27 replies to this topic

[MikeDC]

Pterostilbene increases LDL and Triglycerides. It is junk.
So dump basis and take Pure Niagen.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4099343/

[Supierce]

Talk about cherry-picking your studies! Here - try this link instead:

 

https://scholar.goog...t=1,46&as_vis=1

 

[MikeDC]

There is only one clinical trial completed and it showed pterostilbene is bad for metabolism. Maybe it will help with cancer. Someone needs to start a trial.

https://clinicaltria...&state1=&recrs=

Edited by MikeDC, 26 July 2017 - 02:54 PM.

[able]

It raised LDL somewhat.  

 

It lowered blood pressure by a significant amount.  

 

Don't think it's really fair to say it is "junk", and "bad for metabolism" based on that.

[MikeDC]

It raised blood pressure for normal people and lowered for people with high blood pressure. They choose not to report triglycerides change in the paper. You can read the data from the clinical trials page.

[Asor]

im not even convinced that LDL is reallly "bad", the cholesterol thing is way more complicated than the way we've been told for years.

 

 

[MikeDC]

LDL is not bad. It is necessary for life. Higher than normal levels means your metabolic state is not in perfect condition. High triglycerides generally result from eating too much carbohydrates and considered bad. When you see both increasing without change in eating, it means your body is not functioning as good as before.

[MikeDC]

The range of triglycerides is much higher compared to placebo. Who want to see his triglycerides goes higher by a few hundreds points? Scary!

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[tintinet]

Been taking over 600 mg pterostilbene/day for years. Recent labs: triglicerides 55 mg/dl, ldl 43 mg/dl, hdl 74 mg/dl.

[MikeDC]

Your LDL is too low. Hormones are made from LDL.

[Benko]

Been taking over 600 mg pterostilbene/day for years. Recent labs: triglicerides 55 mg/dl, ldl 43 mg/dl, hdl 74 mg/dl.

 

Can I ask why you are taking that much?  Did the pterostilbene and whatever else you are taking produce significant changes in your lipids?

 

Were you taking lots of resveratrol?

 

Thanks.

[tintinet]

I used to take a lot  of resveratrol.  Thought pterostilbene might be better. Hasn't changed my lipid profile at all. Been like this for decades.

 

 

Been taking over 600 mg pterostilbene/day for years. Recent labs: triglicerides 55 mg/dl, ldl 43 mg/dl, hdl 74 mg/dl.

 

Can I ask why you are taking that much?  Did the pterostilbene and whatever else you are taking produce significant changes in your lipids?

 

Were you taking lots of resveratrol?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[MikeDC]

Elysium is shipping basis that is pure white. Niagen is brown as Nicotinamide Riboside chloo salt. So what is in basis is no longer Niagen.

For what it is worth, here is another exert from the note from Elysium: "While the specific Basis formulation and the amount of each ingredient have not changed, this new production process has allowed us to take an exceptional product and make it even purer. We also have eliminated color variations and can now provide a consistently white final product, as you may have seen with your most recent shipment. This reflects our ongoing commitment to being a trusted source for our customers by continually exceeding the highest standards in the industry."

[bluemoon]

Elysium is shipping basis that is pure white. Niagen is brown as Nicotinamide Riboside chloo salt. So what is in basis is no longer Niagen. 

 

Elysium still uses NR as their website indicates.

[MikeDC]

It is Nicotinamide Riboside alright. But pure NR is not stable and is not effective. Niagen is NR chloride.

[bluemoon]

It is Nicotinamide Riboside alright. But pure NR is not stable and is not effective. Niagen is NR chloride.

 

Evidence that Elysium's NR is ineffective?

 

If Elysium is no longer tied to ChromaDex then great news.

 

ChromaDex's CEO made that strange statement at the last share holder meeting: They are getting Niagen off the market by letting it run out and maybe even buying some back so that they are the sole provider - or maybe not as they may let a few vendors sell it. Chromadex definitely has a great strategy. Perhaps.

[MikeDC]

Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride was intentionally made to stabilize NR so it can be absorbed without breaking down. If you read the patents, you should be able to find the reason why chloride was added. All studies so far have used Niagen. So NR without Chloride is unproven. Elysium can't use Niagen for their clinical trials and then sell pure NR. That is fraud. They need to do another trial with pure NR to prove it is still effective.

[MikeDC]

Looks like Elysium is using counterfeit Chinese NR in the new Basis. The following was posted on yahoo CDXC conversations.
Time to cancel Basis subscription.

"So I am looking at the new BASIS plastic jar here this morning, which belongs to a friend of mine who has an annual subscription with Elysium Health. The ChromaDex patent numbers are not listed on the side of the jar anymore. Inside the jar are white capsules, instead of light tan colored capsules. The jar doesn't say "Made in USA", or have an FDA approval logo."

