24 replies to this topic

[meatsauce]

We can get 10mg here:

 

https://www.rndsyste...ein-cf_1958-gmp

 

I can order it then I can take a video of me diluting it into other sterile vials so you know that I did it right and then ill ship those out in an ice pack to you. 

 

10ug is way too much for one person. 

[Jimmy the hand]

I'm interested, Bucky labs have 10ug for about $750 USD, how's the price comparison?

 

[meatsauce]

Much cheaper. The one in the link is manufatured under cGMP guidelines while the one from Bucky labs is made in who knows where in china. The only problem is you live in Australia and i hear customs is a bitch. I guess I could put it in the bac water vial though and leave it as that. 

[Jimmy the hand]

Customs is a bitch, but they really only test for illicit products, not actual.

[Jimmy the hand]

I'm interested, Bucky labs have 10ug for about $750 USD, how's the price comparison?

 

Actually, that is wrong, I was looking at a different product, it's actually 5ug for $120.

[Itialaneckshot]

Can any on direct me as to how to obtain gdf11 I tried ordering from Peptotech and that was a no go ,had to show proof of bein a research facility

 

Thanks Greg

[Mind]

I am mildly interested. I will watch this thread to see how it progresses.

[triguy]

interested

[ortcloud]

I'm interested, Bucky labs have 10ug for about $750 USD, how's the price comparison?

 

Wow, buckylabs 10ug. gdf11 went from $750 to $60

[Turnbuckle]

Wow, buckylabs 10ug. gdf11 went from $750 to $60

 

Perhaps because the research didn't pan out? Exogenous GDF11 induces cardiac and skeletal muscle dysfunction and wasting, according to this paper.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 01 September 2019 - 11:33 AM.

[ortcloud]

Perhaps because the research didn't pan out? Exogenous GDF11 induces cardiac and skeletal muscle dysfunction and wasting, according to this paper.

 

 

That was bad research, they injected gdf11 secreting cells and it overloaded them and poisioned them.

 

But when Richard Lee and Amy Wagers used correct biological levels and it rejuvenated the hearts.

 

GDF11 is naturally occurring. If this research was correct we would all have muscle dysfunction and wasting.

[Turnbuckle]

That was bad research, they injected gdf11 secreting cells and it overloaded them and poisioned them.

 

But when Richard Lee and Amy Wagers used correct biological levels and it rejuvenated the hearts.

 

GDF11 is naturally occurring. If this research was correct we would all have muscle dysfunction and wasting.

 

 

I'm not sure which paper you are referring to, but I presume these were their parabiosis studies? The last paper I see on Pubmed with their names is from 2019-- PMID: 31125255

 

The most telling aspect of that paper is this--

 

Richard Lee, Ryan Walker, and Amy Wagers are co-founders of, members

of the scientific advisory board for, and hold private equity in Elevian, Inc., a

company that aims to develop medicines to restore regenerative capacity.

Elevian also provides sponsored research support to the Lee Laboratory and

Wagers Laboratory.

 

 

And Elevian says this--

 

Elevian has acquired exclusive worldwide license rights under a portfolio of multiple patent families from Harvard University, based on the research activities of our scientific founders who lead labs at Harvard, and on the research activities of others as well.

 

 

I don't see anything wrong with Elevian per se, though their website shows nothing out of the preclinical stage. Nor do I see any results for trials on humans in gdf11 patent applications (though the oldest one is so massively stuffed with boilerplate I could have missed it.) Do you have any links showing great results using gdf11?

Edited by Turnbuckle, 01 September 2019 - 05:27 PM.

[ortcloud]

I'm not sure which paper you are referring to, but I presume these were their parabiosis studies? The last paper I see on Pubmed with their names is from 2019-- PMID: 31125255

 

The most telling aspect of that paper is this--

 

 

And Elevian says this--

 

 

I don't see anything wrong with Elevian per se, though their website shows nothing out of the preclinical stage. Nor do I see any results for trials on humans in their patent applications (though the first one is so massively stuffed with boilerplate I could have missed it.) Do you have any links showing great results using gdf11?

