30 replies to this topic

[ketogeniclongevity]

I used to care about extending my lifespan through diet and supplements, but now all I want is to live another day. I'm scared of the urge to commitsuicide. When I get into a deep depression, it's so difficult. I'm tired of trying to learn how to live a normal life. Every day is a battle for me, but I need to believe in myself. I don't want to die. I'm tired of having bad days. I'm tired of having to fake smile. I hate depression. I have tried SSRIs but they haven't helped at all. St Johns Wort hasn't helped me either.

My depression started December of last year. I've had to quit my job last month because I'm so sick. 

Does anybody know what can help me? I feel like I'll never have a sunny day again.

[jack black]

any ketamine clinics near by? Do you have an appointment with a pdoc?

[tunt01]

Exercise.  Ketamine.  SSRI (wellbutrin, etc.)

[YoungSchizo]

Have you tried Nardil or Parnate, the response rate against depression is 80%

[Mind_Paralysis]

Hmm... do you have any contact with mental health professionals at the moment? Might be a stupid question, but if not, I truly recommend you try and contact your nearest clinic or psychiatrist.

Also, have you had ANY depressive episodes in the past? Any at all? Or is this entirely new, only creeping up on you in the last year or so?

Reason I'm asking, is because not very many whom haven't endured incredibly intense trauma, like war, rape, deadly assault and battery, actually develop such suicidal thoughts, unless there is also ANOTHER neuropsychiatric disease, dragging the individual down - as such, have you been evaluated for any of the following, which can cause suicidal thoughts?

BIPOLAR DISORDER (I recently read a review which showed that BD is the second greatest cause of suicide, only surpassed by schizophrenia)

ADHD

Autism

Borderline Personality Disorder

Have you ever suspected that something was different with you, compared to your peers, in the past? Or has anyone close to you, remarked anything like that?

Now, regarding how to treat this...

As Jack mentioned, Intravenous Ketamine Infusion is a very effective treatment for these kinds of thoughts - however... the effects are often temporary, only last for a few days, and then you have to go get another infusion - so it's difficult to use as a permanent maintenance-treatment - often however, these thoughts will abate when treated with a cocktail of other antidepressants, in between infusions.

I would recommend that you try and find a psychotherapist as soon as possible as well - the prognosis is generally better if one combines pharmacology and psychotherapy for someone with Suicidal Ideation - it should also be mentioned, that multiple antidepressants increase Suicidal thoughts the first few days, hence why you would need a psychotherapist to take the edge off the start of your treatment. (well, unless you get ketamine)

I would recommend you try a TCA - AMITRIPTYLINE as your next drug of choice - it works differently from SSRI's and has some evidence that it doesn't cause SI to the same extent as other AD's - some also claim that it's far more effective for patients whom do not respond to SSRI's, but that's not a given, mind you.

 

 

Another idea, is to enhance Amitriptyline with MEMANTINE - an NMDA-antagonist, since there is some evidence that it's this perticular action which makes Ketamine the gold standard for Suicidal Prevention - SI might actually be a somewhat different phenomenon than depression itself, which is theoretically treated by the AMPA-agonising properties of Ketamine. This hypothesis is strengthened by the findings that people with SI have increased activity in the NMDA-network, as a result of Quinolinic acid being higher than Kynurenic Acid (KYNA is the brains own naturally occuring NMDA-antagonist, and is also believed to be closely related to Schizophrenia - which is a bit odd, since in Schizophrenics, the ratio is REVERSED - yet, they still kill themselves more than anyone else... we do, however, know that NMDA-antagonists are helpful for the OTHER patient-groups whom kill themselves).

Also, please, call the USA National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at: 1-800-273-TALK [8255] as soon as possible - you need to speak to another human being who's trained to listen and talk to you in the best way possible.

References:

------------------

What is the treatment for Suicidal thoughts?

http://www.medicinen...ho_are_suicidal

 

 

Role of Inflammation in Suicide: From Mechanisms to Treatment

https://www.linkedin...velandy-manohar

 

Antidepressant use and risk of suicide and attempted suicide or self harm in people aged 20 to 64: cohort study using a primary care database

http://www.bmj.com/c...nt/350/bmj.h517
 

     Mirtazapine , venlafaxine, and trazodone  were associated with the highest rates of suicide and attempted suicide or self harm, but the number of suicide events was small leading to imprecise estimates.

 

So, stay away from the three drugs above, I guess? It's curious though - because I have read several notes about how Mirtazapine is considered one of the best AD's to try when a patient has Suicidal Ideation...
 

