25 replies to this topic

[orbitolina]

Hello,

 

I've been deficient in various minerals for quite a while. Mg and K are a fact. I also suspect calcium to be low but my GP only tests serum Ca, and as I'm currently too high in vitamin D, serum Ca levels might be elevated. I take vitamin D because I get sunburned from just 15 minutes in the sun. Not that there's every much sun here.

 

Anyway, Mg. I'm having a big problem finding a supplement that works for me, being in the UK. I had a type of magnesium malate that kept my symptoms at bay for a few hours at least. But that's not available anymore, and the one I have now doesn't seem to contain a big amount of elemental Mg (clearly a mislabeling on the package) as it doesn't do much. It states: 400mg Magnesium (as magnesium malate); 100% daily value. I just put 10 pills on the scale, and the recommended dose of 2 (400mg) comes down to 4grams. Hmm..

 

So right, I need something else. In stores in the UK I only seem to be able to only get veyr low dose Mg, and Mg citrate. One tablespoon citrate gives me stomach cramps and diarrhea and I don't seem to be able to build up a tolerance. Plus I'm doubtful about the acidic taste and the effect on my teeth. I'm also extremely short of money. My diet is rich in Mg, and the tap water I drink all through the day isn't too bad. Still it's not enough.

 

Potassium: tried to raise it with food, but also didn't do anything. Any suggestion there, also considering the different types of potassium available? How much should I be taking?

 

Next to day to day supplements that hopefully raise the suspected very low cellular level again I also need supplements that I can take along while running to equalize the effect of sweating, thus something that is water soluble. Any suggestions for that?

 

Thanks a lot,

orbitolina.

[pamojja]

I'm in the same boat of deficiencies. However, through the years I found all Mg compound give loose stool in high enough doses, and that the same elemental Mg content of a compound counts, against pain-full muscle-cramps. So for me Mg-oxide works just as well as any other. For Potassium I use Potassium bicarbonate, citrate and chloride (important to disolve the powders well in enough water). And finally a Mg Mineralwater with 1 g of Mg in one liter of water: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donat_Mg

[orbitolina]

I'm in the same boat of deficiencies. However, through the years I found all Mg compound give loose stool in high enough doses, and that the same elemental Mg content of a compound counts, against pain-full muscle-cramps. So for me Mg-oxide works just as well as any other. For Potassium I use Potassium bicarbonate, citrate and chloride (important to disolve the powders well in enough water). And finally a Mg Mineralwater with 1 g of Mg in one liter of water: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donat_Mg

 

Hello pamojja,

 

and thanks for your answer. I know that you have a great selection of minerals in Austria. Wish the same was true here. Also, the mineral waters here are very poor in Mg, thus tap water will have to do - which is also fairly soft. I only seem to be able to get 100-250mg magnesium pills here, and the amount of elemental Mg is so small that I'd need to buy a new pot every few days to be symptom-free.

 

My deficiencies really started up when I moved away from an area with extremely hard water. Imagine a limestone layer on top of your tea! It's great that the shower is easy to clean and the water cooker survives for more than 3 months, but it certainly didn't do me well.

 

I really consider giving Mg Chloride a try, maybe as ionic Mg drops (400mg - that would be about 64mg elemental?), or as powder. At least it's soluble and I could put it into my running water.

 

What is the use of the different kinds of potassium? Again I only seem to be able to get Potassium chloride within the country and would need to order other types from abroad. All not so easy if you're on a very tight budget.

[Razor444]

Epsom salts. The Mg is absorbed transdermally.

[orbitolina]

Epsom salts. The Mg is absorbed transdermally.

 

Hmm.. there is no peer-reviewed study that actually tries to quantify this. I found one badly executed study consisting of spray, and foot paths combined. The study does not mention what the concentration of Mg in the water is, nor how long the soaking. And the spray dosage is a multitude of the one mentioned on usual bottles. The unusual absorbed analysing methodology has not been properly cited and explained, and there are more problems with this. I'm honestly not sure how useful it really is, especially considering I'd need to buy a new bottle every few days, and it's super expensive.