 

They initially used parabiosis and that worked, then they isolated the gdf11 protein and used that. I can look for the papers. The conflicting studies on various gdf11 papers comes down to dosing. The window is very narrow and researchers just overdid it.
 

[Turnbuckle]

They initially used parabiosis and that worked, then they isolated the gdf11 protein and used that. I can look for the papers. The conflicting studies on various gdf11 papers comes down to dosing. The window is very narrow and researchers just overdid it.
 

 

 

There's everything under the sun in blood, so it's difficult to accept that gdf11 is responsible without studies using actual gdf11. Extracellular vesicles emitted by stem cells are known to have rejuvenating properties, for instance. These can be found in the blood, and it can be expected that the amounts would fall with aging as stem cell pools are depleted.

[ortcloud]

There's everything under the sun in blood, so it's difficult to accept that gdf11 is responsible without studies using actual gdf11. Extracellular vesicles emitted by stem cells are known to have rejuvenating properties, for instance. These can be found in the blood, and it can be expected that the amounts would fall with aging as stem cell pools are depleted.

 

Right, which is why they isolated it and retested it to verify it is the GDF11, I will look for the paper

[Rocket]

Perhaps because the research didn't pan out? Exogenous GDF11 induces cardiac and skeletal muscle dysfunction and wasting, according to this paper.

100% correct. People need to be cautious about this stuff. I used it. Others used it with my same results which = 0.

Its a myostatin analogue. Its going to have detrimental affects on muscle and it may not be limited to skeletal muscle.

If you want to experiment with growth factors I would caution people to proven things like hgh secretogogues. But people on this site seem to think ( a large swath of people ) that hgh is detrimental.

GDF11 has been effectively discredited by people smarter than I.

Edited by Rocket, 03 September 2019 - 01:59 AM.

[dlewis1453]

I have been researching GDF11 for the past half a year or so, so this thread is timely. GDF11 is complex and the research is still in its infancy, so I hope the following information can be of benefit. The following is based on my research of GDF11 and some conversations I have had with GDF11 users. 

 

I believe the existing evidence does show overall that GDF11 has a rejuvenating effect on the body by restoring the body's stem cells to a more youthful state. Scientists still aren’t sure where GDF11 is made in the body, but the hypothalamus seems the most likely candidate. GDF11 is found in all mammals, which would suggest that it serves some important function. I think we will see a lot of interesting research coming from this area in the near future.

 

 Having said that, I do not think that GDF11 is something that should be casually taken without a proper dosing protocol, nor do I think it is safe to acquire GDF11 from just any online vendor, for the reasons I will explain below. GDF11 appears to be an extremely powerful molecule that, like insulin or T3, can help or harm depending on its dosage.

 

For a list of links to the current research, visit the Wikipedia page on GDF11. The page cites dozens of scientific studies, which are a good starting point for research. Several of these studies show positive effects from GDF11 administered in isolation. Some additional research has been released that may not yet be included on the Wikipedia page, so I recommend a search on one of the scientific paper databases or on google scholar. 

 

Before I continue, I believe it is important to address the mixed results that some of the initial research on GDF11 has produced, as well as the likely reasons for these mixed results:
 

1. Measuring GDF11 – During youth, about 90% of GDF11 is stored in the platelets, and this is where GDF11 has its effect. GDF11 levels in serum increase with age, while GDF11 in platelets decreases with age. Studies must be careful while measuring GDF11 to distinguish between serum and platelets. Several studies have failed to make this distinction.
    
2. Similarity to Myostatin – GDF11 has a molecular structure that is very similar to Myostatin (GDF8). Myostatin levels are 500 times greater in the body than GDF11 levels. Consequently, insensitive GDF11 assays will mistakenly pick up Myostatin.
    
3. Dosage sensitivity – Several studies have shown negative results from GDF11 administration. These studies dosed the rats with large amounts of GDF11. In large doses GDF11 cross binds to myostatin receptors, which negates the beneficial effects and can cause muscle wasting. GDF11, like other powerful substances in the body such as Insulin, IGF-1, or T3, has negative effects when administered in excess.