Onset of improvement and response to mirtazapine in depression: a multicenter naturalistic study of 4771 patients

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2426820/

The improvement of “suicidal thoughts” is rapid with mirtazapine, faster than that of “sadness”.

 

Ah-HAAH! I KNEW I read that...! It's curious though... how two big studies can find two so contrasting findings?

[jack black]

As Jack mentioned, Intravenous Ketamine Infusion is a very effective treatment for these kinds of thoughts - however... the effects are often temporary, only last for a few days, and then you have to go get another infusion - so it's difficult to use as a permanent maintenance-treatment - often however, these thoughts will abate when treated with a cocktail of other antidepressants, in between infusions.

 

 

I only wish i knew about ketamine clinics a year ago when a family member was going through suicide attempts. it was hell trying to keep her alive while she was already taking wellbutrin and seeing psychotherapy. the conventional psychiatry failed her.

I just googled for a ketamine clinic and found this. they claim their protocol/method is (supposedly) effective 3+ months.

not sure how many $$$$

 

Edited by jack black, 11 August 2017 - 10:40 PM.

[jaiho]

Restore Infusion, that sounds like marketing fluff.

 

OP, hang in there. Just hold onto the thought that how you feel now is temporary. It will get better. 

Pursue treatment aggressively, the MAOI suggestion is good, they are alot more effective than SSRIs.

Don't settle for anything less than feeling back to your old self. 

[normalizing]

ketogeniclongevity, werent you heavily on the ketogenic diet for quite a while as i remember? so that didnt do much but cause you even more severe depression, is that how i must understand this??

[hydrus]

low carb can cause depression

[jack black]

low carb can cause depression

Very true, when I tried to start Atkins diet, twice, I experienced sudden depression/weakness/tiredness. On the third try, I gradually decreased carbs to ketogenic levels. I simply could not do it cold turkey.

I believe I had carb addiction and was going through withdrawal.

[normalizing]

where do i get info on what to consume daily for keto diet? i know you have to consume fat and protein and no carbs but im not sure how to supplement such lifestyle since EVERYTHING around me is CARBS. literally, they are carbs  everywhere in the food stores or home

[Mind_Paralysis]

where do i get info on what to consume daily for keto diet? i know you have to consume fat and protein and no carbs but im not sure how to supplement such lifestyle since EVERYTHING around me is CARBS. literally, they are carbs  everywhere in the food stores or home

 

There are tons of resources online. Here's what I found from a quick google:

 

 

http://www.mycopenha...-i-get-started/

 

http://www.ditchthec...com/howtostart/

 

 

A small tip - bulk up on extra electrolytes, since because of liquid-loss from some of the carb food-stuffs, one seems to lose more electrolytes than normally, when transitioning to Keto-diet.

 

There's also the idea of you buying Butyrate or some other extremely short fat-chains - And then capping the powder, and using the caps to give your brain some extra energy during the transitioning - your brain will take an enormous hit for the first few weeks, turning you into a zombie - UNLESS...! You cheat, by using a compound which acts like ketone-bodies in your body, similar to sugar, but without being sugar.

 

I'll never understand why none of the LCHF-ers ever suggest this... seems like a no-brainer to give people a smooth transition.

[normalizing]

stink, that is very informative and i thank you for it. but it still remains unanswered, if the OP suffered this severe depression from keto diet, perhaps not transitioning well into it, or some other factors. because, as far as i know him, he used to promote the keto diet a lot and he claimed it was beneficial for him, only ending up with this depressing thread and then finding out he hasnt logged in for days....

[CWF1986]

Have you tried an SSRI in addition to a tricyclic antidepressant like nortriptyline?  The combined beneficial effect is much stronger than either alone.  Perhaps a tricyclic alone would do it for you.  

 

There's also the thought of combining an ssri and wellbutrin.  Buspar can be added to SSRIs.  There's Abilify which can be added to an ssri to make it more effective.

 

There's also MAOI's.  They can be combined with the NE selective tricyclics nortriptyline and desipramine and even low dose stimulants.

 

There's other atypical antidepressants I haven't mentioned, but the point is that you have many pharmacological options.

 

Don't dismiss therapy either.  The only problem with it is that it can really run up a bill and takes a lot of time and work.  

 

 

 

[Mind_Paralysis]

stink, that is very informative and i thank you for it. but it still remains unanswered, if the OP suffered this severe depression from keto diet, perhaps not transitioning well into it, or some other factors. because, as far as i know him, he used to promote the keto diet a lot and he claimed it was beneficial for him, only ending up with this depressing thread and then finding out he hasnt logged in for days....

