just happens that ChromaDex has a quality control program for the supplements market in order to fix the issue. 200,000 users don't all have placedo. It is real. Blood test doesn't lie. Only one or two studies are done by the company. All the other studies are independent researchers.

 

its almost as if you work for them. how do you know what quality program they have? what 200,000 people?? why would independent researches waste time and money to promote a product for a specific company? i guess if they got paid by the company, its likely...
 

[SearchHorizon]

I believe different forms of vitamin B3 have different tissue specificities. 

Edited by SearchHorizon, 02 July 2017 - 06:17 AM.

[MikeDC]

Just happens that ChromaDex has a quality control program for the supplements market in order to fix the issue. 200,000 users don't all have placedo. It is real. Blood test doesn't lie. Only one or two studies are done by the company. All the other studies are independent researchers.

its almost as if you work for them. how do you know what quality program they have? what 200,000 people?? why would independent researches waste time and money to promote a product for a specific company? i guess if they got paid by the company, its likely...

They sell their quality program service to other supplement companies. Independent researchers are excited about the effectiveness of Nicotinamide Riboside against many diseases.
Researchers want to discover and publish. The first drug drug trial against Cockayne Syndrome will done by NIH.

[normalizing]

well its hard to take anything serious when a person with -81 ratings states things