 

Therefore, to get an accurate picture of GDF11’s potential benefits, a study must (1) measure GDF11 in the right place, (2) measure GDF11 accurately, and (3) dose GDF11 in appropriate amounts.

 

If someone is planning to supplement with GDF11, I strongly recommend they do lots of research, and pay a visit to the website gdf11rejuvenation.com. Steve Perry, the first known person to supplement with GDF11, manages a growing group of individuals that take GDF11. Steve is adamant that careful tracking of biomarkers along with occasional lab tests is essential for successful GDF11 administration, especially at the beginning while people are initially discovering their ideal dosage. Young people tend to require much less GDF11 than old people, non-smokers require less than smokers, etc. However, everyone’s GDF11 dosage is slightly different. Furthermore, the dosage amount can change with time. The dosing starts in the pg/ml range - miniscule! The amount of GDF11 in the body is small, perhaps because GDF11 only needs to interact with stem cells, and stem cells are a fraction of all the cells in the body. Steve has on his website an informative paper on the science behind GDF11 supplementation as well as a description of his results from self-administering GDF11 for several years. He also has a writeup with some testimonials from GDF11 users available for download.

 

You may be wondering why bother supplementing with GDF11 if it requires such careful dosing and can have negative effects when dosed excessively? Besides the results from Steve Perry and his cohort, I have communicated with a few GDF11 users, and they have seen significant improvements in the following areas, verified whenever possible with lab tests: (1) Heart rate variability, (2) Resting heart rate,(3) Blood pressure,(4) Reaction time, (5) Epigenetic age, (6) Immune markers, (7) Increased energy and strength, (8) Increased cardiovascular health, (9) Increased muscle mass / improved body composition, (10) Skin elasticity, (11) Inflammatory markers, (12) Hemoglobin, (13) Prostate size, (14) sharper vision & smell, (15) gray hair reversal.

 

The greater the age of the user, the greater the benefit they receive from GDF11, on average. Someone who is already fit and muscular and is taking anabolic substances or growth hormone likely won’t experience an improvement in body composition and strength from GDF11, but they may still benefit in the other areas. The above benefits, and the fact that older users experience them more profoundly than younger users, seems to agree with the theory that GDF11 is rejuvenating and stimulating stem cells.

 

I hope this information has helped someone. GDF11 is a young, complicated, and dynamic area of research so I thought it was important for me to share. Although, if you are going to supplement with GDF11, I think to be safe you should buy your GDF11 from the most reputable and professional supplier possible, such as an official research chemical supplier, even if this means spending extra money. The dosage amounts are so small, even a small order of GDF11 will last you for a while. As I discussed, GDF11 dosing must be precise and carefully monitored. It would be a shame if you received a bunk product and then wrote off GDF11 as useless or if you received an improperly labeled vial of GDF11 and injected more than you intended to.

 

Edited by dlewis1453, 03 September 2019 - 08:25 PM.

[Rocket]

I and others followed Steve's dosages recommended amounts. Still no positive effects at all. I am very experienced with dosing supplements and peptides.

Concurrently with gdf11 supplementation I developed bad heartburn after a trouble free lifetime.

Be forewarned.

If people are looking for a rejuvenating peptides, stick to bpc157 and hgh secretogogues. Don't roll the dice with your health on this one. Just my advice from experience.

Turnbuckle has some good advice in his threads as well with stearic acid and c60.

Edited by Rocket, 04 September 2019 - 12:37 AM.

[dlewis1453]

I and others followed Steve's dosages recommended amounts. Still no positive effects at all. I am very experienced with dosing supplements and peptides.

Concurrently with gdf11 supplementation I developed bad heartburn after a trouble free lifetime.

Be forewarned.

If people are looking for a rejuvenating peptides, stick to bpc157 and hgh secretogogues. Don't roll the dice with your health on this one. Just my advice from experience.

Turnbuckle has some good advice in his threads as well with stearic acid and c60.

