52 replies to this topic

[ceridwen]

I'd be interested

[OP2040]

YOLF, did you find anything new with this?  It seems like a lot of interest has been generated.

[YOLF]

I've counted 10 so far. Generally, it takes 20 or so buyers to get these things off the ground. I'm surprised we don't have 40. I'm a little strapped for time right now with spring cleaning, but you find people who could benefit from this who have posted here recently and invite them to the topic using the invite button to the left of the cluster of buttons at the top right of the topic and see if we get more interest.

[OP2040]

I have no doubt we will get enough people for the PEP-1192.  This is the only one you didn't get a quote for.  Can you ask for a quote for a 20 people group buy just to get an idea of how expensive it will be?  The quote itself would probably generate more interest.  After all, we are talking about the most promising anti-aging intervention as far as I know.  I'm seeing almost $100/50 micrograms, so I hope that price comes down a lot with bulk.

[YOLF]

Well, I'm presently unemployed, but if you guys are willing to foot the bill for me to buy it at quantity and wait to get paid back, I can definitely get you a quote.

 

Are you guys interested in that? How much can each of you afford to put forward?

[cassioBJJ]

I am very interested in getting PEP-1192.

[orion22]

how much PEP-1192 you need to get results

[OP2040]

how much PEP-1192 you need to get results

 

This is a great question and not easy to answer, because there are hundreds of studies out there documenting the positive effects of Klotho.  I do know that if I had a choice I'd keep buying it and cycle on and off it for life, because it really is a factor you want in your system for a lifetime.  However, I also know that some studies have shown a single dose to reverse various ailments, meaning that a single dose is also worth the effort to try out.  I suspect that what we want is to get whatever is reasonable for us to afford and try that.  Not sure what the individual dose should be but it wouldn't matter for me right now, since I plan to buy as much as I can afford and will keep, and I can look up the best dosing schedule in the meantime.

 

Having said that, I'd be willing to spend $500 this round or $1000 in a few months.  I would like to make sure we get certs from the company.  Obviously, if it's $500 for a milligram or something insane like that then I'm out until the price comes down.

 

Yolf, this may be bad timing, but I am not hearing back from meatsauce for a couple days while inquiring about my 2nd round purchase of FOX04-dri.   I'm pretty sure he's a trustworthy guy, at least by the accounts of a lot of people here.  But I realize now that even if it does play out perfectly, I took a big risk in trusting a stranger.  Frankly, I'm surprised so many people are willing to do these group buys for that reason.  So it's very important to me to establish trust.  I have no idea how to do that, and don't take it personally, but I'm not a rich man, and I can't afford to get scammed.  I'm sure everyone else would agree.

[YOLF]

Klotho levels rise with D3, if you want to get an idea of what klotho will do for you, you can take lots of it with some tocotrienols (to preserve it similar to taking a mild aromatase inhibitor such as resveratrol, DIM, or I3C to preserve testosterone). Then get an idea of what the D3 feeling would feel like without all the extra serotonin. I'm personally not a fan of of high dose D3, it makes me lazy. It also stands to reason that klotho will have much more pronounced effects or that D3 supplementation won't be able produce the same klotho levels as are possible. I'm also not aware of anyone demonstrating kidney regeneration with D3.

 

As for trust, I did help reship for another group buy which I was not involved in financially and everyone got what they ordered in the most efficient way possible.

 

Other than that, I've had a position with LongeCity and I'll admit that I'm putting this off to buy time until I have a job so I don't have to risk my reputation and I'm close to maxed out for TY points b/c I just gave some to someone who I thought deserved it so I could max mine out again.

[OP2040]

Because of the multiple complex pathways, I wouldn't bother trying to raise Klotho with something other than Klotho, mainly because it almost certainly won't work and we have no way of validating if it did work.

 

I understand your situation, but certainly we can get a tiered quote just to get an idea of the price breaks at varying levels of what we may buy.  That would make it easier to determine if we can get past the cost issue and move forward.  That's the way it works, no one is going to commit  to buying something when they don't know the price.  At this point, all we can get is interested people who may never commit.

[YOLF]

Right now, I just don't have the time to give it my full attention. I'm busy expanding my coding skills and getting a host of job related things in order... not to mention doing a job search. I've already applied to some silly companies by accident... I'm sure that looks awesome for my reputation. I'll have to revisit this at a later time. Feel free to keep giving people links to it, but we might be buying klotho from our favorite e-tailers soon. That guy has been saying he'd bring it to market for over a year now. 

