176 replies to this topic

[Robinvanpersie]

I've seen a lot of posts and discussions about substances that could slow, stop or reverse aging in rats.

 

Is it true? And if so, what substances that are available to buy somewhere has proven to do great work against aging?

[sthira]

Yes, that's true. But keep in mind rodents aren't people. And many of the studies you're reading or hearing about are genetically modified rodents. Rodent studies are a step along the way in a long slow process.

No doubt many promising human interventions are now in human clinical trials, but these are still ongoing projects that are limited by the complexities of biology, the red tape of regulations, the greed of the capitalistic system that seeks short term profit in healthcare over repair caused by degenerative aging.

Do the things obvious and known to you to stay healthy; live as long as possible in order to possibly one day be allowed to meaningfully delay and reverse the ravages. Support research. Especially here in a dark political moment when current policy seems intently anti-science.

[tunt01]

Is it true? And if so, what substances that are available to buy somewhere has proven to do great work against aging?

 

 

There is a reason why there are tens of thousands of posts on this forum, debate, and discussion.  What constitutes 'proof' and what is applicable to you (male, female, old, young, etc.) is potentially a lengthy discussion.

 

 

[Robinvanpersie]

Thanks for good answers.

 

Can you provide with some names of the available substances that looks most promising in some of the anti-aging areas?

[floweryriddle]

Thanks for good answers.

Can you provide with some names of the available substances that looks most promising in some of the anti-aging areas?

IMO:

- Niagen / NMN
- Methylene Blue for skin
- (coffee?)

Of course there is more to it than just substances. Caloric restriction and exercise are some other ways.

[tintinet]

Also rapamycin, FOXO4 D-retro-inverso peptide.

[Chris Pollyanna]

Also Spermidine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/27841876

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28386016

[Nate-2004]

 

Thanks for good answers.

Can you provide with some names of the available substances that looks most promising in some of the anti-aging areas?

IMO:

- Niagen / NMN
- Methylene Blue for skin
- (coffee?)

Of course there is more to it than just substances. Caloric restriction and exercise are some other ways.

 

 

I've not heard of methylene blue till now and I read about it just now on selfhacked. I looked it up but found it on Amazon as something sold for fish tanks. Have you tried it? Where do you get it?

 

The more I read about it the more cautious I am about taking it. I am not all that big on taking MAOI's. There are way too many restrictions on what you can and can't consume with MAOIs, the list is infinite. I also see it's injected? 

Edited by Nate-2004, 25 July 2017 - 04:16 AM.

[Robinvanpersie]

Also rapamycin, FOXO4 D-retro-inverso peptide.

Thanks. Do you know if FOXO4 D-retro-inverso peptide available to buy somewhere?

[RWhigham]

Thanks. Do you know if FOXO4 D-retro-inverso peptide available to buy somewhere? 

It's not currently practical. You need to inject  a few thousand dollars worth every day for a month.  Darren Moore, age 51, injected it for 31 days   He gives the following Suppliers

 

 

Edited by RWhigham, 30 July 2017 - 01:55 AM.

[MikeDC]

The only anti aging thing that is real now is NAD+ precursors. Everything else is a waste of time and money.

[Nate-2004]

 

Thanks. Do you know if FOXO4 D-retro-inverso peptide available to buy somewhere? 

It's not currently practical. You need to inject  a few thousand dollars worth every day for a month.  Darren Moore, age 51, injected it for 31 days   He gives the following Suppliers

 

 

Not true. Depending on your current age, I don't think you need to go even remotely as far as Darren Moore does. Maybe based on the current group by price it's about $820 per 3 day treatment. I don't think you'd need more than 6 days at most and not even in the same month. Twice a year perhaps?

 

It's really hard to say considering that while senescent cells are a problem to be addressed, they aren't even a major player in the cause of aging till much later in life, 60's and 70's perhaps.

 

Ultimately one of the biggest players in aging is glycation, specifically glucosepane, and right now if you want a product sooner than later, donate to SENS and specify Spiegel labs as the recipient. I'll be running a campaign for this later in the year when I can get something filmed for promotion.

Edited by Nate-2004, 07 August 2017 - 04:30 PM.