 

According to Steve, heartburn is one of the most common side effects of excessive GDF11, so its possible you were over doing it. He experienced heartburn initially and then reduced his dosage until he no longer felt it. The silver lining to this is that your heartburn  could be a sign that what you injected was actual GDF11 and not some bunk  product. 

 

I believe you have mentioned that you are a middle aged bodybuilder. The benefits that you would theoretically feel from GDF11, as a middle aged healthy and fit person, would likely not  be as potent as the effects of hgh inducing peptides. If you were overdosing GDF11, then you may not have felt any benefit at all. 

 

From what I have seen from Steve's group, there is a large number of people benefiting from GDF11 and carefully documenting their progress with daily biomarker analysis and regular lab tests. It seems extremely diligent and consistent for a DIY project. This is promising enough to at least get my interest and inspire me to research the science further. 

[ortcloud]

After 6 months of GDF11 use I have had positive benefits. The dosing range is extremely narrow. I took 100pg or 100 trillionths of a grams. Some of the doses used by others were 100 to 1000 times higher, at that range it can mimic myostatin and have negative effects. Steve had the dose wrong for many years. He has only recently figured out the optimal dose. I am glad I waited until now to take it  because had I taken it earlier I would have followed the same incorrect doses used before and probably failed like the others.

[dlewis1453]

After 6 months of GDF11 use I have had positive benefits. The dosing range is extremely narrow. I took 100pg or 100 trillionths of a grams. Some of the doses used by others were 100 to 1000 times higher, at that range it can mimic myostatin and have negative effects. Steve had the dose wrong for many years. He has only recently figured out the optimal dose. I am glad I waited until now to take it because had I taken it earlier I would have followed the same incorrect doses used before and probably failed like the others.

Very interesting. Can you elaborate on your benefits?

[Rorororo]

After 6 months of GDF11 use I have had positive benefits. The dosing range is extremely narrow. I took 100pg or 100 trillionths of a grams. Some of the doses used by others were 100 to 1000 times higher, at that range it can mimic myostatin and have negative effects. Steve had the dose wrong for many years. He has only recently figured out the optimal dose. I am glad I waited until now to take it  because had I taken it earlier I would have followed the same incorrect doses used before and probably failed like the others.

 

 

Any side effects.  How did you dilute it?  I want to try this!

[aribadabar]

How did you dilute it?  

 

1 vial of GDF11 is usually 5mcg or 5 000 000pg.

You dilute the 5ug in 1ml bac water. 

You take 5 units/ticks on a U-100 insulin syringe (0.05ml) of the solution which is 250 000pg and dilute it with 9.95ml bac water yielding 25 000pg per 1 ml in soluton #2.

You take 5 units of solution #2 and dilute it in another 9.95ml bac water yielding 2500pg per ml in solution #3

You inject 4 units/ticks (0.04ml) of the final solution for achieving 100pg dose.

Edited by aribadabar, 24 April 2020 - 02:57 PM.

[ortcloud]

Any side effects.  How did you dilute it?  I want to try this!

 

It is tricky to dose, I would strongly suggest you research it as much as possible before experimenting with it.

 

Watch all of steve perrys videos to learn more about dosing. There is a loading phase and then maintenance

and you have to track your biomarkers to see when you need to transition.

[DJSwarm]

It looks like GDF11 is all about restoring "youthful" levels. If one is young, say <50, and already exercises and eats right/does CR, which seem to naturally raise GDF11 levels, and doesn't abuse alcohol... GDF!! supplementation is likely to just cause overload with out much benefit as Rocket describes.  As keeps getting mentioned, this is one with a narrow benefit window and overload causes side effects and possibly damage if pushed.

 

The people who seem to really benefit also seem older and more sedentary. Based on what I'm reading I don't think I'd try this if <50 without reason to believe I had a GDF11 deficit for some reason. It is definitely not like an anabolic steroid from what I've seen. The lifting crew seem like the ones least likely to benefit from early adoption here and overload could push into cross binding with GDF8 which would not be good for muscle mass.