[Razor444]

 

Epsom salts. The Mg is absorbed transdermally.

 

Hmm.. there is no peer-reviewed study that actually tries to quantify this. I found one badly executed study consisting of spray, and foot paths combined. The study does not mention what the concentration of Mg in the water is, nor how long the soaking. And the spray dosage is a multitude of the one mentioned on usual bottles. The unusual absorbed analysing methodology has not been properly cited and explained, and there are more problems with this. I'm honestly not sure how useful it really is, especially considering I'd need to buy a new bottle every few days, and it's super expensive.

 

 

There was a study on r/nootropics a while ago. You could dig around there -- using the search function.

[pamojja]

I know that you have a great selection of minerals in Austria. Wish the same was true here. Also, the mineral waters here are very poor in Mg, thus tap water will have to do - which is also fairly soft. I only seem to be able to get 100-250mg magnesium pills here, and the amount of elemental Mg is so small that I'd need to buy a new pot every few days to be symptom-free.

 
Actually Mg-donat water is Slovenian - all other mineral waters available here are shitty when it comes to Mg-content too - and is marketed EU wide. https://www.lifeextensioneurope.com/ sells larger capsules, that is, if you tolerate Mg-oxide.
 

What is the use of the different kinds of potassium? Again I only seem to be able to get Potassium chloride within the country and would need to order other types from abroad. All not so easy if you're on a very tight budget.

 
Just gave different viable examples. For example, found only by accident that some local pharmacies carry potassium bicarbonate for € 7,- per 100 grams. While on the other hand potassium chloride isn't even available pure (unless ordering through the net), but as minor addition to sodium chloride only. Get mine from iherb.

[Darryl]

2 medium potatoes (500 g) and 40 g of mixed nuts: 3000 mg K, 240 mg Mg, 700 kcal.

 

It's not difficult to obtain required nutrients from whole foods, and if your diet doesn't provide estimated average requirements (EAR), you can do better. Save your supplement budget for compounds that can't be obtained in meaningful amounts from your diet

[pamojja]

2 medium potatoes (500 g) and 40 g of mixed nuts: 3000 mg K, 240 mg Mg, 700 kcal.

 

It's not difficult to obtain required nutrients from whole foods, and if your diet doesn't provide estimated average requirements (EAR), you can do better. Save your supplement budget for compounds that can't be obtained in meaningful amounts from your diet

 

That's all so easily said. With my severe Mg deficiency and extensive testing (serum, whole blood and hair tissue) over the years I learned these electrolytes are intricately interwoven. Not only do I need ridiculous high supplemental amounts of Mg, Na and K just to keep healthy levels. I also do get about 4.2 g  of K, 2 g of Na and 0.6 g of Mg per day from food for years.

 

You're obviously only considering healthy non-deficient populations.

 

 

Edited by pamojja, 31 July 2017 - 05:31 PM.

[orbitolina]

2 medium potatoes (500 g) and 40 g of mixed nuts: 3000 mg K, 240 mg Mg, 700 kcal.

 

It's not difficult to obtain required nutrients from whole foods, and if your diet doesn't provide estimated average requirements (EAR), you can do better. Save your supplement budget for compounds that can't be obtained in meaningful amounts from your diet

 

700kcal is nearly half of my daily calorie allowance, being a smallish, light woman of a certain age. I could not spend half the day on two potatoes and a few nuts. But that's besides the question. I currently take a much higher dose of Mg, and only are mostly symptom-free for a few hours at a time, until I take the next pill and it's absorbed. Every morning I can hardly move. And every blood test done comes back as deficient again, regardless of what I do. Yes, it needs to be investigated, and it is. It's just not going that fast. Likewise, taking care of potassium with diet has so far not done anything. I've not tried supplements there yet.

 

I only learned a few days ago that my Vitamin D was a bit too high. Thus it's quite likely that calcium is actually too low as well.

[orbitolina]

 

2 medium potatoes (500 g) and 40 g of mixed nuts: 3000 mg K, 240 mg Mg, 700 kcal.