[normalizing]

Also Spermidine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/27841876

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28386016

 

where does one acquire spermidine? i was looking for it before with no success, but im trying again now after learning its present in semen and too much masturbation depletes you of it :(
 

[Chris Pollyanna]

 

Also Spermidine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/27841876

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28386016

 

where does one acquire spermidine? i was looking for it before with no success, but im trying again now after learning its present in semen and too much masturbation depletes you of it :(
 

 

Ahhh... so THAT explains my grey hairs then! ;-)

 

But seriously, there don't appear to be any supplements available, however it is widely found in foods, as per Wikipedia for the highest sources:

 

Food Spermidine
mg/kg notes & refs Wheat germ 243 ^[13] Soybean,dried 207 Japanese ^[12] Cheddar, 1yr old 199 ^[12] Soybean,dried 128 German ^[12] Mushroom 89 Japanese ^[12] Rice bran 50 ^[12] chicken liver 48 ^[12] Green peas 46 ^[12] Mango 30 ^[12] Chickpea 29 ^[12] Cauliflower (cooked) 25 ^[12] Broccoli (cooked) 25 ^[12]

Personally, I started adding wheat germ to my daily diet: a few tea spoons mixed in with things - doesn't really affect the taste & bags of wheat germ are very cheap!

[normalizing]

i dont get it about your hair getting grey. mine does too and i do masturbate a lot also i know its common joke online you will go blind from too much masturbation but i do have vision problems too when i go as far as 3 masturbations a day. could be related to the extended viewing of porn online tho, which probably puts strain on your eyes...

 

anyway, not interested in foods containing it that is ridiculous. you will have to consume too much of a food you dont enjoy or start not enjoying anyway from overdose. they say melatonin is present in food too, but when i tried their highest source ever, tart cherries, i only developed diarrhea, not sleep improvement. so seriously, i have to ask, why is there no spermidine suppliment so far.....

[stulancs]

The ones I'm most interested in at the moment are rapamycin, nicotinamide riboside, FOXO4-DRI, and good old blueberries.

[meatsauce]

The ones I'm most interested in at the moment are rapamycin, nicotinamide riboside, FOXO4-DRI, and good old blueberries.

http://www.longecity...roup-buy/page-3

 

Get in on the group buy while you can. 

[normalizing]

why are people praising nicotinamide riboside so much. do you feel anything at all when taking it? im probably the only guy who has taken several bottles of the stuff with zero effect in any parameter. i understand you cant really feel the longevity effect so easy and simple, but shouldnt it be doing ANYTHING AT ALL over time? like start noticing better health in general?? none of those i have noticed, keeping in mind i have taken bottles for months unlike some people taking small doses and not being able to afford it since its expensive. but whats the point if other cheaper simple antioxidants i notice and this i dont?? highly overrated in my opinion and the studies im seeing are just simple misleading not well organized trials on various animals...

[ceridwen]

I think methylene blue might be a MAOI

[shadowhawk]

why are people praising nicotinamide riboside so much. do you feel anything at all when taking it? im probably the only guy who has taken several bottles of the stuff with zero effect in any parameter. i understand you cant really feel the longevity effect so easy and simple, but shouldnt it be doing ANYTHING AT ALL over time? like start noticing better health in general?? none of those i have noticed, keeping in mind i have taken bottles for months unlike some people taking small doses and not being able to afford it since its expensive. but whats the point if other cheaper simple antioxidants i notice and this i dont?? highly overrated in my opinion and the studies im seeing are just simple misleading not well organized trials on various animals...

 

What did you think you would feel?  I take lots of supplements which I do not feel such as a good multi.  Not against feeling but is that a marker of something healthy?   I do not feel most of the food I eat either except it stops hunger.  The science is what guides me most and that is sketchy at best. 
 

[YOLF]

 

Thanks for good answers.

Can you provide with some names of the available substances that looks most promising in some of the anti-aging areas?

IMO:

- Niagen / NMN
- Methylene Blue for skin
- (coffee?)

Of course there is more to it than just substances. Caloric restriction and exercise are some other ways.

 

Niagen reverses symptoms, are the effects permanent? Methylene blue has some really bad side effects, wouldn't quercetin be a better alternative?

[YOLF]

Also rapamycin, FOXO4 D-retro-inverso peptide.

Rapamycin's benefits are tiny compared to what most people look for. A single digit lifespan increase isn't going to make you look or feel significantly younger while you're young. I'm not sure about the rest.

[shadowhawk]

 

 

Thanks for good answers.

