19 replies to this topic

[jroseland]

Based upon a number of conversations I've had with Biohackers, self quantification types and anti-aging people I think that Biohackers generally are right wing politically or ideologically.

 

Without getting into a debate of politics or issues I want to just collect some data on this.

 

If you are an active, experienced Biohacker please just respond to this survey with your political inclination or the way you typically vote. Everyone who is politically active or conscious leans either to the left or right. If you don't know what that means don't respond 

[ceridwen]

Liberal

[YOLF]

Looks like we're all lefties...  I think it has alot to do with realizing that there are limits to where capitalist healthcare can take us. We all start at our doctors and ask for things they just can't do and never expect to be able to do and then find out it just takes information to do it yourself. DIY rejuvenation/medicine is better at just about everything except infectious diseases.

 

I suspect most of the people selling this stuff are right wingers. Those with liberal sales strategies have largely gone out of business, though they did offer some great supplements at great prices.

[Heisok]

Please define what you mean by right and left?

 

I am just saying, that perhaps bio hacking might have more to do with socioeconomic and education factors than political if that is what you are implying. Keep in mind that this is also a site that attracts international members. Right and left could mean different things.

 

"of, relating to, or involving a combination of social and economic factors "

Edited by Heisok, 04 October 2017 - 10:26 PM.

[YOLF]

Please define what you mean by right and left?

 

I am just saying, that perhaps bio hacking might have more to do with socioeconomic and education factors than political if that is what you are implying. Keep in mind that this is also a site that attracts international members. Right and left could mean different things.

 

"of, relating to, or involving a combination of social and economic factors "

Well, I'm not really a political expert, but this is how it matters to me:

 

Left:

Governments exist to serve and provide for common needs, regulate for the common good, and to simplify the more difficult aspects of daily life. To that end, healthcare and related services need to be made efficient and free to tax payers. Industries need to be regulated and controlled to limit profiteering by the wise at the expense of the ignorant. 

 

Right:

Governments exist to provide economic infrastructure and security, but otherwise leaves people to their own devices. Work, wealth, spirituality and religion are major determinants of a person's well being. Though I'll add that most conservatives who have plenty of money are still at the mercy of other capitalists, money only buys what people want to sell you, and that most often involves selling you something that leads to another sale.

 

I'm of the opinion that capitalism is slowing down scientific progress for sustainable youth and indefinite lifespans. By allowing top down sales to 'milk' every increment of progress, progress is delayed by as many iterations as can be 'milked.' 

 

Aging should be illegal and the aim of our mission should be to achieve permanent youth and health.

[Droplet]

I have not yet experimented with biohacking but I am likely to do in the very near future. I have however got a big interest in curing ageing and rejuvenation. I would describe myself as left leaning but I'm not hard left.

[Heisok]

Thanks Yolf, I appreciate what you have written, and your rationale.

 

jroseland, please define what you mean by your 4 choices? Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you monetize your writings, videos through Youtube and links through to products. Any money made in that way, or other ways from sharing your opinions, knowledge and expertise? Under Yolf's definition which side of the Right or Left might that put you?

 

Perhaps the only way to answer would be an attempt to describe ourselves, and give our reasons for categorizing on both the right or left like Yolf did.

 

I want to clarify what I mean by education. It is not limited to formal education, but includes all methods, such as educating ourselves through sites such as Longecity and experience based learning as our own test subjects.

 

By my general feeling, I would think of Turnbuckle and lostfalco as 2 very active biohackers, and I am grateful for what they do. I wonder how they would answer your question.
 

Edited by Heisok, 05 October 2017 - 08:20 PM.

[jroseland]

I limited it to 4 options for the sake of simplicity. Everyone politically conscious is either on the right or left of the spectrum.

 

Yeah, I have written +400 articles about Biohacking on my website and produced several hundred educational videos and finally after 5 years of slaving away working on Limitless Mindset it finally covers my cost of living. So I'm NOT the greatest Internet entrepreneur...

 

By Yolf's definition I'm on the right, although I have something of anarchist streak, I really hate the government. It's the one thing in this world that I actually hate. If there were some way to get rid of it I would be all for that! We would defeat involuntary death so much faster if it wasn't for the big government making idiotic rules and protecting the disease care cartels.

 

I've spent enough time around Europeans living in Europe to know that the universal healthcare ran by the government is actually quiet counter intuitive to public health. The American health system maybe pretty dysfunctional but the NHS by comparison is a cancerous scourge that will inevitable be the death of a nation. 

 

Thanks!

jroseland, please define what you mean by your 4 choices? Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you monetize your writings, videos through Youtube and links through to products. Any money made in that way, or other ways from sharing your opinions, knowledge and expertise? Under Yolf's definition which side of the Right or Left might that put you?

 

Edited by jroseland, 14 October 2017 - 01:01 PM.