 

I haven't read any of the OP's other posts, and he doesn't mention anything about becoming depressed while going on a keto-diet in his opening post, so that was not a concern I was aware of.

 

And didn't I actually write in reply to YOU, and not the OP? : O

 

Anyways, there is some alarming issues here... because Ketogenic diet increases production of Kynurenic Acid fairly dramatically - now, if you're aware, this diet has proven some benefits for ADHD - the reason being that there is proof, that similarly to Autists, ADHD-ers have some kind of fault within their tryptophan-metabolism, causing LESS KYNA to be produced, than among neurotypicals - this causes hyperfunction in the NMDA-network, since KYNA is the brains own endogenic NMDA-antagonist - they even believe it could play a key-role in the hallucinations which Schizophrenics suffer from - because in contrast to ADHD-ers... Schiz's have been noted to instead have HYPER-production of KYNA!

And NMDA-antagonists cause hallucinations, but selective ons like Memantine, also treat ADHD-symptoms.

 

That makes my last post troublesome... because yes, although there is proof that some Suicidal patients have NMDA-hyperfunction, similar to some other patients, like ADHD-ers, Borderliners, Autists, et c, et f*cking cetera - and how there is actually some NMDA-antagonists, such as a KYNA-prodrug in development for depression...

 

...NMDA-antagonism could then spell DOOM for the OP - Ketogeniclongevity! : (

 

Because if he actually got DEPRESSED from NMDA-antagonism...! Then he could very well suffer from some kind of inborn DP/DR-condition, or some kind of MILD SCHIZOPHRENIA - something like SIMPLE Schizophrenia - this would explain a lot about the op...

 

...That, or he's not eating right, I guess.
 

 

@KETOGENICLONGEVITY:

 

Have you ever considered if you have Depersonalisation/Derealisation or ANYthing Schizophrenic in you? Schiz' is a much broader disease than most people think - give it some consideration.

 

If so... Then I'd suggest either Lamotrigine, if you're DP/DR, or BREXpiprazole if you're Schizophrenic.

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 20 August 2017 - 12:43 PM.

[Gordo]

If you are still on a low carb diet, get off it. Make sure you are getting all nutrients, especially vitamin D and some sun exposure daily. Verify you don't have any infections (Lymes for example) that could cause your symptoms. Then try the psych meds only as last resort.

[hydrus]

Because if he actually got DEPRESSED from NMDA-antagonism...! Then he could very well suffer from some kind of inborn DP/DR-condition, or some kind of MILD SCHIZOPHRENIA - something like SIMPLE Schizophrenia - this would explain a lot about the op...

 

Not sure what to think about simple Schizophrenia. Last case study I read about it ended that the patient was put on antipsychotics with only modest improvement and was re-trained to to a simple manual labour job since any real improvement was not to be expected during his lifetime.

 

Prognosis is poor. It is also a questionable diagnosis since it is defined as schizophrenia without psychosis or any delusions that is a psychosis without symptoms of psychosis.

 

Basically it is Schizophrenia with only negative symptoms but Antipsychotics mostly work on positive symptoms I believe. How do you want to treat it then?

 

I think this diagnosis is mostly given in Europe not in the US.

 

I think a diagnosis should empower the patient. Unless there is really no other explanation for the symptoms I would avoid any diagnosis of that type. Long term intake of antipsychotics is also not healthy for the brain and can cause permanent brain damage.

 

Does not sound lke  a road to health and wellness IMO.

 

Edited by jamme, 22 August 2017 - 07:17 AM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

Because if he actually got DEPRESSED from NMDA-antagonism...! Then he could very well suffer from some kind of inborn DP/DR-condition, or some kind of MILD SCHIZOPHRENIA - something like SIMPLE Schizophrenia - this would explain a lot about the op...

 

Not sure what to think about simple Schizophrenia. Last case study I read about it ended that the patient was put on antipsychotics with only modest improvement and was re-trained to to a simple manual labour job since any real improvement was not to be expected during his lifetime.

 

Prognosis is poor. It is also a questionable diagnosis since it is defined as schizophrenia without psychosis or any delusions that is a psychosis without symptoms of psychosis.

 

Basically it is Schizophrenia with only negative symptoms but Antipsychotics mostly work on positive symptoms I believe. How do you want to treat it then?

 

I think this diagnosis is mostly given in Europe not in the US.