Can you provide with some names of the available substances that looks most promising in some of the anti-aging areas?

IMO:

- Niagen / NMN
- Methylene Blue for skin
- (coffee?)

Of course there is more to it than just substances. Caloric restriction and exercise are some other ways.

 

Niagen reverses symptoms, are the effects permanent? Methylene blue has some really bad side effects, wouldn't quercetin be a better alternative?

 

I have had some long lasting and dramatic effects of Quercetin.

[YOLF]

I've taken just about everything, and my favorites so far are as follows and many have synergy when taken together:

1. Polypodium and derivatives such as: Beta Ecdysone, Beta ecdysterone, or 20-Hydroxyecdysone (and more names), also improves the antioxidant capacity of blood, so all of those that you are taking will work better.
2. 25%+ Anthocyanins blueberry extracts
3. Cycloastragenol, and Astragaloside IV, they lengthen telomeres
4. Pterostilbene and/or Resveratrol for a variety of uses and strategies
5. Ellagic Acid Extracts from Pomegranates
6. Cocarboxylase, a new vitamin B1 derivative which by it's name and other details may be able to remove the most stubborn of glycation, even glucosepane?
7. High potency shilajit extracts, remove a good deal of intra and extracellular junk targets
8. High potency Icariins, they aren't just for old men with loss of libido and performance, they also regenerate stem cell reserves for either sex and could be synergistic with other stuff on this list.
9. DMAE/Centrophenoxine (they are similar, but different), these remove intra and extracellular junk that constricts stem cell proliferation
10. Pregnenolone, not really a permanent or semipermanent fix for anything, but it will make you more attractive and has some other benefits. HMB also seems to keep the muscles in the face young.
11. Aspirin, cheap and low doses will make you look younger even when you are young, so everyone can afford it. Who knows, it might even extend your lifespan from taking it early enough, but for the really young(actually, everyone might want to do it this way), I'd get the baby liquid stuff and take 10-20mg/day. Avoid stuff with numbered colors. Taking it too long into your old age from a starting point at around 40 has been shown to shorten lifespan as at this point the immune system has already let alot of developing pathologies get by it, and aspirin will eventually allow them to get worse, but I'm of the mind that taking it young enough would prevent that. But it does also lower the incidence of death up until the time when this happens.
12. Tocotrienols if you're not allergic to ragweed, they either come from asterids (ragweed family) or come with soybean oil (also asterids).
13. CoQ10, good but some of the best brands/formulations are poisoning people who don't know about their allergies.
14. Histidine, especially if you're young with no allergies or exposure to allergens. This will keep your immune system young and working to kill off aging cells. Use moderate doses around 100mg to start, can cause side effects and autoimmune conditions if you have allergies or exposure to allergens, #1 on this list as well as bromelain (taken intranasally at the onset of symptoms), and black cumin seed oil. There could be more, but you want to modulate away your allergies, not compromise your immune system, that will speed up aging. This stuff will kill off some skin abnormalities without leaving scars in my experience. Altogether just awesome.
15. Plain old garlic taken in .5-1g doses daily in addition to regular intake will mildly increase telomere length, though whether it actually makes you look younger for it is anyone's guess.
16. Cosmetic peptides, one my list of things to take as supplements.
17. Elastin, I don't believe what they say, applying it to the skin is awesome, inside and out, I may even try injecting it or taking it by other delivery methods.
18. Agmatine, great for a variety reasons, preserves intelligence and working memory, synergistic with neurological stem cell proliferation.

Things I reject the efficacy or usefulness of:

1. Fish oil... your just eating too much unhealthy fat and this will make you fatter in the long run
2. Gotu Kola, can make your skin older if you have undiagnosed allergies or aren't eating an awesome healthy diet
3. Anything that doesn't solve underlying aging pathologies or which isn't taken with things that solve those pathologies can accelerate aging and make you look older faster after an initial grace period.

 

Edited by YOLF, 10 August 2017 - 09:27 PM.