 

It's not difficult to obtain required nutrients from whole foods, and if your diet doesn't provide estimated average requirements (EAR), you can do better. Save your supplement budget for compounds that can't be obtained in meaningful amounts from your diet

 

That's all so easily said. With my severe Mg deficiency and extensive testing (serum, whole blood and hair tissue) over the years I learned these electrolytes are intricately interwoven. Not only do I need ridiculous high supplemental amounts of Mg, Na and K just to keep healthy levels. I also do get about 4.2 g  of K, 2 g of Na and 0.6 g of Mg per day from food for years.

 

You're obviously only considering healthy non-deficient populations.

 

 

Yes, that's what I mean. Did you ever find out why you're deficient or if it might be related to other health issues? If I may ask, is it an absorption problem or one of peeing the stuff out again? I had a 24hrs urine collection and it came back as too much Mg in it, but my GP doesn't know how to interpret this and if this might be influenced by the Mg supplements I took. Well, I know now that the Mg I took is rubbish and only contains a tiny amount of Mg. Poor labeling :(
 

[orbitolina]

 

I know that you have a great selection of minerals in Austria. Wish the same was true here. Also, the mineral waters here are very poor in Mg, thus tap water will have to do - which is also fairly soft. I only seem to be able to get 100-250mg magnesium pills here, and the amount of elemental Mg is so small that I'd need to buy a new pot every few days to be symptom-free.

 
Actually Mg-donat water is Slovenian - all other mineral waters available here are shitty when it comes to Mg-content too - and is marketed EU wide. https://www.lifeextensioneurope.com/ sells larger capsules, that is, if you tolerate Mg-oxide.
 

What is the use of the different kinds of potassium? Again I only seem to be able to get Potassium chloride within the country and would need to order other types from abroad. All not so easy if you're on a very tight budget.

 
Just gave different viable examples. For example, found only by accident that some local pharmacies carry potassium bicarbonate for € 7,- per 100 grams. While on the other hand potassium chloride isn't even available pure (unless ordering through the net), but as minor addition to sodium chloride only. Get mine from iherb.

 

 

Here you cannot buy anything at pharmacies unfortunately, and all you can get in vitamin and health stores is of such low dose and quality that it's useless. Not too keen on ordering from the US as every order gets stopped by customs, and the total costs go up big time with that, plus of course shipping. It's not easy if you're on a very tight budget.

[pamojja]

Did you ever find out why you're deficient or if it might be related to other health issues? If I may ask, is it an absorption problem or one of peeing the stuff out again? I had a 24hrs urine collection and it came back as too much Mg in it, but my GP doesn't know how to interpret this and if this might be influenced by the Mg supplements I took. Well, I know now that the Mg I took is rubbish and only contains a tiny amount of Mg. Poor labeling :(

 

All of it: numerous serious health issues, absorption problems and peeing the stuff out.

[pamojja]

... all you can get in vitamin and health stores is of such low dose and quality that it's useless. Not too keen on ordering from the US as every order gets stopped by customs, and the total costs go up big time with that, plus of course shipping. It's not easy if you're on a very tight budget.

 

https://www.myprotei...e/10530171.html

https://www.bulkpowd...te-tablets.html

https://www.naturesb...nesium-c32_pg1/

http://healthmonthly.co.uk/

 

..all in the UK.

[orbitolina]

 

Did you ever find out why you're deficient or if it might be related to other health issues? If I may ask, is it an absorption problem or one of peeing the stuff out again? I had a 24hrs urine collection and it came back as too much Mg in it, but my GP doesn't know how to interpret this and if this might be influenced by the Mg supplements I took. Well, I know now that the Mg I took is rubbish and only contains a tiny amount of Mg. Poor labeling :(

 

All of it: numerous serious health issues, absorption problems and peeing the stuff out.