 

 

Edited by YOLF, 09 May 2018 - 10:47 PM.

[OP2040]

Yold,

 

I totally get it, especially the part about these things getting increasingly complicated and expensive over time.  I try to keep it somewhat simple by using the concept of "best in class" for whatever aging target.  It keeps me limited to less than 10 supplements.  For example, I am thinking of replacing PQQ for MitoQ for mitochondrial aging.   For me Klotho is "best in class" for several classes of aging.

 

Anyway, I hope you don't mind if I start a new group buy thread at some point in the near future, specifically for Klotho or Pep-1192.  I'm not convinced I will get any further with it because group buys are logistically complicated, but I have to try.

[YOLF]

AFAIAA, MitoQ is just a particular dosage of PQQ, is that not correct? I can attest to the efficacy of the higher dosage, and yes, two 10mg tablets will cost you less than one 20mg tablet iirc.

 

Shipping is the easy part, most participants from the group buys that I've watched will be in the US where I am. So there will only be a couple of people that I need to find special shipping options for.

 

Cheers to our new klotho supplement when it comes!

[OP2040]

Thanks Yolf.  I appreciate your valuable contributions here.

 

My understanding is that MitoQ is a step up from PQQ based on the fact that it can  penetrate the mitochonria and work from the inside, whereas CoQ10 and PQQ cannot.  I think that Russian one SKQ (sp?) can also get inside the mitochondria.  Just going on memory here, so I could certainly be wrong about that.

[orion22]

did any human tried this? 

[YOLF]

did any human tried this? 

If you're talking about the klotho, human studies have demonstrated the following:

heterozygous klotho (of the good allele... forget which it was) carriers were healthier and had 6% higher cognitive performance

homozygous carriers were rare, extraordinarily long lived (though rodent studies suggest that cortical thickness from this much klotho might lead to diminished cognitive capacities

Preservation of klotho in some human populations has regenerated kidney function and decreased arterial plaques.

Rodent studies have demonstrated longer lifespans, but no such test have been done with humans. In all likelihood it is probably that this is in fact the case, but that non klotho carriers have more access to things like statins. It may also be the case that statins lead to CoQ10 deficiency and lead to the higher cognitive capacities of individuals with the klotho gene. The moral of the studies is that it's better to have more klotho and less all disease across almost the entire spectrum than to not have it and suffer from diseases and medication side effects.

[OP2040]

The bottom line is this:

1. Even with all the new and exciting stuff coming out, Klotho still holds the longevity and healthspan records for mice, at least if your

    going by well established and reproduced research.

2. In humans, it has body-wide benefits as shown by the genetic studies.

3. In humans, I have not seen any downsides reported, and it should have an excellent safety profile.

4. To benefit, we don't have to have the usual endless, reductionist discussion about whether it works.  Here is a teaser on that front showing that simple injection is enough, and there are others showing that even the central fragment of klotho will have mostly the same positive effects.

 

https://www.ucsf.edu...entia-and-aging

 

Having said that, as usual we will probably be some of the first humans to supplement with it, given how slow the medical field evolves.  The fact that there are no human clinical trials of Klotho is a testament to the backwardness of our medical industry.  I will start a new group buy thread in the future, but it may be a couple weeks out, so stay tuned.

[cassioBJJ]

The bottom line is this:

1. Even with all the new and exciting stuff coming out, Klotho still holds the longevity and healthspan records for mice, at least if your

    going by well established and reproduced research.

2. In humans, it has body-wide benefits as shown by the genetic studies.

3. In humans, I have not seen any downsides reported, and it should have an excellent safety profile.

4. To benefit, we don't have to have the usual endless, reductionist discussion about whether it works.  Here is a teaser on that front showing that simple injection is enough, and there are others showing that even the central fragment of klotho will have mostly the same positive effects.

 

https://www.ucsf.edu...entia-and-aging

 

Having said that, as usual we will probably be some of the first humans to supplement with it, given how slow the medical field evolves.  The fact that there are no human clinical trials of Klotho is a testament to the backwardness of our medical industry.  I will start a new group buy thread in the future, but it may be a couple weeks out, so stay tuned.