 

I think a diagnosis should empower the patient. Unless there is really no other explanation for the symptoms I would avoid any diagnosis of that type. Long term intake of antipsychotics is also not healthy for the brain and can cause permanent brain damage.

 

Does not sound lke  a road to health and wellness IMO.

 

 

Well, what would you suggest he does then? Other than quitting a ketogenic diet and then keep away from NMDA-antagonists - and still, he hasn't said ANYthing yet, on if he actually believes his diet causes his depression, but, if he actually does, then that could be an immediate relief, I'll give you that.
 

 

I personally am of the opinion that ANY diagnosis is useful for a patient - because it gives the possibility of personal discovery and insight into ones life and what ones existence truly is. FOR instance... Everything you said about Simple Schiz can also be said about Autism - prognosis is poor and there are no specific drugs which help the core problems of the disease.

 

Yet, there are many whom cherish their diagnosis of Autism, since it finally puts their life into perspective, and it allows SOCIETY and their FAMILY and FRIENDS to understand them better, and how to interact with their diseased love-one.

 

I myself have a diagnosis which is tricky to treat... But I don't regret even for a SECOND that I got it! With it, I can understand myself, I can see where my weaknesses are, I can get various forms of help, to improve my life. Even small improvements are improvements.

 

And now... with all that said, here are the agents which I would try, to treat Simple Schizophrenia:

 

 

Aripiprazole

BREXpiprazole

(the two above are interesting, as they have very distinct and different properties than traditional 2nd gen antipsyches - they are more SDAM's, 3rd gen antipsyches)

 

Ondansetron (or some other 5ht3-antagonist)

 

Ondansetron in perticular is interesting, since it's been fairly recently discovered that 5ht3-antagonists are immensely selective CHOLINERGIC Psychosis -stoppers - i.e they work antipsychotically, but only on the sort of psychosis which Parkinsons-patients get - on Schizo's the results are different... it actually primarily appears to treat the NEGATIVE symptoms! : D It's currently in trials for such, and the off-label prescribing has already begun, as a way of treating extra-pyramidal side-effects from antipsyhotics, and for the improvement of negative symptoms.

 

 

There are some other agents as well, which could prove useful, especially since a Simple Schizo is less likely to go psychotic:

 

Reboxetine (has showed some effect on negative symptoms)

Modafinil (see above)

 

Since the negative symptoms of Schiz are in some ways similar to some of the symptoms of attention-disorders or wakefulness-disorders, or arousal-disorders, then it's logical that some form of stimulating compound could relieves some of the symptoms.

 

And in closing... the ultimate drug... highly experimental and potentially dangerous, but also perfection itself... DIHEXA!

The more recent genetic, metabolic and neuro-imaging data suggests that the core mechanism behind Schizophrenia is overly aggressive synaptic pruning - so aggressive that it ultimately causes white-matter loss and a form of dementia.

Dihexa causes a million-fold stronger synaptic growth - hit the right dosage... maybe, just maybe... you'll treat the very core mechanism of the disease. One Bullet. One kill.

 

Simple Schizophrenia is mostly a disease of lowered cognition - almost everyone which takes Dihexa reports enhancement of cognition.

 

Give it some thought friend... and then reconsider the idea that there can be no treatment for this patients symptoms in his lifetime.

[hydrus]

Well, what would you suggest he does then?

 
I didn't say that he should not do anything. I said that in my opinion the concept of simple schizophrenia is not helpful in practice at least if you want to get well again.
 
I don't know his situation and thus can't give any advice.
 

I personally am of the opinion that ANY diagnosis is useful for a patient - because it gives the possibility of personal discovery and insight into ones life and what ones existence truly is. FOR instance... Everything you said about Simple Schiz can also be said about Autism - prognosis is poor and there are no specific drugs which help the core problems of the disease.

 
Well in theory yes if it opens up new options and perspectives, I agree. What I meant is that under the current medical system that we have simple schizophrenia is not too useful if you want to get help from doctors.
 
If you are open minded and don't get stuck with the label and use it to explore potential treatments then it could help you maybe.
 
The problem is that there is unlike in Autism there is nothing positive about the disease and it does not tell you anything about you other than that your brain function is deteriorating progressively.
 
That is why I would start with the more helpful labels first and only consider other things when you are not improving.
 

Yet, there are many whom cherish their diagnosis of Autism, since it finally puts their life into perspective, and it allows SOCIETY and their FAMILY and FRIENDS to understand them better, and how to interact with their diseased love-one.