 

 

Ouch! It seems likely that it's something similar for me. Annoyingly, my GP wants to decide whether to get me to a gastro or a specialist for peeing the stuff out. Both doesn't seem to be possible in her book So if I manage to get her a urine sample with protein in it I get the other specialist, if not then the gastro. Difficult decision, especially as protein is present on an off (usually after workouts). Bloody NHS! Maybe I should add some protein powder, with lots of sugar to the sample. That will wake her up

 

With regards to the supplements you posted: I've seen most of them already. I cannot take Mg citrate for the usual citrate reasons. The Mg from Bulkpowders doesn't say how much elemental Mg is in them, but at least they state that 500mg is 26.5% of the recommended dose. Thus to get the recommended dose I'd need to take 4 a day, to feel normal at least 12. Thus a container with 60 lasts 5 days. The next one is again mainly citrate. One product mixes Mg and Ca. In the presence of both Ca is preferentally bound to stuff such as carbon and oxygen unless the molar concentration of Mg is substantially higher (actually, this is my daily work. Just not on living things). Thus this is useless. I did order some Doctor's Best now, from a different source (had not found this website before, so thanks!) so lets see if it works.

 

And I'm still considering trying Mg chloride. I can get flakes fairly cheaply and it's water solluble. Maybe that's a solution for my workouts.

Edited by orbitolina, 01 August 2017 - 09:23 AM.

[orbitolina]

Ok, seems like I found a Mg that works for me: doctor's best high absorption magnesium.

 

It's supposed to contain 200mg Mg in a 2000mg tablet of Mg. glycinate and something else. C4H8MgN2O4 and lysinate chelate. No idea what the second is, but the Mg glycinate should be about 15% elemental Mg?

Well, it seems to work for me. One in the morning and afternoon and I'm fairly symptomfree for now. it's better than the rubbish one I bought before accidentally with approximately 50-60mg of elemental Mg :( Not surprised it did nothing.

 

[Multivitz]

Boron is the missing link.

[pamojja]

Boron is the missing link.

 

Adding higher doses of Boron for years didn't do anything beneficial in respect to lowering my high daily Mg needs.
 

[Multivitz]

Oh, in that case you must try lugals iodine and the companion nutrients. That gets all the heavy elements out of the cells. You may need other micro minerals for a month or two.
I've been taking Magnesium supplements for about thirty years, not all the time, but I've used them all except pico type. Methylation is important, I did it before it became a popular study. Yin Yang is a system of study. You sound sanpaku.
With inorganic mineral supplements they need to get burnt/hydrolysed by the stomach acids or they end up eaten by the biome and made into some other compound. Are you addicted to the compounds? P5P zinc and vit C are very much needed to produce stomach acid properly, but you knew that? Mg increases B vitamin absorbsion, and protects DNA. Too much is never a bad thing, until the liver runs out of oil and B vitamins.
The trouble is symptoms of a yin nature can be caused by imbalances of yang. Too high, too low can cause same symptom. Earth, wind, fire, and water are systems of understanding very much valid today.
Having blood charged with electrolytes is addictive, it causes a cancer risk for some! I personally have seen some fatal cases.

Edited by Multivitz, 06 October 2017 - 02:31 AM.

[Multivitz]

Transmutation is a reality, but you'll find Wikipedia gets the hell put into it by bots and other fools.
Elemental transmutation in nature is well documented. You can find it on the web, but it gets poo pooed by the repeaters, and by brain washed graduates at every opportunity. I couldn't believe it in the nineties the propaganda was that strong. Now with the quadrivium, it's plain to see.

[pamojja]

Oh, in that case you must try lugals iodine and the companion nutrients. That gets all the heavy elements out of the cells. You may need other micro minerals for a month or two.
I've been taking Magnesium supplements for about thirty years, not all the time, but I've used them all except pico type. Methylation is important, I did it before it became a popular study. Yin Yang is a system of study. You sound sanpaku.
With inorganic mineral supplements they need to get burnt/hydrolysed by the stomach acids or they end up eaten by the biome and made into some other compound. Are you addicted to the compounds? P5P zinc and vit C are very much needed to produce stomach acid properly, but you knew that? Mg increases B vitamin absorbsion, and protects DNA. Too much is never a bad thing, until the liver runs out of oil and B vitamins.
The trouble is symptoms of a yin nature can be caused by imbalances of yang. Too high, too low can cause same symptom. Earth, wind, fire, and water are systems of understanding very much valid today.
Having blood charged with electrolytes is addictive, it causes a cancer risk for some! I personally have seen some fatal cases.