[Heisok]

jroseland,

 

thanks for the reply. I am very glad that all your work has paid off. It enables you to keep providing valuable information to others. Biohacking is hard to define, but a few comments below, scratch the surface. (C, Does not apply to you, but it is a problem in our world generally, and not limited to Biohacking. Without a doubt in my mind, a consummate Biohacker posts as lostfalco on Longecity.

Thanks for the warning about the value of universal health care.

 

Biohacking?:

 

A: "Biohacking is the process of making changes to your lifestyle in order to “hack” your body’s biology and feel your best."

 

B: "As humans, we are complex systems. What goes into us affects what comes out of us, and I’m not just talking about our poop. Our behaviors, our health, and our performance in all areas of life are outputs.

If we want better outputs—to have more energy and focus, to be free of disease, to have a better memory, to perform optimally in business and athletics—then let’s tweak the things we put into our body and mind to stack the deck in our favor."

 

C: "In practice what this seems to mean it doing cheap bad research to justify more health fad pseudoscience. There may be some serious researchers in there, but then they are just doing biological research. I could not find anything unique or original to the concept of biohacking. In the end it is just clever marketing."

 

I think it is all of the above at times, and many other things. It can be dangerous. Caveat Emptor applies, but not just to the monetary aspects. Some damage can be done.I can not label myself one way or another using Yolf's definition, or probably any Right Wing ---> Left Wing spectrum.

[A941]

Leaning left, but not too far to the left.

I think Transhumanism and similar ideas are something close to the center of the political spectrum, since the further you go to the fringe the less innovation and improvement you can see. There is even suspicion and hostility to such ideas.

 

[platypus]

 

I've spent enough time around Europeans living in Europe to know that the universal healthcare ran by the government is actually quiet counter intuitive to public health. The American health system maybe pretty dysfunctional but the NHS by comparison is a cancerous scourge that will inevitable be the death of a nation. 

Sorry but that is stupid. Sounds like you have been spending so long in US that you start to believe in the local propaganda.

[jroseland]

 

 

I've spent enough time around Europeans living in Europe to know that the universal healthcare ran by the government is actually quiet counter intuitive to public health. The American health system maybe pretty dysfunctional but the NHS by comparison is a cancerous scourge that will inevitable be the death of a nation. 

Sorry but that is stupid. Sounds like you have been spending so long in US that you start to believe in the local propaganda.

 

No. Maybe you don't understand english well, what I was saying was is since I've spent +5 years living with Europeans, I've observed that in general they are not very healthy. Certainly, less healthy than people in Colorado where I'm from.

 

It's a really simple economic incentive, since healthcare is free (more or less) Europeans (foolishly) assume that they don't need to worry about their health because their government healthcare will pay for it one day.

 

I've had the same conversation hundreds of times with Europeans

Hey you know you could quit smoking? It's a lot better for you...

But I like really like smoking! I don't really believe in the science that says it's bad for you... Everything causes cancer anyways!

 

Europeans (in general) are really bad at thinking about the future. Worse than Americans.

 

Obviously, I'm making huge generalizations, there's some very disciplined, very healthy Europeans but the universal healthcare creates a very bad incentive.

 

You can find a lot of fat Americans in Wal Mart, but Europeans are definitely more deluded about health than Americans.

[pamojja]

You can find a lot of fat Americans in Wal Mart, but Europeans are definitely more deluded about health than Americans.

 

Sums it up nicely. Last year I joined a local demonstration against Monsanto (just about 10,000 participants). What really stroke home to me that even in such a large crowd one couldn't spot even 1 as fat as one sees on public places anywhere in the states - though the last time there it was only 1992. So one thing not necessarily Monsanto's fault
 

Edited by pamojja, 16 October 2017 - 10:24 AM.

[platypus]

I thought you wanted to argue that a single-payer universal healthcare-system was bad for the people, as it obviously isn't. And yes, in some cases it might create disincentives to stay healthy. 

 

You can find a lot of fat Americans in Wal Mart, but Europeans are definitely more deluded about health than Americans.

 

Sums it up nicely. Last year I joined a local demonstration against Monsanto (just about 10,000 participants). What really stroke home to me that even in such a large crowd one couldn't spot even 1 as fat as one sees on public places anywhere in the states - though the last time there it was only 1992. So one thing not necessarily Monsanto's fault

Austria is like Colorado - most people want to have an active outdoorsy life and stay fit for skiing, mountain-biking, hiking and such..

[YOLF]

 

jroseland,

 

thanks for the reply. I am very glad that all your work has paid off. It enables you to keep providing valuable information to others. Biohacking is hard to define, but a few comments below, scratch the surface. (C, Does not apply to you, but it is a problem in our world generally, and not limited to Biohacking. Without a doubt in my mind, a consummate Biohacker posts as lostfalco on Longecity.

Thanks for the warning about the value of universal health care.

 

...

C: "In practice what this seems to mean it doing cheap bad research to justify more health fad pseudoscience. There may be some serious researchers in there, but then they are just doing biological research. I could not find anything unique or original to the concept of biohacking. In the end it is just clever marketing."