 
Yes I agree but in my opinion schizophrenia is a label with a lot of stigma so it could harm your social life instead of improving it. Simple Schizophrenia does not put your life into perspective it takes away most options and perspectives from you if you were to take it seriously and closely follow current medical guidelines. It is a trash can diagnosis.
 
If you just like to experiment with brain function and drugs it is new option for trying different medications and nootropics perhaps it can help you with coming up with new ideas. That would be fine.
 

Give it some thought friend... and then reconsider the idea that there can be no treatment for this patients symptoms in his lifetime.

 

 

I don't think there will be no treatment during the patient's lifetime. I meant that doctors will assume there will be no good treatment and prognosis will be poor and if the patient believed that it would be a self fulfilling prophecy.

Edited by jamme, 22 August 2017 - 04:00 PM.

[chris85]

I meditated my way out of depression into a nice place, it isn't as easy as taking a pill, but you get to the root of the problem.

[HaplogroupW]

Another possibility that's easy to check: hypothyroid

[Jiminy Glick]

Some examples of stuff I would look into is: 

 

White Kratom from Life Force Kratom

Magnesium Glycinate powder from Bulk Supplements

Tryptophan powder from Bulk Supplements

Phenylalanine Powder from Bulk Supplements

Creatine powder from Bulk Supplements

Multivitamin from NOW because it doesn't have magnesium stearate

Omega Fatty Acids

Edited by Jiminy Glick, 10 October 2017 - 02:13 AM.

[normalizing]

whats the reasoning behind white kratom comparison to any other kratom?

[Mind_Paralysis]

Some examples of stuff I would look into is: 

 

White Kratom from Life Force Kratom

Magnesium Glycinate powder from Bulk Supplements

Tryptophan powder from Bulk Supplements

Phenylalanine Powder from Bulk Supplements

Creatine powder from Bulk Supplements

Multivitamin from NOW because it doesn't have magnesium stearate

Omega Fatty Acids

 

What's the reasoning AT ALL behind Kratom? Kratom is an opioid with dangerous side-effects and addiction - it hasn't, to my knowledge, been tested or proven to be a viable treatment of depression and suicidal ideation.

 

There's also some evidence that it, similar to Saint John's Wort, messes with the body's CYP450 enzymes, which makes it rather dangerous and unpredictable when combined with other substances.

 

The science is hella' thin on this suggestion, mate!

[Jiminy Glick]

 

Some examples of stuff I would look into is: 

 

White Kratom from Life Force Kratom

Magnesium Glycinate powder from Bulk Supplements

Tryptophan powder from Bulk Supplements

Phenylalanine Powder from Bulk Supplements

Creatine powder from Bulk Supplements

Multivitamin from NOW because it doesn't have magnesium stearate

Omega Fatty Acids

 

What's the reasoning AT ALL behind Kratom? Kratom is an opioid with dangerous side-effects and addiction - it hasn't, to my knowledge, been tested or proven to be a viable treatment of depression and suicidal ideation.

 

There's also some evidence that it, similar to Saint John's Wort, messes with the body's CYP450 enzymes, which makes it rather dangerous and unpredictable when combined with other substances.

 

The science is hella' thin on this suggestion, mate!

 

 

You haven't tried it have you? It is a major mood enhancer, energetic (if you use a white or green), and euphoric. It is also not seriously addictive. I've stopped many times. It is in the same plant family as coffee though. Coffee is extremely addictive. Addiction is involved in many areas of life though. Entertainment is addictive and so is sex.

Edited by Jiminy Glick, 10 October 2017 - 11:48 AM.

[Jiminy Glick]

whats the reasoning behind white kratom comparison to any other kratom?

 

There is red, white, green, and yellow.

Red is euphoric, relaxing, and will make you sleepy. 

White is really euphoric in my opinion and will give you energy then make you sleepy. 

Green is euphoric as well and is very energetic. But sometimes I feel it makes you too energetic and I think it is less euphoric and I feel like it does not give the same mood enhancement of white strains. 

Yellow is a rare strain from most businesses and is the strain I do not know much about. 

Edited by Jiminy Glick, 10 October 2017 - 11:52 AM.

[Gordo]

The science is hella' thin on this suggestion, mate!

 

 

 

You haven't tried it have you? It is a major mood enhancer, energetic (if you use a white or green), and euphoric. It is also not seriously addictive. I've stopped many times. It is in the same plant family as coffee though. Coffee is extremely addictive. Addiction is involved in many areas of life though. Entertainment is addictive and so is sex.