 

Also took lugol drops, betain hcl, P5P, ascorbic acid, healthy fats, and all B vitamins for years. But my blood is still undercharged with electrolytes. Most seriously of Na and Mg.
 

[Benko]

 my blood is still undercharged with electrolytes. Most seriously of Na and Mg.
 

 

 

How do you know this?
 

[pamojja]

How do you know this?

 

By symptoms - most prominently having severe pain-full muscle cramps without at least 2 g/d of supplemental elemental Mg - as well as serum, whole blood and hair mineral analysis started 9 years ago.

 

edit: already mention in post nr. 9 of this thread.
 

Edited by pamojja, 06 October 2017 - 02:34 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Transmutation is a reality, but you'll find Wikipedia gets the hell put into it by bots and other fools.
Elemental transmutation in nature is well documented. You can find it on the web, but it gets poo pooed by the repeaters, and by brain washed graduates at every opportunity. I couldn't believe it in the nineties the propaganda was that strong. Now with the quadrivium, it's plain to see.

 

 

Yes, elemental transmutation is a reality.  It happens all the time through radioactive decay, neutron bombardment/capture, and nuclear fusion.  The sun is transmuting hydrogen to helium whilst we speak.  Nuclear reactions transmute one element to another all the time.  Radioactive radium will eventually transmute into stable lead given enough time.  But non-radioactive elements outside of nuclear reactors, nuclear bombs, or the sun do no transmute into other elements.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 06 October 2017 - 03:33 PM.

[Boopy!]

hmm I wonder if you have issues with thyroid or absorption,   or female issues?   Or maybe you are working out too hard?  I had cramping like that -- really badly -- when I was too thin,  working out too much (running long distance)  and lost my period for that time.   When women do this they mess up absorption of calcium because it has to do with not having enough estrogen -- and this is awful for the bones.   It's basically early menopause and I am going to have to check for osteopenia.   Unfortunately in the U.S.  I literally have had to BEG my doctor for even rudimentary tests.   They only care if it's too late and everything's permanently screwed.   I get the impression doctors you've been going to at least put in an effort,  so that's good.   if I were you I would find out why what is going in is not getting absorbed as it should.   Keep us informed!

[bunsw]

orbitolina,

Have you ever considered buying your magnesium and potassium in bulk from purebulk.com or bulksupplements.com? Magnesium Glycinate is dirt cheap and has pretty much no taste so you don't even need to encapsulate it. If you want to dose several times a day you can buy little plastic containers at a dollar store in the crafts section and carry those with you.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned making magnesium oil. It's just magnesium chloride bath flakes dissolved in boiling water and rubbed on the torso until dried and then the residual white powder can be washed off. Some so called experts claim this is far more effective than oral ingestion. A week ago a pharmacist told me that almost zero magnesium can be absorbed through the skin. I don't know either way.

Also, you can make magnesium bicarbonate water (see youtube) using mag. hydroxide and seltzer and you can add potassium bicarbonate to it as well. This is supposed to be a healthier way of adding bicarbonate to the body than swallowing sodium bicarbonate (baking soda).

I'm planning on making my own mag. Oil and mag. bicarbonate water when I get my next order from purebulk.com.

I had been taking at least 1000 mg per day of various magnesium types in capsules and still tested low so I bought a capsule making machine and bulk powders and take 2000 mg a day. I want to try other methods of absorption to take the load off my bowls. I also started taking Calcium HMB and it seems to have the opposite affect on the bowls, so if you ultimately find out you have to take huge doses of oral mag. at least there are ways of countering the unwanted effects. And it's probably better to take some calcium with the magnesium anyway.