 

...

I think what you're seeing here is just naive scientists with outdated leaders. They just don't know enough or can't understand enough to validate, so they don't take it as seriously and produce useful data or make the best of the data that they have.

[YOLF]

 

 

 

I've spent enough time around Europeans living in Europe to know that the universal healthcare ran by the government is actually quiet counter intuitive to public health. The American health system maybe pretty dysfunctional but the NHS by comparison is a cancerous scourge that will inevitable be the death of a nation. 

Sorry but that is stupid. Sounds like you have been spending so long in US that you start to believe in the local propaganda.

 

No. Maybe you don't understand english well, what I was saying was is since I've spent +5 years living with Europeans, I've observed that in general they are not very healthy. Certainly, less healthy than people in Colorado where I'm from.

 

It's a really simple economic incentive, since healthcare is free (more or less) Europeans (foolishly) assume that they don't need to worry about their health because their government healthcare will pay for it one day.

 

I've had the same conversation hundreds of times with Europeans

Hey you know you could quit smoking? It's a lot better for you...

But I like really like smoking! I don't really believe in the science that says it's bad for you... Everything causes cancer anyways!

 

Europeans (in general) are really bad at thinking about the future. Worse than Americans.

 

Obviously, I'm making huge generalizations, there's some very disciplined, very healthy Europeans but the universal healthcare creates a very bad incentive.

 

You can find a lot of fat Americans in Wal Mart, but Europeans are definitely more deluded about health than Americans.

 

Certainly there are people who stop taking care of their health... but that has more to do with not having as much pro-health propaganda. Countries that promote healthy lifestyles are very successful at having healthy people and low costs. Japan is a good, though extreme example. You dishonor your family if you don't take care of yourself. Thus everyone is skinny and everyone is healthy. Healthcare costs 25% as much as it does in the US. Amalgam (mercury) dental fillings are also banned in Japan. On a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is deluded, The worst Europeans might be a 1, Americans are a 2, and Japan is somewhere around 7 (but that's probably the best score).

Edited by YOLF, 16 October 2017 - 09:53 PM.

[Heisok]

"Certainly there are people who stop taking care of their health... but that has more to do with not having as much pro-health propaganda. Countries that promote healthy lifestyles are very successful at having healthy people and low costs."

 

Bingo, Yolf. Richard

 

Richard H.Thaler just won the Nobel Prize in Economics. He is credited at least in part for the "Nudge Theory" which is essentially Behavioral Economics. The theory is not just applied to traditional Economics, but he discusses how to provide incentives for directing actions related to health. Unfortunately our advertising machinery also uses "Nudges" to influence behavior such as smoking, consuming excess sugar and whatever other buying decisions. "Propaganda" manipulation can be good , neutral and bad. Go figure......

 

 

"Thaler’s “Nudge” theory, crafted with former White House adviser Cass Sunstein, suggests small incentives can prod people into making certain decisions. The work has informed politicians looking for ways to influence voters and shape societies at a time when budget deficits limited their scope to spend and the 2008 financial crisis caught many economists off guard.

Former U.S. President Barack Obama and ex-U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron both appointed teams to study if behavioral economics could be used to save their governments money and drive economies. Behavioral policy making is now spreading through the world, from Singapore to Australia.

 

“From studying human beings rather than using abstract models you get better policies, better answers for paying taxes, donating organs, getting people back to work,” said David Halpern, chief executive officer of the London-based Behavioural Insights Team, which was partly inspired by Thaler’s ideas and has worked with the academic. “We’ve still got a long way to go. There are so many policies which involve human behavior.”

[YOLF]

Personally, my mind has wandered to the conspiracy-theory-like  idea, that the government has been nudging us into our graves. Surely such people as politicians have a natural understanding of the American Capitalist landscape. Perhaps they've been negligent or distracted? Perhaps Japanese should be a political party, what they are doing works for public health.

[Danail Bulgaria]

The japanese politicians may be nugging their people to the graves too.

https://www.theguard...up-die-japanese

 

Neither these nor those

What shall we do, I don't know.

 

[YOLF]

Based on the photo caption, I think he's disgusted with the idea of winding up as a "tube person" himself. I'd feel similar it's a natural reaction... just put me in the liquid nitrogen (per alcor or better/similar standards). In Japan it's dishonoring for people to be in such a position and it very likely improves how committed people are to their own health. It's a good attitude to have imo. Japanese healthcare ranks #1 in my assessment, they have the longest lifespans and the lowest incidence of disease in the world aside from the Principalities of Monaco and Lichtenstein. I think that's why he got voted in. Did I mention that healthcare in Japan is 1/4 or less the cost of US healthcare? It's probably a little higher after you pay for your Aflac and any left over copays, but but that would still put it at less than half per my quick estimates. 

 

I like the idea of living longer for half the cost of being unhealthy! Japanese Healthcare should be an export, insurance companies, hospitals, all of it.

Edited by YOLF, 26 April 2018 - 12:24 AM.