[able]

Good point.  Seems they believe the Chromadex patent won't hold up, and are making their own, or buying elsewhere.

 

Maybe from chinese supplier?  But not sure it's fair to call it "counterfeit".  They are not claiming it is Niagen, or something that it is not.

[msearch444]

Been taking over 600 mg pterostilbene/day for years. Recent labs: triglicerides 55 mg/dl, ldl 43 mg/dl, hdl 74 mg/dl.

 

 

Wow!!! That is a ton of P'tero!  i do 150mg per day for years and i was about to say my Cholesterol readings are amazeballs - 

 

Couple of questions:

 - Where do you get your p'tero and where did you come up with 600 mg being an ideal dose? (sorry sort of a newbie to the board)

[tintinet]

Been taking over 600 mg pterostilbene/day for years. Recent labs: triglicerides 55 mg/dl, ldl 43 mg/dl, hdl 74 mg/dl.

Wow!!! That is a ton of P'tero! i do 150mg per day for years and i was about to say my Cholesterol readings are amazeballs -

Couple of questions:
- Where do you get your p'tero and where did you come up with 600 mg being an ideal dose? (sorry sort of a newbie to the board)

Get my pterostilbene from various sources. Sometimes from Amazon, if pricing is decent. Took 600 mg rather by accident. It's likely serious overkill - I have no idea what an optimal dose might be.

[MikeDC]

Been taking over 600 mg pterostilbene/day for years. Recent labs: triglicerides 55 mg/dl, ldl 43 mg/dl, hdl 74 mg/dl.

Wow!!! That is a ton of P'tero! i do 150mg per day for years and i was about to say my Cholesterol readings are amazeballs -

Couple of questions:
- Where do you get your p'tero and where did you come up with 600 mg being an ideal dose? (sorry sort of a newbie to the board)

Get my pterostilbene from various sources. Sometimes from Amazon, if pricing is decent. Took 600 mg rather by accident. It's likely serious overkill - I have no idea what an optimal dose might be.

I am sorry to say it. But your triglycerides and LDL are not normal. Are you eating organic grass?

[Michael]

Talk about cherry-picking your studies! Here - try this link instead:

 

https://scholar.goog...t=1,46&as_vis=1

One can't respond to the selective picking of cherries by taking the entire year's fruit crop and dumping it on people's heads. Do you have any specific studies that would refute the specific finding of Mike's specific study?

[Michael]

Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride was intentionally made to stabilize NR so it can be absorbed without breaking down.

No, it was not. It was made because pure NR is extremely hygroscopic and would degrade in the capsule.

 

If you read the patents, you should be able to find the reason why chloride was added.

Indeed you can — so maybe you should read them before making claims about their contents.

 

All studies so far have used Niagen. So NR without Chloride is unproven. Elysium can't use Niagen for their clinical trials and then sell pure NR. That is fraud. They need to do another trial with pure NR to prove it is still effective.

There is no basis for this claim in biomedical science. NR is a defined molecule, not a botanical, and this is biochemistry, not celebrity collectibles. If the salt is soluble, it will behave in exactly the same way.

[Michael]

 

Been taking over 600 mg pterostilbene/day for years. Recent labs: triglicerides 55 mg/dl, ldl 43 mg/dl, hdl 74 mg/dl.

I am sorry to say it. But your triglycerides and LDL are not normal. Are you eating organic grass?

They're only not "normal" in the sense that it's "normal" to have a lousy lipid profile. "Goal LDL (to prevent atherosclerotic plaque formation) is between 50-70 mg/dL." — levels which are normal in hunter-gatherers — and TG of 40-60 is perfectly normal in people on CR or ketogenic diets.

[tintinet]

Been taking over 600 mg pterostilbene/day for years. Recent labs: triglicerides 55 mg/dl, ldl 43 mg/dl, hdl 74 mg/dl.

I am sorry to say it. But your triglycerides and LDL are not normal. Are you eating organic grass?

They're only not "normal" in the sense that it's "normal" to have a lousy lipid profile. "Goal LDL (to prevent atherosclerotic plaque formation) is between 50-70 mg/dL." — levels which are normal in hunter-gatherers — and TG of 40-60 is perfectly normal in people on CR or ketogenic diets.

My lipid profile has been pretty consistent for many years, as has my diet (aimed at CR and ketogenisis, although it strays off course from time to time.)

[MikeDC]

LDL causes atherosclerotic plauge is still debatable. Recent studies seems to indicate low NAD+ and Sirtuins and inflammation are the real cause

[MikeDC]

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ic plaque sirt1