[RWhigham]

why are people praising nicotinamide riboside so much. do you feel anything at all when taking it? im probably the only guy who has taken several bottles of the stuff with zero effect in any parameter. i understand you cant really feel the longevity effect so easy and simple, but shouldnt it be doing ANYTHING AT ALL over time? like start noticing better health in general?? none of those i have noticed, keeping in mind i have taken bottles for months unlike some people taking small doses and not being able to afford it since its expensive. but whats the point if other cheaper simple antioxidants i notice and this i dont?? highly overrated in my opinion and the studies im seeing are just simple misleading not well organized trials on various animals

 

The NAD+ precursor nicotinamide riboside decreases exercise performance in rats 

Results

The nicotinamide riboside group showed a tendency towards worse physical performance by 35 % compared to the control group at the final 10 % load (94 ± 53 s for the nicotinamide riboside group and 145 ± 59 s for the control group; P = 0.071).

[YOLF]

 

why are people praising nicotinamide riboside so much. do you feel anything at all when taking it? im probably the only guy who has taken several bottles of the stuff with zero effect in any parameter. i understand you cant really feel the longevity effect so easy and simple, but shouldnt it be doing ANYTHING AT ALL over time? like start noticing better health in general?? none of those i have noticed, keeping in mind i have taken bottles for months unlike some people taking small doses and not being able to afford it since its expensive. but whats the point if other cheaper simple antioxidants i notice and this i dont?? highly overrated in my opinion and the studies im seeing are just simple misleading not well organized trials on various animals

 

The NAD+ precursor nicotinamide riboside decreases exercise performance in rats

Results

The nicotinamide riboside group showed a tendency towards worse physical performance by 35 % compared to the control group at the final 10 % load (94 ± 53 s for the nicotinamide riboside group and 145 ± 59 s for the control group; P = 0.071).

 

Here's my rule of thumb. I look for the results in my face/skin. If I can see myself getting younger, it's working, if not, it's not, or not to the extent that I'm looking for. Many things work and make you feel younger in the short term, but if you don't see it reversing aging, it's just a bandaid. NR can deliver some results fast, but does some of it remain if you stop taking it? It's the supplements that you can stop taking and still feel younger for having taken them that truly effective and worth your money.

[normalizing]

what do you mean about fish oil making you fat, did you consume mega grams or what? or do you mean its the saturated fat that coconut oil has too but from what ive seen people using fats in general, fish oil or coconut oil, actually lose weight

[YOLF]

what do you mean about fish oil making you fat, did you consume mega grams or what? or do you mean its the saturated fat that coconut oil has too but from what ive seen people using fats in general, fish oil or coconut oil, actually lose weight

Nope, when I was burning 1000+ calories a day working out, I'd lose less weight when I was taking fish oil than when I wasn't and it was a very big difference. I was taking standard doses, a gram or two a day of the regular grade, and when I saw that I wasn't losing weight as fast when taking fish oil, I went with the high grade, high purity Omega 3 stuff and saw no difference. Plus, I didn't see any difference in my skin. A handful of other oils that were supposed to make me stronger or make me lose weight had negative impacts on my data too. I suggest people track their results on and off.

[normalizing]

thats interesting. in general healthy fatty acids do not cause weight gain in what i have read and also in personal experiences. but i guess each one is different as the saying goes.

 

btw i was wondering to ask, what do you think about DHEA? it is said to be an anti-aging hormone and it seems reasonable to take it as you age as levels drop significantly.

Edited by hazy, 11 August 2017 - 05:12 AM.

[Robinvanpersie]

 

what do you mean about fish oil making you fat, did you consume mega grams or what? or do you mean its the saturated fat that coconut oil has too but from what ive seen people using fats in general, fish oil or coconut oil, actually lose weight

Nope, when I was burning 1000+ calories a day working out, I'd lose less weight when I was taking fish oil than when I wasn't and it was a very big difference. I was taking standard doses, a gram or two a day of the regular grade, and when I saw that I wasn't losing weight as fast when taking fish oil, I went with the high grade, high purity Omega 3 stuff and saw no difference. Plus, I didn't see any difference in my skin. A handful of other oils that were supposed to make me stronger or make me lose weight had negative impacts on my data too. I suggest people track their results on and off.

 

 

It's a big difference to say that your weight loss is slower when taking Omega 3 and what you said in your first statement, that it will make you fatter.
As we all know fat is your body's way to store excessive energy. If you burn more kcal than you put in your body you will lose weight.

 

1 cap of Omega 3 contains roughly 10 kcal so that's not much anyway, but yeah if you take a lot of them so that they contribute to make your total daily kcal intake to exceed what you burn, then yes you'll get fatter. Otherwise no, it won't and it will decrease the speed of your weight loss just slightly.