 

Great. I am looking forward to have access to this stuff. Let us know when you start a new buy group
 

[OP2040]

I would like to base this group buy on the Trehalose group buy I'm currently involved in.  Basically, although it's a group buy, everyone is getting deliveries directly from the manufacturer, and the payment may be somewhat different as well.  This is important to me because frankly, none of us is in a position to really trust anyone else here.  So that is what I'm waiting on.  If that goes well, I will use it as a model to organize this buy.

 

In the meantime we do have several issues to figure out before we set this in stone:

 

1. Pep-1192 or Klotho - Klotho is more expensive, so I see why Yolf went with Pep1192.  Are there any good reasons we should go with Klotho instead?  One

    manufacturer says simply this about Pep-1192: "This peptide corresponds to 16 amino acid peptide near the center of human KLOTHO."  That explains why it

    is less expensive.  According to the studies it should work approximately as well as Klotho itself, but we should discuss it enough that we can be confident

    we're making the right choice.

2. Delivery - I was assuming we would have to suck it up and do venous injection.  But I assume we all hate that, and would avoid it if there were any other way. 

    So the question would be whether something like SubQ injection would be as effective or not.

3. Dosage and Schedule - How much and for how long should it be administered.  It can be argued both ways.  Clearly, shorter interventions do have benefits. 

    But at the same time, those with good Klotho genes or gene therapy are presumably getting a higher dose throughout their lives.  If it can reverse something

    like ateriosclerosis, for example, will the problem just return when the dosing stops.  In many ways, this first group buy will need to be a trial in order to test this,

    but would like to hear everyone's opinions on it.

4. Side effects - We really should search out any possible side effects and ways to mitigate them before the buy.  I have read a lot of Klotho studies and not seen

    any side effects, but many of the studies are in no way comparable to what we are doing.  Also, is there anything like a rebound or tolerance effect.

5.  In what ways can we verify that this is a safe and effective intervention - Is it possible/affordable to get our serum Klotho levels checked?  I have, but does

     anyone else have access to their Klotho genetic variants?  Does anyone have a specific disease state or problem they are hoping to track.  One obvious

     candidate for this intervention is your kidney numbers like egfr.  These tend to be out of whack in a lot of people, and it should definitely be one of the things

     Klotho should make better if it is working.

 

Lets do this!!

[YOLF]

Personally, here's where I want this to go or where I think I'd take it -

This stuff is always going to be somewhat expensive compared to other supplements... it's never going to cost as little as the smaller, simpler peptides that we are more familiar with and which are generally 2-3 amino acids. PEP-1192 is 16 AAs and requires more complex lab procedures to manufacture. Not all labs can handle that level of complexity (further determined by the number of different aminos their equipment is able to combine). So, that means we might want to commission the development of a plasmid which can easily be inserted into a harmless edible bacteria (something in food that dies in our intestines) that can be dried, formulated for improved bioavailability, and encapsulated for release into the appropriate part of the gut. The equipment for this isn't much different than what is necessary to make beer or wine at home. There were some projects that were developing an automated system to do this some time ago. The yields were small, sufficient to produce one day's worth of molecule per day and the cost was ridiculous and didn't pay for itself. So you'd lose the efficiency of encapsulating 100 days worth or more at a time and could very easily let your hand slip and lose a dose... I'm sure improvements have been made all around, or we could automate with beer brewing equipment and a system for drying that could make a few 100g of klotho containing stuff at a time. Optimizing the feeding materials can produce highly pure substances such as was done with Penicillin. The rest would be incidental nutrition.

[orion22]

do you have a price range for pep and  a dosage per month im intrested to but can only buy of 200$ at this moment and when will it happen(weaks,mounths)?

[OP2040]

Hi Orion22,

 

A couple things have changed my opinion on what the course of events for this buy should be, unfortunately both involve delays.

 

The first is that this is my first buy, and I'm waiting for another buy that I want to model it on to finish.  But also, I've become a bit worried about working with people on this forum until my FOX04-dri buy goes through.  If and when these things happen, I will will confidently move forward.

 

The second, and more positive thing, is that I found an effective but cheaper target for increasing serum Klotho levels.  As you know the biggest problem with this will be it's costliness.  Anyway, the new potential target I describe in the following thread:

 

https://www.longecit...th/#entry848767

 

Ignore the thread title, the target is based on my most recent post there, and it is a compound that we would still have to purchase from a lab.

 

[OP2040]

Klotho group buy thread started here:

https://www.longecit...oup-buy-thread/