 

 

 

 

Adverse Effects of Kratom

A person using this drug may not expect or want the following undesirable effects of kratom:

1. Edginess, nervousness
2. Vomiting (can be severe and prolonged)
3. Nausea (can be severe and prolonged)
4. Sweating
5. Itching
6. Constipation
7. Delusions
8. Lethargy
9. Respiratory depression
10. Tremors
11. Aggressive or combative behavior
12. Psychotic episodes
13. Hallucinations
14. Paranoia

Since the drug is also addictive, one of the effects can include compulsive use of the drug despite the harm that is being done to one’s mental state or life.

Addiction effects may include:

1. Loss of sexual desire
2. Loss of weight
3. Darkening of skin on face
4. Constant cravings that drive one to use more of the drug

Withdrawal effects of kratom are very similar to those of opiates like heroin or prescription painkillers.

They include:

1. Diarrhea
2. Muscle pain
3. Muscle tremors and jerking
4. Restlessness and sleeplessness
5. Severe depression
6. Crying
7. Episodes of panic
8. Sudden swings of mood
9. Irritability

[Jiminy Glick]

 

The science is hella' thin on this suggestion, mate!

 

 

 

You haven't tried it have you? It is a major mood enhancer, energetic (if you use a white or green), and euphoric. It is also not seriously addictive. I've stopped many times. It is in the same plant family as coffee though. Coffee is extremely addictive. Addiction is involved in many areas of life though. Entertainment is addictive and so is sex.

 

 

 

 

Adverse Effects of Kratom

A person using this drug may not expect or want the following undesirable effects of kratom:

1. Edginess, nervousness
2. Vomiting (can be severe and prolonged)
3. Nausea (can be severe and prolonged)
4. Sweating
5. Itching
6. Constipation
7. Delusions
8. Lethargy
9. Respiratory depression
10. Tremors
11. Aggressive or combative behavior
12. Psychotic episodes
13. Hallucinations
14. Paranoia

Since the drug is also addictive, one of the effects can include compulsive use of the drug despite the harm that is being done to one’s mental state or life.

Addiction effects may include:

1. Loss of sexual desire
2. Loss of weight
3. Darkening of skin on face
4. Constant cravings that drive one to use more of the drug

Withdrawal effects of kratom are very similar to those of opiates like heroin or prescription painkillers.

They include:

1. Diarrhea
2. Muscle pain
3. Muscle tremors and jerking
4. Restlessness and sleeplessness
5. Severe depression
6. Crying
7. Episodes of panic
8. Sudden swings of mood
9. Irritability

 

 

Sorry but ask any daily Kratom user and they will say they don't have those symptoms. Again, I would ask you as well if you have ever tried it? Though I think it does cause respiratory depression, I think that is a trait of opiates. Perhaps these are evident for people taking very large doses daily like 35-40 grams daily, I do about 4-6.

 

Edited by Jiminy Glick, 10 October 2017 - 02:41 PM.

[chris85]

Sorry I do not think kratom is a good idea for depression, maybe chronic pain, even then there are many other herbs I would first consider.

 

St. John's wort works best in a tincture made from fresh flowers, it has a deep red colour to it, like blood.

[Mind_Paralysis]

 
I didn't say that he should not do anything. I said that in my opinion the concept of simple schizophrenia is not helpful in practice at least if you want to get well again.
 
I don't know his situation and thus can't give any advice.
 

 
Well in theory yes if it opens up new options and perspectives, I agree. What I meant is that under the current medical system that we have simple schizophrenia is not too useful if you want to get help from doctors.
 
If you are open minded and don't get stuck with the label and use it to explore potential treatments then it could help you maybe.
 
The problem is that there is unlike in Autism there is nothing positive about the disease and it does not tell you anything about you other than that your brain function is deteriorating progressively.
 
That is why I would start with the more helpful labels first and only consider other things when you are not improving.
 

 
Yes I agree but in my opinion schizophrenia is a label with a lot of stigma so it could harm your social life instead of improving it. Simple Schizophrenia does not put your life into perspective it takes away most options and perspectives from you if you were to take it seriously and closely follow current medical guidelines. It is a trash can diagnosis.
 
If you just like to experiment with brain function and drugs it is new option for trying different medications and nootropics perhaps it can help you with coming up with new ideas. That would be fine.
 

 

I don't think there will be no treatment during the patient's lifetime. I meant that doctors will assume there will be no good treatment and prognosis will be poor and if the patient believed that it would be a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

I must concede, that this was a very well-written response, and you make some very good counter-points to my own.

 

Cudos!